Global Warming.

Capt'n Midnight · 06-01-2010 10:46PM

Adonis Panicky Villager wrote: »

Kill the poor to feed the hungry????

Efficiency and progress is ours once more
Now that we have the Neutron bomb
It's nice and quick and clean and gets things done
Away with excess enemy
But no less value to property
No sense in war but perfect sense at home:

The sun beams down on a brand new day
No more welfare tax to pay
Unsightly slums gone up in flashing light
Jobless millions whisked away
At last we have more room to play
All systems go to kill the poor tonight

Gonna
Kill kill kill kill Kill the poor:Tonight

Behold the sparkle of champagne
The crime rate's gone
Feel free again
O' life's a dream with you, Miss Lily White
Jane Fonda on the screen today
Convinced the liberals it's okay
So let's get dressed and dance away the night

While they:
Kill kill kill kill Kill the poor:Tonight

AARRRGH · 06-01-2010 10:53PM

If we have a warm winter they'd say it's because of global warming...
If we have a cold winter they say it's because of global warming...

You have to ask yourself why are so many business people and environment scientists so passionate about global warming. I'll give you a hint: $$$.

Dudess · 06-01-2010 10:57PM

Karsini wrote: »

I'm not saying that we aren't destroying the planet but I think it's exaggerated - groups are too quick to throw the climate change card when something unexpected happens. Mary Robinson tried to blame the November floods on it when, lets face it, lots of new properties were built in flood plains over the last decade.

Yeah, and it's not as if there weren't floods long before global warming theories abounded.

I'm somewhere in the middle too: I can't stand the aggressively anti-green lobby but I equally have no time for the silliness of blaming any harsh weather on humans. The winter of '63, for instance, was a lot harsher than this one.

philologos · 06-01-2010 10:58PM

AARRRGH, it also means energy independence from the Middle East for Western countries. I have a feeling that that is a big driving force too.

Capt'n Midnight · 06-01-2010 10:59PM

junkyard wrote: »

And are we to blame for dinosaurs becoming extinct too and all the other extinct species that lived on the planet? What about all the new species of animals and insect that are being discovered? This planet is evolving as are we as human beings, we'd be still in the sea or swinging off trees if it wasn't for evolution, it's time to adapt not pay taxes because the bottom line is money.

The bottom line is not money. It's good business sense to harvest now generate profit and then invest the money elsewhere.

Humans are the one species that are not restricted by the energy or other resources in a local eco-system as they will just import them form elsewhere while they asset strip.

We've seen it with the whales, Japanese trying to maximise value form old ships . who cares if all the whales die, the money made can be used elsewhere. Same story with fish a esp. Tuna and Krill. Many fisheries have been wiped out because politicians and fishermen arguing about how much fish are needed to support jobs instead of listening to scientists who tell them the maximum amount of fish that can be removed in a good year without causing the population to crash.

We are discovering more species , but usually in areas that are being exploited for the resources that the species need to survive.

Not all species have an equal right to be protected. The Mediterranean sea has dried out numerous times , 10,000 years ago there were many freshwater shellfish over Hungary in an ancient lake.

And yes there was an unfortunate incident with a microwave oven and a flux capacitor back in 2143 , the result of the feedback loop reverbratd back 65, million years

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 06-01-2010 11:05PM

All the carbon taxes collected from around the world are going towards building several giant Mr.Burns style sun-blockers. Keep it under your hat though.

opinion guy · 06-01-2010 11:07PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

And yes there was an unfortunate incident with a microwave oven and a flux capacitor back in 2143 , the result of the feedback loop reverbratd back 65, million years

I thought it was a toaster ???:D

Gotta hand it to the polititians thou - they have a meeting in Copenhagen in December and they've apparently solved global warming already. Who says all they do is talk ?:)

06-01-2010 11:12PM

SoupyNorman wrote: »

The human race really is just like a virus.

yeah well.....your a towel

epgc3fyqirnbsx · 06-01-2010 11:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

yeah well.....your a towel

wanna get hiiigh?

4leto · 06-01-2010 11:30PM

Its snowing right across the northern hemisphere, Copenhagen Global warming summit has been an unprecedented success, it has somehow halted global warming in its track. Snow is fun for a week or so, but enough is enough, so please back to global warming now. I want everyone to run the tumble dryer empty for the next 6 weeks.

jd007 · 06-01-2010 11:33PM

Cian92 wrote: »

I for one hope the ice caps, are benefitting from this cold snap. Now that it's cold you don't hear anything about this global warming shit.

