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DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,355 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    johnneyboy wrote: »
    DDT IRELAND

    reading some the posts people have lost the plot by 2012 all analogue has to go both satelllite and terrestrial , meg2 was the starting ground as more more programs are in HD the need to upgrade to meg4 as for RTE leaving sky and going fta thats not a problem they would have sit down and hammer out a deal with freesat bbc the question of program rights to keep irish copyright irish viewers could be on freesat card and cam for freesat boxs a one off payment like in spain germany poland ,ddt pay tv in ireland the population isnt there to support freeview pay tv, uk population in the last count 68, 000,000 i think that speaks for its self 4,000,000 FREE HD FOR EVERYONE

    All analogue satellite, terrestrial even cable dosn't disappear in 2012. There is a recommendation from the EU to switchoff analogue terrestrial in 2012, its not mandatory. The ITU has set 17 June 2015 as the date after which countries will no longer be required to protect the analogue services of neighbouring countries against interference and be able to freely use frequencies assigned for digital services. There is no equivalent date for analogue satellite or cable.

    There won't be a freesat card or freesat cam, conditional access is not part of the freesat spec., its all in the name freesat.

    Regarding DTT pay tv, a low price flexible package of channels with a possible pay-as-you-go option might prove attractive for some in these difficult times over Sky or UPC. OneVision or whoever cannot compete at the same level with the two big players.

    The only thing delaying the launch of DTT in Ireland is the failure of Boxer and now maybe OneVision to sign contracts.
    Boxer were 9 months in discussion between award (21/7/08) and withdrawal (20/4/09).
    OneVision are today just over 6 months in discussion since award (11/5/09), will it take 9 months (9/2/10) for them to pull the plug?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    The Cush wrote: »
    The only thing delaying the launch of DTT in Ireland is the failure of Boxer and now maybe OneVision to sign contracts.
    Boxer were 9 months in discussion between award (21/7/08) and withdrawal (20/4/09).
    OneVision are today just over 6 months in discussion since award (11/5/09), will it take 9 months (9/2/10) for them to pull the plug?

    Couple of radio stations in the same position and the outlay wouldnt be anything near. Given current times.......


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    icdg wrote: »
    This thead's for talking about OneVision.

    And mods will not be responsible for the thread going off topic when Easy TV take control of the DTT Licence. :D


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,607 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    No comment on the likelihood of that...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    http://www.advanced-television.com/2009/nov16_nov20.htm#t2 which I spotted at the DVB.org-Ireland section. We were all wondering weren't we. I guess the BAI have learned, have September 2010 in mind & don't want to get more slack for letting it drag on,not going to wait 9 months again. I'm guessing that Eircom's takeover by STT means Eircom management may have to confer with STT, on this for a decision. I wonder what Arquiva will do if Eircom say No. I wonder will Aquiva just up there stake, pay it and charge Eircom multiplexing or will they put their lot in with Liberty Global (UPC parent). I would expect that Easy TV should be in a position to decide quickly given RTÉ would be a direct partner and there wouldn't I expect be the €20 million bond to be an issue given RTÉ would be directly involved. I had suspected that being an issue and had suggested to the stakeholders, Arquiva taking a stake in the network in a joint venture vehicle with RTÉ NL rather than the bond. Maybe RTÉ mightn't be interested in that. Who knows. Maybe UPC would suit them better. This would certainly be good for UPC if Onevision dropped out, because UPC could drop MMDS, go for a likely more successful DTT product. I guess they would probably streamline the pricing so that cable wasn't competing with DTT. Of course it wouldn't be good for competition. What UPC could do is use the cable capacity to drop cable TV in favour of faster broadband speeds and just go totally with DTT subscription against Sky. Wouldn't be great for competition but in a way it makes more sense economic point of view to have 2 strong players rather than 2 strong and 1 weak. At least UPC would have an interest DTT pay being successful.

    OneVision told to get on with DTT plans

    The consortium chosen to develop digital terrestrial television (DTT) in Ireland has been told by the The Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI) to make progress with its plans as a matter of urgency. It has written to the OneVision consortium, requesting that contracts for DTT be signed within the next couple of weeks. It was originally expected that contracts would be signed in September....

    Reports in Ireland say that the process was now at a ‘‘critical’’ stage, similar to the stage when the first consortium quit the process. One of the sticking points for OneVision appears to be a E20 million guarantee being sought by RTE. The broadcaster is to build the DTT network at a cost of more than E100 million and wants to ensure that the commercial backers will stick with the project.


