how many reservists/pdf play airsoft?

c-90 · 20-01-2010 8:09pm #1

just wondering as there is usually quite a few other rdf lads and some pdf out there that play airsoft every time i go. and if so has anyone else noticed that being in the df has helped your airsofting skills or visa versa?
while in the us i noticed alot of airsofters/paintballers have some connection to the army or marines they even sponcer large events its like the two go hand in hand.

iceage · 20-01-2010 9:26pm

You'll probably find that there are a few...but not many of em will admit to it I reckon!!

Firekitten · 20-01-2010 9:38pm

/me sighs.

I remember one guy in my old unit (UK forces) who was an airsofter. I hadn't told anyone at this point, it was my dirty little secret. I knew the British Army's unofficial standpoint on it, and I wasn't about to get involved or martyr myself for the cause....

This lad was super pro airsoft, and was telling everyone how it made him a better soldier and the like... and how he thought we should train with it....

Needless to say the guy had the piss mercilessly ripped out of him, and was generally a laughing stock for it.

My advice?

If you're in, dont mention it, dont use your airsoft gear in, an dont ever use your gear to airsoft.... Keep the two entirely separate, and live a long happy life.

senordingdong · 20-01-2010 10:47pm

While in Sweden, it seemed every played outside of Ireland was either ex or currently serving.

Over here....they seem to be all i.t. or video game heads.

I only played along serving pdf members once, about five of them, they seemed mad into the game, but get never settle into the hobby because they had to run off back to Chad.

And if anything, the rules of engagment engrained in their heads, made them very slow to get up and brap some *****.

Firekitten · 20-01-2010 10:50pm

You realise a lot of the Scandanavian countries have national service... Right?

As for slow... well, it keeps you alive not jumping up and getting shot in the face... airsofters have no fear of death. You shouldnt disrespect serving soldiers like that you know... The real world isnt about 'brapping ****'

Poccington · 20-01-2010 11:03pm

senordingdong wrote: »

And if anything, the rules of engagment engrained in their heads, made them very slow to get up and brap some *****.

As Firekitten already pointed out, those lads are trained to deal with real firefights... As in, the ones where there's no respawn.

So "Brapping some ****" may not be top of the agenda for them.

Witcher · 20-01-2010 11:05pm

Jesus...touchy people in here, I'm pretty sure the guy meant it as a joke:rolleyes:

Firekitten · 20-01-2010 11:06pm

Without apearing to backseat moderate, i request that one of the mods lock this before much longer.... I think its fairly evident so far why the military and airsoft do not mix...

.22 Lover · 20-01-2010 11:10pm

You cant cant just let go of years of training its with you for life no joke.

senordingdong · 20-01-2010 11:16pm

Poccington wrote: »

As Firekitten already pointed out, those lads are trained to deal with real firefights... As in, the ones where there's no respawn.

So "Brapping some ****" may not be top of the agenda for them.

And likewise, they're not going to be running around with itchy trigger fingers.

*Edit* - ofcourse I wasn't being dis-respectful.
Despite what we may think at times, this game is clearly a far cry from what real soldiers do.

Shiva · 20-01-2010 11:16pm

Folks...I didn't read that as DingDong being disrespectful at all.

He just correctly pointed out that the training they receive is ingrained, and it means they tend not to take the gung-ho approach us non-military folks would take - he just did it tongue in cheek.

Ya'll might want to relax a little - the OP asked a valid question, and asking for his thread to be locked just 'cos you read something into a comment that wasn't there is a bit cheeky, tbh.

iceage · 20-01-2010 11:28pm

senordingdong wrote: »

brap some *****.

Hi-caps!!:rolleyes:

I agree, I didn't think that dingdong was being disrespectful.

off to brap some *****:)

I'll use that as my Sig. if thats ok with you senordingdong?

senordingdong · 20-01-2010 11:29pm

Haha. truth is, you'll have to check with DOC.

partyatmygaff · 20-01-2010 11:33pm

I guess it becomes instinct if you're militarily trained. In a real battle, survival is key and getting kills is only something to do if the oppurtunity arises.

gerrowadat · 20-01-2010 11:33pm

Firekitten wrote: »

You realise a lot of the Scandanavian countries have national service... Right?

