Defamation Documentry and Irish Israel relations?

Kipperhell · 13-01-2010 01:02PM #1

Channel 4 had a documentary on last night about anti-Semitism which was quite good. Effectively there are organisations that see any negative comments on Israel as defamation of all Jews and revealing true anti-Semitics.

I did a quick search and it turns out some people think of Ireland as anti-Semitic. I know we aren't actually very good with integration with recent immigrants but I generally see that as bedding in period.

The Jewish population in Ireland has definitely dwindled but I thought that was mostly to do with economic emigration.

I would think Ireland would actually have a pretty good objective view of their situation and be useful for some form of peace or road towards it. Am I missing something?

Check it out Mary Robinson is a threat apparently.

orourkeda · 13-01-2010 01:10PM

They've probably all left Ireland to live in palestine

Morlar · 13-01-2010 01:13PM

Kipperhell wrote: »

I did a quick search and it turns out some people think of Ireland as anti-Semitic.

The people who repeatedly throw those allegations about have zero credibility. They have cried wolf about a zillion times too often to be taken seriously. Jewish advocacy groups need allegations of anti semitism to justify their own exsistence & look for preferential treatment or as a means to undermine legitimate opposition to mistreatment of palestinians. No one outside of their own sphere and some politically correct idiots in america take them seriously.

My name is URL · 13-01-2010 01:13PM

Some Jews are always on the lookout for something to cause people to think that anti-semitism is rampant

they seem to have a victim mentality that they just can't get over

bonerm · 13-01-2010 01:20PM

I'm torn on this issue. In one hand I'd probably be happy if Palestinians destroyed the state of Israel forever, but on the other hand I love Curb your Enthusiam.

griffdaddy · 13-01-2010 01:23PM

I see Judaism as a direct threat to the Irish Breakfast, so of course I'm going to be Anti-Semitic.

orourkeda · 13-01-2010 01:24PM

griffdaddy wrote: »

I see Judaism as a direct threat to the Irish Breakfast, so of course I'm going to be Anti-Semitic.

Are rashers and pork sausages anti-semitic or anti-islamic?

wes · 13-01-2010 01:25PM

While, there is certainly Anti-Semitism out there, and it should be condemned and challeneged when its rears its ugly head. However, crying wolf every 2 minutes won't help things in any way shape or form, and sadly this happens a lot whenever the IDF engages in another atrocity against the Palestinians, and people offer criticism against it, which often results in the predictable accusation of Anti-semitism, regardless of the merits of the criticism.

IvySlayer · 13-01-2010 01:28PM

It's amazing everything time someone tries to condemn Isreal for it's actions they brand it as anti semitism.

novarock · 13-01-2010 01:31PM

Israel see any criticism of their foreign policy as Anti-Semetism. Or any criticism for that matter. Im not Anti-semetic by any means - but I am certainly Anti-Israels foreign policy in relation to palestine..

Id say that a lot of irish people feel the same because of the inbred hatred of countries that cant stay inside their own borders, its no secret really.

Morlar · 13-01-2010 01:35PM

novarock wrote: »

Israel see any criticism of their foreign policy as Anti-Semetism. Or any criticism for that matter.

I don't think they genuinely do, I just think they are acutely aware of the value of their 'get out of jail free card', also those engaged in this have no concept of shame or of respect for others. Perhaps it's a considered thing, along the lines of 'we know this is immoral but the end justifies the means' but more likely it's just convenient and they are not imaginative enough to combat criticism of isreal in a more legitimate manner. I actually think israel would have a lot more friends internationally if they cut this nonsense and were more above board about their actions & motives etc.

Kipperhell · 13-01-2010 01:37PM

IvySlayer wrote: »

It's amazing everything time someone tries to condemn Isreal for it's actions they brand it as anti semitism.

The documentary did a reasonable job of showing why this is the case and the people involved in doing so. ADL really were shown to be exaggerating things for their own purposes.