    I guess we'll get clarity then by Christmas. I guess that if it went to Easy TV that given RTÉ's involvement in Easy TV, that they would be in a position to progress at speed given they know the ins and outs.


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  • Subscribers Posts: 16,859 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    scath wrote: »
    http://www.advanced-television.com/2009/nov16_nov20.htm#t2 which I spotted at the DVB.org-Ireland section. We were all wondering weren't we. I guess the BAI have learned, have September 2010 in mind & don't want to get more slack for letting it drag on,not going to wait 9 months again. I'm guessing that Eircom's takeover by STT means Eircom management may have to confer with STT, on this for a decision. I wonder what Arquiva will do if Eircom say No. I wonder will Aquiva just up there stake, pay it and charge Eircom multiplexing or will they put their lot in with Liberty Global (UPC parent). I would expect that Easy TV should be in a position to decide quickly given RTÉ would be a direct partner and there wouldn't I expect be the €20 million bond to be an issue given RTÉ would be directly involved. I had suspected that being an issue and had suggested to the stakeholders, Arquiva taking a stake in the network in a joint venture vehicle with RTÉ NL rather than the bond. Maybe RTÉ mightn't be interested in that. Who knows. Maybe UPC would suit them better. This would certainly be good for UPC if Onevision dropped out, because UPC could drop MMDS, go for a likely more successful DTT product. I guess they would probably streamline the pricing so that cable wasn't competing with DTT. Of course it wouldn't be good for competition. What UPC could do is use the cable capacity to drop cable TV in favour of faster broadband speeds and just go totally with DTT subscription against Sky. Wouldn't be great for competition but in a way it makes more sense economic point of view to have 2 strong players rather than 2 strong and 1 weak. At least UPC would have an interest DTT pay being successful.

    OneVision told to get on with DTT plans

    The consortium chosen to develop digital terrestrial television (DTT) in Ireland has been told by the The Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI) to make progress with its plans as a matter of urgency. It has written to the OneVision consortium, requesting that contracts for DTT be signed within the next couple of weeks. It was originally expected that contracts would be signed in September....

    Reports in Ireland say that the process was now at a ‘‘critical’’ stage, similar to the stage when the first consortium quit the process. One of the sticking points for OneVision appears to be a E20 million guarantee being sought by RTE. The broadcaster is to build the DTT network at a cost of more than E100 million and wants to ensure that the commercial backers will stick with the project.


    I guess we'll get clarity then by Christmas. I guess that if it went to Easy TV that given RTÉ's involvement in Easy TV, that they would be in a position to progress at speed given they know the ins and outs.


    This was in last weeks business post

    http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/onevision-urged-to-press-on-with-plans-45654.html
    The consortium chosen to develop digital terrestrial television (DTT) in Ireland has been told by the broadcasting watchdog to make progress with its plans as a matter of urgency.

    The Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI) has written to the OneVision consortium, requesting that contracts for DTT be signed within the next couple of weeks, according to sources.

    It was originally expected that contracts would be signed in September.

    OneVision is backed by Eircom, transmission specialist Arqiva, TV3 and Setanta. It was chosen to develop DTT - which will take over from traditional free-to-air TV in the coming years - after another consortium walked away from the process.

    Sources close to the DTT project said that the process was now at a ‘‘critical’’ stage, similar to the stage when the first consortium quit the process.

    One of the sticking points for OneVision appears to be a €20 million guarantee being sought by RTE.

    The broadcaster is to build the DTT network at a cost of more than €100 million and wants to ensure that the commercial backers will stick with the project.

    It is understood that RTE wants guarantees from the parent companies behind OneVision.

    In its correspondence with OneVision, the BAI wrote that it was aware of the outstanding issues, but said that there was a need to move quickly with the project at this stage. RTE is understood to have also written to the consortium in recent weeks, in a bid to move along the process.

    It outlined a range of financing methods for the guarantee. While OneVision’s correspondence has been positive, there has been no agreement with RTE as yet.

    Sources also said there was growing concern about the fact that the Department of Communications was not committing to any investment in DTT.

