Check out this from Mexico, and we thought all the gun murders in Dublin were bad...

The_Kew_Tour · 17-11-2009 08:01PM

I am not saying Ireland is safe I have been attacked once and lucky to have got away from few guys, but I have to say Ireland is one the most safest countries to walk any big cities herelike dublin ad cork.

I have been to every continent and about 65-70 countries and let me tell you, you be glad to live here when you see some the things in other countries that happen.

Not all I know but must murders in this country are normally from one criminal to another.

junkyard · 17-11-2009 08:33PM

Drugs, poverty and widespread political corruption, won't be long now before this is us............

Ciaran500 · 18-11-2009 09:54AM

Takeshi_Kovacs wrote: »

Here is a picture segment Boston big picture did on UN drug report... a lot of bewildering and ghastly photos are mainly from this part of Mexico, showing effects of drugwar and gangland conflicts.

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/10/2009_un_world_drug_report.html

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/03/mexicos_drug_war.html

Palmerstown_guy · 18-11-2009 11:37AM

"In December of 2006, Mexico's new President Felipe Calderón declared war on the drug cartels, reversing earlier government passiveness."

Thanks for the link, excellent report!

Only if the Irish government would do the same in our Dublin ganglands!

Overheal · 18-11-2009 03:26PM

Palmerstown_guy wrote: »

"In December of 2006, Mexico's new President Felipe Calderón declared war on the drug cartels, reversing earlier government passiveness."

Thanks for the link, excellent report!

Only if the Irish government would do the same in our Dublin ganglands!

:rolleyes:

You've clearly got The Whole Picture.

But sure if thats what you want for Ireland..

Daroxtar · 18-11-2009 03:41PM

Funny how the huge increase in killings coincided with the $1.4billion given by the US government to Mexico to stamp out drug cartels. No surprises that that cash injection is left out of the wikipedia list. We really are not getting the whole picture at all.

Overheal · 18-11-2009 03:51PM

Daroxtar wrote: »

Funny how the huge increase in killings coincided with the $4billion given by the US government to Mexico to stamp out drug cartels. No surprises that that cash injection is left out of the wikipedia list. We really are not getting the whole picture at all.

well the wonderful thing about wiki's is not that their tops are made out of rubber or their bottoms are made from a spring; but you can always Add New Information and Cite Your Sources for the betterment of us all.

Palmerstown_guy · 18-11-2009 05:04PM

Sorry but I will never ever trust wikipedia, a site that anybody can edit.

It's simply the McDonalds of information.

Overheal · 18-11-2009 05:13PM

What dont you want to believe about it? That the drug war declaration was foolhardy and it led to bloodshed on the streets, involving huge corrupt sections of the police forces and civilian and guerilla warfare?

Frankly unless you can prove that the information is wrong, its Ad Hominem.

Virtually all of the events listed in that timeline are cited. Feel free to follow the links. Here is just one of 97 such citations.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aiBNfIX2wea4&refer=latin_america

Palmerstown_guy · 19-11-2009 12:21AM

I just don't like Wikipedia, anyone can edit it....I don't trust it.

Anyway....Mexico city is worse for murders than Dublin city, isn't that the point of the post, we should take things into perspective, we're not that bad at 20 murders per year even if the press say we're the worst in Europe :rolleyes:

Pace2008 · 19-11-2009 12:41AM

Palmerstown_guy wrote: »

I just don't like Wikipedia, anyone can edit it....I don't trust it.

Anyone can edit it, but the more important articles are heavily moderated (and sometimes semi-protected) and any malicious changes or unverified claims are quickly removed. As the above poster mentioned, the articles are as reliable as their sources, which are frequently solid and numerous. It's a fantastic source of information and a good place to start research on almost any topic.

Hendrix89 · 19-11-2009 12:48AM

Heading to Acapulco early next year. There was recently a large gun battle there at a beach resort between drug cartels and the police! 18 deaths was the outcome :eek:

Pretty scary to say the least.

vinylbomb · 19-11-2009 01:13AM

Mexico is fairly safe in the south, but from my time there talking to people that had traveled down, the farther north you go from Guadalahara the ropier it gets (Monterrey is meant to be lovely though, and an exception to the violence, as is the southern Baja peninsula).

