Oh my god the most unfair thing EVER

Long Onion · 04-12-2009 12:15PM

OP, you conveniently forgot to mention the fact that you happened to have your mickey sticking through the railings of a school for children with learning disabilities at the time.

Yours etc,

Fachtna Murphy.

eman66 · 04-12-2009 12:17PM

Stoppen. Ihre Papiere bitte.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 04-12-2009 12:19PM

jhegarty · 04-12-2009 12:20PM

foinse wrote: »

has the power to arrest you under section 24 Criminal Justice(Public Order) Act 1994....

Doesn't that presume the guard caught the op doing something illegal ?

5starpool · 04-12-2009 12:22PM

What kind of super genius did you think you were being by not giving your details? Did you think you could put him off your scent by saying "No Thank You"? I bet all those killers/rapists/scumbags wish they had thought of this genius tactic.

If you weren't acting like the hardman (or hardwoman) in the first place then you would only have had to be slightly puzzled why a guard was asking you your details, but instead you were left to stew in self made injustice juices.

Did the prhase "I wish I had told him my details" never enter your head at any point?

source · 04-12-2009 12:33PM

jhegarty wrote: »

Doesn't that person the guard caught the op doing something illegal ?

Huh???? what are you trying to say here it's unintelligible.

5starpool · 04-12-2009 12:35PM

foinse wrote: »

Huh???? what are you trying to say here it's unintelligible.

Replace the word "person" with te word "presume" and it make more sense. That would be my guess anyhow.

Biggins · 04-12-2009 12:36PM

Op, with the greatest of respect, if thats the most unfair thing that has happened to you, I honestly hope you continue to live such a lucky life.

jhegarty · 04-12-2009 12:40PM

5starpool wrote: »

Replace the word "person" with te word "presume" and it make more sense. That would be my guess anyhow.

Well done.

AnonoBoy · 04-12-2009 12:41PM

Biggins is right OP. If you think that was the most unfair thing ever there's 11 lads who wear green jerseys I think you should talk to.

drkpower · 04-12-2009 12:42PM

betafrog wrote: »

Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994

You should read the whole section;).

That provision (offence to comply with a direction) only applies to a direction given under that section which specifically applies to a number of specific of public order offences and "loitering" etc.... If we are to believe the OP, who was doing 'nothing':rolleyes::D, the Garda doesnt have any lawful authority to be given his name and address (under that Act anyway, and at all, afaik).

In any case, OP, if you happen to get picked on by random Gardai when you are 'doing nothing', you might want to have a look at your general attitude and demeanour because you must be doing something wrong to attract this disgraceful and unwarranted attention:rolleyes:.

IvyTheTerrible · 04-12-2009 12:43PM

I think the OP is taking the piss of the guy that was on the Joe Duffy show yesterday bitching about his "maltreatment" by the police.

AnonoBoy · 04-12-2009 12:44PM

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I think the OP is taking the piss of the guy that was on the Joe Duffy show yesterday bitching about his "maltreatment" by the police.

That's a bit too subtle for After Hours.

Zynks · 04-12-2009 12:46PM

5starpool wrote: »

Replace the word "person" with te word "presume" and it make more sense. That would be my guess anyhow.

Well done, sounds right, but how the hell did you conclude that?

source · 04-12-2009 12:54PM

replacing person with presume makes sense, and yes i believe i made that point in my post.

You may have fitted the description of someone he was looking for, and by refusing to give your name he has the power to arrest you under section 24 Criminal Justice(Public Order) Act 1994....and trust me, it almost definitely wasn't for no reason whatsoever, I can almost guarantee that you did or were doing something which either someone complained about or the garda saw, and this was his reason for stopping you in the first place, if you had given your name and address he probably would have told you to watch what you were doing, and let you on your way.

and the legislation i posted is :

24.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána finds any person committing an offence under a relevant provision, the member may arrest such person without warrant.
[GA]

(2) Where a member of the Garda Síochána is of the opinion that an offence has been committed under a relevant provision, the member may—
[GA]

( a ) demand the name and address of any person whom the member suspects, with reasonable cause, has committed, or whom the member finds committing, such an offence, and
[GA]

( b ) arrest without warrant any such person who fails or refuses to give his name and address when demanded, or gives a name or address which the member has reasonable grounds for believing is false or misleading.
[GA]

(3) Any person who fails or refuses to give his name and address when demanded by virtue of subsection (2), or gives a name or address when so demanded which is false or misleading, shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]

(4) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (3) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500 or to a term of imprisonment not exceeding 6 months or to both.
[GA]

(5) In this section "relevant provision" means section 4, 6, 7, 8, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 or 19.

--Kaiser-- · 04-12-2009 12:56PM

By rights the Guarda has to tell you under what sections of what criminal act he is questioning you.

But.....

It'd be easier just to tell him as a huge amount of them are arseholes

Wossack · 04-12-2009 12:57PM

shoulda told him that you pay his wages and that he should be out catching real criminals....

oh wait, it kinda sounds like you did :eek: people only say that as a joke..!

the_barfly1 · 04-12-2009 01:05PM

Yeah a Garda can only really request your details when they have suspected that you may have committed a criminal offence, and must give details of such while questioning you...
Them be the laws... But im guessing ya were walking around like Richard Ashcroft in the video for BitterSweet Symphony...so.. maybe pull the poker outa your hole and tone down on the attitude (i too had a ****ty attitude in my school days, and it didnt do me any favours)

4zn76tysfajdxp · 04-12-2009 01:07PM

gcollins09 wrote: »

Long time lurker, first time poster.