    OneVision wants assurances that the switch-off of the analogue signal will be well-publicised, but as yet the exchequer has not agreed to put money into a marketing plan.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    Was wondering where they got the sources in Ireland. Just copped that and was going to update my post. Am reading it now, yea..what ya think? They are right...I imagine it would drag on otherwise. I know all gov Dept's are cash strapped, but in fairness, like the UK, the Dept should be putting cash into the marketing. They were to have an information campaign. I expect RTE will be expected to pay into the switchover marketing plan rather than the Department. But I think the Dept will be kicking it into the long grass til 2011 when it hopes the exchequer finances will be in better condition. I would think that the consortium would just have take a leap of faith on it. I would think that Onevision taking a stake in the RTE transmission network is a better way to go, including investment letting the rest of the consortium pay the multiplexing costs rather than the bond. Maybe Arquiva are considering that, I don't know. Anyway I guess its up to One Vision now to reply to RTÉ and the BAI.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,355 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    scath wrote: »
    http://www.advanced-television.com/2009/nov16_nov20.htm#t2 which I spotted at the DVB.org-Ireland section. We were all wondering weren't we. I guess the BAI have learned, have September 2010 in mind & don't want to get more slack for letting it drag on,not going to wait 9 months again. I'm guessing that Eircom's takeover by STT means Eircom management may have to confer with STT, on this for a decision. I wonder what Arquiva will do if Eircom say No. I wonder will Aquiva just up there stake, pay it and charge Eircom multiplexing or will they put their lot in with Liberty Global (UPC parent). I would expect that Easy TV should be in a position to decide quickly given RTÉ would be a direct partner and there wouldn't I expect be the €20 million bond to be an issue given RTÉ would be directly involved. I had suspected that being an issue and had suggested to the stakeholders, Arquiva taking a stake in the network in a joint venture vehicle with RTÉ NL rather than the bond. Maybe RTÉ mightn't be interested in that. Who knows. Maybe UPC would suit them better. This would certainly be good for UPC if Onevision dropped out, because UPC could drop MMDS, go for a likely more successful DTT product. I guess they would probably streamline the pricing so that cable wasn't competing with DTT. Of course it wouldn't be good for competition. What UPC could do is use the cable capacity to drop cable TV in favour of faster broadband speeds and just go totally with DTT subscription against Sky. Wouldn't be great for competition but in a way it makes more sense economic point of view to have 2 strong players rather than 2 strong and 1 weak. At least UPC would have an interest DTT pay being successful.


    I guess we'll get clarity then by Christmas. I guess that if it went to Easy TV that given RTÉ's involvement in Easy TV, that they would be in a position to progress at speed given they know the ins and outs.

    The http://www.advanced-television.com/2009/nov16_nov20.htm#t2 report came from a Sunday Business Post article from last Sunday week, which was posted here a week ago.

    I could see Arqiva becoming part of the Easy TV group considering the weak financial position of RTE, who will find it difficult to fund the network rollout and launch the commercial multiplexes with UPC. I would assume RTE and UPC have already discussed the situation and their options considering the current drawn out negotiations. Would UPC be asked to make a similar financial commitment by RTE? UPC won't give up MMDS in exchange for DTT (no such requirement exists) as they are guaranteed this spectrum, subject to review, until 2019 as I discussed here, nor will they give up cable for DTT for the same reason - limited DTT spectrum 3 x 8MHz channels now, 1 extra after ASO. For the same reason they could never compete with Sky.
    (UPC will probably lose some 2.6 GHz spectrum in next years planned review - up to 7 channels - so the 3/4 DTT multiplexes might soften the blow)

    Would Arqiva, the UK terrestrial network operator, require an input into or stake in the RTE NL network? From a legislation point of view no such option exists in the current Broadcasting Act. This was tried between 2000/02 (similar financially difficult times) but with bids in the region of €30m, down from the expected €70m the sale was cancelled.

    As I posted previously, right now RTÉ need OneVision to sign the contracts so they can begin paying the €10m per year charge for the three commercial muxes at the thirteen sites, allowing RTÉ to recoup some of their investment in equipment for the three commercial muxes and continue the rollout to the other transmitters.

    The Boxer negotiations took 274 days, the same duration for the OneVision negotiations would end on 8/2/2010, but from the article Christmas may be the cut off date.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    I seemed to have missed that. I just updated wikipedia which didn't have it. Wops...I see what you mean. It'll be interesting to see what the result will be. It'll be bad if UPC aren't interested anymore but as you say they might be as a way to just extend their reach. I was thinking more from a coverage point of view that they would return the MMDS license and get a rebate in exchange for DTT and some payment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    The Cush wrote: »
    The Boxer negotiations took 274 days, the same duration for the OneVision negotiations would end on 8/2/2010, but from the article Christmas may be the cut off date.