Gorgeous country, and exceptionally friendly people - I'd go so far as to say almost like the Irish with a tan! Its not hard as a tourist to avoid all the sh*t that goes on there, any local will set you straight and say where is safe to go, once you stick to that you're fine

Overheal · 19-11-2009 01:21AM

Hendrix89 wrote: »

Heading to Acapulco early next year. There was recently a large gun battle there at a beach resort between drug cartels and the police! 18 deaths was the outcome

Pretty scary to say the least.

Google St. Patricks battalion.

Flash your Paddy-Port. They love you over there.

Palmerstown_guy wrote: »

I just don't like Wikipedia, anyone can edit it....I don't trust it.

If thats all you have to defend your position with :rolleyes:

I think we can agree that declaring war on the Crime Organizations operating in Ireland is not exactly the brightest way to go about it.

Anyway....Mexico city is worse for murders than Dublin city, isn't that the point of the post, we should take things into perspective, we're not that bad at 20 murders per year even if the press say we're the worst in Europe :rolleyes:

And Saudi Arabia and Sharia Law commit unthinkable acts against people for slights: Does it make the situation at Guantanamo Bay any less favorable?

Similarly pointing to Mexico and the hundreds dead and the rolling heads in the streets - Does it honestly make it any less necessary for Ireland to look at itself and realize it has a growing violence problem that needs to be nipped in the bud?

Palmerstown_guy · 19-11-2009 09:27AM

The thing about wikipedia, it may be moderated, but sometimes it may take hours if not days before any moderation to occur. And please note it's created by non-professionals, so that is not good for immediate verifiability. I stick by my point it is the McDonalds of the info age and unreliable. But that's my opinion, so let's leave it at that

"Does it honestly make it any less necessary for Ireland to look at itself and realize it has a growing violence problem that needs to be nipped in the bud?

Yes! Ireland and especially Dublin city needs to assertive action on its drug gangland murders. 20 years ago we didn't have 20 murders on the streets of Dublin per year...what happened? It just didn't happen for no reason and we have to ask ourselves as a nation why and how can we prevent it from getting much much worse. Passiveness is what we DON'T need!

wudangclan · 19-11-2009 09:56AM

Palmerstown_guy wrote: »

The thing about wikipedia, it may be moderated, but sometimes it may take hours if not days before any moderation to occur. And please note it's created by non-professionals, so that is not good for immediate verifiability. I stick by my point it is the McDonalds of the info age and unreliable. But that's my opinion, so let's leave it at that

"Does it honestly make it any less necessary for Ireland to look at itself and realize it has a growing violence problem that needs to be nipped in the bud?

Yes! Ireland and especially Dublin city needs to assertive action on its drug gangland murders. 20 years ago we didn't have 20 murders on the streets of Dublin per year...what happened? It just didn't happen for no reason and we have to ask ourselves as a nation why and how can we prevent it from getting much much worse. Passiveness is what we DON'T need!

Have you considered the option that if the drug industry was legalised and moved away from the hands of psychotic criminals that the majoriy of these killings would cease overnight (also there would be less deaths resulting from the impurities in drugs and through better drug-use education).

Palmerstown_guy · 19-11-2009 02:31PM

"Have you considered the option that if the drug industry was legalised and moved away from the hands of psychotic criminals that the majoriy of these killings would cease overnight (also there would be less deaths resulting from the impurities in drugs and through better drug-use education)."

Yes. But I think it's unrealistic. Need to educate everyday folk who buy from these murderers, if you use illegal drugs you are on the murderers side.

Maybe more investigations by journalists would also help, there is not enough....journalists run scared here in Dublin because of what happened to Veronica Guerin. The drug dealing gangs are just laughing at us and have it their own way.

Pace2008 · 19-11-2009 02:37PM

Palmerstown_guy wrote: »

Yes. But I think it's unrealistic. Need to educate everyday folk who buy from these murderers, if you use illegal drugs you are on the murderers side.

