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Taliban - "Holy Crap, I've Been Shot By A Jesus Rifle" LOL

2

Comments

  • #32
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    NothingMan wrote: »
    That just gave me an idea. Put books in Braille on condoms. Then if prostitutes can learn to read with their vaginas they'd be able study while they work and perhaps one day they can get out of the prostitution racket.


    Patent Pending!

    That's a novel idea.


  • #33
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    I think that's been around a lot longer than communism.

    The motto aside, the US is secular.

    Look like it origins are from the Civil war:

    In God We Trust: The Motto

    **EDIT**
    Just read sceptre's post, so looks like I wasn't totally wrong.
    **EDIT**


  • #34
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    That's a novel idea.

    I am sure there are some who could even read 2 or 3 books at a time. Thus reducing the overall study time required to complete their course of studies.


  • #35
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Morlar wrote: »
    I am sure there are some who could even read 2 or 3 books at a time. Thus reducing the overall study time required to complete their course of studies.

    Isn't that a crammer course, or a new slant on rapid reading?


    It makes "I'm just off to the library" a lot more interesting.


  • #36
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    Isn't that a crammer course, or a new slant on rapid reading?

    I believe so, also forgot to say grinds can be arranged if necessary.


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  • #37
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Morlar wrote: »
    I believe so, also forgot to say grinds can be arranged if necessary.


    ...and the endings in some books are a bit of an anti-climax.


  • #38
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,898 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    wes wrote: »
    I was under the impression that the US government claimed to be a secular state, and it is also pretty hypocritical of a government that claims to be fighting a war against Religous extremism, to have there weapons covered in Biblical quotes, and not to mention it is a massive propoganda own goal. The Taliban and other Islamist extremists groups can easily use this as evidence of the US's crusade against Muslims, and get more people to fight for them.

    So basically, anyway you look at it, the entire thing is incredibly stupid, and may even cost the lives of US soliders, by increasing the ranks of the people there fighting.

    I don't think so. The biblical references on Trijicon sights have been there since day 1, this isn't a new discovery (though maybe it is to the mass media, but we gun nuts have always known about it), we were using them in Iraq when I was there and over the last six or seven years, there has not been as much of a peep of opposition propoganda or complaint in all this time. It's, in effect, as harmful as a US soldier going into battle wearing a crucifix or star of David under his ACUs. He represents the US nation and government whilst adorned with the 'wrong' religious symbolism, even though you don't know it to look at him. Could it give the wrong impression? Sure. Is it a problem? No.

    Frankly, I think people are going to be far more liable to formulate their opinions on me over whether or not I'm pointing my rifle at them than what is written on tiny inscriptions on the side which nobody can read unless you pick up the rifle and examine it from a range of about six inches.

    Now, is there an issue with it fundamentally? I'll grant there likely is. Really, government equipment shouldn't have anything specifically religious like bible references on it. The molehill does exist, and should be flattened out. But it's not Mt Everest.

    NTM


  • #39
    citizen_p
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭citizen_p


    they have it on their money, why not a gun.
    so what if they use these on their sghts, itdosnt really make a diffrence to the person getting shot. as long as the sight helps you shoot straight it shouldnt matter.


  • #40
    InReality
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭InReality


    It would be a smart move from them to get a new supplier.
    As the gun itself belongs to the US govt , its its similar to having a religous image on a soldiers uniform in my view.


  • #41
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    wes wrote: »
    I was under the impression that the US government claimed to be a secular state, and it is also pretty hypocritical of a government that claims to be fighting a war against Religous extremism, to have there weapons covered in Biblical quotes, and not to mention it is a massive propoganda own goal.
    Thats really over-stretching the truth I think. My reading of the article suggests the Military [at large] was unaware of this or gave it any though. Armory officers and all may have been aware of it, sure. I doubt its something the Brass asked Trijicon to inscribe on the equipment they were ordering.
    The Taliban and other Islamist extremists groups can easily use this as evidence of the US's crusade against Muslims, and get more people to fight for them.

    So basically, anyway you look at it, the entire thing is incredibly stupid, and may even cost the lives of US soliders, by increasing the ranks of the people there fighting.
    Unfortunately. For this and many reasons the rules regarding religious iconography in the Military were re-drafted some time ago.
    Honestly, I would have taught [sic] the US government and military would be smarter than this, especially after the mess that was the Iraq war, when they were looking for imaginary WMDs. [/Irrelevant Snipe - Over]
    I would blame Trijicon for that though, not the Military. I doubt either of them did this without the best intentions though. Admittedly, its a very poetic sentiment, that even as an Atheist I could at least appreciate. The arms company clearly acted without considering potential repercussions though.


