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Attitudes to Porn... Mod Warning Post 719

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Comments

  • #512
    serenacat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭serenacat


    Novella wrote: »
    Serenacat, I think you are getting a really hard time in here and I can understand that it is probably pretty upsetting to have your opinion picked apart like it has been in these last few pages.

    However, when minidazzler asked you what you think porn is about, it kind of got me thinking. You say you have watched enough of it to know but I mean, I have picked out a few things you have said in this thread and I mean, really, do you stand by all of that? yes i do, when i first watched it i hoped that women are living out a fantasy they had of having sex while being watched but i came across shellyluben and saw interviews on the tyra show with porn stars and decided i dont want to support an industry like that.

    I can understand why some people actually want to have sex for a living. Tbh, the thought of being a pornstar doesn't repulse me at all. I don't have issues with my father, we're very close. I don't seek approval from men in an unhealthy manner. I'm not poor. I can honestly just understand that yeah, some people have an extremely open view of sex and sharing their body. Is it really that awful?
    why aren't you doing porn then? i accept some women might not have issues when going into porn but see these as a minority.
    I wouldn't have any problems with any of what you'd said had you have backed it up with some kind of research but you didn't. You made absolutely colossal generalisations, "If a guy wants to do anal, he is gay", for example. It's just not fair to come out with such sweeping statements. true i shouldnt have said this i was p*ssed with constantly being the only one on this thread fighting a losing battle, but i do feel this way.

    I think you kind of have to see where many of the posters are coming from here. I do respect so much the fact that you are all about loving, intimate sex, it's great, it really is but I think maybe you should respect too that others want to do things a little different to that. It doesn't make it wrong or bad. its is very hard to says opinions against something without coming across as judging. i wasn't trying to judge those that watched it. i was trying to slate porn

    Anyway, I just wanted to apologise if I came across as rude and explain properly to you where I was coming from.accept apology
    :)


  • #513
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    mariaalice wrote: »
    one more thing... Sam 34... Boards is a bit of a bear pit you get all sorts of opinions some of them very silly ..im sure people think some of my posts are silly or they don't agree with them....while everyone is entitled to their opinion nobody is entitled to judge anyone...Boards is just a forum where people chat and exchange opinion's and ideas...

    a bit like speakers corner or the original forum.

    thats been my point

    one particular poster here has been judging those who use porn throughout the thread, and thats whats pissing people off


  • #514
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Jakkass wrote: »
    If your sig is indeed the case, I'd like to offer you a cookie around about now :pac:

    Thanks for the cookie, I got a mighty injection to get a filling today & to say I'm like a bear with a sore head is putting it mildly - actually, maybe a cookie isn't such a good idea. :pac:
    Jakkass wrote: »
    There is a problem with this debate, whenever someone puts forward a conservative viewpoint it is perceived to be a personal attack. In reality, I can regard pornography as wrong, and still respect people as individuals.

    I don't think it's the conservatist view that causes the consternation, it's the whole "it destroys relationships", "no intimacy", "causes problems" type blanket assumptions & insinuations about others & their relationships that do. Clearly myself and billions like me are living proof that the majority of people have no issue with either porn or happy, healthy relationships. Why all porn should be judged by the worst example or all porn users by the minority that have issues far beyond what they are viewing is hardly a fair or balanced view of either.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    The separation between sexuality and romantic love could be the biggest danger to traditional marriage.

    Well, firstly, I don't care what endangers traditional marriage - what constitutes their marriage is another decision for the people involved to make. Secondly, I don't think there has to be a separation between sexuality and romantic love when it comes to pornography and thirdly, the assumption of danger is based entirely on there being no sex out with marriage, which again is a personal decision for every adult to make.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    Let me ask you this, do you believe I am commenting honestly and earnestly on this thread?

    I think you are commenting as honestly and earnestly as experience will allow you to. If you had a hugely loving and fulfilling relationship and it involved pornography at some level & you were completely comfortable with that and found it enjoyable then I suspect we wouldn't be having this conversation. :)


  • #515
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    hippiechickie wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.


    shock horror, some women want to be degraded like that, thats what gets them off


  • #516
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    serenacat wrote: »
    i couldnt agree more, well said. *claps* i would rather read a erotic novel then watch any of the porn you listed above which is the type of porn that comes up first when searching.

    fair enough, read your erotic novel.

