Driving without a licence

colly10 · 22-01-2010 09:34PM #1

Hi, I was just wondering what sort of punishment this normally picks up in court, I can't find any examples on google (which don't include being drunk or without insurance). Would you be likely to loose your licence, does it result in a large fine?

Grindylow · 22-01-2010 09:40PM

How could you lose your license if you were driving without a license?

colly10 · 22-01-2010 09:42PM

Noel2k9 wrote: »

How could you lose your license if you were driving without a license?

I mean put of the road, banned from driving, the licence had expired

Grindylow · 22-01-2010 09:46PM

Yeah, then you can get banned for 7/9 years I think and a fine with it AFAIK.

colly10 · 22-01-2010 09:48PM

Noel2k9 wrote: »

Yeah, then you can get banned for 7/9 years I think and a fine with it AFAIK.

Ye wouldn't get a ban like that for driving without insurance, this is a more minor offense

Paulw · 22-01-2010 10:08PM

colly10 wrote: »

Ye wouldn't get a ban like that for driving without insurance, this is a more minor offense

More minor to you, or more minor in the eyes of the law? There is where there is a large distinction.

Hooch · 22-01-2010 10:12PM

Its a three part summons. Failure to produce there an then, fail to produce within tens days and No licence.

It depends on the area you are in. I would say approx €300 - €500 (max) and no....no ban.

colly10 · 22-01-2010 10:18PM

Paulw wrote: »

More minor to you, or more minor in the eyes of the law? There is where there is a large distinction.

More minor in the eyes of the law, I have looked at many cases (all of which the driver had no licence or insurance). It was the insurance that they got nailed hard for. No insurance is almost guaranteeing yourself a ban and a fine of 1500-2500 euro plus a possible short jail sentence depending on your record

colly10 · 22-01-2010 10:19PM

nice guy always wrote: »

Its a three part summons. Failure to produce there an then, fail to produce within tens days and No licence.

It depends on the area you are in. I would say approx €300 - €500 (max) and no....no ban.

Thanks, im up for a few more bits and pieces for not producing (although I had everything but licence) but the driving without a licence conviction is the one im really worried about

eagle_&_bear · 22-01-2010 10:37PM

colly10 wrote: »

Thanks, im up for a few more bits and pieces for not producing (although I had everything but licence) but the driving without a licence conviction is the one im really worried about

It is usual that driving without a licence will be the lead offence and the others (depending on exactly what they are) will be taken into consideration - its the usual way they are dealt with, as they are a natural consequence of the lead offence

The max fine I have seen is 750euro but, it'll really depend on other offences

jhegarty · 22-01-2010 11:13PM

Was the license just expired ? or something more wrong with it ?

colly10 · 22-01-2010 11:29PM

jhegarty wrote: »

Was the license just expired ? or something more wrong with it ?

It was just expired but had been out by a few months, I was asked to produce it and didn't then got the summons for no licence and failure to produce (along with a few other more minor summonses, I know none are minor but the licence is the worst)

sdanseo · 22-01-2010 11:33PM

colly10 wrote: »

More minor in the eyes of the law, I have looked at many cases (all of which the driver had no licence or insurance). It was the insurance that they got nailed hard for. No insurance is almost guaranteeing yourself a ban and a fine of 1500-2500 euro plus a possible short jail sentence depending on your record

Yes but by driving without any licence at all, aren't you invalidating your insurance as well?

That's as distinct from the fact that provisional/learner drivers always held a loophole because the policy never stated what kind of licence you needed to have (a provisional licence is still a licence) and the insurers guarenteed that L-Drivers would be covered. That was a while ago now, I wonder are Learner Permit holders covered if they have nobody with them?

I reckon an expired licence should be treated fairly, depending how long it's expired...a few weeks out rather than a few years won't make any difference to your driving abilities which are what's examined after all.

colly10 · 22-01-2010 11:38PM

sdonn wrote: »

Yes but by driving without any licence at all, aren't you invalidating your insurance as well?

No, I don't think so, my insurance T&C's state that you must hold a licence or have held a licence to be insured, id be covered on the have held

cdaly_ · 22-01-2010 11:45PM

colly10 wrote: »

No, I don't think so, my insurance T&C's state that you must hold a licence or have held a licence to be insured, id be covered on the have held

The usual phrasing is:

"Must hold a license or, having held a license are not barred from holding such a license"

Basically, your insurance is not invalidated by an expired license.

It was just expired but had been out by a few months,

Renew your license, bring it to the court, show it to the judge along with:

"I apologise sincerely your honour. I have since renewed my driving license and will try to ensure that I keep my documents up to date in the future."

Failing to produce will get you something of a fine anyway but be sure you have the license sorted before the court...

colly10 · 22-01-2010 11:55PM

cdaly_ wrote: »

Failing to produce will get you something of a fine anyway but be sure you have the license sorted before the court...

