Draft Public Sector deal

BennyLava · 01-12-2009 12:59PM #1

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/draft-deal-on-public-sector-cuts-drawn-up-436514.html

However the Unions play it the Government won, up to 20 days unpaid leave
percentage wise they would have been better off taking a pay cut

We'll all suffer for it though, think about it, nurses, doctors, guards, firemen etc, forced to take between 14-20 extra days off a year, services are really going to be affected,

an example affecting a lot of people, Social Welfare, look how long it takes to process claims now, imaging how long it's going to take when SW staff have to take extra time off

2010 isn't going to be good for any of us:(

seamus · 01-12-2009 01:03PM

It doesn't really help. We're basically paying the same money for the same service. What about next year when we have to make the same cuts again? Are the public sector going to be happy to lose another month's pay then? Will they fvck.

Another perfect example of the short-sighted, limp-backboned attitude of our Government. Make the difficult decisions you sycophantic bunch of morons!

opinion guy · 01-12-2009 01:15PM

BennyLava wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/draft-deal-on-public-sector-cuts-drawn-up-436514.html

However the Unions play it the Government won, up to 20 days unpaid leave
percentage wise they would have been better off taking a pay cut

We'll all suffer for it though, think about it, nurses, doctors, guards, firemen etc, forced to take between 14-20 extra days off a year, services are really going to be affected,

an example affecting a lot of people, Social Welfare, look how long it takes to process claims now, imaging how long it's going to take when SW staff have to take extra time off

2010 isn't going to be good for any of us:(

Ok you have to wise up here. The government DO NOT GIVE A F**K about services. They have cut the **** out of services already. Special eds teachers - gone. Classroom assistants - gone. Many health care jobs already gone (temp jobs yes and some permanent also, but thats all affecting services).

Also 20 days oblig leave next year is going to be irrelevant if they can't fill the jobs to begin with:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1128/1224259620164.html

BraziliaNZ · 01-12-2009 01:17PM

so what realistic solution would the public like to see implemented? What paycut figure will make everyone happy? 30%?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 01-12-2009 01:18PM

I don't get how this will work.

Will it mean if someone take's their annual leave, ie for a vacation, they're not paid?.

Or is someone told 'Right John/Mary, we won't be needing you for the next 20 days - off you go and sign on for that period'?.

BennyLava · 01-12-2009 01:26PM

Adilynn Thundering Mimosa wrote: »

I don't get how this will work.

Will it mean if someone take's their annual leave, ie for a vacation, they're not paid?.

Or is someone told 'Right John/Mary, we won't be needing you for the next 20 days - off you go and sign on for that period'?.

Do you honestly see them allowing the workers to sign on, from what their say, unpaid means unpaid, and it appears to be in addition to holiday entitlements

on the + side the Dail will now site for -18 days a year so less time for them to **** thing up ( I wish)

CreepingDeath · 01-12-2009 01:27PM

BennyLava wrote: »

However the Unions play it the Government won, up to 20 days unpaid leave
percentage wise they would have been better off taking a pay cut

Nope... because now the unions will be whining about being overworked, increased stress and they'll take even more sick days off.

dicknorris · 01-12-2009 01:27PM

The Government have given in to the unions yet again, no reduction in pay in this deal

arybvtcw0eolkf · 01-12-2009 01:31PM

BennyLava wrote: »

Do you honestly see them allowing the workers to sign on, from what their say, unpaid means unpaid, and it appears to be in addition to holiday entitlements

Honestly, I don't know.

But thats not really answering the question (I realise you probably don't know the answer). But if I was Mary-Jane Rottencrotch in the Dept.of Justice and I wanted to take five days annual leave, is it these days which I'm not going to be paid for?.. (in which case I'd probably just take a few sick days instead).

Or will this unpaid leave be rostered?.

I can't see how workers can be let go and not allowed sign on for dole payments.

This government, and the public sector unions, baffle the bollox out of me.

TheZohanS · 01-12-2009 01:32PM

It appears to be 20 unpaid holidays, take the holidays as agreed with your superiors but don't get paid, no signing on for those days either.