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  • #42
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    It's, in effect, as harmful as a US soldier going into battle wearing a crucifix or star of David under his ACUs. He represents the US nation and government whilst adorned with the 'wrong' religious symbolism, even though you don't know it to look at him. Could it give the wrong impression? Sure. Is it a problem? No.
    I don't agree, It's a soldiers personal choice what he wears under his uniform. This kind of thing shows the religious leanings of the people sending those soldiers out to kill or be killed. It shows that there's an underlining religious fundamentalism at the heart of the US military. Fundamentalist have no respect for human life and no concept of logical thought.

    I really don't understand how people can mix guns and god, it's just madness, it makes no sense, it's hypocritical and any country where this is common place is just full of crazies.


  • #43
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    I don't think so. The biblical references on Trijicon sights have been there since day 1, this isn't a new discovery (though maybe it is to the mass media, but we gun nuts have always known about it), we were using them in Iraq when I was there and over the last six or seven years, there has not been as much of a peep of opposition propoganda or complaint in all this time. It's, in effect, as harmful as a US soldier going into battle wearing a crucifix or star of David under his ACUs. He represents the US nation and government whilst adorned with the 'wrong' religious symbolism, even though you don't know it to look at him. Could it give the wrong impression? Sure. Is it a problem? No.

    Well, if it was known, then I find it doubly troubling that the US miltary didn't do anything about it.

    As for opposition propoganda, I don't think they knew about, but now that it is well known, you can be sure they will be using it to great effect, and there really is no reason for those Bible quote to be there either way. At best there pointless, and at worst a propoganda gift for the other guy.
    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Frankly, I think people are going to be far more liable to formulate their opinions on me over whether or not I'm pointing my rifle at them than what is written on tiny inscriptions on the side which nobody can read unless you pick up the rifle and examine it from a range of about six inches.

    Which is true enough, but now that this is out there, you can be sure it will be used as recruitment by the other guy, who now has a little more "proof" of a "Western Crusade".
    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Now, is there an issue with it fundamentally? I'll grant there likely is. Really, government equipment shouldn't have anything specifically religious like bible references on it. The molehill does exist, and should be flattened out. But it's not Mt Everest.

    Well, the issue here is that the US miltary is fighting a counter insurgency, and something like this at best doesn't help, and will be used against the US, and there is no good reason for it especially, since it was something that you have said was known, it could have been fixed ages ago and be a non-issue. It reminds of the US drones that have no encryption, it was something that was well known and no one did anything about it.


  • #44
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Overheal wrote: »
    Thats really over-stretching the truth I think. My reading of the article suggests the Military [at large] was unaware of this or gave it any though. Armory officers and all may have been aware of it, sure. I doubt its something the Brass asked Trijicon to inscribe on the equipment they were ordering.

    Why didn't the officers infrom there higher ups then, and get new weapons to have the Biblical quotes removed? If the military is suppose to secular, then I would expect them to have such thing removed.
    Overheal wrote: »
    Unfortunately. For this and many reasons the rules regarding religious iconography in the Military were re-drafted some time ago.

    Well, if people can't keep there Religion to themselves in a secular miltary, then unfortunately, you will need such rules. The Turkish miltary similary has stricts rules about this kind of thing as well for example.
    Overheal wrote: »
    I would blame Trijicon for that though, not the Military. I doubt either of them did this without the best intentions though. Admittedly, its a very poetic sentiment, that even as an Atheist I could at least appreciate. The arms company clearly acted without considering potential repercussions though.

    Seem to me that Trijicon were at best pretty stupid about the whole thing imho, and the miltary should perhaps keep a better eye on there contracters as well.


  • #45
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I really don't understand how people can mix guns and god, it's just madness
    Its a Scope, not a Gun. The Gun has no such religious marking.
    Seem to me that Trijicon were at best pretty stupid about the whole thing imho, and the miltary should perhaps keep a better eye on there contracters as well.
    Indeed, but admittedly this was an Easter Egg.... no Irony intended.