Well I for one welcome our ice cap overlords.

andrew · 06-01-2010 11:36PM

If I hear another person say 'SO MUCH FOR GLOBAL WARMING LOL' in relation to the current weather I'm going to have a rage aneurysm.

star.chaser · 06-01-2010 11:41PM

Milky Moo wrote: »

Global warming causes extremes of all weather.

could be climate change completely unconnected to carbon omissions. who knows, maybe this kind of weather change happens naturally every few hundred/thousand years? :rolleyes:

philologos · 06-01-2010 11:41PM

Responding and putting forward your point of view might be more useful to those who are genuinely doubting this andrew.

opinion guy · 06-01-2010 11:42PM

andrew wrote: »

If I hear another person say 'SO MUCH FOR GLOBAL WARMING LOL' in relation to the current weather I'm going to have a rage aneurysm.

I wouldn't do that mate, the ambulance might have a hard job getting to you what with the cold snap and all - tsch...so much for global warming lol :rolleyes:

epgc3fyqirnbsx · 06-01-2010 11:42PM

So much for global warming LOL

Macha · 06-01-2010 11:47PM

I posted this in Green Issues but unfortunately it looks like it needs to be posted here as well:

The difference between weather and climate:

Weather is the mix of events that happen each day in our atmosphere including temperature, rainfall and humidity.

Climate in your place on the globe controls the weather where you live. Climate is the average weather pattern in a place over many years.

Let's hope that those who wish to bestow upon us their opinions on climate change at least bother to learn the difference between the two.

Now you can return to your ranting.

andrew · 06-01-2010 11:55PM

Jakkass wrote: »

Charco - Climate change occurs throughout history. I think we should be aiming to find alternatives to oil and other things, but I am not sure at present as to whether or not global warming is occurring. I mean wasn't it the point that the co2 was removing the ozone layer, and warming the earth, melting the polar ice caps?

No, this was never/isn't the point. CO2 is thought to cause global warming because it is a greenhouse gas. CO2 does not remove the ozone layer (it is not a CFC. Incidentally, CFC's are also greenhouse gases).

These are things that we can and do need to change. The OP is right to be asking whether or not global warming is down to humans, and we have to ask whether the warming trend is reversing or not.

A significant amount of scientific evidence points to a general warming trend. It is because of this that people saying the quote below annoy me. A cold snap, or even a relatively cold year, does not a trend break. Is global warming man made? I dunno. I'd be the first to remind people that correlation does not imply causation. However, I don't think that it is useful to say that it isn't man made. Even if it isn't, by assuming it is we either at best a) mitigate global warming or at worst b) make the transition toward more sustainable energy consumption before we run out of oil.

So much for global warming LOL

http://mundobesteirol.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/fuuuuuu.jpg

Cian92 · 06-01-2010 11:56PM

Don't get me wrong, I'm against cutting down rainforests and for protecting the environment, keeping it litter free etc. But this "global warming" it will be cold one year, warm another. It's just the weather. Is is not man made, really by trying to fix it, we are just interfering with nature. Jeremy Clarkson had a great piece in his new book about the Kyoto agreement, he reckons really we are only delaying this temperature rise by six years. It is just an excuse to tax us. Hitting those who want to drive a big engined car.

Turtwig · 07-01-2010 12:01AM

Cian92 wrote: »

But this "global warming" it will be cold one year, warm another. It's just the weather. Is is not man made

So is acid rain, but that is exacerbated by human causes. Why can't the entire planet weather be influenced by us?

philologos · 07-01-2010 12:04AM

taconnol: The only ranting I'm seeing is coming from those who suggest people are wrong to have legitimate doubts about this.

Macha · 07-01-2010 12:06AM

Jakkass wrote: »

taconnol: The only ranting I'm seeing is coming from those who suggest people are wrong to have legitimate doubts about this.

You're obviously not looking very hard.

Oh and while we're at it, archaeologists still haven't found the missing link between humans and apes. Who's up for replacing lessons in evolution with creationism is school. Who's with me?

philologos · 07-01-2010 12:14AM

How about trying to help out with clarifying the misconceptions by citing evidence, while respecting that there is probably some reason why people are becoming unsure about this?