As an employee I'd rather have a mandatory 20 extra unpaid holidays than a mandatory pay cut working the same amount of days. As a boss I'd rather implement a pay cut.

It's an interesting concept

Josey Wales · 01-12-2009 01:35PM

dicknorris wrote: »

The Government have given in to the unions yet again, no reduction in pay in this deal

Of course there is a reduction in pay. That is why it is called unpaid leave. People working in the public sector won't be getting paid for those days they are forced to not go to work.

It is a pay cut no matter what way the unions/gov. try to dress it up.

Kradock · 01-12-2009 01:37PM

Put it another way , I am earning €50K a year this year and I will also be earning 50K a year next year but I am being told I have to take 20 unpaid days off. I think I'd be happy with that outcome.

If your base salary is the same then how can you lose out.

FlutterinBantam · 01-12-2009 01:38PM

Only one answer-pay cut across the board.

Cowen,grow some balls and tell these people the truth.

This is so blatantly obvious, that if you can't do the job

get out, and let someone else do it.

tell me they won't agree on this utter crap.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 01-12-2009 01:39PM

TheZohan wrote: »

It appears to be 20 unpaid holidays, take the holidays as agreed with your superiors but don't get paid, no signing on for those days either.

As an employee I'd rather have a mandatory 20 extra unpaid holidays than a mandatory pay cut working the same amount of days. As a boss I'd rather implement a pay cut.

It's an interesting concept

I see a split in the unions.

Good ploy by the government, but sickening too. First divide and conquer the public and private sector workers, turn the people against his/her neighbour.

Then divide and hopefully conquer the unions.

I feel the day is closer when we'll see real civil disobedience in our towns and cities.

Dozen Wicked Words · 01-12-2009 01:43PM

I can't really see how its going to work in healthcare, if minimum number of nurses on a ward is 3, someone goes on leave, they still have to find someone to fill that 3rd slot on the ward. The wage bill for the ward will be the same wont it? Maybe I am missing something, anyway It will be good for nurses who aren't currently getting their hours, but not sure how its going to save the government much money.

BennyLava · 01-12-2009 01:43PM

Kradock wrote: »

Put it another way , I am earning €50K a year this year and I will also be earning 50K a year next year but I am being told I have to take 20 unpaid days off. I think I'd be happy with that outcome.

If your base salary is the same then how can you lose out.

The base salary scale will be the same, but you loose 20 days pay, so in real terms you have had a pay cut

BennyLava · 01-12-2009 01:47PM

dooferoaks wrote: »

I can't really see how its going to work in healthcare, if minimum number of nurses on a ward is 3, someone goes on leave, they still have to find someone to fill that 3rd slot on the ward. The wage bill for the ward will be the same wont it? Maybe I am missing something, anyway It will be good for nurses who aren't currently getting their hours, but not sure how its going to save the government much money.

It's a cosy deal that, that as usual, will screw those at the bottom, and not adversely affect those at the top, can't have management suffering unduly now can we

FlutterinBantam · 01-12-2009 01:48PM

Ok Flutther prediction.

Watch the sick leave in the PS escalate as the employees seek to mitigate the hit of this totally hairbrained scheme to save money.

One despairs.

Kradock · 01-12-2009 01:48PM

BennyLava wrote: »

The base salary scale will be the same, but you loose 20 days pay, so in real terms you have had a pay cut

Ok , so say my 50k is really only €47K+. So if I was a teacher I would be able to stay in Oz for September also. My heart bleeds for the Public sector.

TheZohanS · 01-12-2009 01:48PM

dooferoaks wrote: »

I can't really see how its going to work in healthcare, if minimum number of nurses on a ward is 3, someone goes on leave, they still have to find someone to fill that 3rd slot on the ward. The wage bill for the ward will be the same wont it? Maybe I am missing something, anyway It will be good for nurses who aren't currently getting their hours, but not sure how its going to save the government much money.

No it won't be the same wage bill. If we take it that there are 48 working weeks in the year it is in effect an 8.3% pay cut. And if what you say is correct, that nurses aren't getting their hours, it will work out nicely for healthcare.

