Wear a burqa - face a €750 fine

philologos · 08-01-2010 07:42PM

Morlar wrote: »

No it's not.

They aren't free to express their faith as they see fit. Wearing a burqa is one of the means of doing so.

twinytwo: Are you suggesting that Saudi Arabia should be our standard of how to deal with religion?

speedboatchase wrote: »

Grr, is there any common ground here? I agree that it shouldn't be banned but can the Islam defenders here find a problem with asking someone to remember a burqa to show photo identification?

Very easily accomodated. Get the woman to show her face to another woman police officer in private. In airports they do this by taking women with burqas to a side room.

sock puppet · 08-01-2010 07:42PM

twinytwo wrote: »

there in lies the problem... they come to non islamic counrties and demand freedom of religion etc etc... now what do u think would happen if i went to some of the islamic countries and tried to set up a catholic church?...

Ah so becoming a fundamentalist police state would solve all our problems. Got it.

twinytwo · 08-01-2010 07:47PM

sock puppet wrote: »

Ah so becoming a fundamentalist police state would solve all our problems. Got it.

good man yourself ...:rolleyes:

Some people like yourself dont get it... All this multicultural bs dosent work... it never has and never will. Just look at france or england etc.

Lone Stone · 08-01-2010 07:51PM

I remmeber years ago i was in a que and i was in my teens i think at the time and i turned around and saw a women in the full burga shebang all black i had to look like 5 time's cause at the time id no idea wtf i was looking at. Thought it was the grim reaper or some ****.

But anyway i agree with the frenchie's.
Frankly they can easily express there religious belief's in other way's.
No need to hide your face in public unless your a minger.

sock puppet · 08-01-2010 07:51PM

twinytwo wrote: »

good man yourself ...:rolleyes:

Some people like yourself dont get it... All this multicultural bs dosent work... it never has and never will. Just look at france or england or any other country .

Well I'm an atheist in this predominantly Catholic country so should I be shipped off somewhere else? Never has? Are you sure? you are aware that there are many peaceful countries in the world where people all follow different religions? Yeah look at England. Catholics and Protestants now live in harmont. "Multi-culturalism bs" seems to habe worked there.

hopalong85 · 08-01-2010 08:00PM

SprostonGreen wrote: »

Proper order too, fcuking savages.

Is this s$it really acceptable?

twinytwo · 08-01-2010 08:02PM

sock puppet wrote: »

Well I'm an atheist in this predominantly Catholic country so should I be shipped off somewhere else? Never has? Are you sure? you are aware that there are many peaceful countries in the world where people all follow different religions? Yeah look at England. Catholics and Protestants now live in harmont. "Multi-culturalism bs" seems to habe worked there.

Again you miss the point ... its easy to say catholics and prodestants live in harmony.. what about NI?... or the numerous riots and flag burnings that have happened in england.. or the riots in france

southsiderosie · 08-01-2010 08:09PM

This whole debate about a burqa is ridiculous. There are very few women who wear them outside of Afghanistan and parts of Pakistan. Even in Turkey, a Muslim country where many women wear hijab, it is startling to see a woman in a burqa or niqab. And yes, there is a difference, and the difference is significant.

Most Muslim women in France don't even wear hijab, must less burqas - and the state has already banned hijabs in public schools. At the time that law was proposed, there were just over 1,200 cases of schoolchildren wearing headscarves - out of a student population of over 9 million (see "Veil" by Christian Joppke).

The French would be better off dealing with the high unemployment and social deprivation within the banlieues, rather than passing inflammatory legislation that in reality is relevant to very few people beyond self-congratulatory politicians.

mardybumbum · 08-01-2010 08:11PM

Jakkass wrote: »

They aren't free to express their faith as they see fit.