    but dont judge me, or anyone else, if we do want to watch that type of porn


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  • #517
    serenacat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭serenacat


    sam34 wrote: »
    thats been my point

    one particular poster here has been judging those who use porn throughout the thread, and thats whats pissing people off

    hmmmm not naming anyone in particular


  • #518
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    serenacat wrote: »
    if a couple need porn to spice up their relationship then they are putting a plaster on a bullet wound, porn can ruin familys as husband may get addicted to it and chose it over his wife

    how about situations where the husabnd and wife both willingly watch it together?

    that happens too, you know


  • #519
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    I don't think it's the conservatist view that causes the consternation, it's the whole "it destroys relationships", "no intimacy", "causes problems" type blanket assumptions & insinuations about others & their relationships that do. Clearly myself and billions like me are living proof that the majority of people have no issue with either porn or happy, healthy relationships. Why all porn should be judged by the worst example or all porn users by the minority that have issues far beyond what they are viewing is hardly a fair or balanced view of either.

    So, you don't think that porn is a problem in any relationship?

    The issue goes beyond what problems are in relationships though (although this may be off topic). I think there is an ethical question surrounding the entire porn industry, and whether or not it is acceptable to regard people as sexual objects.
    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    Well, firstly, I don't care what endangers traditional marriage - what constitutes their marriage is another decision for the people involved to make. Secondly, I don't think there has to be a separation between sexuality and romantic love when it comes to pornography and thirdly, the assumption of danger is based entirely on there being no sex out with marriage, which again is a personal decision for every adult to make.

    I didn't think that people who watched it found a romantic connection with the people on screen.

    The danger, isn't referring to the before marriage aspect at all, although I am a supporter of this. Rather it is referring to the separation between sexuality and romantic love in society.
    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    I think you are commenting as honestly and earnestly as experience will allow you to. If you had a hugely loving and fulfilling relationship and it involved pornography at some level & you were completely comfortable with that and found it enjoyable then I suspect we wouldn't be having this conversation. :)

    I think if I was in a hugely loving and fulfilling relationship, I'd be happy with that alone.

    I'm not comfortable with pornography because I believe it to be wrong, it's a moral issue for me.


  • #520
    serenacat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭serenacat


    sam34 wrote: »
    how about situations where the husabnd and wife both willingly watch it together?

    that happens too, you know

    this has been discussed. I think the woman is pressured into it by husband and it isn't a healthy passtime in a relationship


  • #521
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    serenacat wrote: »


    what if a woman prefered a vibrator over her husbands affections if he wasnt doing it for her in the sack? i am not encourgaing this at all, this is why i binned my vibrator i said that earlier on in this topic. There is no intimacy in a vibrator and no comparison with the real thing and shouldn't be used while in a relationship. If it is a very long distance one for instance i can see why it could be a substitute temporarily alright.
    .

    no, you said you binned your vibrator because it "desensitised" you.

    you then tried to claim that watching porn could have the same effect


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  • #522
    DancingDaisy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭DancingDaisy


    serenacat wrote: »
    this has been discussed. I think the woman is pressured into it by husband and it isn't a healthy passtime in a relationship

    What happens when it's the woman's idea to watch porn together, and the thought truly never crossed the man's mind?


  • #523
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    serenacat wrote: »
    and sex is always about intimacy.

    incorrect

    sometimes sex is just about f*cking

    serenacat wrote: »
    you can't have sex without intimacy.

    yes you can.


  • #524
    Jemmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,385 ✭✭✭Jemmy


    This thread is a great read lads & ladies! :p

    I've watched it on my own, with an OH & I read novels too. I don't see the harm in it it's up the individual. Noone forces people to watch it, they enjoy it, they get a thrill from it, and from different sides of it. We all get thrills in different ways. ;)

    As for the actors and the degrading of woman, those woman know what they are doing, noone has chains on them forcing them to do it (or maybe they do depending what your into;):p) anyway they wouldn't be doing the job if they didn't want to.


    Tbh it's like stamp collecting...I'd think eh really stamps that's what you call a hobby?! But I don't judge them let them on! Lmao I'm not say porn is a hobby btw :D:D:D


  • #525
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    serenacat wrote: »
    hmmmm not naming anyone in particular

    I think the problem with the debate is that everybody see the issue through the glasses of their personal morality, and can't help using language that antagonizes people who have a different morality.

    There is nothing right or wrong in the universe, there are only points of view.

    When someone uses language like saying they "reformed" and now don't have casual sex, or explains a lack of love of between porn stars as being some sort of escapism from a life they don't really want - that's judgemental.

