John Gormless on Primetime

Alessandra · 08-01-2010 12:51AM

The army? Fair enough the recent flooding warranted help from the defence forces but are you seriously thinking the government should deploy them to shovel sand and grit? How the whole of Dublin had to grind to a standstill over a bit of ice defies logic.

The problem with the country is it is not run like a business. There is no proper management at any level, schools, hospitals and government departments have no proper plans in place for what is essentially a typical winter in many European countries. Is grit too expensive or something? Plenty of people not working already in the country who would probably love to give a hand at doing something meaningful with their time. Leave the army for proper emergencies.

ninebeanrows · 08-01-2010 12:55AM

The fact is all we need is salt and grit and people to throw it all over the pavements and roads in the city and hey presto, problem sorted, seems amazing to think that salt SALT! or lack of is stopping our sitting from moving properly!!

(granted other problems occur due to the bitter freeze but salt would stop alot of stuff from going wrong)

OutlawPete · 08-01-2010 01:02AM

Here'a it is on the RTE Player ..

http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1063707

BluesBerry · 08-01-2010 01:07AM

Fuck You John Gormely Fuck You

Morlar · 08-01-2010 01:08AM

Alessandra wrote: »

The army? Fair enough the recent flooding warranted help from the defence forces but are you seriously thinking the government should deploy them to shovel sand and grit?

If needs be - yes. If councils are not responding properly then yes. It is not just salt/grit there are other things they could be doing too. In 1982 the army were deployed to dig people's homes clear of snow (which they could have been doing for the last few days to people isolated in country areas in particular). They also used army trucks to give people a lift to and from work if memory serves - (though that one could have been during a bus strike). There are areas right now where they could make a huge difference to the impact of this on people. Instead we have gormless on tv teflon don style shirking any and all responsibility and promising nothing substantial.

brianthebard · 08-01-2010 01:13AM

Mrmoe wrote: »

What is the point in having the army out? What exactly can they do that county and city councils cannot? Bringing in the army now is closing the door after the horse has bolted. Actions should have been planned for years before an event like this happens. A central national stockpile of grit/salt should be available for situations like this in conjunction with a national plan of action. This was pretty well predicted so getting to the stage where the army has to be called in is a bit ridiculous. Are the army better equipped to handle ice and snow? Do they have secret hidden bunkers filled with grit and salt? I am just curious about what good they could do.

+1 million to this. RTE/Primetime are very good at finding questions to answers that aren't necessary. There is no reason for the army to be involved. There is very little that they could add to help. But the prime time presenters plead 'But why haven't they been called upon minister?' as if it were a matter of national importance, when really they and their journo friends cooked up the story at lunchtime and it has no connection with reality.

sunnyside · 08-01-2010 01:16AM

gnxx wrote: »

He pointed out that if the emergency committee had met 2 weeks ago at the start of the crisis, then orders would may have been placed for more salt/grit which has a 10 day lead time anyhow.

Gormley the minister for snow -- more like the Minister of No responsiblity.

That's about the only thing that would have helped. They had enough grit for a normal Irish winter. This weather situation was not forseeable. If they had ordered the amount of grit they now need everyone would be shouting at them for "wasting money in a recession because this isn't Siberia, what could we possibly have needed all that salt for". The need for a larger order for next winter is now forseeable.

Shouldn't Noel Dempsey be helping with this? Roads + lack of public transport = job for Dept of Transport. But he's off on holidays.

sunnyside · 08-01-2010 01:21AM

Another reason for getting the army involved is that the public now seem to want them and the Government needs to do things to keep the public happy. I think it would make people feel a bit safer in the same way that having gardai walking around does.

Míshásta · 08-01-2010 01:25AM

I couldn't believe the way Miriam left Gormley off when he wouldn't or couldn't answer straight questions about where responsibility lay in particular situations. He just answered questions that hadn't been asked and then wandered off into generalities and pious platitudes.

He sounded more FF than genuine FFers. Very disappointing. How long are the Greens going to put up with him as their leader.

the long lad · 08-01-2010 01:27AM

I cant believe so many people are against the army being deployed to add manpower. Maybe I missed something, but I dont think we're in the middle of a war or in danger of being invaded.

Yes, i know manpower isn't the big issue, but surely these guys could be deployed to shovel or scrape ice or do whatever is needed for a few days. Equally, lots of people are out of work and could be put to use, but they're already paying the army, so get them out there!!