I support energy independence and changing before the oil runs out, I also am concerned about recycling, and other issues. I'm absolutely agnostic on global warming though.

Macha · 07-01-2010 12:18AM

Jakkass wrote: »

How about trying to help out with clarifying the misconceptions by citing evidence, while respecting that there is probably some reason why people are becoming unsure about this?

I thought I was helping by pointing out the difference between climate and weather? It doesn't help when people don't even understand these two basic concepts. For my troubles I got a smart reply.

No surprise, this is AH. But you must be crazy if you think I'm going to waste my time arguing about AGW in this forum when there is already been more than enough debate about it in Green Issues for anyone who is genuinely interested in more than just having a good old rant.

Jakkass wrote: »

I support energy independence and changing before the oil runs out, I also am concerned about recycling, and other issues. I'm absolutely agnostic on global warming though.

Good for you. But climate change is happening whether you believe it's humans that are causing it or not.

andrew · 07-01-2010 12:20AM

Jakkass wrote: »

How about trying to help out with clarifying the misconceptions by citing evidence, while respecting that there is probably some reason why people are becoming unsure about this?

I support energy independence and changing before the oil runs out, I also am concerned about recycling, and other issues. I'm absolutely agnostic on global warming though.

Even if people are unsure, does should this mean that we act as though it is not happening?

The_B_Man · 07-01-2010 12:22AM

taconnol wrote: »

You're obviously not looking very hard.

Oh and while we're at it, archaeologists still haven't found the missing link between humans and apes. Who's up for replacing lessons in evolution with creationism is school. Who's with me?

Eh, they have found the missing link!!

Have you not heard of the underground shape-shifting vampire lizard people? and in case you think i'm joking, look up a very serious and sane man called David Icke!

pfft, missing link! :rolleyes:

philologos · 07-01-2010 12:26AM

andrew and tacconol: By helping out, I mean helping to explain the current events in the light of global warming. That's a reasonable thing to ask of rather than looking down at people for questioning what you're advocating.

I mean I had thought that CO2 as a greenhouse gas was facilitating global warming.

I mean given my viewpoint and belief, I am fairly adamant that we should be stewards of this world, but there has been a precadent of questioning for nearly 3 years on this issue. More and more people are becoming skeptical, and others have promoted viewpoints involving sunspot activity. Why is this? Bear in mind I am quite interested in becoming convinced of your point of view.

My name is URL · 07-01-2010 12:26AM

Jakkass wrote: »

I'm absolutely agnostic on global warming though.

Say's the Jesus guy...

=p

philologos · 07-01-2010 12:30AM

My name is URL wrote: »

Say's the Jesus guy...

=p

Indeed. I actually do believe in protecting this world, and people being stewards of it as a result of being such a Jesus guy.

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for an explanation for why this weather is compatible with global warming, in the same way I don't think it is unreasonable for people to ask about my belief in Jesus.

Do you think I've been ignoring / snubbing peoples objections to my beliefs in the same way? I want people to understand why I hold the beliefs I do, and I think tacconol and andrew should want to help people to understand this from their point of view instead of snubbing it off.

Turtwig · 07-01-2010 12:38AM

Jakkass wrote: »

/QUOTE]

I mean I had thought that CO2 as a greenhouse gas was facilitating global warming.

It is a GHG, the most influential though is actually water vapour.

More and more people are becoming skeptical, and others have promoted viewpoints involving sunspot activity

Skepticism is good. In fact I encourage it. Ill thought out or strawman skepticism isn't.

No one can deny that the sun influences the climate.There are fews things to note here.

The first is that oceans retain heat and release it slowly. (This is why for example Ireland's climate change is predicted to happen slower than Eastern's Europe's.) There is generally a ten year lag between an increase in radiation from the sun and the earth warming as a result of it.

The second is the sun grows through cycles and our sun this year had an unusually quiet cycle. In fact some were predicting a phenomen known as Maunder Minimum that can lead to a mini ice age because sunspot activity was so low. It appears though that the sun has kicked off into it's cycle now.

The most important thing here to note is that the last 40 years of warming (the 10 warmest years on record occurred in the last 15 years btw) does not even correlate with activity from the sun. Leaving proponents of the that particular theory in fuzzy ground.
Yes there are still physical mechanisms from the sun that we do not fully understand but we cannot reasonably say the sun has primarily influenced the warming trend at all.

Global Warming.

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