    It implies that only the person who expresses the opinion (and people who think like them) are the only people qualified to define "happiness" or "good" or whatever.

    The simple fact is this.
    Some people - men and women - like to have sex a lot of other people. They just like how it feels. It's not because they are crying out, it's just that they love to have sex.

    As long as everyone is consensual, and in a position to make an informed and reasoned decision to BE consensual, there is nothing wrong with that.

    Some people like to be filmed doing it, or to be paid for doing it, or pay to do it, and they make those choices freely, and that's fine. As long as it doesn't scare the horses, no-body gets hurt and that's all that really matters.

    Yes there are issues with dependency just as there are with everything in life - drugs, drink, internet, working out - whatever.

    Those issues are always down to something missing in the sufferers life, and sure, one way to fill that hole is with religion, but there are plenty of other equally valid ways to fill it.
    But the fact that some people become dependent on something, and in turn cause suffering to others, is a problem with the user themselves, not the thing causing the dependency. It's not a valid reason - morally - to look down on anyone who enjoys porn with no problems.


    What you and jakkass don't seem to understand, with the greatest of respect, is that the girl who likes to have sex on film can be just as happy as the person who doesn't, or has found God, or whatever, and their happiness is no less valid, or deserved.


  • #526
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    serenacat wrote: »
    yes at least you didn't..

    so do you think its better he f*cked a stranger rather than watched porn and knocked one out to that?

    if you think porn objectifies women and degrades them, surely a one night stand does similar ?

    (edit, i'm not criticising ONSs,just seeing if serenacat is consistent in her views)
    serenacat wrote: »
    You can have sex with someone once off without feeling a major connection personally i wouldnt do this it is cold however if you are repeatedly having sex with the same women you will start to feel greater feelings for her.

    plenty of people have f*ckbuddies over long periods of time without forming emotional attachments.

    i've done it, for over a year. fulfilled a physical desire only

    plenty of my friends have done it

    its not impossible


  • #527
    Jemmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,385 ✭✭✭Jemmy


    serenacat wrote: »
    this has been discussed. I think the woman is pressured into it by husband and it isn't a healthy passtime in a relationship

    That's totally ridiculous!

    So your saying women wouldn't turn around to their OH and say eh feic off I'm not interested off you go watch it yourself and call me after or similar?! If your OH said hunny lets watch porn tonight would you feel pressured and just say yes?!

    And a pastime?! Sailing is a pastime!


  • #528
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    serenacat wrote: »
    ahh i see, i am referring to real people having sex in real life QUOTE]

    and porn stars are what? robots? aliens? on another dimension?


  • #529
    targus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 93 ✭✭targus


    serenacat wrote: »
    this has been discussed. I think the woman is pressured into it by husband and it isn't a healthy passtime in a relationship

    What a ridiculous ignorant comment to make..Are there no women out

    there who willingly watch porn with their husbands? Of course there is and

    plenty to.

    Can women not make their own decisions whether they watch it or not?Of

    course and plenty to....your post is nonsense and I find it very hollow.


  • #530
    serenacat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭serenacat


    sam34 wrote: »
    no, you said you binned your vibrator because it "desensitised" you.

    you then tried to claim that watching porn could have the same effect
    yes they can in two different ways, vibrator is very powerful and intense and only takes mins to reach peak so when having sex with a guy it takes a lot more for the same pleasure this is what i meant. Also vibrator is a sub for a men and if i have a man i dont need it.
    why i say porn densitises you is because there is sooo much stimulus visualibily and you need more and more to get turned on.
    DancingDaisy wrote: »
    What happens when it's the woman's idea to watch porn together, and the thought truly never crossed the man's mind?
    why would she suggest this? maybe he isn't turning her on so she needs to look at someone else while they are together. if you had brad pitt in your bed would you suggest watching porn together?


  • #531
    Raze_them_all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,477 ✭✭✭✭Raze_them_all


    serenacat wrote: »
    yes they can in two different ways, vibrator is very powerful and intense and only takes mins to reach peak so when having sex with a guy it takes a lot more for the same pleasure this is what i meant. Also vibrator is a sub for a men and if i have a man i dont need it.
    why i say porn densitises you is because there is sooo much stimulus visualibily and you need more and more to get turned on.

    why would she suggest this? maybe he isn't turning her on so she needs to look at someone else while they are together. if you had brad pitt in your bed would you suggest watching porn together?
    So only ugly people in relationships watch porn?

    Your ignorance is amazing.