So If I were to go around and stone homosexuals to death but made sure people knew it was an expression of my christian faith, that would be ok with you?
I doubt it somehow.

philologos · 08-01-2010 08:14PM

mardybumbum wrote: »

So If I were to go around and stone homosexuals to death but made sure people knew it was an expression of my christian faith, that would be ok with you?
I doubt it somehow.

1) Stoning anyone to death is not a part of Christian faith as a part of the New Covenant (Jesus & Apostles).
2) Interfering with other peoples freedoms, including that of life is of course is where the line ends.

mardybumbum · 08-01-2010 08:17PM

Jakkass wrote: »

1) Stoning anyone to death is not a part of Christian faith as a part of the New Covenant (Jesus & Apostles).

And wearing a burka is not a requirement to lead a life as a muslim.

ninalucy1985 · 08-01-2010 08:18PM

This disgusts me... my boyfriends family are from karachi altho hes mothers side is irish... hes father and cousin are muslims but he and hes brother are not.
I have seen pics of hes cousins ( who are all married to each other btw ) who all wear them, he himself agrees its a disgrace!!!

Some women love wearing them, apparently it depends on their husband tho..
In response to the woman who wore one whilst driving a car? That should be illegal!!!! If I was to drive a car with for example a towel over my head with only my eyes showing I would be pulled. Its a disgrace..

I regularly see a girl of about 21 walking to the local shopping centre here in limerick wearing one she walks behind a 50 year old man ( obv her husband!) sick!! My partner agrees with me 1000% on this, I do say to myself alot..If i was in those girls positions I would love to be free...you think as soon as they come here they would do their own thing.. but they dont, they stick to their religon and 'rules' .. Brain washed.

Sorry if I have offended anybody with the above.
iSlam... yeah sure.. a Religon to benefit men!!!!!!

philologos · 08-01-2010 08:19PM

mardybumbum wrote: »

And wearing a burka is not a requirement to lead a life as a muslim.

Does it deprive anothers rights? If so, I don't see any issue why one should not wear a burqa legally apart from the fact that some people don't like Islam.

twinytwo · 08-01-2010 08:26PM

there were arson attacks on catholic churchs in malaysia by muslims recently because the catholic paper used the word allah in a christian context even though allah is a arabic word and not exclussive to islam...

ninalucy1985 · 08-01-2010 08:27PM

Jakkass wrote: »

Does it deprive anothers rights? If so, I don't see any issue why one should not wear a burqa legally apart from the fact that some people don't like Islam.

You can be arrested and jailed for wearing a cross around your neck or carrying one on you in any part of pakistan etc..

You also must be completely covered up before you can do so !

They dont do so for us.... so why should we here?

08-01-2010 08:30PM

Jakkass wrote: »

They aren't free to express their faith as they see fit. Wearing a burqa is one of the means of doing so.

Of course they are. They are allowed attend Mosques to pray without any threat of intervention, much in the same way Christians can go to church or Jews to synagogues.

The wearing of a Burqa has negative connotations, including the treatment of women as second class citizens. You need only look to the areas where the Burqa is most common to see that it is a symbol of oppression.

If its a case of balancing "religious freedom" and human rights, I'd rather the latter wins out.

mardybumbum · 08-01-2010 08:32PM

Jakkass wrote: »

Does it deprive anothers rights? .

Are you being serious ffs.
Think about the women who are forced to wear them. :mad:

Your argument is a failure for the following reason.

I have taken a quote from the bible; " If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives " and used it as justification for stoning homosexuals.
I am afterall expressing my Christianity.

You came along and mentioned "out of context", "the new covenant", "interfering with peoples freedoms" blah blah blah.

However when the command in the Qur'an to dress moderately is taken out of context and used as justification to force women to wear those gastly burkas, you dont have a problem with this.

Can you not see the double standard here?

twinytwo · 08-01-2010 08:33PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KWeDHEPvuU

makes valid enough point

philologos · 08-01-2010 08:33PM

ninalucy1985 wrote: »

You can be arrested and jailed for wearing a cross around your neck or carrying one on you in any part of pakistan etc..

