Death penalty should be revisited, says ex-judge

General Zod · 16-11-2009 11:38AM

Irish judiciary talking about dishonesty.

Take a pay cut.

Dyr · 16-11-2009 11:46AM

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

America is 'more totalitarian' than other countries in the way that the government 'strives to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible'.

I would say that Ireland and the UK have far more interference in citizens private life's than the states. Americans tend to take their civil liberties pretty seriously

Thirdfox · 16-11-2009 11:51AM

Karoma wrote: »

It wouldn't get enough votes. It's seen as a barbaric a practice that only totalitarian regimes like China or America maintain.

You forgot other "totalitarian regimes" such as South Korea, Japan, Philippines and India.

Too bad your sensationalist post doesn't match up with the facts. I'm generally against the death penalty but when people post up ridiculous claims like yours it doesn't do the debate any justice.

senordingdong · 16-11-2009 11:54AM

I'm very much in favour of it but the fact is it would never work in this country.

It would be wrapped up in red tape and would take forever to get anythign done.

Also, I don't think it would have any effect as a deterant.
I just believe that society doesn't need some people.

biko · 16-11-2009 11:54AM

So far we've had calls for death penalty in AH for burning dogs/ robbing people/ being from Limerick/ being from Dublin/ beating & robbing old people/ car & house alarms going off in the night.

I think it's safe to say the death penalty will pass in a referendum.

The penalty would not work as a deterrent, people are just too stupid and drunk to think of the consequences of their actions.

wudangclan · 16-11-2009 11:58AM

Magnus wrote: »

So far we've had calls for death penalty in AH for burning dogs/ robbing people/ being from Limerick/ being from Dublin/ beating & robbing old people/ car & house alarms going off in the night.

I think it's safe to say the death penalty will pass in a referendum.

The penalty would not work as a deterrent, people are just too stupid and drunk to think of the consequences of their actions.

How the tide has turned since 2001.

Kev_ps3 · 16-11-2009 12:05PM

Kill em all and let god sort em out;)

Lux23 · 16-11-2009 12:11PM

senordingdong wrote: »

I'm very much in favour of it but the fact is it would never work in this country.

It would be wrapped up in red tape and would take forever to get anythign done.

Also, I don't think it would have any effect as a deterant.
I just believe that society doesn't need some people.

Then why are you in favour of it? Do you think the state murdering people would be fun to watch or something?

CliffHuxtabel · 16-11-2009 12:19PM

Forget about the death penalty... they should start lobotomizing the murderers, rapists, etc

that way they would no longer be a threat to everyone else but they could still keep their stinking lives

syklops · 16-11-2009 12:24PM

I think the main reason most people in Ireland are against it is because we have not suffered any one individual crime which warranted it.

We have not had any Ted Bundy types in this country, at least none that have been caught. I do believe in the death penalty but only for people who will never be able to make up for what they did.

Take Saddam Hussein. If he had gone to prison he would happily have spent the rest of his life appealing to various courts, and literally millions extra would have been spent on a person who didn't deserve it. Dozens of people died needlessly during his court case. How many more would have died during his various appeals processes?

drkpower · 16-11-2009 12:28PM

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Says who? Gandhi certainly didn't agree, but you are objectively right and somebody else is objectively wrong??

I dont know all of Gandhi's views but I would be dissapointed in him if he believed it would be 'wrong' to kill another person to prevent them from killing you or your loved one, where it is the only way you can prevent them from so doing. The alternative, that you simply sit back and watch while someone kills you and yours is a disgraceful attitude.

I doubt that was his view. If you have a reference, I'd appreciate it.

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Why is it not nice? I mean if it's morally fine, why would you feel something is not nice?

Are you just being silly for the sake of it?
Its morally fine to kill an animal to provide food for your family; it's not 'nice' to actually kill the animal.
Yawn...

Caoimhín · 16-11-2009 12:30PM

drkpower wrote: »

I am standing on the roof of a skyscraper and am about to shoot your oinly child; the only way to stop me is to push me off the edge. What would you do?

Moral absolutes may sound attractive but they inevitably lead to absurd results.

True, I mean the state has no right to take the life of any person.

amacachi · 16-11-2009 12:31PM

I've said before a while back that I don't really agree with the death penalty but what annoys me about getting rid of it is that the ceiling for sentences is suddenly brought down a lot, meaning that all sentences have to be shortened to stay proportional.

Still, not going to happen for a long time if ever.

syklops · 16-11-2009 12:36PM

Magnus wrote: »

The penalty would not work as a deterrent, people are just too stupid and drunk to think of the consequences of their actions.

No it wouldnt work as a deterrent. The majority of murders we have in this country are gang-related which means drugs. There are very few 80 year old gang lords going around, so any one who gets involved does not really believe that they are going to die peacefully in their sleep as an Octogenarian.

me_right_one · 16-11-2009 12:37PM

Bring it back for paedophiles, and supporters of the paedo industry:mad::mad::mad:

senordingdong · 16-11-2009 12:49PM

Lux23 wrote: »

Then why are you in favour of it? Do you think the state murdering people would be fun to watch or something?

I'm sure some people would find it entertaining but that's not what my point was about.
I'm in favour of it because for many criminals, I see no alternative.
Few go to prison for any reasonable length of time and those that do, seem to take forever getting sent there.
Many commit extremely heinous crimes, and get released from their mickey mouse sentance only to re-offend.

