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Irish Youngsters being discremiated agianst?

13

Comments

  • #62
    LionelNashe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,958 ✭✭✭LionelNashe


    OP has a point in that there shouldn't be discrimination on the basis of age. However the non-national angle is a complete red-herring. Whether foreigners should get benefits is a different argument.

    A friend of mine says that 'most' young people live in their parents' house, so should get less. Bollix. There's no reason a 30-year old can't move home to the folks' house just as easily as a 22 year-old.

    And if a 30 year-old is more likely to have a mortgage than a 22 year-old? I don't see why the 30 year-old should get more money so that he can increase the equity in his house at tax-payers expense.

    I'm not saying that dole for older people should be cut - just that dole for younger people shouldn't be. If young people have less rent, mortgages, kids & expensive lifestyles to support, then they shouldn't be penalised by receiving less benefits.

    I am waiting to see if some person is able to launch a legal challenge.


  • #63
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    If employers take on immigrants because they can pay them less than Irish nationals, don't blame the immigrants.


  • #64
    RonMexico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭RonMexico


    You better hope the IMF don't come in and take over the finance reins.

    Then people will truly understand hardship and the difference between a luxury and a necessity.


  • #65
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,651 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    Dudess wrote: »
    If employers take on immigrants because they can pay them less than Irish nationals, don't blame the immigrants.

    Immigants! I knew it was them! Even when it was the bears, I knew it was them.


  • #66
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    LionelNashe wrote: »
    OP has a point in that there shouldn't be discrimination on the basis of age. However the non-national angle is a complete red-herring. Whether foreigners should get benefits is a different argument.

    A friend of mine says that 'most' young people live in their parents' house, so should get less. Bollix. There's no reason a 30-year old can't move home to the folks' house just as easily as a 22 year-old.

    And if a 30 year-old is more likely to have a mortgage than a 22 year-old? I don't see why the 30 year-old should get more money so that he can increase the equity in his house at tax-payers expense.

    I'm not saying that dole for older people should be cut - just that dole for younger people shouldn't be. If young people have less rent, mortgages, kids & expensive lifestyles to support, then they shouldn't be penalised by receiving less benefits.

    I am waiting to see if some person is able to launch a legal challenge.

    If young people voted and protested at the same rates as the elderly, their benefits would not have been cut.


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  • #67
    omahaid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭omahaid


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    If young people voted and protested at the same rates as the elderly, their benefits would not have been cut.

    +1 to that, its votes drive the government and if you show apathy you will be targeted.


  • #68
    LionelNashe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,958 ✭✭✭LionelNashe


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    If young people voted and protested at the same rates as the elderly, their benefits would not have been cut.

    Good point.

    I wonder why it is that elderly people, who often have no mortgages and no dependents, get so much more sympathy than young people when their benefits are cut.


  • #69
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    LionelNashe wrote: »
    Good point.

    I wonder why it is that elderly people, who often have no mortgages and no dependents, get so much more sympathy than young people when their benefits are cut.

    Guessing here but:
    • Possibly more likely to vote than young people.
    • Also more likely to be settled in their voting patterns, thus constituting more of a bloc of sorts.

    Also, I don't think the fact that they have neither mortgages or dependants means they should automatically be the first to suffer. Most have paid a lifetime of taxes already.


  • #70
    jimi_t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,578 ✭✭✭jimi_t


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    If young people voted and protested at the same rates as the elderly, their benefits would not have been cut.

    Bar the fact that the young are the most diverse group and their vote is split the most ways, a significant percentage of our voting base have left this country like the sinking ship it is; whereas the oldies base is increasing every year, despite the best efforts of the HSE. Decrying it as apathy is just nonsense.


  • #71
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    stovelid wrote: »
    Guessing here but:
    • Possibly more likely to vote than young people.
    • Also more likely to be settled in their voting patterns, thus constituting more of a bloc of sorts.

    Also, I don't think the fact that they don't have mortgages or dependants means they should automatically be the first to suffer. Most have paid a lifetime of taxes already.

    I've been looking at European Social Survey data all day so I have this offhand but...