    Edit: also why would Brad Pitt be good in bed? Because he's good looking or famous? Also do you think him or any of his partners havbe not watched porn. PS they're people


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  • #532
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    Jakkass;63959019 There is a problem with this debate, whenever someone puts forward a conservative viewpoint it is perceived to be a personal attack.


    nice try, but no.

    people here would respect conservative viewpoints.

    what people do not respect is those who have conservative viewpoints judging everyone else

    see my posts from yesterday, and ickle magoos, when we responded to serenacat claiming she hadnt made personal judgements, then we multi-quoted numerous personal slurs she had made


    if she had stated her own opinion without the personal remarks, this thread would be dead by now


  • #533
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    serenacat wrote: »
    yes they can in two different ways, vibrator is very powerful and intense and only takes mins to reach peak so when having sex with a guy it takes a lot more for the same pleasure this is what i meant.
    you see there again - you're saying that your orgasm with a partner is more valid than someone else's with a vibrator. It's not. It's "what works for you" vs "what works for them"
    Also vibrator is a sub for a men
    A vibrator is a sub for a penis. Some women dont want the man.


  • #534
    Jemmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,385 ✭✭✭Jemmy


    serenacat wrote: »
    why would she suggest this? maybe he isn't turning her on so she needs to look at someone else while they are together. if you had brad pitt in your bed would you suggest watching porn together?

    lol why wouldn't she suggest it?! Bit of excitement, something different! Same reason a man would, it doesn't make her dirty and it wouldn't make him sleazy either!

    And if Brad Pitt was in my bed it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference!


  • #535
    minidazzler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,650 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    serenacat wrote: »
    yes they can in two different ways, vibrator is very powerful and intense and only takes mins to reach peak so when having sex with a guy it takes a lot more for the same pleasure this is what i meant. Also vibrator is a sub for a men and if i have a man i dont need it.
    why i say porn densitises you is because there is sooo much stimulus visualibily and you need more and more to get turned on.

    First of all, a vibrator is by no means a sub for a man, as I am quite certain 90 per cent of the ladies here will agree.

    Secondly, you are wrong on the porn meaning you need more to get turned on just because of porn.


  • #536
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    serenacat wrote: »
    this has been discussed. I think the woman is pressured into it by husband and it isn't a healthy passtime in a relationship

    yes, it has been discussed.

    and i, and other women, have told you that we women like watching porn too.

    men here have told you that their partners have suggested watching porn, not vice versa.

    you seem to convienently ignore that though


  • #537
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    serenacat wrote: »
    hmmmm not naming anyone in particular

    well, its fairly clear to anyone who reads the thread and has been pointed out to you repeatedly


  • #538
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    sam34 wrote: »
    nice try, but no.

    people here would respect conservative viewpoints.

    what people do not respect is those who have conservative viewpoints judging everyone else

    Just look at the responses to my posts on this issue. They are all incredibly defensive. It certainly isn't isolated to serenacat. Bearing in mind that I have only read through the first few pages, and the last few pages also.

    It's a contentious issue certainly, and one that won't be resolved easily. It's certainly one that could be discussed in a calmer means.
    tbh wrote:
    There is nothing right or wrong in the universe, there are only points of view.

    This is post-modernism at work. There are rights and wrongs, and more importantly, if there weren't rights and wrongs we would be living in anarchy.
    tbh wrote:
    What you and jakkass don't seem to understand, with the greatest of respect, is that the girl who likes to have sex on film can be just as happy as the person who doesn't, or has found God, or whatever, and their happiness is no less valid, or deserved.

    Whether or not someone likes something is a very different question from whether something is right or wrong. What you're describing is hedonism. One can derive pleasure from things that are wrong.

    I'm not sure if your assumption is warranted though.


  • #539
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Jakkass wrote: »
    So, you don't think that porn is a problem in any relationship?

    You think it's a problem in all relationships - or even most relationships? :P
    Jakkass wrote: »
    The issue goes beyond what problems are in relationships though (although this may be off topic). I think there is an ethical question surrounding the entire porn industry, and whether or not it is acceptable to regard people as sexual objects.

    People are regarded as sexual objects, abolish the sex industry tomorrow and people will still be regarded as sexual objects - what's more, some people like being sexual objects and don't want love and romance, they just want sex. They are as entitled to their lifestyle as you are yours.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    I didn't think that people who watched it found a romantic connection with the people on screen.

    No, I don't think they do either but I thought you were referring to relationships, I presumed you meant relationships between couples as opposed to with the porn stars.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    The danger, isn't referring to the before marriage aspect at all, although I am a supporter of this. Rather it is referring to the separation between sexuality and romantic love in society.