    I think that the regulator is right to suggest a cut of date of Christmas 2009. To let it drag until even Feb puts Easy TV in another 274 days of negotiations. One Vision and Boxer both don't want to give in and aren't happy with the current arrangements. None of the applicants were happy to apply for just one Mux the want all 3. They said it couldn't work otherwise. If they were serious about this process One Vision would be in shops this christmas. The only reason they want to wait until Sept 2010 is because of the Christmas market, if they don't get it up and running by autumn next year it becomes autumn 2011 perhaps even autumn 2012 :eek:

    The regulator in good faith provided this licence, time to take it back rather than have One Vision give it back. Act like a regulator.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭mrdtv


    [
    The regulator in good faith provided this licence, time to take it back rather than have One Vision give it back. Act like a regulator.[/QUOTE]

    Act like a regulator? Ever heard of 'regulatory capture'. This is exactly what has happened, not once but THREE times going back to 2001.

    An independent regulator would ask some very pertinent questions:

    a) Why do licensees shy away from this licence?

    b) Have we got the risk/reward mix right?

    c) Have we got the business model right?

    d) Have we got the technology right?

    e) Have we assessed the competitive dynamics correctly?

    f) Do the economics add up for bidders?

    g) Should RTENL be sold off?

    h) Are there any synergies in aligning with the UK?

    Nobody has ever conducted an independent and authoritative appraisal of these issues in Ireland which is why NOTHING EVER HAPPENS.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,355 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    At least RTE continue to invest in the rolllout of the DTT network despite of all the financial doom and gloom.

    RTE invests €4.5 million in national digital microwave network from siliconrepublic.com.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    @mrdtv 'regulatory capture'

    It seem to me that your questions all pertain to 'regulatory capture' or questions that really look at the Business rather that what is in the public interest.

    I think if you had asked if RTÉ NL should be sold off 5 years ago you would have got a yes from many people. The network isn't worth as much now. But also the problems that Cablelink have had in the last 10 years of Multinational rule, RTÉ want to keep that service. Who would buy RTÉ NL? and what would their plans be for the network.

    As for UK synergies what about EU synergies? As we have already discussed we don't have an EU wide DTT straegy other than, CLOSE YOUR ANALOGUE DOWN BY 2012. The Cush I am sure will reply telling me how the mish-mash is really well developed as a Union, possibly unwilling to critique the great EU. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭mrdtv


    Elmo wrote: »
    @mrdtv 'regulatory capture'

    It seem to me that your questions all pertain to 'regulatory capture' or questions that really look at the Business rather that what is in the public interest.

    I think if you had asked if RTÉ NL should be sold off 5 years ago you would have got a yes from many people. The network isn't worth as much now. But also the problems that Cablelink have had in the last 10 years of Multinational rule, RTÉ want to keep that service. Who would buy RTÉ NL? and what would their plans be for the network.

    As for UK synergies what about EU synergies? As we have already discussed we don't have an EU wide DTT straegy other than, CLOSE YOUR ANALOGUE DOWN BY 2012. The Cush I am sure will reply telling me how the mish-mash is really well developed as a Union, possibly unwilling to critique the great EU. :D

    Actually its even simpler than that: who can afford to write the cheque which won't bounce? I think we now know the answer after many years of procrastination. Not RTE, not BAI, not the Department and no private sector outfit.

    It makes PERFECT sense to align with the UK because of the proximity, the land border, the overspill and the easy availability of receivers. With economic recession comes inevitable pragmatism: its time to get real about what can and cannot be done. The public interest only works if it can be funded: if it can't be funded it cannot happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    The network isn't worth the money. Fine.

    But why do you think the UK should foot the bill of Irish DTT?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭mrdtv


    Elmo wrote: »
    The network isn't worth the money. Fine.

    But why do you think the UK should foot the bill of Irish DTT?

    I don't think they should: Arqiva will if they think its worth it but I suspect they won't as they can't hedge it. A practical Irish DTT system would:

    a) Recognise the realities: 1-2 FTA muxes only.

    b) Main txs only till economy picks up. Tough but that's life: get Sky.

    c) Ensure 'overspill' integration with UK rather than conflicts.

    d) Think very hard about receiver markets: its either MPEG2 T1 or MPEG4 T2. MPEG4 T1 now looks like an intermediate step and the IC/STB/IDTV community is tooling up for T2 (MPEG4 T1 is going to be incidental.) This is now 'old-hat'

    Another 274 days of posturing by various parties means they will have to use T2 as its efficiency gains will be matched by reducing costs. The thinking on Irish DTT and the timing have both been abysmal for years and I don't see that changing unless somebody has the chutzpah to take decisions and actually spend money. Freeview showed that a properly structured platform is a self-selling proposition. In Ireland that structure is far away from realisation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭Apogee


    mrdtv wrote: »
    b) Main txs only till economy picks up. Tough but that's life: get Sky.