You also must be completely covered up before you can do so !

They dont do so for us.... so why should we here?

We have to aspire for better rather than getting into childish arguments about what rights people have in Islamic country X. We should aim for higher standards.

I personally don't buy the whole anti-Islam crusade. This isn't just about Islam, it's about religious rights in general. If this happens, more people will start to regard peoples right to faith as dispensable.

Mike 1972 · 08-01-2010 08:38PM

Kipperhell wrote: »

If you want to be pedantic about it go ahead but your precision is not actually changing the reality of the issues surrounding such religion/cultural clothing.

It is hardly pedantic to point out there is a hell of a difference between a Hijab and a Burqu hell even up to about 20 years ago there were very few middle aged or older Irish women who would be seen outdoors without head covering.

mardybumbum wrote: »

Are you being serious ffs.
Think about the women who are forced to wear them. :mad:

There is very little one can legally force an adult woman in a European country to do.

twinytwo wrote: »

there were arson attacks on catholic churchs in malaysia by muslims recently because the catholic paper used the word allah in a christian context even though allah is a arabic word and not exclussive to islam...

A few posts back you were suggesting one couldnt set up a Catholic church in a "Muslim country". Did the one you now admit exists in Malaysia just pop out of the ground one day ?

There have been arson attacks on Roman Catholic churches in Northern Ireland too. There have also been attacks on Protestant churches (There is no "d" in Protestant BTW) in both NI and the Republic.

Do you really expect people to take you seriously posting such half-literate misinformed drivel?

ninalucy1985 · 08-01-2010 08:44PM

If I went to iraq/Iran and I tried to walk the streets in a catholic protest what would you think would happen me?
Iw ould not be here today..
Here is pics of a protest held by muslims in London recently !
The sign ' YOURE 9/11 IS NEXT' gets to me the most.

mardybumbum · 08-01-2010 08:46PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

There is very little one can legally force an adult woman in a European country to do.

I wasnt referring to legal enforcement.

twinytwo · 08-01-2010 08:48PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

There is very little one can legally force an adult woman in a European country to do.

A few posts back you were suggesting one couldnt set up a Catholic church in a "Muslim country". Did the one you now admit exists in Malaysia just pop out of the ground one day ?

There have been arson attacks on Roman Catholic churches in Northern Ireland too. There have also been attacks on Protestant churches (There is no "d" in Protestant BTW) in both NI and the Republic.

Do you really expect people to take you seriously posting such half-literate misinformed drivel?

wow i hit a wrong key .. your awesome:rolleyes:

also if your going to make reference to something i said you might try to get it right.
No where did i say you couldnt set up a church

no it just proves my point.. an arabic word was used so they burn down churches.. Why not tell me what do you think would happen if someone wanted a catholic church in iran?

philologos · 08-01-2010 08:48PM

ninalucy1985 - so you think we should make Muslims' lives a lot more difficult in return even if they have nothing to do with what happens in Pakistan?

Also there are RC churches in Iran twinytwo. Only difference is they are forbidden from evangelising.

ninalucy1985 · 08-01-2010 08:53PM

Jakkass wrote: »

We have to aspire for better rather than getting into childish arguments about what rights people have in Islamic country X. We should aim for higher standards.

I personally don't buy the whole anti-Islam crusade. This isn't just about Islam, it's about religious rights in general. If this happens, more people will start to regard peoples right to faith as dispensable.

it is not anti Islam, I posted a earlier post explaining my partner is from karachi, pakistan.. Hes father and cousin are muslim.

They have explained to me that a husband will order a wife to wear this to show other men that she belongs to him and him alone so that no other male may see her face and that they strongly disagree with it.