Thanks, any idea how long this usually takes from the time you send away. I have already made a start before the summons and sent away by post for a test (I had to to get a a test for a new licence) and i've got the confirmation of my test now.
I know it takes 10 days for your licence to get posted out, just wondering if thats 10 days or 10 working days though

jhegarty · 23-01-2010 01:06AM

colly10 wrote: »

Thanks, any idea how long this usually takes from the time you send away. I have already made a start before the summons and sent away by post for a test (I had to to get a a test for a new licence) and i've got the confirmation of my test now.
I know it takes 10 days for your licence to get posted out, just wondering if thats 10 days or 10 working days though

What test ?

slimjimmc · 23-01-2010 02:53AM

colly10 wrote: »

Thanks, any idea how long this usually takes from the time you send away. I have already made a start before the summons and sent away by post for a test (I had to to get a a test for a new licence) and i've got the confirmation of my test now.
I know it takes 10 days for your licence to get posted out, just wondering if thats 10 days or 10 working days though

By 'test' I presume you mean the driving tests (theory and practical), not a medical or eye test.

If you previously held a full licence (even if it expired or was revoked) you don't need to sit a driving test unless:
your previous licence has expired over 10yrs ago, or
you want to add a new category to your licence (e.g licence to tow a trailer), or
your previous licence was foreign and not from one of the recognised countries.

It's normal that 10 days means 10 working days so I wouldn't interpret it to mean 10 calendar days.

Jo King · 23-01-2010 05:13PM

cdaly_ wrote: »

The usual phrasing is:

Renew your license, bring it to the court, show it to the judge along with:

"I apologise sincerely your honour. I have since renewed my driving license and will try to ensure that I keep my documents up to date in the future."

Failing to produce will get you something of a fine anyway but be sure you have the license sorted before the court...

Judges are not addresses in Ireland as "Your Honour" except by people who have been watching too much television. According to the rules of all the courts, the correct mode of address of "Judge" or "A Bhretiheamh".
The big variable in all of the is the form of the DJ who hears the case. Best thing to do is see the prosecuting guard in advance of the court date and show all of the correct documentation. There is a chance he may strike out some or all of the charges. Also go to the local District Court and see what happens. Note the attitude of the judge. Note also which solicitors deal with the legal aid cases and how they interact with the judge. Some judges do not like lay litigants. If you are in real trouble one of the solicitors would handle it for you for a relatively modest fee.

colly10 · 23-01-2010 07:02PM

jhegarty wrote: »

What test ?

Just a practical driving test

jhegarty · 23-01-2010 09:20PM

colly10 wrote: »

Just a practical driving test

So it was an expired provisional/permit ?

Did you have L plates and an another driver with you ?

passtest · 27-01-2010 06:14AM

IF you driving with safty in roads . you must follow the traffic rules and get driving liecense.

Merch · 29-01-2010 03:08PM

passtest wrote: »

IF you driving with safty in roads . you must follow the traffic rules and get driving liecense.

Huh? what?

Reloc8 · 29-01-2010 03:14PM

In soviet russia roads drive YOU.

BUBBLES1978 · 06-04-2010 02:33PM

hav a friend who was caught saturday with no full licensed driver in the car with her and no nct asked to produce provisional licence within the ten days had since realised she has no licence for 2 years (whoops!!!)

what does she do now and what kinda fine / ban is she looking at

eagle_&_bear · 06-04-2010 02:51PM

BUBBLES1978 wrote: »

hav a friend who was caught saturday with no full licensed driver in the car with her and no nct asked to produce provisional licence within the ten days had since realised she has no licence for 2 years (whoops!!!)

what does she do now and what kinda fine / ban is she looking at

It really depends on the atittude of the member of An Garda Siochana as to what charge sheets they will produce:

If the Garda follows the book:

Failure to produce a licence when required

Operating a motor vehicle without having a driving licence

Driving without being accompanied by a fully qualified driver of 3 years standing

no NCT - mandatory court appearance
Depending on whether L plates are an issue may incur further points and penalties

Technically,
Driving a motor vehicle without insurance (even though you will have paid insurance, you must hold, during the period of the insurance, a valid driving licence so you are driving without a valid insurance)

Ideally, it would be better for you to deal with the matter by the fixed penalty option; However, because you have the no NCT issue, that imposes a mandatory court appearance which is a big issue as the points are significant now. As to what fine? the District Court can impose any fine. Usually they will take the most serious offence and set a fine and then take the others into consideration.

As for Penalty Points:

Penalty Points on Court Conviction Driving without a driving licence:
2 if you deal with it by fixed penalty notice
5 if you are convicted in court

Failure to produce licence
1 if you deal with it by fixed penalty notice
3 if you are convicted in court

Provisional licence holder driving without being accompanied by and under the supervision of qualified person
1 if you deal with it by fixed penalty notice
3 if you are convicted in court

No NCT displayed
Mandatory Court Appearance and 5 points

If you are in any doubt, speak to a solicitor but do look at http://www.penaltypoints.ie/ for a list of the points.