It's unrealistic to expect people to stop using drugs. Everyone and their grandmother already knows the drug trade is a bloody one. If there were legal outlets for obtaining psychoactives everyone would use them and cripple the gangs within months.

wudangclan · 19-11-2009 02:46PM

Palmerstown_guy wrote: »

Yes. But I think it's unrealistic. Need to educate everyday folk who buy from these murderers, if you use illegal drugs you are on the murderers side.

Maybe more investigations by journalists would also help, there is not enough....journalists run scared here in Dublin because of what happened to Veronica Guerin. The drug dealing gangs are just laughing at us and have it their own way.

I'm a regular user of certain illegal drugs.That's my choice and i use those drugs moderately and without causing harm to others.
Given the huge size of the demand for drugs and the potential profits to be made it's hardly surprising dangerous criminals have moved in to control the markets.This is a failing on behalf of the government (or governments) who perpetuate this situation wasting my tax money fighting an unwinnable war and who contribute to the deaths on our streets. (I offer as a different perspective with which to view the situation)

(also if you want to quote a post double- click on "quote" at the bottom right of the persons post and you get to reply with their post included)

Palmerstown_guy · 19-11-2009 03:28PM

"I'm a regular user of certain illegal drugs.That's my choice and i use those drugs moderately and without causing harm to others."

What!???Not directly but indirectly you are a big part of the problem! You are what's called the demand that keeps these murderers in business. You should be ashamed of yourself.

wudangclan · 19-11-2009 07:01PM

Palmerstown_guy wrote: »

"I'm a regular user of certain illegal drugs.That's my choice and i use those drugs moderately and without causing harm to others."

What!???Not directly but indirectly you are a big part of the problem! You are what's called the demand that keeps these murderers in business. You should be ashamed of yourself.

...and when i buy a mobile phone ,or other electronic device ,an essential component of which is coltan,most of which is found in The Congo ,I'm supporting the daily killing,maiming and rape that takes place there for control of natural resources.
Every time I fill my bike with petrol I'm supporting the killing of people in Iraq,Afghanistan,Nigeria or torture in Saudi Arabia etc.
When I bought a banana from Fyffes or Chiquita during the banana wars I was supporting even more deaths.
When I buy any soya product I support slavery, the persecution of indigenous peoples in the Amazon and the destruction of the rainforest.
Every time I pay tax I support the C.A.P. which subsidises the big agricultural companies which sell their excess product in 3rd World countries ,skewing the markets there ,leading to starvation and migration to the 1st world (and the inherent problems contained therein)
And so on and so on and so on...
That's the big,bad,fucked up world we live in.
Now if we had a cannabis industry like the ones in the Netherlands or California or Oregon or British Columbia or the italian cantons of Switzerland etc. I wouldn't have to buy on the black market and I look forward to the day that comes...and it is coming P.Guy.
Respectfully.

marko91 · 20-11-2009 03:42AM

the future for ireland right there?

anonymous_joe · 20-11-2009 04:52AM

Further proof that the only way to control drugs and remove drug related crime is to legalise them.

Palmerstown_guy · 20-11-2009 10:17AM

Wudangclan. I really cannot believe what you wrote!!

That is lamest excuse to justify you buying drugs from a drug dealer!

All those other items (bananas, phones..) you mention are perfectly legal to purchase in todays law.

You are purchasing something that is against the law. That's a criminal offence. You are feeding money into the pockets of these gangland murderers....do you want even more than 20 murdered per year next year in Dublin?

I hope that makes you happy and sleep better at night.

Dublin will never recover from its gangland murder problem because of "normal" people like you who feed these despicable murderers.

wudangclan · 20-11-2009 10:40AM

Palmerstown_guy wrote: »

Wudangclan. I really cannot believe what you wrote!!

That is lamest excuse to justify you buying drugs from a drug dealer!

All those other items (bananas, phones..) you mention are perfectly legal to purchase in todays law.

You are purchasing something that is against the law. That's a criminal offence. You are feeding money into the pockets of these gangland murderers....do you want even more than 20 murdered per year next year in Dublin?

I hope that makes you happy and sleep better at night.

Dublin will never recover from its gangland murder problem because of "normal" people like you who feed these despicable murderers.