  • #46
    Instant Karma
    Closed Accounts Posts: 850 ✭✭✭Instant Karma


    Overheal wrote: »
    Its a Scope, not a Gun. The Gun has no such religious marking.

    Your being pedantic now. Sticking up for your country is as noble as a grape and all, but as an atheist surely you see the problem here?


  • #47
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Overheal wrote: »
    Indeed, but admittedly this was an Easter Egg.... no Irony intended.

    An Easter Egg, that can be exploited by the other guy to great effect against there own nations troops.


  • #48
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,898 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I don't agree, It's a soldiers personal choice what he wears under his uniform.

    Actually, there are limits. For example, certain tattoos are banned, even if they will never be seen unless the guy's walking around without a T-shirt. Even wearing civilian attire off-duty is technically a privilige which can be revoked. The wearing of religious items can be proscribed by military law, but they are left alone because, basically, the harm caused by something that nobody can see except in very unique circumstances vs the morale boost is pretty insignificant.
    This kind of thing shows the religious leanings of the people sending those soldiers out to kill or be killed. It shows that there's an underlining religious fundamentalism at the heart of the US military. Fundamentalist have no respect for human life and no concept of logical thought.

    That's a little excessive, isn't it? Firstly, the marking was placed by the company, not by the US military. Secondly, religion is important to most any military. Ireland has a military chaplain's corps, do you really think it's a fundamentalist problem and Irish soldiers have no respect for human life? Or that it's hypocritical for an organisation whose primary purpose is to kill people and break things to have a religious support structure?
    I really don't understand how people can mix guns and god, it's just madness, it makes no sense, it's hypocritical and any country where this is common place is just full of crazies.

    Faith is important to some people. Be it guns, swords, pens, whatever, people with faith will generally hope to be guided into the right path by their chosen deity. At least, that's the impression I get, I'm more on the unbeliever side of the path.
    Well, if it was known, then I find it doubly troubling that the US miltary didn't do anything about it.

    Didn't seem to be doing any harm. Kindof a thoughtful touch, if anything.
    At best there pointless, and at worst a propoganda gift for the other guy.

    I agree with you, but the only reason it's a propoganda gift is because someone made a 'breathtaking discovery' and posted it all over the news thinking it was of critical importance saying "It's a propoganda coup for the opposition!." From the propoganda point of view, do you really think they wouldn't make as much meat of a chaplain's service in Afghanistan or a photo of a chaplain's insignia on his uniform? You can find photographs of the evil religious crusaders asking for their false God's blessing before going on mission in Afghanistan on the official Army website, for crying out loud.

    NTM


  • #49
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    That's a little excessive, isn't it?
    Well I don't think so any more to be honest. I used to be more agnostic and open to thinking that people can believe whatever they like it doesn't matter, but when you see the religious trying to push their agenda onto others and try and clamp down on freedoms because they believe things they don't like are evil because they read it in an ancient fairy tail then it becomes apparent that their a danger to me and others.

    Faith is important to some people. Be it guns, swords, pens, whatever, people with faith will generally hope to be guided into the right path by their chosen deity. At least, that's the impression I get, I'm more on the unbeliever side of the path.
    Faith should be personal. If someone accepts god then the ten commandments are their personal rules. I don't mind any faith living their life to a moral code, it's admirable. It's when they go out demanding blood, or wanting restrictions on freedoms is when it gets out of hand. That doesn't happen here much in Europe but it does in those fundamentalist parts of the world like the middle east and the USA. As a Christian it's against your religion to kill, the extreme fundamentalist Americans just seem to willing to aggressively defend their faith, it just doesn't strike me as very Christian.


  • #50
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Instant Karma wrote: »
    Your being pedantic now. Sticking up for your country is as noble as a grape and all, but as an atheist surely you see the problem here?
    Im not sure its Pedantic, rather Semantic. These are Scopes, used for improving vision, with Serial numbers which relate to New Testament quotes which mirror this symbolism: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

    "Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

    You have to concede, its a lot different, than if these were serial numbers being printed out of a Rifle Manufactory, and the referred quotes were more along the lines of Fire Brimstone and Vengeful Fury, bla bla bla.

    /Where the hell is Jakkass?
    surely you see the problem here?
    Of course, I thought others had mentioned it quite clearly; Taliban and Opposition forces will ultimately turn this to their advantages as a rally call against US Forces. To say they don't know about it is kinda silly. We may have the image of savages up in the mountains hiding in caves eating berries but they are trained and coordinated, and are not blind to keeping a pulse on International Media sources. They knew about it before After Hours did.