    If that's your approach, then why not just shut down all digital transmissions until the economy picks up? After all, everyone pays the same licence fee.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Apogee wrote: »
    If that's your approach, then why not just shut down all digital transmissions until the economy picks up? After all, everyone pays the same licence fee.

    Well, no. The service is already there. Announce that close down the analogue transmitters in the 13 locations where DTT is currently working will be in 12 months, declare the tests successful and start the service now.

    Then there would be a rush to get STB into the system.

    To give the whole project a shot in the arm, RTE announce the new RTE HD channel, only available to DTT viewers, showing sports and old films in full HD.

    We could also watch the new Irish Film channel and the new Oireachtais Channel where the politicians can see if their best side is on show.

    The money has already been spent, so why not use it. Closing down the old analogue transmitters can only save money.

    You know it makes sense.

    :)


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 96,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Elmo wrote: »
    The network isn't worth the money. Fine.

    But why do you think the UK should foot the bill of Irish DTT?
    if we ask them nicely they could up the power on the NI and Welsh transmitters ;)

    MPEG4 is a no-brainer for the future
    To get HD you will need MPEG4.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,355 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Earlier today in the Dáil Minister Eamon Ryan answered two Priority Questions from Liz McManus and Simon Coveney on DTT. The following is the transcript of the debate.

    Liz McManus's question follows on from a European Commission press release on the Digital Dividend which places Ireland at the bottom of the list of EU countries, together with Poland, who will probably fail to meet both the EU recommended deadline of Jan 1st 2012 and 2012 completely for Analogue Switchoff
    Digital Terrestrial Television.

    34. Deputy Simon Coveney asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the position regarding the provision of commercial digital terrestrial television here; the future position regarding the ongoing negotiation between the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland and a consortium (details supplied); the timescale for the roll-out of a free to air DTT service; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43460/09]

    35. Deputy Liz McManus asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources his views on the EU Commissioner for the Information Society’s call for EU countries to expedite the move to digital terrestrial television; the reason for his failure to ensure the signing of a contract to deliver DTT on time; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43549/09]

    Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): I propose to take Questions Nos. 34 and 35 together.

    The Broadcasting Act 2009 provides, consolidates and updates broadcasting legislation. Part 8 of this Act replaces and updates the Broadcasting (Amendment) Act 2007, which provided for the development of digital terrestrial television in Ireland and for the closure of the national analogue TV network. Under the 2009 Act, RTE continues to have responsibility for the provision of a national free to air digital terrestrial television system with capacity to carry RTE 1, Network 2, TG4 and TV3. This new service will eventually replace the existing analogue terrestrial television service.

    The legislation also requires the newly established Broadcasting Authority of Ireland, BAI, to provide for the development of commercial DTT services. The BAI, which is an independent regulatory authority, is responsible under the 2009 Act for the licensing and competition issues raised by the Deputies. In this regard, a competition for commercial multiplexes was initiated by the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland, BCI, in 2008 under the 2007 Act and is still ongoing. The contract has been offered to the One Vision consortium. The BAI has taken over the role of the BCI in finalising this competition. While I have no direct control over or function in these matters, I am concerned on policy grounds to see an early agreement on the provision of commercial DTT services and an early time path for the implementation of such agreement. My policy objective is the achievement of the earliest switch-off of the analogue system, thereby realising valuable spectrum to enable Ireland to reap the benefits of the digital dividend..

    With regard to the roll-out of DTT services, I am informed by RTE that, to date, 13 sites have been DTT enabled to accommodate both the single free to air DTT multiplex and also three commercial DTT multiplexes. This represents the most difficult and costly element of the build plan, as it includes the main transmitter sites in Ireland. It also involves replacing several of these masts to accommodate the commercial multiplexes. With regard to the timing of the roll-out of the free to air DTT service, the legislation provides that RTE must provide a full national DTT service by the end of 2011 or such later date as I decide. RTE has not yet set a date for launching the free to air DTT service but has indicated a preference for launching in parallel with a commercial DTT operator as the availability of commercial DTT is important to assist RTE in getting a return on its investment and to ensure adequate viewer choice in the digital era.

    Regarding the target date for switching off the analogue terrestrial television services, the Broadcasting Act 2009 provides for me to establish a date or dates for analogue switch off, after consultation with RTE and the BAI, on, among other things, the availability of digital television services in the country, the availability of suitable televisions and other receivers and the take up of these services. I am in close contact with the BAI and RTE on progress in these areas. The European Commission has set 2012 as the timeline for analogue switch off throughout Europe and recent papers from the European Commission are requesting that member states should endeavour to adopt 1 January 2012 as the target date. I consider that it is in the best interests of Ireland to switch off the analogue services in 2012. In this regard, I have established a group to advise me on planning for analogue switch off and I expect to report on this in the first quarter of 2010.