AKK · 08-01-2010 01:38AM

BluesBerry wrote: »

Fuck You John Gormely Fuck You

eh eh Deputy BluesBerry that is most unparlimentary lanuage.

msg11 · 08-01-2010 02:54AM

Sure we might aswell get the Civil Defence out, can never be too short on man power

Tippex · 08-01-2010 11:36AM

jdivision wrote: »

Why email RTE. Email his department. In fact, why not email him himself:
john.gormley@oireachtas.ie

He was more concerned with not being blamed that doing anything. O'callaghan pulling her punches again.

I already had sent the email

Tippex · 08-01-2010 11:38AM

Mrmoe wrote: »

What is the point in having the army out? What exactly can they do that county and city councils cannot? Bringing in the army now is closing the door after the horse has bolted. Actions should have been planned for years before an event like this happens. A central national stockpile of grit/salt should be available for situations like this in conjunction with a national plan of action. This was pretty well predicted so getting to the stage where the army has to be called in is a bit ridiculous. Are the army better equipped to handle ice and snow? Do they have secret hidden bunkers filled with grit and salt? I am just curious about what good they could do.

The whole point to what Miriam was saying was that there are people around the country unable to get out and about and with the councils not doing enough (not being able to) especially in rural areas the Army have the transport to be able to help these people.

And the total reasoning in his head that he was putting forward for not using the Army. I'm not really saying that the army should be called upon but the whole way he was justifying not using them. Anyone who hasn't seen it should take a look on RTE player.

MrJetlag · 08-01-2010 11:46AM

I just think its amazing the amount of really catastrophic acts of nature we're having - floods and a big freeze since the greens got into power - coincidence ??

drBill · 08-01-2010 12:04PM

Yes what an utter waste of space and yet another example of how the government treats the citizens. Basically he sat there, made excuses for doing nothing, and declined help on behalf of people who clearly desperately need it.
And this nonsense about the salt shortage. There's more to this than just the bloody salt. You don't need salt to scrape packed ice off dangerous footpaths, or pull cars out of ditches, etc, you need manpower and equipment. But up there in their ivory towers they're totally oblivious to all that and don't particularly care.
All Gormley wants to do is play for time, hunker down until the weather improves again and hope that we all forget how useless they all are.

spurious · 08-01-2010 12:12PM

I remember the army being out in the last big snow - 1982 I think.

Red Alert · 08-01-2010 12:18PM

I think FG were in government the last time there was a big freeze.

He is an embarrassment of a politician, even compared some Fianna Fail'ers, as is his colleague Eamonn Ryan.

mconigol · 08-01-2010 12:22PM

so has anybody discovered who's in charge of de-silting the rivers yet?...think I missed his answer to that one...

hooradiation · 08-01-2010 12:30PM

So, were all upset that a country that for whom extremes of weather like this is very unusual hasn't got stockpiles of salt and grit and.... ahh fuck it.

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!

gnxx · 08-01-2010 12:31PM

mconigol wrote: »

so has anybody discovered who's in charge of de-silting the rivers yet?...think I missed his answer to that one...

No, but we discovered a large number of agencies who are not responsible

mconigol · 08-01-2010 12:44PM

gnxx wrote: »

No, but we discovered a large number of agencies who are not responsible

ah I see, so we'll get there by a process of elimination....right?

also, thought it was interesting that the Minister for Environment, Heritage and Local Government said that it was Kildare co.co. fault for flooding of the Waterways estate in Sallins...would that not leave them wide open to being sued for damages??!

Tony EH · 08-01-2010 12:54PM

It's a glimspe of the problem that surrounds Irish politics. It's the "Everybody, Somebody, Nobody" problem.

"Everybody" is expecting "Somebody" to do something about the siuation. "Somebody" thinks that "Everybody" else is responsible for handling the situation. But, in the end "Nobody" handles the situation and it goes unresolved.

This happens time and time again in Irish political life.

One of the main worries out of that Primetime program, was a statement by some crowd saying that they are "...looking into what action (if any) must be taken."

What action...if any!!!

?

lisbon_lions · 08-01-2010 01:02PM

What really sickened me about his fobbing off last night was the constant speaking of "other nations in the same boat". "But the same is the case in Northern Ireland and in Britain". He made this statement about 4 times. Why, oh why, does he feel the need to use Britain as a yard stick to measure Irelands actions by? If we are comparable to other nations in our lack of effort, then thats all right then? Grow a set Gormless and stand up to the responsibilities demanded of your office and stop shirking your duties!