My point being there's a tainted story behind a lot of products.
I buy my cannabis,someone may or may not have been killed in getting it to me.You buy your mobile phone someone may or may not have been killed or raped to provide the components for said phone.What's the difference?
If you're so concerned about deaths start to investigate the products you buy ...i've given you a good starting point.Whether they're legal or illegal is immaterial.
Take alcohol; A third of car accident fatalities in Ireland involve alcohol. 3.2 percent of all deaths worldwide are attributable to alcohol according to a study in 2000,that's about 6000 deaths a year in Ireland. Ditto nicotine,ditto barbituates. You're 20 or so gangland murders already pale in comparison (and I've only mentioned 3 products so far,all legal)
That gangsters sign up to play a game of cops and robbers and start popping each other when they perceive each other to break the rules of the game doesn't lose me one iota of sleep. (cannabis helps in that regard).
Again,I reiterate,if the drugs markets were made legal the gangland murders would disappear overnight .

Palmerstown_guy · 20-11-2009 10:55AM

"they're legal or illegal is immaterial." - that is not true. There is a laws in our country and if we agree with them or not is just a matter of opinion.

The bottom line, this miserable sad excuse for a government should not be passive to this problem, we DO have a MAJOR MAJOR DRUG problem in Dublin, which causes rampant crime and results in gangland murders in Dublin (average 20 per year) due to this lawlessness.

Legalise maybe an option, and maybe Cannibis is a good contender for some sort of first initiative. I agree there.

Whether, cocaine, heroine which is also hawked on the streets of Dublin everyday, is, ..not sure.

wudangclan · 20-11-2009 11:14AM

Palmerstown_guy wrote: »

"they're legal or illegal is immaterial." - that is not true. There is a laws in our country and if we agree with them or not is just a matter of opinion.

The bottom line, this miserable sad excuse for a government should not be passive to this problem, we DO have a MAJOR MAJOR DRUG problem in Dublin, which causes rampant crime and results in gangland murders in Dublin (average 20 per year) due to this lawlessness.

Legalise maybe an option, and maybe Cannibis is a good contender for some sort of first initiative. I agree there.

Whether, cocaine, heroine which is also hawked on the streets of Dublin everyday, is, ..not sure.

The rampant crime is caused by the price of the drugs and addicts having to find the money to pay for them. Take a kilo of cocaine ,typically $1000 to $1500 in Columbia wholesales in Ireland for something like 50,000 euros.The same goes for smack.And thats before they're diluted for sale on the streets. A kilo of soap grade hash costing about 100 euros in Morocco wholesales in Ireland for 1400 -1600 euros.
These kind of mark-ups don't exist in legal markets.
It's estimated 1/3 to 1/2 of acquisitive crime is by drug addicts feeding their habits.Now imagine if you will a situation where drug use has been legalised.The prices fall therefore less crime. No gangland murders.Fortunes saved housing prisoners.Increased v.a.t. returns. The guards no longer having to spend resources tackling illegal drugs. Imagine now,the time and resources the guards would have to tackle all other crime and imagine all the other money freed up which is now being used fighting a losing battle.(the war on drugs is 100 years old this year by the way.)
Although some of this freed up cash would of course be used in drug treatment ,like the situation in Portugal after decriminlization of all drugs there (where drug use went down ,in all drugs,when this policy was implemented. Forbidden fruit anyone?).
And as regards legality or illegality should people acquiesce to laws just becuase they're laws. Bollix. I'll alter my consciousness as I see fit,thank you very much.

genericguy · 20-11-2009 01:03PM

Palmerstown_guy wrote: »

do you want even more than 20 murdered per year next year in Dublin?

i do, because the vast majority of people who receive a bullet to the head have it coming.

Palmerstown_guy · 20-11-2009 02:00PM

Would you say that about Veronica Guerin?

Who at least was brave enough to at least try to investigate the scum of Dublin before being gunned down by the murderers.

marko91 · 20-11-2009 07:07PM

Palmerstown_guy wrote: »

Would you say that about Veronica Guerin?

Who at least was brave enough to at least try to investigate the scum of Dublin before being gunned down by the murderers.

he said vast majority, not all of them!...hes right! most people shot in ireland deserved it in the end.

Check out this from Mexico, and we thought all the gun murders in Dublin were bad...

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