The worst thing was the school kids spouting out how the world hates Jews and that everybody knows that. Their visits to the concentration camps kind of sounded like indoctrination into hatred and fear. Afterwards one teenager seemed to sincerely advocating killing the heirs of anybody involved as justice.

The next generation from Israel might actually be more xenophobic judging by what they were teaching.

Xluna · 13-01-2010 01:38PM

"Criticise us and you're an anti semite"( Level three on the Satanic scale,just ahead of rapist but below child molester.) Wow that must be a tempting card for a nation to use in order to get their own way in politics. Kind of a form of psychological terrorism when you think about it.

BraziliaNZ · 13-01-2010 01:43PM

I don't like what Israel are doing and every Israeli I've met has been a complete and utter pr*ck. Don't want anything to do with Israel personally and I boycott their products. A lot of the potatoes/veg you buy in Tesco etc are grown there, beware!

kmick · 13-01-2010 01:45PM

I actually feel sorry for them on some level. Always looking for a bad guy in very soft targets. Once you stifle discussion and push things underground it just makes things worse. Israel strikes me as a country in very ideological and political meltdown. I find it ironic that the long term plan is to build a wall around themselves ostensibly to keep people out.

orourkeda · 13-01-2010 01:47PM

kmick wrote: »

I actually feel sorry for them on some level. Always looking for a bad guy in very soft targets. Once you stifle discussion and push things underground it just makes things worse. Israel strikes me as a country in very ideological and political meltdown. I find it ironic that the long term plan is to build a wall around themselves ostensibly to keep people out.

We should do that here.

DublinWriter · 13-01-2010 01:51PM

orourkeda wrote: »

They've probably all left Ireland to live in palestine

Most emigrated to Manchester between 1945 and 1960.

There's a world of a difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism, there's even a Jewish anti-Zionist organisation in the UK FFS.

Kipperhell · 13-01-2010 01:54PM

Xluna wrote: »

"Criticise us and you're an anti semite"( Level three on the Satanic scale,just ahead of rapist but below child molester.) Wow that must be a tempting card for a nation to use in order to get their own way in politics. Kind of a form of psychological terrorism when you think about it.

You should see the documentary ADL chairman basically bullies the Polish (I think) officials under the threat of perceived influence of US political/economic power. The ADL guys then joke about how they do this, start saying stuff but won't quite finish due to the camera.

I all seemed very human and normal abuse of power.

The documentary won some awards so try catching it.

pablomakaveli · 13-01-2010 01:59PM

I think any groups who use the race card or cry persecution anytime they are criticised are only shooting themselves in foot and will only create resentment towards themselves by doing so.

I disagree that Ireland is anti-semitic. Granted there has been anti-semitic actions here in the past but nowhere near the scale in places like Russia, Germany, France etc. I don't think theres enough to label Ireland an anti-semitic country.

Sheeps · 13-01-2010 02:03PM

I don't like ultra orthodox Jews. I generally don't like extremists though, because they all seem to be fucking stupid.

mike65 · 13-01-2010 02:14PM

Ireland isn't so much anti-Semitec as it is anti anyone who is not Catholic. See schools, healthcare, inter marriage etc.

TheDuderino · 13-01-2010 02:15PM

novarock wrote: »

Israel see any criticism of their foreign policy as Anti-Semetism. Or any criticism for that matter. Im not Anti-semetic by any means - but I am certainly Anti-Israels foreign policy in relation to palestine..

Id say that a lot of irish people feel the same because of the inbred hatred of countries that cant stay inside their own borders, its no secret really.

True.
But they tend to forget that the surrounding arab counties tried to kill the newborn state of Israel back in '48 (I think). The Arabs couldnt stay within their own borders.
Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza was a stupid mistake. The shouldnt have stepped in there.
Then again, "Land for Peace" worked well enough with the Egyptians. Why not with the Palestinians?

ejmaztec · 13-01-2010 02:17PM

Roses are red,
violets are bluish,
if it weren't for Christmas,
we'd all be Jewish.

wes · 13-01-2010 02:21PM

TheDuderino wrote: »

True.
But they tend to forget that the surrounding arab counties tried to kill the newborn state of Israel back in '48 (I think). The Arabs couldnt stay within their own borders.