    There has always been a separation between sexuality and romantic love in society, this is nothing new. Love is not a pre-requisite to fantastic sex, as long as that is the case people will be having sex for fun.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    I think if I was in a hugely loving and fulfilling relationship, I'd be happy with that alone.

    Perhaps. I don't see porn being any different to changing positions, locations or using sex toys - variety is the spice of life & can enhance an already brilliant experience.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    I'm not comfortable with pornography because I believe it to be wrong, it's a moral issue for me.

    Which is fine, I respect other peoples right not to go anywhere near pornography - I only take issue when someone projects their own moral issues and expectations and labels ALL pornography as one thing to ALL people and ALL relationships.


  • #540
    serenacat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 670 ✭✭✭serenacat


    sam34 wrote: »
    so do you think its better he f*cked a stranger rather than watched porn and knocked one out to that? ...there isn't much in, because this situations depend on stability of women in question but i presume she was sober and wanted to aswell so this would be better than watching porn as you are giving money to a sick industry.

    if you think porn objectifies women and degrades them, surely a one night stand does similar ?
    if both of you want sex equally and you aren't paying her then no i don't she her as degraded. this isn't something i personally would do
    (edit, i'm not criticising ONSs,just seeing if serenacat is consistent in her views)



    plenty of people have f*ckbuddies over long periods of time without forming emotional attachments.

    i've done it, for over a year. fulfilled a physical desire only

    plenty of my friends have done it

    its not impossible


    i have heard about this and know of people in situations like this
    IMO they are fooling themselves, i mean how aren't they in a relationship? what is the difference? don't they cuddle? talk to each other about problem? i dont understand this at all
    Jemmy wrote: »
    That's totally ridiculous!

    So your saying women wouldn't turn around to their OH and say eh feic off I'm not interested off you go watch it yourself and call me after or similar?! If your OH said hunny lets watch porn tonight would you feel pressured and just say yes?!

    And a pastime?! Sailing is a pastime!
    what does OH stand for? my boyf would never say that to me and if i wasn't in the mood i would do something to get in the mood- set the scene maybe or foreplay
    sam34 wrote: »
    serenacat wrote: »
    ahh i see, i am referring to real people having sex in real life QUOTE]

    and porn stars are what? robots? aliens? on another dimension?
    is this a joke or should i explain....
    targus wrote: »
    What a ridiculous ignorant comment to make..Are there no women out

    there who willingly watch porn with their husbands? Of course there is and

    plenty to.

    Can women not make their own decisions whether they watch it or not?Of

    course and plenty to....your post is nonsense and I find it very hollow.
    posters ask me my opinion and i give it then get told my response is 'nonsense' i have said i don't really know the answer so thought i'd give it a guess.
    Raze_them_all wrote: »
    So only ugly people in relationships watch porn?

    Your ignorance is amazing.
    i'm saying if she is not attracted to her husband/boyf maybe this is the reason, i honestly dont know am guessing as i dont do this. really you should ask women that do this why they do it.
    sam34 wrote: »
    Jakkass wrote: »
    There is a problem with this debate, whenever someone puts forward a conservative viewpoint it is perceived to be a personal attack.QUOTE]


    nice try, but no.

    people here would respect conservative viewpoints.

    what people do not respect is those who have conservative viewpoints judging everyone else

    see my posts from yesterday, and ickle magoos, when we responded to serenacat claiming she hadnt made personal judgements, then we multi-quoted numerous personal slurs she had made


    if she had stated her own opinion without the personal remarks, this thread would be dead by now

    and how interesting would that have been?


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  • #541
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    serenacat wrote: »
    Also vibrator is a sub for a men and if i have a man i dont need it.

    why would she suggest this? maybe he isn't turning her on so she needs to look at someone else while they are together. ?

    *shock, horror* some couples use sex toys together to enhance their sex lives

    likewise, some use porn to enhance their sex lives

    i mean, you're effectively saying people should just need sex and no enhancement of that. so, its not a great leap of teh imagination to say that we should all just have sex in the missionary position, lights off, and nothing more... if you do that, by your logic, you're getting your intimacy, your reproductive function, your "falling in love" chemicals etc. so why do anything else. thats all you need. why change position? why turn on the lights?

    serenacat wrote: »
    if you had brad pitt in your bed would you suggest watching porn together?

    damn right i would!!!

    as well as many other suggestions

    what a night we'd have :D


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