    The supreme irony though, is that the Activist group that has been plastering this all over the blogosphere is going to ultimately be the group that brought this to the level of Attention that will result in more deaths.


  • #51
    Mediocrity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭Mediocrity


    TheZohan wrote: »
    Please don't turn this into an America bashing thread.

    You can comment on the military and the law makers but lets not start bitchin' about all Americans.

    Please don't turn this thread into a Christianity hate-fest: the last acceptable predjudice.


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  • #52
    Mediocrity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭Mediocrity


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Faith should be personal.
    Personal yes. Private no.


  • #53
    MaybeLogic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭MaybeLogic


    Mediocrity wrote: »
    Please don't turn this thread into a Christianity hate-fest: the last acceptable predjudice.

    Don't forget predjudice against men and (some) drug dealers.


  • #54
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Mediocrity wrote: »
    Personal yes. Private no.
    Whaddya mean?


  • #55
    Mrmoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭Mrmoe


    This is really a non issue. Why is the American media even reporting this? Do they not realise that they are potentially harming their own soldiers no matter what their political point of view is? Although putting biblical quotes on a killing instrment is a bit of an oxymoron. People argue that "In God we trust" is enscribed on their money but it does not specifcally refer to which God. God has many interpretations. If people are looking to create a secular society they need to know which battles to fight.


  • #56
    Mediocrity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭Mediocrity


    Mrmoe wrote: »
    This is really a non issue. Why is the American media even reporting this? Do they not realise that they are potentially harming their own soldiers no matter what their political point of view is? Although putting biblical quotes on a killing instrment is a bit of an oxymoron. People argue that "In God we trust" is enscribed on their money but it does not specifcally refer to which God. God has many interpretations. If people are looking to create a secular society they need to know which battles to fight.

    Who says we are all striving for a "secular society"? (whatever that means).

    And there are instances where killing is morally acceptable. i.e. in the case of a just war. And I don't believe the "war against the Taliban" is a just war, nor a "war" for that matter.


  • #57
    Mrmoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭Mrmoe


    Mediocrity wrote: »
    Who says we are all striving for a "secular society"? (whatever that means).

    And there are instances where killing is morally acceptable. i.e. in the case of a just war. And I don't believe the "war against the Taliban" is a just war, nor a "war" for that matter.

    Do you not see the obvious contradiction between putting references from a book that espouses a peaceful society on a instrument that is designed to kill people?

    You are correct in saying that you can have a just war but wars are rarely ever just.

    Probably secular is the wrong term to use, what I really meant was that people who do not want a particular religion/belief favoured over the other by the government of a nation.


  • #58
    Mediocrity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭Mediocrity


    Mrmoe wrote: »
    Do you not see the obvious contradiction between putting references from a book that espouses a peaceful society on a instrument that is designed to kill people?
    What's the contradiction? You do agree that in order to have a functioning society, you have to refer to law that's written down somewhere?


  • #59
    Mrmoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭Mrmoe


    Mediocrity wrote: »
    What's the contradiction?

    killing instrument ≠ peaceful society

    Guns can be used for moral purposes but the vast majority of the time they are used for immoral purposes so to place quotations from a book that advocates peace is contradictary.
    Mediocrity wrote: »
    You do agree that in order to have a functioning society, you have to refer to law that's written down somewhere?

    You are correct, laws have to be written down somewhere but I am hardly going to tattoo them on my penis, now that just wouldn't be appropriate.:eek:


  • #60
    Seifer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,265 ✭✭✭Seifer


    Mediocrity wrote: »
    What's the contradiction? You do agree that in order to have a functioning society, you have to refer to law that's written down somewhere?
    You quoted the explanation of the contradiction?
    US law stems from its constitution and yes, is written down.


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  • #61
    Mediocrity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭Mediocrity


    Mrmoe wrote: »
    killing instrument ≠ peaceful society

    Guns can be used for moral purposes but the vast majority of the time they are used for immoral purposes so to place quotations from a book that advocates peace is contradictary.



    You are correct, laws have to be written down somewhere but I am hardly going to tattoo them on my penis, now that just wouldn't be appropriate.:eek:

    What are you on about straw man?


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