Bare in mind, the District Court will simply hear the evidence and set a monetary fine on the day. It is upto the Local Authority/Council to impose the points on your licence. you will receive a letter about this usually 4 weeks after the court. You will need to bring any documents you have with you on the day in court. By my calculations, you're looking at the potential of 16 points so you run the risk of being barred for 3 years automatically. Despite that, the court may also order a consequential disqualification order. It would not be out of character for the District Court to impose a fine in the region of 800 - 1,200 euro for this!!!

If you're not religious... find devotion somewhere. Counsel(barrister) would also be recommended. but DO speak to a solicitor. This is very serious

robbie99 · 13-04-2010 06:40PM

eagle_&_bear wrote: »

Technically,
Driving a motor vehicle without insurance (even though you will have paid insurance, you must hold, during the period of the insurance, a valid driving licence so you are driving without a valid insurance)

Are you sure? My insurance T&Cs contain the following as described by cdaly_ and my understanding is that this is the same for _all_ motor insurance in Ireland.

cdaly_ wrote:

The usual phrasing is:

"Must hold a license or, having held a license are not barred from holding such a license"

Basically, your insurance is not invalidated by an expired license.

eagle_&_bear wrote: »

By my calculations, you're looking at the potential of 16 points so you run the risk of being barred for 3 years automatically.

No, only 5 points. When a driver is convicted for numerous offenses, all from the same occasion, they only receive the points for one of the offenses, whichever carries the most points.

And if a driver was to reach the 12 point threshold, the ban is for 6 months, with the points that triggered the ban expiring when the ban finishes.

MagicSean · 13-04-2010 07:14PM

eagle_&_bear wrote: »

It really depends on the atittude of the member of An Garda Siochana as to what charge sheets they will produce:

If the Garda follows the book:
Failure to produce a licence when required
Operating a motor vehicle without having a driving licence
Driving without being accompanied by a fully qualified driver of 3 years standing
no NCT - mandatory court appearance

Depending on whether L plates are an issue may incur further points and penalties

Technically,
Driving a motor vehicle without insurance (even though you will have paid insurance, you must hold, during the period of the insurance, a valid driving licence so you are driving without a valid insurance)

Actually she is looking at more

1)Failure to produce licence
2)Failure to produce licence in 10 days
3)Failure to produce NCT in 10 days
4)Driving without valid licence
5)Driving without valid NCT cert
6)Failure to display NCT disk
7)Obtaining insurance by fraud

(Driving with no L plates or accompanying driver is not an issue as she does not have a provisional licence. She has none)

(Insurance won't be an issue as most companies insure you if you have held a licence and it has expired)

If found guilty she is looking at a sizeable fine and possibly a ban depending on her criminal history. Also five penalty points.

colly10 · 13-04-2010 07:29PM

eagle_&_bear wrote: »

Technically,
Driving a motor vehicle without insurance (even though you will have paid insurance, you must hold, during the period of the insurance, a valid driving licence so you are driving without a valid insurance)

Thats not the case, for your insurance to be valid you must have previously held a licence in the past, you do not need to have a current licence

eagle_&_bear · 13-04-2010 08:19PM

colly10 wrote: »

Thats not the case, for your insurance to be valid you must have previously held a licence in the past, you do not need to have a current licence

Are you sure on this? Is it not a condition precedent of the offence that inorder to have validated insurance you must hold a valid driving licence?

I'll go check my policy but I think the holding of a licence is a condition precedent to having effective insurance at the time the alleged offences are committed. It doesnt make sure to give cover on a car when at the time you dont have a licence, notwithstanding that you may have had a licence in the past - that doesnt make seem right.

Hooch · 14-04-2010 03:14AM

robbie99 wrote: »

No, only 5 points. When a driver is convicted for numerous offenses, all from the same occasion, they only receive the points for one of the offenses, whichever carries the most points.

And if a driver was to reach the 12 point threshold, the ban is for 6 months, with the points that triggered the ban expiring when the ban finishes.

Correct

eagle_&_bear wrote: »

Are you sure on this? Is it not a condition precedent of the offence that inorder to have validated insurance you must hold a valid driving licence?

I'll go check my policy but I think the holding of a licence is a condition precedent to having effective insurance at the time the alleged offences are committed. It doesnt make sure to give cover on a car when at the time you dont have a licence, notwithstanding that you may have had a licence in the past - that doesnt make seem right.

No. Your insurance policy will say you must hold a licence.....however legally once you held a licence at some stage that covers you and your insurance will cover and you have fullfilled your legal obligation.

If you never held a licence then you cannot be insured.

Driving without a licence

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