You fail to mention that the new born state of Israel was created by European colonists. European colonists were pretty much unwelcome any where on the planet when they showed up to nick other peoples land.

TheDuderino wrote: »

Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza was a stupid mistake. The shouldnt have stepped in there.
Then again, "Land for Peace" worked well enough with the Egyptians. Why not with the Palestinians?

Sure, it can certainly work, but the Israeli's are still taking land from the Palestinains, and the Palestinians are hopelessly divided.

CinammonGirl · 13-01-2010 02:22PM

In fairness, we don't have a great record in our treatment of Jews in this country (the Limerick pogrom in the early 1900s, Oliver J Flanagan's speech in 1943 urging the "routing out" of Jews from the country) but that was all a long time ago and hopefully we have moved on from that.

As a lot of posters have pointed out, the anti-Semite card is played all too frequently when Israel is criticised for some or other abuse. I would certainly not consider myself an anti-Semite by any means (pro-Jewish if anything, Jewish people have made an extradordinarily disproportionate contribution to the worlds of culture, business, etc) but some of the acts perpetrated by the Israeli state in the cause of Judaism just beggar belief. Their complete disregard for the UN is a case in point.

Having spent a few months in Israel, at a personal level, I consider it a fascinating country with a population that has a permanently paranoid and siege mentality. My favourite headline from one of their most popular broadsheets during the time I was there was "Ten reasons why we have to bomb Iran now"!!!!

I would be interested in seeing that documentary.

Xluna · 13-01-2010 02:22PM

mike65 wrote: »

Ireland isn't so much anti-Semitec as it is anti anyone who is not Catholic. See schools, healthcare, inter marriage etc.

Legislation/constitution is one thing,public opinion is another. Irish people in general are pretty non religious imo.

mike65 · 13-01-2010 02:27PM

People have to operate within the law of the state though.

dsmythy · 13-01-2010 02:31PM

I think you'll find that most people in Ireland just simply don't care about Israel nor Palestine. They are more interested in a few pints at the weekend.

13-01-2010 02:32PM

You are not automatically anti-semitic if you are anti-Israeli policies. And that is clear cut. The Jewish lobby groups will just label you anti-semitic so your reputation is destroyed and you will no longer be able to criticize Israeli policies, well in the media anyway. Then the Israeli government can continue with it's 100% wrong in every conceivable way policies. Luckly Ireland, Sweden, etc. are not individuals and as countries can speak their mind somewhat. Irish TDs, MEPs etc. are not dependent on Israeli lobby groups for political campaign donations (unlike a lot of their US counterparts) so they can also critisize Israeli policies. There are countless Israeli/Jewish groups in Israel who also condemn Israeli policies.

dvpower · 13-01-2010 02:53PM

I generally find myself becoming anti anyone who accuses others of being anti-semitic.

InKonspikuou2 · 13-01-2010 02:57PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I don't like what Israel are doing and every Israeli I've met has been a complete and utter pr*ck. Don't want anything to do with Israel personally and I boycott their products. A lot of the potatoes/veg you buy in Tesco etc are grown there, beware!

You probably used their technology to type this though. Israel is a big supplier of processors for Europe. Especially Intel. But i agree with you. I'd say 99% of the Israeli's i have met i have hated. One even got me kicked out of Australia. Well my visa was revoked and i was asked to leave.

And i hate that they also hijacked the term anti-semitic. Not all jews are semitic and semitism includes a lot of Arab groups and languages too. So if someone criticizes Israel over Palestine i don't get how it's anti semitic. They are both semites.

Defamation Documentry and Irish Israel relations?

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