    The average voter in the last general election was 51 years old. The average age of an Irish non-voter was 36.


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  • #72
    johnathan woss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭johnathan woss


    So was my assertion correct ?
    i.e. that anybody who has worked for 2 years anywhere in the EU can claim benefits here (someone has stated that ONE contribution has to have been in Ireland).

    If so, can people stop propagating the lie that anyone claiming the dole here has "contributed to Ireland for two years".


  • #73
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    jimi_t wrote: »
    Bar the fact that the young are the most diverse group and their vote is split the most ways, a significant percentage of our voting base have left this country like the sinking ship it is; whereas the oldies base is increasing every year, despite the best efforts of the HSE. Decrying it as apathy is just nonsense.

    Saying the vote is split and saying people don't vote are two different things. If voting rates were the same, but young people weren't a monolithic voting block there would still be some incentive for parties to pay attention to their policy concerns. But they vote in rates far lower than the elderly, are less likely to contact their TD than the elderly, and are less likely to have affiliation to a political party. So politicians don't pay attention.

    Young people are the least likely to vote in most Western countries. They are also less likely to belong to political organizations. There is a lot of social science research on this, but it's mostly attributed to the fact that a) the elderly are more reliant on government assistance to keep them out of poverty than young people, so there is more at stake for them, 2) they have the leisure time to participate in politics and 3) society tells then they deserve what they get from the state after a lifetime of working...it's hard to say that about an 18-year old.

    As for people leaving - many countries allow their citizens to vote from afar. Given that Ireland has been a country of emigration for most of its history, ask yourself why your government has not allowed for absentee voting, hmm...I doubt there are many FFers in Boston or Sydney...


  • #74
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,433 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    Hang on OP, weren't you the guy who started a post on the unfairness of employers supposedly being racist towards you in Australia, only to have someone dig out your 'Dem fordners tuk ar jowbs!' thread? That must've been embarrassing.

    Edit: Here you go. Hypocrisy in action, AHers.


  • #75
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,916 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    population wrote: »
    So let me get this straight

    Times are hard, lets blame foreigners

    Hell Yeah


  • #76
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    orourkeda wrote: »
    Hell Yeah

    That sounds like something a Foriegner would say.....


  • #77
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    GET HIM!


  • #78
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    jaffa20 wrote: »
    it's stupd that people already on the dole and under 24 will remain on the same amount but those who lose their job and apply from january will be possiblly getting up to half that amount.:eek:

    So that any unemployed person under 24 offered four weeks temporary work right now would be insane to take it


  • #79
    seraphimvc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭seraphimvc


    another 'foreigners scr*w us' thread?

    *yawn*


  • #80
    CrazyRabbit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭CrazyRabbit


    seraphimvc wrote: »
    another 'foreigners scr*w us' thread?

    *yawn*

    You're just saying that because you are from the third parallel universe.


  • #81
    Porkpie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 718 ✭✭✭Porkpie


    Screw all these young people

    Gary Glitter


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  • #82
    me-skywalker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,339 ✭✭✭me-skywalker


    Duggy747 wrote: »
    As for this whole hub-bob on the social, get over it! We needed the cut and a huge percentage of the younger crowd (18-20) are living at home with their parents and many I know have no intentions of getting a job or doing a course. What the hell do they need €204 a week for, rent? Food? ESB? Oil?


    your right there brother... youth in the ages of 18-20 living at home the only thing they would use their money for is...
    Duggy747 wrote: »
    (€10 for 8 cans of Bravria FTW :pac:).
    on a friday saturday and a sunday. Buy cigs. Head out on a night out.

    I think its a fair cut and would get them up off their asses into something constructive. Build from the base up again. Get these youngsters our into training,education or jobs.


  • #83
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Coming over here and stealing our pots to piss in.....................


    Fucking Normans.:(


  • #84
    jimi_t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,578 ✭✭✭jimi_t


    me-skywalker wrote: »
    your right there brother... youth in the ages of 18-20 living at home the only thing they would use their money for is...
    on a friday saturday and a sunday. Buy cigs. Head out on a night out.