No you're not.

drkpower · 04-12-2009 01:11PM

betafrog wrote: »

Loitering: To stand or wait around idly or without apparent purpose

And for everyone else, the full section from the act,

8.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána finds a person in a public place and suspects, with reasonable cause, that such person—
( a ) is or has been acting in a manner contrary to the provisions of section 4, 5, 6, 7 or 9, or
( b ) without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, is acting in a manner which consists of loitering in a public place in circumstances, which may include the company of other persons, that give rise to a reasonable apprehension for the safety of persons or the safety of property or for the maintenance of the public peace, the member may direct the person so suspected to do either or both of the following, that is to say:
(i) desist from acting in such a manner, and
(ii) leave immediately the vicinity of the place concerned in a peaceable or orderly manner.
(2) It shall be an offence for any person, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, to fail to comply with a direction given by a member of the Garda Síochána under this section.
(3) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.

Again, read the act. The Garda cant issue a direction where someone is just standing around!! There needs to be an extra element re: public safety/order. So, if you are genuinely 'minding your own business' the Garda cant reallly do much.

Read the bit you posted yourself, the bit I bolded above.

Stercus Accidit · 04-12-2009 01:12PM

Did the garda arrest and process you?

If he didn't arrest you, he had no right to take you anywhere.

Clare_Guy · 04-12-2009 01:13PM

all of the legislation that has been quoted here, clearly states that; to demand a persons details, the garda has to be of the opinion that the person has committed an offence. That means that a person simply walking down the road does NOT have to give any details when requested by a garda.

IvySlayer · 04-12-2009 01:17PM

Clare_Guy wrote: »

all of the legislation that has been quoted here, clearly states that; to demand a persons details, the garda has to be of the opinion that the person has committed an offence. That means that a person simply walking down the road does NOT have to give any details when requested by a garda.

What the **** is with people and not helping out our boys in the force? When dealing with the Gardaí, being respectful, honest and polite will go a long way.

They put up with a load of ****e daily, and if they ask a simple question, you'd be best to give them an answer.

Maybe the Garda was out on information that a drug dealer was in the area? A drug dealer won't give you his real address, if the OP just gave his name and address, the Garda would've checked it out and he probably would've been on his way 5 minutes later.

I hope more Garda do random spotchecks.

FruitLover · 04-12-2009 01:18PM

I used to see this guy going around town - he had no legs, was in an electric wheelchair, and navigated his way around the streets (in said wheelchair) using a white cane (as he was blind). I thought that was pretty unfair.

But yeah, your story is worse

5starpool · 04-12-2009 01:19PM

Zynks wrote: »

Well done, sounds right, but how the hell did you conclude that?

By wondering what the hell he meant, and then thinking what would have made sense in there instead.

drkpower · 04-12-2009 01:22PM

IvySlayer wrote: »

What the **** is with people and not helping out our boys in the force? When dealing with the Gardaí, being respectful, honest and polite will go a long way.

They put up with a load of ****e daily, and if they ask a simple question, you'd be best to give them an answer.

I agree 100%.
But just because you should does not mean you have to. And I am simply trying to correct the erroneous impression some are giving that a Garda has the right to compel you to give you your name/follow a direction in any circumstance whatsoever - which is false.

Where a Garda (or anyone) is reasonable and curteous, you should be similarly so but if a Garda is straying outside his powers and/or acting in an unreasonable fashion, you have every right to - and should - point them to the error of their ways.

destroyer · 04-12-2009 01:22PM

Anyway , its not the most unfair thing ever, coz there was this football match once and a guy used his hand to control the ball..............

04-12-2009 01:51PM

IvySlayer wrote: »

What the **** is with people and not helping out our boys in the force? When dealing with the Gardaí, being respectful, honest and polite will go a long way.

They put up with a load of ****e daily, and if they ask a simple question, you'd be best to give them an answer.

Respect, honesty and politeness should be a two-way street, but isn't always the case. Not all Gardai are nice, decent people themselves and then demand and expect people to be courteous to them because they're wearing a uniform. Some people have had to put up with crap from them on an almost daily basis, so is it any wonder they're viewed with suspicion.

We don't live in a communist state. We do not legally have to carry identification with us. Nor do we have to provide our name + address unless we are in breach of the Public Order Act. Unfortunately, this act covers a myriad of things, one of which is "failure to comply with the directions of a Guard". This means that he can say "Give me your name and address". You say "But I don't have to". He then says "Right, you're in breach of the PO Act, that means i'm now entitled to your name and address".

Load of bollocks tbh, but I agree that it's easier in the long run to just give it to him.

Clare_Guy wrote: »

all of the legislation that has been quoted here, clearly states that; to demand a persons details, the garda has to be of the opinion that the person has committed an offence. That means that a person simply walking down the road does NOT have to give any details when requested by a garda.

See above.

drkpower wrote: »

Again, read the act. The Garda cant issue a direction where someone is just standing around!! There needs to be an extra element re: public safety/order. So, if you are genuinely 'minding your own business' the Garda cant reallly do much.

Becuase of the backwards nature of this Act, it is up to the individual Guard to decide whether you are a danger to yourself or someone else based on the simple fact that you are just standing there. If it comes down to it, all he has to do is tell a judge that you were standing outside the shops/on the green/walking down some lane that is known to be used by drug dealers (doesn't matter if is known or not) and he is within the law. They can tell you to leave an area. You can try and argue your case, you are then failing to comply with his directions so bang, you're arrested.

fizzynicenice · 04-12-2009 01:51PM

always tryin to keep a brother down...

Jip · 04-12-2009 01:59PM

Where's the OP gone ? Has he/she been arrested again for just walking to the shops this time ?

Oh my god the most unfair thing EVER

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