    Deputy Simon Coveney: To say the Minister’s attitude towards this issue has been lethargic is an understatement. The response when I tabled the same question on 13 October was more or less the same with a few slight amendments, which do not offer anything new. We do not know whether licences will be auctioned or will be granted on a roll-over basis and we do not know anything about the spectrum allocation generally, which also needs to be addressed by the Minister in the context of the renewal of existing licences. Since the Boxer consortium pulled out of the process for the commercial provision of DTT services on a multiplex structure that RTE was to provide through its network, there has been little or no progress. The Minister said negotiations are ongoing between One Vision and RTE on the one hand and One Vision and the BAI on the other.

    Will the Minister please outline some dates in order that people’s attention can be focused and a target date is ensured by which the switch off of the analogue service will be facilitated? Does the Minister agree with RTE that a free to air multiplex service should be launched at the same time as the three commercial multiplexes, which, hopefully, One Vision will provide?


    Deputy Eamon Ryan: I, too, have been deeply frustrated about the delays. It is not a lack of ambition or intention on my part that has delayed the process. However, a process is set out in the 2007 Act, which was adopted by the 2009 Act, and we must follow it. The process will comprise a free to air service and the commercial multiplex. The contractual arrangements for the multiplex must be negotiated between the BAI and the commercial operator and between the operator and RTE regarding the transmission network. Earlier this year, I indicated when the Boxer consortium failed that I was confident the second choice in the BAI process would get up and running. I had expected that the contractual arrangements would be much clearer by early autumn and it is deeply frustrating that the process has not led to a result. I cannot have direct control over this. I must be careful not to interfere with a process set out in legislation, but I have concerns about the delays and all parties should be aware of this.

    With regard to the Deputy’s two questions, I have said to all the parties at each stage that the 2012 deadlines still holds. There is an urgency for us in switching off our analogue system to use the released spectrum for alternative uses, particularly in the broadband sector. That is an imperative and I am still looking to implement that deadline.

    The Deputy’s second question related to whether it is best to launch a unified single service. That is the preferred solution but if we cannot achieve a satisfactory outcome in the current process and it cannot deliver something that is commercially viable for the operator, which meets the requirements set out in legislation, we will have to examine alternatives and we will find a solution that meets our objectives.


    Deputy Liz McManus: The Minister is not inspiring confidence. I would like clarity on the deadline. The EU Commission has made it clear that the aim is to have analogue switched off by 1 January 2012 but the Minister has referred to 2012 in such a way as to imply this could happen some time that year and, therefore, this could happen at the end of the year. Were that the case, Ireland would be at a great disadvantage because the EU is moving ahead to ensure the exploitation of the digital dividend is realised for the economic benefit of those who can avail of it. There is an urgency, therefore, about this matter.

    Is the Minister aiming to meet the deadline of 1 January 2012? What will be the nature of this process? The Minister is a key player, not a spectator. Will this process go on indefinitely or will a timeframe be set? Mr. Michael O’Keeffe, the chief executive officer of the BAI, stated in the newspapers in September, “Next month will be critical”. Next month in that context was October but it is almost December now. Were the critical actions taken in October or are we in a stasis, with no progress being made? What are the stumbling blocks?


    Deputy Eamon Ryan: I would aim for the 1 January deadline if we could make it. When we have our system up and running, the switch off may give a commercial advantage. It may help the market to deliver but I cannot commit to this because we do not know yet. We have not signed off on the contractual arrangements for the commercial multiplexes. That is a deadline I will look to achieve but if it does not happen by 1 January, it will happen during 2012. There are complexities in that we will seek to co-ordinate our switch off with Northern Ireland for a variety of reasons. It will lead to much greater efficiencies in the transmission network and so on and the Northern Ireland authorities may not be ready for that date. We will have to negotiate that but we can only do so when we have a clear indication as to what platform will deliver the alternative television service to run that system.

    I share the frustration with the delay. Negotiations are continuing. There have been extensive negotiations between RTE and the consortium but also between the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland and the consortium. As I am not party to the negotiations I cannot give details of them. I understand they deal with transmission costs, the nature of the consortium and how it is putting its own programme together. It is frustrating that the negotiations are taking so long. If it is not possible for us to achieve an outcome in this area the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland, BAI, must, by proper legal means, set its own deadlines with regard to how we move on to alternative solutions.


