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Tony McCoy v Ruby Walsh

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Comments

  • #32
    Morgans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Morgans


    Yeah. There is definitely a grain of truth in that. Geraghty has been transformed by the dose of confidence that Henderson's winners has given him. Jockeys dont lose many races that they should win, most will ride the percentage call race, but every so often the jockey's skill will win the race. Its about consistency over time.

    Not sure why Townend has been specified, but one thing is for sure. Willie Mullins with Townend riding didnt miss Ruby last year nearly as much as Nicholls did who had Sam Thomas replacing him.

    Those at the top of the game generally deserve their position.


  • #33
    convert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,339 ✭✭✭convert


    Ok guys, please remember to attack the post, not the poster. Next person who does this will be banned. Final warning.


  • #34
    RichieLawlor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,873 ✭✭✭RichieLawlor


    Morgans wrote: »
    Yeah. There is definitely a grain of truth in that. Geraghty has been transformed by the dose of confidence that Henderson's winners has given him. Jockeys dont lose many races that they should win, most will ride the percentage call race, but every so often the jockey's skill will win the race. Its about consistency over time.

    Not sure why Townend has been specified, but one thing is for sure. Willie Mullins with Townend riding didnt miss Ruby last year nearly as much as Nicholls did who had Sam Thomas replacing him.

    Those at the top of the game generally deserve their position.

    Sam was horribly unlucky last year, he proved the year before that he is quality, its unfair to totally blame him. He made Big Bucks what he is today;)


  • #35
    Morgans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Morgans


    RichieLawlor wrote: »
    Sam was horribly unlucky last year, he proved the year before that he is quality, its unfair to totally blame him. He made Big Bucks what he is today;)

    Unlucky enough to be jocked off Master Minded in the Tingle Creek, and it looks like he wont be back on board Denman in the Gold Cup. When the opportunities appear, you have to take them.

    Knowing what we know now about Big Bucks, what price would he be in that Hennessey off those weights? Sam falling off him maybe did make up Nicholls' mind to put him hurdling.


  • #36
    RichieLawlor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,873 ✭✭✭RichieLawlor


    Morgans wrote: »
    Unlucky enough to be jocked off Master Minded in the Tingle Creek, and it looks like he wont be back on board Denman in the Gold Cup. When the opportunities appear, you have to take them.

    Knowing what we know now about Big Bucks, what price would he be in that Hennessey off those weights? Sam falling off him maybe did make up Nicholls' mind to put him hurdling.

    Knowing what we know about BB i wouldnt back him with your money to win a hennessy


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  • #37
    Morgans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Morgans


    RichieLawlor wrote: »
    Knowing what we know about BB i wouldnt back him with your money to win a hennessy

    Why would this be?

    Off 150, he would be a 4/7 shot. Would be a question of Ruby not falling off him, like Sam.


  • #38
    RichieLawlor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,873 ✭✭✭RichieLawlor


    Morgans wrote: »
    Why would this be?

    Off 150, he would be a 4/7 shot. Would be a question of Ruby not falling off him, like Sam.

    in Rubys own words, he doesnt like fences. Nicholls also said this. You wont see BB over fences again imo.


  • #39
    Morgans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Morgans


    RichieLawlor wrote: »
    in Rubys own words, he doesnt like fences. Nicholls also said this. You wont see BB over fences again imo.

    I cant see any reason why he should be put back over fences. But it doesnt mean that he wouldnt be amazingly well handicapped if they persevered. Its strange, I cant think of another horse that Nicholls kept hurdling. But if Denman carried 11-12 to beat him off 10-00 in a Hennessy it would dwarf all his other achievements.


  • #40
    redorblack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 82 ✭✭redorblack


    I thought Diamond Harry could lower Big Bucks colors so it cost me to not question again BB, as the king of the stayers, no reason to put him back chasing.