As for slow... well, it keeps you alive not jumping up and getting shot in the face... airsofters have no fear of death. You shouldnt disrespect serving soldiers like that you know... The real world isnt about 'brapping ****'

Yes, but Airsoft, in general, is about brappage.

They're two completely separate things, and at times, jumping up and moving forward a lot more aggressively than it might be like for realsies works a lot better in Airsoft, due to the range and accuracy, and thew fact that your opponents are (usually) not well-trained anyway.

Firekitten · 20-01-2010 11:36pm

gerrowadat wrote: »

Yes, but Airsoft, in general, is about brappage.

They're two completely separate things, and at times, jumping up and moving forward a lot more aggressively than it might be like for realsies works a lot better in Airsoft, due to the range and accuracy, and thew fact that your opponents are (usually) not well-trained anyway.

Isn't airsoft about completing objectives? You and Dingdog are self proclaimed milsimers arent you? Its not about the kills there either... im sorry, i dont want to call it 'brappage' because i'm not a 13yo counter strike player.

Perhaps we should be back on topic then Tony... because this is horrifically derailed as it stands.

senordingdong · 20-01-2010 11:38pm

Oh dear, here we go again...

No airsoft is not about objectives, milsim is.
Airsoft, I would say, is more about 'brappage'.

Now, can we drop this please and not ruin another thread.

Lemming · 20-01-2010 11:48pm

As has been my impression from those with military training I have either met, played airsoft with, and/or come into airsoft discussion with, there's a lot who find airsoft frustrating. Not because it's airsoft but because they're used to the real thing, the real weight, and their team-mates not acting (as they perceive it) like suicidal headless chickens.

As has also been suggested, training has been drilled into these folks for one simple reason. That they do not have to think about it in the middle of a pitched firefight where their reaction will be the difference between life and death for either themselves or their mates.

So to see a whole load of untrained, and mostly ill-disciplined civvies running around playing pretend for most is a fairly bemusing concept I should imagine.

On the matter of milsim, objectives, and "brappage" (may I point out I cringe every time I hear that word and think of stereotyped CS players ... sorry guys but I do); the beauty of airsoft is that it caters for a variety of different play styles. Somebody being slow to "brap" is neither here nor there and whilst in a speedball airsoft sunday skirmish is perhaps not the mae-west, for a milsim scenario where there are rules of engagement, scenario plots, and more than one other player type (i.e. not just your "enemy") in the gamezone, being slower to react (and register what you're aiming at) will be the difference between success and defeat for your objectives.

Alzir · 20-01-2010 11:55pm

Firekitten wrote: »

You realise a lot of the Scandanavian countries have national service... Right?

This is true but people can choose not to go and pay a small fine instead. In Russia the fine is only equivalent to around 200 euros. Almost everybody who leaves school and goes to college or gets a decent job do not enlist. I was working in Moscow recently and all the engineers I was with said this is the case throughout. Also the majority of the training for the 1 to 2 years of service is without actually firing anything.

Stercus Accidit · 21-01-2010 12:01am

Brap brap brap!

I know of a fair few pdf and rdf lads who play, if you are into the whole military scene theres no reason not to enjoy a bit of airsoft too.

I like the term brap, it sounds like the sound a brapper makes, and makes more sense than 'tagging' or 'killing' someone, as neither is entirely appropriate.

Epic teh braps etc., its just a bit of fun really

gerrowadat · 21-01-2010 12:03am

Firekitten wrote: »

Isn't airsoft about completing objectives? You and Dingdog are self proclaimed milsimers arent you? Its not about the kills there either... im sorry, i dont want to call it 'brappage' because i'm not a 13yo counter strike player.

Perhaps we should be back on topic then Tony... because this is horrifically derailed as it stands.

It's only as derailed as you're making it, I'm afraid.

