Dublin Bus Network Map

KC61 · 18-12-2009 01:00PM #1

A new Dublin Bus network map has been released, using the spider map style employed by TfL. First impressions are very good I have to say - it's fairly clear and easy to follow. A major step forward in terms of passenger information.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Route-Network-Diagram/

Dublin Bus is pleased to advise customers that a spider diagram of the Dublin Bus Network across the Greater Dublin Area is now available in our Head Office, 59 Upper O’Connell Street, Dublin 1 and to download as a PDF here (http://www.dublinbus.ie/PageFiles/2814/NetworkDiagram.pdf). Customers should note that due to the level of detail included the map is best printed to A3 if possible.

Rawr · 18-12-2009 01:08PM

Wow. Not bad at all.
Fair play on DB for finally making this.

With a little effort, they could have probably done this years ago. But it exists now, and that's what matters.

devnull · 18-12-2009 01:39PM

That is pretty good, and is exactly the kind of map we have needed for a while, whilst there is still a lot of work for DB to do to have anywhere near the kind of information that is needed throughout the city, this along with the stops on maps feature is a good start and big step forward, but there are still many more to be taken.

Cookie_Monster · 18-12-2009 01:59PM

That's pretty good actually.

That said still no recognition of the fact that the one 7B goes to Cherrywood.
Though the depot still deny this too.

loyatemu · 18-12-2009 02:01PM

its pretty good, though it does give the somewhat false impression that you can get anywhere in the city by following the pretty interconnecting lines (you can but only if you've got all day). In reality many of the routes are very infrequent - perhaps this could be indicated in some way (dotted lines for anything with a less-than 20 mins frequency maybe). There's also no sign of the X routes.

Getting parochial I note that while major destinations such as "Captains Hill" and "Newgrove Cross" are listed on page 2, Greystones and Kilcoole are not.

KC61 · 18-12-2009 02:07PM

loyatemu wrote: »

its pretty good, though it does give the somewhat false impression that you can get anywhere in the city by following the pretty interconnecting lines (you can but only if you've got all day). In reality many of the routes are very infrequent - perhaps this could be indicated in some way (dotted lines for anything with a less-than 20 mins frequency maybe). There's also no sign of the X routes.

Getting parochial I note that while major destinations such as "Captains Hill" and "Newgrove Cross" are listed on page 2, Greystones and Kilcoole are not.

I think you have to bear in mind that it is a map not a timetable. I would think that dotted lines would only confuse the user.

It does specifically say at the top left that it does not include Xpresso and Nitelink routes on the map - I suspect they may be planning separate guides for those.

The index could do with some improvement, I would agree.

Cookie_Monster · 18-12-2009 02:19PM

Not strictly related to the map but how did they come up with those letters for the stops in town.

What a mess of confusing mumbo jumbo

KC61 · 18-12-2009 02:25PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Not strictly related to the map but how did they come up with those letters for the stops in town.

What a mess of confusing mumbo jumbo

It's not actually when you think of it:

In each area the second letter is sequentially lettered A, B, C, D etc.

The first letter refers to the geographical area, so you have:
Parnell Square - P
O'Connell Street - O
Trinity College - C
Nassau Street - N
St Stephen's Green - S
Aston Quay (and south quays) - A
Eden Quay (and north quays) - E

So you get PA - Stop A at Parnell Square

It's a new way of thinking and it's worked pretty well in London.

Cookie_Monster · 18-12-2009 02:30PM

Yeah but if you don't know the names of places it meaningless regardless

Should use letter number combo, be easier.

Why is there no differenciation between northbound southbound westbound and eastbound busstops in general, that would be more useful

KC61 · 18-12-2009 03:30PM

Just to expand on the city centre bus stops - there are more detailed maps online of each of the areas at:

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/City-Centre-Bus-Stops/

Click onto one of the areas and you will get a more detailed map with the stops highlighted.

loyatemu · 18-12-2009 03:39PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Yeah but if you don't know the names of places it meaningless regardless

Should use letter number combo, be easier.

It sounds like a reasonable system to me - you decide where you want to go (so long as its not Greystones or Kilcoole), check the index to see which stop you need, and then check the map to see where it is. Simple enough.

tom payne · 18-12-2009 04:58PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Should use letter number combo, be easier.

Do you not think it might get confusion to have a letter number combo for the stop codes when they use letter number combos on the buses?