    I think its a fair cut and would get them up off their asses into something constructive. Build from the base up again. Get these youngsters our into training,education or jobs.

    Training = Heavily Cut
    Education = Head on the chopping Block
    Jobs = Have you been reading this f*cking thread?

    But otherwise you've hit the nail on the head, definitely what we need is large numbers of disaffected, impoverished and angry teenagers out on the streets. THAT's whats going to fix this.

    pillock


  • #85
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Duggy747 wrote: »
    living at home with their parents and many I know have no intentions of getting a job or doing a course. What the hell do they need €204 a week for, rent? Food? ESB? Oil?

    If they are living at home with their parents their benefits will already be means tested and they wont get €204 or anything near it.

    And your parents must be very generous if they allow you to stay at home on a long term basis without paying anything towards Food/ESB/Oil ?


  • #86
    RAWLiNGS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 79 ✭✭RAWLiNGS


    I used to earn 80 euro a week (part-time). 60 euro for rent (you can imagine that flat:)), 20 euro for everything else (1 euro a day was enough for me 3.5 years ago), and I had to walk 3 miles to work every day, as the bus was 18 euro a week, and I couldn't afford that. One night I was robbed on payday, lost that 80 euro. I lost 3 stones, so at least I got fit! :D

    So 100-150-204 euro (whether you live at home or you rent, under 21 or under 25) is very very very generous, especially if you compare it to other EU countries, where you get nothing after 12 months. Compare those payments to my budget, and stop complaining! ;)


  • #87
    ziggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ziggy


    This post has been deleted.


  • #88
    congo_90
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭congo_90


    Lay off the op for spelling and gramamr etc. Not as if he's using text speak.
    Seriously.

    Anyways I do agree with the op on certain points. Cutting the social welfare to 100euro a week is a disgrace. I work 2 jobs and still earn fook all but that is a joke.
    The majority of unemployed are those 18-30. so in essense the government is punishing the generation who they want to encourage to be the 'smart' generation. Granted I'm 19 and lost a job I know what it's like.

    A lot of people on here will argue why someone would need more than 100 euro but i'd like to point out the most basic of expenses will not be covered by this.

    Has it ever occured to you that some people under 24 may have moved home after losing their jobs and couldn't afford rent? Some families still have younger brothers and sisters with parents on stretched budgets from pay cuts.
    I'm living at home because I cannot afford on the dole or not to move out. The little money I do earn, part of which is used to pay for my stay including electricity, heat, washing etc along with the fact I do most of the housework to earn my keep.


  • #89
    994
    Closed Accounts Posts: 911 ✭✭✭994


    jaffa20 wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/features/budget2010/speech/adjustments_in_social_welfare.html

    "- for new applicants, the rate of Job-seekers Allowance and Supplementary Welfare Allowance for persons aged 20 and 21 years of age who have no dependent children is being reduced to €100 per week and for those aged between 22 and 24 to €150 per week; and
    - for all other cases, the rate will be reduced to €150 per week where job offers or activation measures have been refused."

    So those currently under 24 will only receive a 4% cut unless they are refusing jobs. The new rates only apply to new applicants. Why?
    It's called a grandfathering clause, it's pretty common.


  • #90
    Krusader
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,057 ✭✭✭Krusader


    The real question is
    How many young people will turn to crime over this to get that extra few bob?


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  • #91
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    johnathan woss wrote: »
    So was my assertion correct ?
    i.e. that anybody who has worked for 2 years anywhere in the EU can claim benefits here (someone has stated that ONE contribution has to have been in Ireland).

    If so, can people stop propagating the lie that anyone claiming the dole here has "contributed to Ireland for two years".

    You are somewhat right but so so wrong as well, what you don't seem to know (or else do know but are neglecting to mention) is that under EU rules the payment is split between the involved countries in proportion to the number of credits accrued in each country. So for if only one weeks contribution is made here then Ireland pays 1/104 (Two year required to qualify for JB here).

    This information is widely available, which lead me to believe that the people who actually propogate this BS don't care what the correct answer is.


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