Airsoft is about completing objectives, but the same tactics as work in real battle situations don't work in Airsoft, and vice versa.

Can I reasonably safely stick my head out from behind an obstacle when I know the enemy is about 200 feet away? In airsoft, yes. For real, no. Therefore a good chunk of real-world tactics and knowledge go out the window.

Similarly, I can run out of the 5M range of a non-projectile pyro grenade in an airsoft game and be perfectly fine, whereas a real frag might still present me with a rather inconvenient spine full of metal shards.

"Brappage" is just a fun term to use, like "hoo-ah", "get some", etc. If you have to wince every time you hear it, then that makes one of us with a problem.

senordingdong · 21-01-2010 12:09am

Folks, please don't let me comments derail the thread.
Please.

Lets just try to get it back on topic.

iceage · 21-01-2010 12:21am

Back to the OP, C-90 you could always ask over on IMO or even here on the Mil forums, but prepare yourself for the sound of pins hitting the floor.

Firekitten · 21-01-2010 12:27am

iceage wrote: »

Back to the OP, C-90 you could always ask over on IMO or even here on the Mil forums, but prepare yourself for the sound of pins hitting the floor.

He could ask, but i suspect like ARRSE, he would only post this question if he never wants to use that forum again....

TheDoc · 21-01-2010 12:52am

Poccington wrote: »

As Firekitten already pointed out, those lads are trained to deal with real firefights... As in, the ones where there's no respawn.

So "Brapping some ****" may not be top of the agenda for them.

Exactly why serving personal are shocked when they get it handed to them by a 16 year old airsofter

I dont think they should keep it as a big dirty secret, its interesting to watch and play with someone, who does it for real and see how they do things, the real way.

Aslong as they dont bull**** or have a go at you for having some insignia, I dont see why they should feel the need to keep silent about it.

c-90 · 21-01-2010 3:41am

there was 4 airsofters in my rdf recruit platoon. and between the patriots and neb airsoft teams we have just 3 current or lads who were in it. none of them seem to proud of it on the rdf side but it has helped improve airsofting skills, it improves teamwork and communication, fieldcraft, and rarely simple tactics like a section in attack do work with the amount of ammo making up for the loss of range and accuracy. the only pitfall is other people not knowing or wanting to use the tactics

tbh i wouldnt be ashamed to admit playing airsoft it does help, minimally but it does.

:pac:

Seifer · 21-01-2010 3:54am

Firekitten wrote: »

im sorry, i dont want to call it 'brappage' because i'm not a 13yo counter strike player.

Lemming wrote: »

"brappage" (may I point out I cringe every time I hear that word and think of stereotyped CS players ... sorry guys but I do);

I googled "brappage counterstrike" and the first result is this thread

Stercus Accidit · 21-01-2010 5:07am

Seifer wrote: »

I googled "brappage counterstrike" and the first result is this thread

Epic teh braps yields the same result, I feel important now :pac:

MacAonghusa · 21-01-2010 11:15am

I spent a good few years in the Reserves and think that airsoft can benefit Reserve training and vice versa.

One of the first things I noticed when playing paintball and then airsoft is how clueless some people are when it comes to tactics etc. and also how poor some people are at simply aiming straight.

Unfortunately there is limited real world training which can be applied to airsoft for the simple reason (1 of many) that the range and accuracy of airsoft guns suck completely.
Airsoft is best played fast and aggressive (IMO), a tactic that would get you killed in a real conflict.

On the flip side I think playing airsoft can teach your average reservist that 1) you need to aim your gun (blanks are magic because you just need to aim in the general direction and your opponent is dead) and 2) stick your head up and it will be shot off. Airsoft teaches you to be a bit more cagey, something which you don't learn when firing blanks.

JonnyTwoCombs · 23-01-2010 2:16am

Quite a few members of the DF participate in airsoft at some level. My guess would be most of these would be members of the RDF and perhaps a few PDF. I have been to a few site were people have turned out sporting the new Irish Guggi Flage – Mmmmmm, now I wonder where they got that??