If they are truely bad people who re-commit unthinkable crimes, and prison is not reforming them...what alternative is there?

aDeener · 16-11-2009 01:01PM

Caoimhín wrote: »

I dont believe it is right to take another's life under any circumstances.

so if some fucker was putting a gun to your childs head and about to pull the trigger you would think it wrong for someone to take said fucker out? :rolleyes:

prinz · 16-11-2009 01:20PM

What we need is a referendum on prison, take away all rights/privileges... do away with 'open' prisons such as castlereagh, jump suits and shackles mandatory, work details, a life sentence to mean a life sentence, solitary confinement punishments etc. Three strikes for any convictions to lead to an automatic minimum term, mandatory sentencing for some crimes.

Prison in Ireland is seen as a soft touch. Too many bleeding hearts worry more about prisoners than they do about victims in this country. I suggest we hire prison builders and managers from Texas, and let them run the prisons as a business.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1017/1224256900212.html

this is why our society is a joke, not NAMA or anything else. 11 years for "manslaughter".......i.e. drag a man minding his own business from his car and kick him to death, on top of 65 previous convictions...

Lux23 · 16-11-2009 02:46PM

senordingdong wrote: »

I'm sure some people would find it entertaining but that's not what my point was about.
I'm in favour of it because for many criminals, I see no alternative.
Few go to prison for any reasonable length of time and those that do, seem to take forever getting sent there.
Many commit extremely heinous crimes, and get released from their mickey mouse sentance only to re-offend.

If they are truely bad people who re-commit unthinkable crimes, and prison is not reforming them...what alternative is there?

Leaving them in prison like we do now. The death penalty isn't going to deter anyone either so why bring it back.

Your post by the way is one of the coldest things I have ever read.

senordingdong · 16-11-2009 02:54PM

Lux23 wrote: »

Leaving them in prison like we do now. The death penalty isn't going to deter anyone either so why bring it back.

Your post by the way is one of the coldest things I have ever read.

And my post is about the coldest people in 'society'.

No, the death penalty isn't going to deter anyone, I already said that.

Leaving them in prison like we do now

What makes you think every murderer/rapist/peadophile goes to prison?
And what makes you think they stay there?

Why bring back death penalty?
To put down criminals.

Holsten · 16-11-2009 03:08PM

Great idea, shame it won't happen though. Joke of a goverment. Joke of a justice system. Joke of a country.

MagicMarker · 16-11-2009 03:08PM

And yet, you're still here?

Liam Byrne · 16-11-2009 03:18PM

There used to be an old saying that "the punishment should fit the crime"; this is 100% true in that (a) if a punishment is too severe, it'll leave someone with a chip on their shoulder, and (b) if it's too lenient, someone will say "fair enough, I'll do it again".

For SERIOUS crimes (drugs gang hits, shooting at Gardai, repeated murders) I'm all for it, provided that we can be 100% certain that we have the right person. So yes, if phrased properly with enough safeguards (repeat offenders, known criminals, caught in the act or on security cameras, etc), I'd be in favour of the death penalty.....that would avoid the "what about the Birmingham Six" angle to this.

And - in the absence of the above, bare-essentials jails for proven, repeat, serious criminals; damp ****-holes underground with the bare essentials of bread and water. After all, most of their victims are in tiny boxes underground.

This "he was known to Gardai" bull**** REALLY gets on my wick; normal people aren't "known to Gardai", so if they knew about them from previous crimes, why wasn't he in jail ?

I know Gardai get lots of stick, but the issue is the "bleeding heart brigade" and the judiciary....if my dad died (which he did) or my relationship broke up (as has happened in the past) it's no excuse for me to go out committing crimes! We had feck-all money and facilities growing up, but none of us turned into antisocial criminals or thugs.

NO "suspended sentences" or "concurrent sentences" for serious crimes. ABSOLUTELY no leniency for repeat offenders; one chance - blow it and you're getting the full whack.

The scum that ruin life for everybody need to be stopped sooner rather than later.

And before I get flamed for the above, remember that it's their actions that caused this, not our decisions on how to deal with those actions......no sickening actions = no punishment whatsoever.

The ball is in their court to behave acceptably; not in ours to facilitate - or even rehabilitate -them.

If we don't have the cash to look after decent old people, then we definitely don't have the cash to pander to scum.

Kev_ps3 · 16-11-2009 03:33PM

It should also be for the politicians and bankers who caused the mess in this country. They caused more harm then any drug dealer or murderer.

Mr.Obvious · 16-11-2009 04:05PM

Why people cannot be trusted with the power over other peoples lives;

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

It should also be for the politicians and bankers who caused the mess in this country. They caused more harm then any drug dealer or murderer.

Liam Byrne · 16-11-2009 04:06PM

I just thought of a shorter version of the above post.

No, I don't want the death penalty; I don't want murder either.

So I guess if the scum insist on imposing the latter on us, the entire wish gets negated.

And as I said, that's not my fault.

Liam Byrne · 16-11-2009 04:08PM

Mr.Obvious wrote: »

Why people cannot be trusted with the power over other peoples lives;

Whatever about the scum in the Dail (which we can get rid of soon), there's no equivalent way of voting away the scum.

So if they give themselves "power over other peoples lives", and we're all equal, it means they - the scum have GIVEN us that power.

They've made the rules as to how we treat them.

meditraitor · 16-11-2009 04:10PM

The death penalty is not a deterent, its revenge

AckwelFoley · 16-11-2009 04:10PM

The Prison in Series 3 of Prison break in Panama is what id like to see for serious repeat offenders.

Let them govern themselves, never to see the light of day

Handsome Bob · 16-11-2009 04:20PM

We don't need it, what we need are prisons that will put the fear of god into the real scumbags of society. The prospect of prison should terrify them.

Death penalty should be revisited, says ex-judge

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