    Deputy Simon Coveney: The Minister likes to paint himself as a helpless observer who is frustrated like the rest of us. He is the Minister. He has powers within the legislation to set timelines and deadlines. What happens, for example, if OneVision pulls out, as Boxer did last spring? We would have to start from scratch again. We warned about this in the spring when we said we were concerned about OneVision’s capacity to deliver. The Minister said he had full confidence it would happen. He also said RTE was required to produce free-to-air digital services by the end of this year, and not by the end of 2010. He said RTE would be required to proceed with free-to-air digital television regardless of whether there was a commercial element to the multiplexes or not. I disagreed with the Minister on that point at that time. He has now changed his position. He says the preference is to launch the free-to-air and commercial multiplex services at the same time because the only way to get people to buy into the switch-over is to give them something new.

    The thing is drifting along and the Minister is not taking a grip of it. He is allowing someone else to deal with the problem. He has a legal obligation and the power to set timelines. Will he set a time within which OneVision, RTE and the BAI must come to an agreement, after which he will change the rules and find a different way to roll out digital terrestrial television, DTT, in Ireland? He needs to do that. Otherwise we will continue to drift and the deadline will continue to move beyond 2012.


    Deputy Liz McManus: It is up to the Minister to set a timeframe. He is not convincing in saying the BAI should take total control, even if it is the negotiating body.

    The Minister now says it will be up to the BAI to look at alternatives. He is the Minister responsible. Can he outline his Department’s view of the alternatives available if the current negotiations are not successful? Everyone knows about the disagreement about the tariff and this does not engender confidence. Clearly, the Minister has looked at options. Can he outline them, as well as outlining the timeline for the conclusion of the process?


    Deputy Eamon Ryan: With regard to whether RTE should already have switched from analogue to DTT, we deliberately changed the legislation to give us flexibility in this regard and not to impose a legal requirement on RTE to switch off at the end of this year. I thought about the matter and considered it better to give a certain flexibility. This was fortunate in the event of what has happened, that is, a delay in the process, which no one wanted.

    The Deputies seem to be saying that if the process is not working we should change the rules.


    Deputy Simon Coveney: No, the Minister should set a timeframe and only change the rules if the parties cannot get things done in that time.


    Deputy Liz McManus: The Minister raised the matter of changing rules.


    Deputy Eamon Ryan: One must be very careful in that regard. When one is in a commercially contractual and legally binding process one cannot change rules half way through.


    Deputy Simon Coveney: We are not half way through. We are into extra time.


    Deputy Eamon Ryan: We are into extra time and I am far from satisfied


    Deputy Noel J. Coonan: The Minister should not handle the ball.


    Deputy Eamon Ryan: I am far from satisfied with the timelines that have evolved. That is a clear indication to the BAI that we need to seek resolution one way or the other. If we fail to reach a solution by one route, having gone through the proper legal process and procedures which are fair to all parties, we will find a resolution by other means.


    Deputy Simon Coveney: What is the timescale? The Minister will not set one.


    Deputy Eamon Ryan: No. I want a timescale which meets the objective of our being able to switch off in 2012. That is a very urgent timescale because it takes time to set up any alternative or new DTT service. The masts are built, by and large.


    Deputy Simon Coveney: I accept that.


    Deputy Eamon Ryan: The difficult infrastructural part is done. What must be agreed are the contractual arrangements for content provision.


    Deputy Simon Coveney: What is the timescale for that?


    Deputy Eamon Ryan: The timescale must be a matter of months if we are to reach the 2012 deadline.




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  • Posts: 22,785 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ryan hasn't a clue about dtt and it's commercial non viability here.
    Who's going to pay a rent for the bbc when there are free alternatives flourishing thanks to the states decade of dilly dallying and incompetence in this matter.

    As for the by now totally laughable position of having bought and installed an unwanted very expensive set of digital commercial transmitters...
    They only need one per transmitter and now they have four ie 3 extra wasted per site at a cost of tens of millions.
    Sackable incompetence in any other country.

    Worse than that they actually are wasting more money on electricity with them switched on in mount leinster at full power 24hrs carrying no service..

    They are another set of e voting machines.
    Thats what they are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭mrdtv


    The Cush wrote: »
    Earlier today in the Dáil Minister Eamon Ryan answered two Priority Questions from Liz McManus and Simon Coveney on DTT. The following is the transcript of the debate.