Any one who attended the recent AIM Cup, must have surely noticed a fair few ‘military types’ knocking around the event.

thermo · 23-01-2010 4:30am

Did anybody see in this months AI the pic of the Irish team, and half them are wearing Irish cammo uniforms?

Gatling · 23-01-2010 4:40am

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr yes,
had a serving member of the PDF ring me about it( IAA cap on ) not a happy camper i can tell ya , all sites know its illeagal and should know better than to allow it on site

thermo · 23-01-2010 4:50am

Gatling wrote: »

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr yes,
had a serving member of the PDF ring me about it( IAA cap on ) not a happy camper i can tell ya , all sites know its illeagal and should know better than to allow it on site

sure it happens every weekend across the country! Was out last Sunday and saw a few guys in the issued kit,,,,,,,,,

Gatling · 23-01-2010 5:00am

if there serving id love to see them identified and reported to there CO's .
if there joe civilian then the sites have a standard to uphold either way
and turn players away who wear it

Masada · 23-01-2010 12:52pm

What qualifies a site to be able to positively identify Irish DPM? I've often been mistaken for wearing it when using Slovenian and French F2.,

I havent seen this article yet myself, was it in Ireland or UK?

thermo · 23-01-2010 1:08pm

The team are based in limirick

thebillynator · 23-01-2010 1:17pm

yeah i know a guy who has it hes about 14 i asked him where he got it nd he said off of someone in the army
*it is really nice camo though*

Gatling · 23-01-2010 4:17pm

Masada wrote: »

What qualifies a site to be able to positively identify Irish DPM? I've often been mistaken for wearing it when using Slovenian and French F2.,

I havent seen this article yet myself, was it in Ireland or UK?

to be honest i was hoping it was a mistake so i picked up a copy and its irish dpm being worn by a few people in the photo

Masada · 23-01-2010 6:27pm

Oh i dont dispute that, i have seen a few people do it myself.
its the turning players away when you think their using it is the difficult part. you would need to know the camo's well to say with any security that they are for sure, Irish DPM.

I don't really know why there's such a big deal made about it all the time though, there's plenty of people outside of airsoft (and before airsoft even existed in this country) that are happy to wear it and not give a sh1t. These threads also give them impression that DPM clad players are rampant out there when in actual fact its only on rare occasion you'll actually see someone using it. We should leave the authorities to do their own jobs in my opinion,

Slovenian,
http://www.soldiermod.com/volume-2/images/articles/programmes/slovenia/night-vision-goggles.jpg

Irish Soldier,
http://image53.webshots.com/153/9/15/82/2580915820086443500QoLTwI_ph.jpg

French, (Walking away as usual...)
http://www.corsophotos.com/images/French_Army.JPG

Rogue-Trooper · 23-01-2010 6:43pm

thermo wrote: »

Did anybody see in this months AI the pic of the Irish team, and half them are wearing Irish cammo uniforms?

Here is a scan of the pic (sorry, it spans 2 pages so there is a big crease on the photo!). Looks like 4 of them are wearing Irish DPM to me. The guy on the RHS is hardly a current serving member with that haircut!:rolleyes:

Stercus Accidit · 23-01-2010 6:53pm

Its up to sites to enforce I suppose, once that happens the message will get out that this is not ok.

While it really is the individuals responsibility, we all know that only works until the other guy is wearing it why can't I is dealt with.

Just like hot guns or cheating are the individuals responsibility, if the sites root this out the individual will cop on.

Maybe an IAA memo to all affiliated sites would help, I don't know if preventing the use of restricted irish dpm is part of the membership requirements specifically.

MacAonghusa · 23-01-2010 8:37pm

I don't think wearing an item of Irish DPM actually is illegal (to the best of my knowledge).
I asked the DF Press Officer before and his answer was less than clear and basically amounted to it being illegal to "impersonate DF personnel".