"catch the 27c from 5d, or you might want to walk to Parnell Square and catch the 13a from 12g"

Seems like that would be more confusing to me...

Metrobest · 18-12-2009 05:39PM

KC61 wrote: »

A new Dublin Bus network map has been released, using the spider map style employed by TfL. First impressions are very good I have to say - it's fairly clear and easy to follow. A major step forward in terms of passenger information.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Route-Network-Diagram/

The map looks absolutely horrendous to me and more confusing than ever. Mutton cannot be dressed as lamb. Until somebody sits down and sorts out Dublin Bus's medieval route network, there is no point wasting tens of thousands of euros on graphic design consultants creating maps that will have no utility for anybody except Dublin Bus management who will claim that they have now 'done something'. Still, good to know that Dublin Bus is still good at wasting money, even in a recession some things never change....

KC61 · 18-12-2009 06:05PM

I think that you could wait and wait and wait to produce a map.

There is a basis for going forward now, which presumably can be updated fairly easily.

People have given out for ages here and on other forums about no online map - therefore I think it is something that is needed and I fundamentally have to disagree with you about it being wasteful.

Spider maps are easy to follow and I have yet to see a clearer method of depicting the network.

The network review will follow next year but the improvement in information has to start somewhere. This is in my view a big step forward in that context.

ad hoc · 18-12-2009 06:50PM

Metrobest wrote: »

The map looks absolutely horrendous to me and more confusing than ever. Mutton cannot be dressed as lamb. Until somebody sits down and sorts out Dublin Bus's medieval route network, there is no point wasting tens of thousands of euros on graphic design consultants creating maps that will have no utility for anybody except Dublin Bus management who will claim that they have now 'done something'. Still, good to know that Dublin Bus is still good at wasting money, even in a recession some things never change....

Bah! Humbug!

Metrobest · 18-12-2009 06:51PM

I suppose it is a step forward, on some level. Let's wait and see what the network review brings!

Gurgle · 18-12-2009 06:58PM

Metrobest wrote: »

The map looks absolutely horrendous to me and more confusing than ever. Mutton cannot be dressed as lamb. Until somebody sits down and sorts out Dublin Bus's medieval route network, there is no point wasting tens of thousands of euros on graphic design consultants creating maps that will have no utility for anybody except Dublin Bus management who will claim that they have now 'done something'. Still, good to know that Dublin Bus is still good at wasting money, even in a recession some things never change....

Couldn't agree more.
This is a pile of useless kack.
How hard would it have been to overlay it on a street map ffs?

Cookie_Monster · 18-12-2009 07:05PM

Gurgle wrote: »

How hard would it have been to overlay it on a street map ffs?

a bit too big then to be usefully accurate then...

Vic_08 · 18-12-2009 07:52PM

Gurgle wrote: »

Couldn't agree more.
This is a pile of useless kack.
How hard would it have been to overlay it on a street map ffs?

It is an overview diagram to give a general view of the entire network and connections.

A full streetmap with all bus routes traced has been available for many years.

noelfirl · 18-12-2009 08:00PM

I don't see how anyone cant see the spider map as a step up from below (albeit anything would be a step up)

Anyway I thought the idea was eventually to have individual spider maps for areas with concise information on stops where routes intersect, etc., to replace the (already removed) ordinance survey maps at bus stops. Personally I thinks the draft is nice, simple and straightforward, and is a good first step.

Chris_533976 · 18-12-2009 08:01PM

Good idea, even though the city centre is terribly confusing.

What they need to do is a flash based version where you can zoom in and out and exact routes are shown. And the ability to turn on and off each route as you go.

triple-M · 18-12-2009 09:59PM

would anybody happen to have a link to any other cities around ireland including belfast's transport network map ??

Mrs OBumble · 18-12-2009 10:21PM

triple-M wrote: »

would anybody happen to have a link to any other cities around ireland including belfast's transport network map ??

Galway's is here. It's "unofficial", produced by one business-systems-analyst doing this as a hobby and using only free tools. But - critical point - it includes city services provided by ALL operators, not just the dominant company.

There's a regional one that I'm not at all happy with - but I can't figure out how to do it better with these tools, and anyway I know that it's hardly ever looked at.

Looking way outside Ireland, this is an interesting one. It covers one city that's a bit like Cork, three other cities the same-ish size as Waterford, and quite a few rural areas in between. And notice how you can zoom in/out, right inside the page. I've seen it on big customer display signs in the city, and 'twas very handy.