  • #41
    RichieLawlor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,873 ✭✭✭RichieLawlor


    Morgans wrote: »
    I cant see any reason why he should be put back over fences. But it doesnt mean that he wouldnt be amazingly well handicapped if they persevered. Its strange, I cant think of another horse that Nicholls kept hurdling. But if Denman carried 11-12 to beat him off 10-00 in a Hennessy it would dwarf all his other achievements.

    They interviewed him after the long walk and he said chasing wasnt on the agenda. He also said they bought him for chasing but he didnt take to it


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  • #42
    Morgans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Morgans


    RichieLawlor wrote: »
    They interviewed him after the long walk and he said chasing wasnt on the agenda. He also said they bought him for chasing but he didnt take to it

    Yes. Again, I know this. Im asking what if? It deserves a new thread really, but if he was in any other stable, maybe a greater effort would be made. He really is made for chasing and there are very few that Nicholls doesnt develop into chasers.


  • #43
    Whyno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Whyno


    Anyone catch the Stewart interview on ATR earlier today. No plans for chasing in the future but they are planning an assault on the big summer hurdles in france after his successful defence of the world hurdle :D


  • #44
    tablets
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭tablets


    AP is the best imo by a long way,ruby's a great jockey as well but i think if AP was on horses of equal ability to those of ruby or any other top jock he would win 9 out of 10 races,he will never be the most stylish but he'll always be the greatest!


  • #45
    Morgans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Morgans


    I think the very best would get to the top ok, but Ruby definitely had doors open for him. You still have to be good enough to take them. Joe Tizzard was once the preferred choice for the Nicholls yard. He failed despite having the opportunities. Sometimes the nepotism isnt always bad. Tommy Carberry has sired three of the best jockeys riding these days. He must have been giving them great advise when they were younger.

    I think you aren't far wrong about Ruby's personality, other anecdotes that I've heard back up you impressions. Not that I would jump to conclusions on that.


  • #46
    fr wishy washy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 882 ✭✭✭fr wishy washy


    Ruby's personality doesn't come into this argument imho,on ability to get a horse settled & jumping in a race he has no peers.I can't fault him in a finish either.The reason he rides so many good horses is because of his ability-simple as.Some Irish trainers have him on standby if available in the Grade 1's eg Paul Nolan.


  • #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,497 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    fr wishy washy wrote: »
    Ruby's personality doesn't come into this argument imho,on ability to get a horse settled & jumping in a race he has no peers.I can't fault him in a finish either.The reason he rides so many good horses is because of his ability-simple as.Some Irish trainers have him on standby if available in the Grade 1's eg Paul Nolan.

    Of course the personality doesn't come into it, McCoy is better than Ruby overall though :D The reason he rides so many good horses has more to do with the dominance of Nicholls for the last few years really.


  • #48
    joconnor59
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20 ✭joconnor59


    good horses make good jockeys if you getting the chances and doors are opened for you
    you have a better chance of reaching the top its unfair to compair mccoy to ruby ..but in the last 20yrs mcoy has to be the best the winners he has rode he has done it all he has nothing to prove..alot of rubys winners are armchair rides.. there is alot of other jocks out there never got the chance to prove how good they were.. doors never opened for them its very unfair to compare jocks as each have a different style and hunger to win.. but the best they has been in the last 50 years nh jockeys are martin moloney pat taffee and tony mccoy..for determination and horsemanship...


  • #49
    UrbanSea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    Morgans wrote: »
    I think the very best would get to the top ok, but Ruby definitely had doors open for him. You still have to be good enough to take them. Joe Tizzard was once the preferred choice for the Nicholls yard. He failed despite having the opportunities. Sometimes the nepotism isnt always bad. Tommy Carberry has sired three of the best jockeys riding these days. He must have been giving them great advise when they were younger.

    I think you aren't far wrong about Ruby's personality, other anecdotes that I've heard back up you impressions. Not that I would jump to conclusions on that.

    Tommy is to stand at Coolmore's NH stud at the end of this year alongside Yeats and Vinnie Roe.
    I can never answer this question. Whoever said AP needs to get out of John Joe's is right. How much money must JP be losing?


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