I pretty sure it is illegal to sell the gear here but not sure about wearing it. I often see people wear the smock around town.

gerrowadat · 23-01-2010 8:42pm

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Its up to sites to enforce I suppose, once that happens the message will get out that this is not ok.

While it really is the individuals responsibility, we all know that only works until the other guy is wearing it why can't I is dealt with.

Just like hot guns or cheating are the individuals responsibility, if the sites root this out the individual will cop on.

Maybe an IAA memo to all affiliated sites would help, I don't know if preventing the use of restricted irish dpm is part of the membership requirements specifically.

It's covered under 'not breaking the law'.

MacAonghusa · 23-01-2010 8:43pm

From the horses mouth, so to speak:

Section 258 (b) of the Defence Act s (1954 – 1998, as amended) states:

“Any person who falsely represents himself [/ herself] to any military or civil authority to belong to, or to be, or to have been a particular member of the Defence Forces, shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding [euro] 250.00 or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months.”

"Further to that, under Defence Forces Regulations when a soldier discharges from the Defence Forces they must hand in all items of uniform and are not permitted to pass on, distribute, sell or wear that uniform. It is also an offence for a member of the Defence Forces to sell items of issue uniform."

thermo · 23-01-2010 8:47pm

There is 7 out of the 14 in that pic wearing bits of the army issue kit.

gerrowadat · 23-01-2010 9:02pm

MacAonghusa wrote: »

From the horses mouth, so to speak:

Section 258 (b) of the Defence Act s (1954 – 1998, as amended) states:

“Any person who falsely represents himself [/ herself] to any military or civil authority to belong to, or to be, or to have been a particular member of the Defence Forces, shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding [euro] 250.00 or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months.”

"Further to that, under Defence Forces Regulations when a soldier discharges from the Defence Forces they must hand in all items of uniform and are not permitted to pass on, distribute, sell or wear that uniform. It is also an offence for a member of the Defence Forces to sell items of issue uniform."

There's also a stern bollocking in it for you if you're caught wearing it off-duty. It's not 'illegal' as such, but it was enough of an issue that the DF contacted the IAA last year to have a friendly chat. I suspect that making an enemy of the DF is the last thing airsoft wants to do.

MacAonghusa · 23-01-2010 9:08pm

gerrowadat wrote: »

There's also a stern bollocking in it for you if you're caught wearing it off-duty. It's not 'illegal' as such, but it was enough of an issue that the DF contacted the IAA last year to have a friendly chat. I suspect that making an enemy of the DF is the last thing airsoft wants to do.

They can't give you a bollocking unless you're DF personnel.
Mind you I don't think airsofters should wear the DF gear anyway (at least not the smock).

iceage · 23-01-2010 9:13pm

Nice name and shame there guys..well done. you've managed to plaster their faces on a public Forum, named the team and "tarred" them with the illigal DPM brush. And as for the original post asking how many of the your RDF/PDF play Airsoft....this is really going to welcome them back to the sport isn't it.

This has just wandered off on a witchhunt for heads sporting Irish DPM at sites. End of the day its down to the sites really to police this, don't you agree?

Stercus Accidit · 23-01-2010 9:15pm

gerrowadat wrote: »

It's covered under 'not breaking the law'.

I imagine it is, but how many people need to be told "rtfm", mentioning it specifically sorts the issue.

iceage · 23-01-2010 9:18pm

MacAonghusa wrote: »

They can't give you a bollocking unless you're DF personnel.
Mind you I don't think airsofters should wear the DF gear anyway (at least not the smock).

If your a serving member of the DF, the wearing of your uniform off duty for no reason, especially charging around a field is a no-no...will find yourself at the wrong end of a bollocking.

Rogue-Trooper · 23-01-2010 9:24pm

iceage wrote: »

Nice name and shame there guys..well done. you've managed to plaster their faces on a public Forum, named the team and "tarred" them with the illigal DPM brush.

With respect iceage, they did send a high-resolution picture of themselves wearing the gear, with their team name, to the largest worldwide airsoft publication for inclusion in their gallery.

how many reservists/pdf play airsoft?

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