Tony EH · 08-01-2010 01:03PM

Mrmoe wrote: »

What is the point in having the army out? What exactly can they do that county and city councils cannot? Bringing in the army now is closing the door after the horse has bolted. Actions should have been planned for years before an event like this happens. A central national stockpile of grit/salt should be available for situations like this in conjunction with a national plan of action. This was pretty well predicted so getting to the stage where the army has to be called in is a bit ridiculous. Are the army better equipped to handle ice and snow? Do they have secret hidden bunkers filled with grit and salt? I am just curious about what good they could do.

Bringing the army in would at least offer some sort of practical organisation. A parameter that is seriously lacking in other areas of Irish organisations.

On the issue of salt stockpiles, apparently the North stores x amount of salt each year for such an occasion. The South usually stores the SAME amount, for more roads.

Amazing.

tobsey · 08-01-2010 01:17PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Bringing the army in would at least offer some sort of practical organisation. A parameter that is seriously lacking in other areas of Irish organisations.

On the issue of salt stockpiles, apparently the North stores x amount of salt each year for such an occasion. The South usually stores the SAME amount, for more roads.

Amazing.

Compare the average snowfall in Belfast and Cork and that might give you an idea why.

I didn't see Gormley on Primetime so can't really comment on his perfomance or lack thereof but these are some points i'd make.

First the difference between 1982 and this year is 82 was a big snow, this is a big freeze. People were buried into their homes in 82 which required the army to dig them out. Now the problem is people can't travel because the roads are icy adn the only way to solve that is with salt and grit, no amount of manpower will change that.

Also people are saying the army could be used to shovel ice from the footpaths. To where? Shovel it onto the roads for it to freeze there again?

The county councils are the only people in this country that have any knowledge of dealing with a situation like this. It's not up to ministers to tell them "We're sending in the army!" People have made the valid point that if we had the stockpiles of salt to deal with this situation it would have been blasted as a waste of money. We have no control over the power of nature and if we're going to have sub zero temperatures for a number of weeks then we'll just have to deal with it.

Morlar · 08-01-2010 01:31PM

tobsey wrote: »

we'll just have to deal with it.

Or not as the case may be. There are a lot of people outside of Dublin who ARE snowed in - the army could clear a path to isolated rural houses. They could have made sure Dublin airport was kept open. Even if planes arriving are delayed keeping the runways clear for them to land on at all times would help. When Dublin bus puts their hands in the air the army could have been ferrying people home on key routes after their days work. Even getting people most of the way home would be a help when buses are not running and taxis wont go to certain areas. Little things that could make a big difference, rather than saying 'you will just have to deal with it'. Common sense would go a long way. The gormley/green attitude of 'the lack of response is no ones fault' is bs. Gormley is minister for Local govt yet this is nothing whatsoever to do with him ? Give me a break.

drBill · 08-01-2010 01:35PM

tobsey wrote: »

Also people are saying the army could be used to shovel ice from the footpaths. To where? Shovel it onto the roads for it to freeze there again?

Maybe, or onto the gutter, or at least leave one half of the footpath clean enough to walk on safely. Seeing the elderly and infirm walking in terror and occasionally falling on our main footpaths on the news last night wasn't a bit funny. If you're in your 60s or 70s a fall like that can literally ruin the rest of your life.
And in fairness if you look at countries like Canada/Alaska/etc where they're experts at this I don't think you see them hauling trailer loads of snow out of the cities into landfill or some big snow incinerator. They simply push it aside as best they can to leave a safe (ish) corridor and that's what I'm suggesting here. I did it outside my own house and my elderly neighbours so that we can at least get from our front door into our cars with less risk of falling. The mound of snow left beside that passage isnt doing anyone any harm.

Salt isn't the only weapon against snow and a lack of salt is no excuse to sit there and do nothing about it.

El Siglo · 08-01-2010 01:37PM

We're not short of grit, there's a quarry company in Oldcastle Co. Meath giving out free road grit, all you have to do is drive to the place and collect it. There's about half a dozen companies selling grit at €10 per tonne, one fella in Wicklow has 11,000 tonnes of the stuff! We're not short of grit, we're short of the political will to spend the money. The government is biding its time till the weather improves, nobody wants to spend the money that's really it. We're a fecking Island, there's tonnes of coastal sand which has a high salt content. Gormley, like all politicians is a spineless cunt, simple as that.

edanto · 08-01-2010 02:00PM

By grit, do you mean salted grit for de-icing?

Who is the guy in Wicklow and if you have his contact details it might be an idea to call the Dublin City Council and pass his number on. I'm sure 11,000 tonnes would go a long way, but it's odd that someone would have a stockpile of it.

I didn't see Gormley on Prime Time, but he was pretty bad on Frontline about the flooding. At least someone from the government went on Prime Time, where the hell are the rest of them?

John Gormless on Primetime

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