Across the board, productivity-wise, would giving Public Service workers 20 extra unpaid holidays lead to higher net productivity than cutting public sector pay by lets say 10% and having workers work for less money? It's hard to know.

Kradock · 01-12-2009 01:50PM

BennyLava wrote: »

It's a cosy deal that, that as usual, will screw those at the bottom, and not adversely affect those at the top, can't have management suffering unduly now can we

Isn't it always the way:mad:. Public or Private sector.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 01-12-2009 01:50PM

BennyLava wrote: »

It's a cosy deal that, that as usual, will screw those at the bottom, and not adversely affect those at the top, can't have management suffering unduly now can we

I'm thinking the same thing, how in the name of good god can a (for example) services officer (messenger to you and me) at the bottom rung of the ladder live for 20 days without pay and be expected to meet basic bills like mortage repayments, utilities, schooling etc.

I'm looking forward to the finer details of this arrangement, it's gonna be interesting and thats for sure.

Smart Bug · 01-12-2009 01:52PM

As a public sector worker I'm in a position to clear up a few misconceptions here:

1. This is unpaid leave in addition to annual holidays.
2. The public sector wage is worked out over all days in a month (insane, yes), i.e. when you're working out daily wages for a week you divide the figure by 7 (weekend included), therefore 14 days unpaid leave means 10working days off for the employee. At least that's my understanding of the f*cked up way our pay is calculated.
3. You cannot claim welfare payments when you're in fulltime employment. I really haven't a clue where this crazy idea came from. This is unpaid leave, people aren't being laid off for two weeks ffs.
4. This is an effort by the unions to leave basic pay untouched but reduce the cost of our wages to the exchequer.
5. As Makikomi said, this an effort (a successful effort imo) on the Government's behalf to split the unions. Gardai, teachers, nurses and doctors cannot take this extra leave as they cannot be replaced in these front-line service areas (ban on hire of temp staff etc).

Riskymove · 01-12-2009 01:53PM

Kradock wrote: »

Put it another way , I am earning €50K a year this year and I will also be earning 50K a year next year but I am being told I have to take 20 unpaid days off. I think I'd be happy with that outcome.

If your base salary is the same then how can you lose out.

eer...what?

you earn less salary in the year...thats how you lose out

markpb · 01-12-2009 01:54PM

BennyLava wrote: »

We'll all suffer for it though, think about it, nurses, doctors, guards, firemen etc, forced to take between 14-20 extra days off a year, services are really going to be affected

RTE said this morning that it wouldn't be an outright directive, any critical areas would be exempt.

I'm not sure the government really won this round. Unless it's changed since this morning, this won't affect their pension so it's only a slight saving. It also means the government have to negotiate more savings next year. It's a ridiculous short-term solution.

Kradock · 01-12-2009 01:55PM

There aren't many companies in the world that having to save €1.2Billion that can look at keeping people in fulltime employment. No redundacies says it all about the backbones of this Government.

Note . I would not wish to see anyone unemployed but savings of this magnitude would mean job losses in any other sector.

InReality · 01-12-2009 01:57PM

20 unpaid days works out at about saving of 1.2 billion. I hope the govt goes for it.

mikedragon32 · 01-12-2009 01:57PM

Kradock wrote: »

There aren't many companies in the world that having to save €1.2Billion that can look at keeping people in fulltime employment.

Perhaps that's because the Government isn't a company...

arybvtcw0eolkf · 01-12-2009 01:57PM

I'm off to watch the one o'clock news, the explaination from both the government and the unions should be good.

Riskymove · 01-12-2009 01:57PM

markpb wrote: »

Unless it's changed since this morning, this won't affect their pension so it's only a slight saving.

Its the saving that they wanted to get....and we have a problem bridging the deficit NOW not when these people retire, lets handle that first

It also means the government have to negotiate more savings next year. It's a ridiculous short-term solution.

Its supposed to be abridging measure ahead of more long-term plans for reduction in numbers and other measures (i.e. reform - if the Govt can finally tackle the issues)

Kradock · 01-12-2009 01:59PM

Riskymove wrote: »

eer...what?

you earn less salary in the year...thats how you lose out

I see that now.

Draft Public Sector deal

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