Mrs OBumble · 18-12-2009 10:25PM

Metrobest wrote: »

The map looks absolutely horrendous to me and more confusing than ever. Mutton cannot be dressed as lamb. Until somebody sits down and sorts out Dublin Bus's medieval route network, there is no point wasting tens of thousands of euros on graphic design consultants creating maps that will have no utility for anybody except Dublin Bus management who will claim that they have now 'done something'. Still, good to know that Dublin Bus is still good at wasting money, even in a recession some things never change....

Having been a tourist in Dublin, I couldn't disagree more. Would have loved to get my hands on something like this, which helps people to understand the way the city is laid out, as well as where the buses go. There is a knack to reading them, though (you can't be too literal), and they really don't work for some people.

Even if there are fundamental problems with how the routes are currently organised, that's NOT an excuse to put off doing a map. It could be years, even decades, before that's sorted, and newcomers need to figure out how to catch the bus tomorrow!

Metrobest · 18-12-2009 10:32PM

Here's Amsterdam's with every bus (public and private), tram, ferry and metro. A large blown-up version of this map is displayed at every stop. Being geographical, it's also very handy if you are going by bike to an unfamiliar area!

http://www.gvb.nl/reizigers/toegankelijkov/Documents/Lijnenkaart-dec09-kaartzijde.pdf

Metrobest · 18-12-2009 10:38PM

JustMary wrote: »

Having been a tourist in Dublin, I couldn't disagree more. Would have loved to get my hands on something like this, which helps people to understand the way the city is laid out, as well as where the buses go. There is a knack to reading them, though (you can't be too literal), and they really don't work for some people

To understand the way the city is laid out a map needs to have landmarks. The only geographical reference on this map is the river Lifffey...

stop · 19-12-2009 12:11PM

Bit of Google Transit would be nice.

Getting rid of the OS maps from stops was a step backwards I believe. Spider maps clarify the fare structure, but thats about it, they offer zero information as to detailed locations a bus goes near.

Mrs OBumble · 21-12-2009 01:01PM

stop wrote: »

Bit of Google Transit would be nice.

It's a hard call, though. If I worked for a council, I'd find it hard to be recommending that we should adopt Google as our IT tool for delivering public-transport geographical information.

To make printed copies, we'd have to buy licences from Google. Initially the pricing probably - I'm guessing here) be very reasonable. But after we invested a lot of time/money loading our data into Google, we'd be locked in to whatever pricing model they want to move to in the future.
Also, we'd have little or no control over the delivery method and some of the other content that's also delivered at the same time (ads, and also some of Google's user-generated content, eg "landmarks" which are in the wrong place, or described in ways that we don't like 'em described).

There are some counter-arguments too, about the accessibility, level of public acceptance and functionality. But I'm not sure if they'd be strong enough to convince senior managers that it's worth the risks involved. (Remembering that they're spending public money, so should be fully accountable/responsible for using it well.)

KC61 · 21-12-2009 01:37PM

stop wrote: »

Bit of Google Transit would be nice.

Getting rid of the OS maps from stops was a step backwards I believe. Spider maps clarify the fare structure, but thats about it, they offer zero information as to detailed locations a bus goes near.

Well reading the signs on the stops I would say that the plan is for new street maps (similar to the city centre map at http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/City-Centre-Bus-Stops/OConnell-Street-Bus-Stops/ ) developed for the individual bus stops.

I would imagine that the OS licence was costing an arm and a leg.

What the spider map provides is a simple overview of the bus network and where the bus routes go.

Both are necessary and I would say again that this is a start, as are the provision of proper laminated signage on bus stops when diversions are in place, and the introduction of the trueform bus stops in the city centre.

Gurgle · 21-12-2009 01:38PM

That bus map is exactly the same style / format as...
This,thisand this
Its a very useful, internationally recognized format.
For trains

KC61 · 21-12-2009 01:43PM

Gurgle wrote: »

That bus map is exactly the same style / format as...
This,thisand this
Its a very useful, internationally recognized format.
For trains

It is also exactly the format that Transport for London use for their bus network. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaround/maps/buses/pdf/trafalgarsquare-2262.pdf

As I said above, my understanding is that there will still be a local map on bus stops, but schematic maps are far easier to follow. This is a schematic overview of the route network and that needs to be borne in mind.

If you want a full map with streets and bus routes marked in, then the Ordnance Survey do exactly that!

Dublin Bus Network Map

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