    Liz McManus's question follows on from a European Commission press release on the Digital Dividend which places Ireland at the bottom of the list of EU countries, together with Poland, who will probably fail to meet both the EU recommended deadline of Jan 1st 2012 and 2012 completely for Analogue Switchoff

    In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king: shame they haven't even got someone with partial vision of a DTT future This exchange tells you everything:

    a) The Government isn't going to put up a single euro.

    b) RTE won't do anything without a commercial partner to pay for those three extra multiplexes. Now unwanted!

    c) Commercial partners are walking away.

    d) They didn't zero in on the whole issue of standards, receivers, interoperability with Northern Ireland and the UK

    e) Mostly they are completely clueless.


    So nothing is going to happen as the Minister has a classic laissez faire approach.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭mrdtv


    Apogee wrote: »
    If that's your approach, then why not just shut down all digital transmissions until the economy picks up? After all, everyone pays the same licence fee.

    Which digital transmissions: the trials or commercial services operated by other operators? The former maybe. The latter are making money or at least generating revenues.


    You could just run a 1 Mux service from main sites for the foreseeable future and use Sky to complete the rural coverage with a FTV card. In France TNT has TNTSat which has a FTV Viaccess card in the satellite receivers, because the French are not going to spend the money to enable all the repeaters anytime soon.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    We discussed that endlessly in the satellite forum, payment of tV licence in certain areas should entitle you to an FTV card and an OTA enabling in future years once you have it , job done. Sky boxes are cheap commodity items....which reminds me must persuade someone I know to upgrade by threatening to leave Sky so I can get their current box off them :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Timelines have to be set. A number of months? no it is now into a number of weeks.

    One Vision if unwilling to continue with the process should take the licence back. Stop bending over backwards for a group uninterested in its development.

    Setanta and TV3 have already reduced their shareholdings. Why should Eircom have so much control over our Networks?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭Apogee


    mrdtv wrote: »
    Which digital transmissions: the trials or commercial services operated by other operators?

    Well, the entire thread is about DTT, so I was talking about DVB-T transmissions - the public mux in particular.

    mrdtv wrote: »
    You could just run a 1 Mux service from main sites for the foreseeable future and use Sky to complete the rural coverage with a FTV card. In France TNT has TNTSat which has a FTV Viaccess card in the satellite receivers, because the French are not going to spend the money to enable all the repeaters anytime soon.

    DTT on the main transmitters for the majority of the population + a FTV card to "fill in" for everyone else is fine. Even as a permanent solution, there's a lot going for it.

    However, DTT on the main transmitters + a Sky subscription for everyone else - which I read your earlier post as implying - is not the approach to take.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    And more stalling .... but who is doing the stalling.

    IMO One Vision are hoping that the BAI will make RTÉ back down from their demands.

    The question is are their demands reasonable?

    1. €20million guarantee for a €100 million network
    2. €8 - 10 million rental per year for One Vision


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Elmo wrote: »
    And more stalling .... but who is doing the stalling.

    IMO One Vision are hoping that the BAI will make RTÉ back down from their demands.

    The question is are their demands reasonable?

    1. €20million guarantee for a €100 million network
    2. €8 - 10 million rental per year for One Vision


    If the cost is €100 million for 4 muxes, then a rental for 3 muxes should be much more than €10m/year. Normal accounting would write off the capital cost over 5 years. And given the unlikely success of onevision, I would think a guarantee of 2 years rent would not be outrageous. That I assume is a bond, not cash up front. Only the 13 main transmitters are readied so far, much more to go.

    Onevision should be told to get off the pot, they have been on it long enough.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14 kelly66


    Doe's anybody know what RTE is up to with RTE international ? have they looked at what the delayed but promised RTE international is going to have on dtt one vision. free to air & freesat are growing by the day and with RTE eventually been forced to set up this channel on freesat for expats in england , rte could end up seeing more and more people switching to freesat here and not bothering to switch back to rte 1 /2 ,tv3 and tg4 on the DTT service.I think this RTE international has the potential of really shaking things up .


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    kelly66 wrote: »
    Doe's anybody know what RTE is up to with RTE international ? have they looked at what the delayed but promised RTE international is going to have on dtt one vision. free to air & freesat are growing by the day and with RTE eventually been forced to set up this channel on freesat for expats in england , rte could end up seeing more and more people switching to freesat here and not bothering to switch back to rte 1 /2 ,tv3 and tg4 on the DTT service.I think this RTE international has the potential of really shaking things up .

    Dragging their feet and who can blame them. Left to set up DAB on their own with little help from regulators, independents or government and again providing DTT tests around the country with Independent, government and the regulator dragging their feet.

    Not only that RTÉ Player is in discussions with equity about Fair City! RTÉ International won't be happening too soon.


This discussion has been closed.
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