This is the sole purpose of the burqa. Which is what I do not agree with.
I could not give less of a ****e what they do with the rest of their time to be honest, so long as it does not interfere with myself or others close to me.
There are parts of pakistan that ban those burqa's on women, its the hard core control freaks who make their women wear them.
There is no way they are comfortable for women and are degrading I have spent enough time around muslims to know this.

mardybumbum · 08-01-2010 08:56PM

ninalucy1985 wrote: »

They have explained to me that a husband will order a wife to wear this to show other men that she belongs to him and him alone so that no other male may see her face and that they strongly disagree with it.

This is the type of enforcement I was referring to Mike.

I also see that your from castlebar.
Hello.

ninalucy1985 · 08-01-2010 08:56PM

Jakkass wrote: »

ninalucy1985 - so you think we should make Muslims' lives a lot more difficult in return even if they have nothing to do with what happens in Pakistan?

Also there are RC churches in Iran twinytwo. Only difference is they are forbidden from evangelising.

Yikes,
No.. Everyday muslims that follow the karan properly no.
Muslims who require their women to wear burqa's and protest about europes holocaust coming next and beheading people who imsult islam.
Them muslims yes, **** off home. They are trying to push THEIR beliefs which are not muslim, they are twisted versions of the karan.

'i.e... suicide bombers.. .. .. kill 20 christains and there will be 7 virgins waiting for you in heaven'

These 'muslims' should not be recignised as muslims.

Islam when followed correctly, no problem with it.

Mike 1972 · 08-01-2010 09:00PM

mardybumbum wrote: »

I wasnt referring to legal enforcement.

In that case there are people in France and other countries called "the Police" you might have heard of them................ :rolleyes:

twinytwo wrote: »

No where did i say you couldnt set up a church.....Why not tell me what do you think would happen if someone wanted a catholic church in iran?

Not only are you contradicting yourself you are now confusing the all predominantely Islamic countries with Iran ? (Mosques in Franco's Spain anyone ???) Oh and someone else mentioned Iraq where a quick google search shows there are actually fifteen currently active Catholic dioceses and Roman Catholics comprise 1% of the population.

southsiderosie · 08-01-2010 09:04PM

All of these "we can't do it there, so they shouldn't be able to do it here" posts are missing the point. NONE of the countries in question are liberal democracies, which by their very nature, impose limits on what the state can order private citizens to do. That includes dictating what they can wear, or how they can practice their religion in their private lives. So of course people can do things in Ireland that they cannot do in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia - and thank god for that!

I'd also add that restricting the behavior of women, or dictating what is appropriate attire for women in public is not limited to Muslims. There have been big debates about this in Brooklyn lately, since the city put down (and later removed) a bike lane through an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood. Apparently some people weren't happy about women buzzing past on bikes wearing shorts, even on a public street.

philologos · 08-01-2010 09:04PM

mardybumbum wrote: »

Are you being serious ffs.
Think about the women who are forced to wear them. :mad:

Many people choose to wear it, as a result we should respect their freedom.

mardybumbum wrote: »

Your argument is a failure for the following reason.

What reason? It's nonsense to suggest that most are even forced to.

mardybumbum wrote: »

I have taken a quote from the bible; " If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives " and used it as justification for stoning homosexuals.
I am afterall expressing my Christianity.

Leviticus is in the Jewish Scriptures, and the death penalty for certain sins was fulfilled by the mercy of Jesus Christ.

mardybumbum wrote: »

You came along and mentioned "out of context", "the new covenant", "interfering with peoples freedoms" blah blah blah.

Yes, it's out of context, and people are free to wear the burqa irrespective of what you think.

mardybumbum wrote: »

However when the command in the Qur'an to dress moderately is taken out of context and used as justification to force women to wear those gastly burkas, you dont have a problem with this.

Do you know what the Qur'an actually says on covering? If so please quote it. The law isn't meant to enforce religious interpretation, but rather to protect freedoms.

mardybumbum wrote: »

Can you not see the double standard here?

No.

Wear a burqa - face a €750 fine

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