Are children of the 90's and early 2000's capable of surviving the recession?

darkman2 · 12-11-2009 03:49AM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Fitch downgraded us to AA-, he said we are at AA-. So he is using facts (moreso than you as you didn't even know what our rating is). And going by the stories I read, they said the outlook was stable and not negative which means it's unlikely we'll be downgraded further.....like he also said.

Your wrong - AA- means unstable not stable. Stable is AA. Im tellin yeh.... the outlook by UK based Fitch (btw im bloody angry at rating agencies - quick to do us and not the UK) is unstable. But like I say these guys have been very lenient with our neighbour and ruthless with us. Just goes to show how small and unimportant Ireland is.

dan719 · 12-11-2009 03:53AM

darkman2 wrote: »

Your wrong - AA- means unstable not stable. Stable is AA. Im tellin yeh.... the outlook by UK based Fitch (btw im bloody angry at rating agencies - quick to do us and not the UK) is unstable. But like I say these guys have been very lenient with our neighbour and ruthless with us. Just goes to show how small and unimportant Ireland is.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1105/breaking41.htm

This article states that they see the outlook as stable. Have you anything to contradict that? AA- does not equal unstable.

AlmightyCushion · 12-11-2009 03:53AM

darkman2 wrote: »

Your wrong - AA- means unstable not stable. Stable is AA. Im tellin yeh.... the outlook by UK based Fitch (btw im bloody angry at rating agencies - quick to do us and not the UK) is unstable. But like I say these guys have been very lenient with our neighbour and ruthless with us. Just goes to show how small and unimportant Ireland is.

http://www.reuters.com/article/usDollarRpt/idUSLF63972720091104

Fitch downgraded Ireland's long-term rating to 'AA- ' from 'AA+', with a stable outlook

What part of "with a stable outlook" says we're unstable, I'd love to know. And some more because I was bored.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/irish-credit-rating-downgraded-by-fitch-2009-11-04

Fitch said. "All these factors have helped stabilise the outlook for Ireland's creditworthiness,"

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/outlook-stable-as-credit-rating-cut-to-recession-low-1934948.html

but Fitch said that there was a "stable" outlook.

darkman2 · 12-11-2009 04:02AM

AA- means unstable. No matter what anyone says. I think the word "however"
in there means I am right. The situation is unstable. Not stable - what they will feed Irish newspapers. AA- means unstable to investors. We don't even have many, if any investors, because the ECB is propping the country up!

chevy · 12-11-2009 04:03AM

So darkman what do you suggest we do about all this doom and gloom? Everyone cannot leave this country like you.

dan719 · 12-11-2009 04:05AM

darkman2 wrote: »

AA- means unstable. No matter what anyone says. I think the word "however"
in there means I am right. The situation is unstable. Not stable - what they will feed Irish newspapers. AA- means unstable to investors. We don't even have many, if any investors, because the ECB is propping the country up!

So far this year, NTMA has raised over 32 billion on debt markets. Many of these have been oversubscribed. Most investors believe Ireland will not be allowed go to the wall, and that the premium on German bonds make Ireland worth a punt, so to speak.

Seriously, if things are that bad, and you are that rich, why not just leave?

darkman2 · 12-11-2009 04:07AM

dan719 wrote: »

So far this year, NTMA has raised over 32 billion on debt markets. Seriously, if things are that bad, and you are that rich, why not just leave?

90% from the ECB - and I am leaving. You think im stayin here to be taxed for the public service and other deluded people? No. And many others are going to do the same.

darkman2 · 12-11-2009 04:10AM

chevy wrote: »

So darkman what do you suggest we do about all this doom and gloom? Everyone cannot leave this country like you.

Cut the Public Sector bill by 24bn annually. Simple. I don't want to see my country like this. I am proud of this country but it's ****ed up big time. Simple fact is we all paid ourselves too much and the chickens are coming home to roost. Alot of our problem is in fact not banks and developers but Trade Unions walking in and out of government buildings with obscene pay increases for public sector workers despite the warnings.

OPENROAD · 12-11-2009 04:13AM

dan719 wrote: »

So far this year, NTMA has raised over 32 billion on debt markets. Many of these have been oversubscribed. Most investors believe Ireland will not be allowed go to the wall, and that the premium on German bonds make Ireland worth a punt, so to speak.

Seriously, if things are that bad, and you are that rich, why not just leave?

As you say no way this will happen to a Eurozone country nor will you see the IMF being allowed to come in.

The opinion seems to be that our rating won't be downgraded further on the basis that the govt will be aggressive in its budget tightening. The govt will have to continue on this path though.

AlmightyCushion · 12-11-2009 04:14AM

darkman2 wrote: »

AA- means unstable. No matter what anyone says. I think the word "however"
in there means I am right. The situation is unstable. Not stable - what they will feed Irish newspapers. AA- means unstable to investors. We don't even have many, if any investors, because the ECB is propping the country up!

So let me get this straight. Fitch have given us an unstable rating but have said we're stable. Why would they say we are stable and give us a rating that says we are unstable? I'd honestly like to know.

OPENROAD · 12-11-2009 04:16AM

darkman2 wrote: »

90% from the ECB - and I am leaving. You think im stayin here to be taxed for the public service and other deluded people? No. And many others are going to do the same.

Not going to see any more, the govt now have to make the cuts.

jetfiremuck · 12-11-2009 04:16AM

chevy wrote: »

So darkman what do you suggest we do about all this doom and gloom? Everyone cannot leave this country like you.

I think eyeryone has to decide to leave or stay. The 5 years or so that it takes to sort the country will pass whether you stay or go, the difference being how much you would be ahead by leaving. You also get a better perspective when you leave. Remember you have only one life to live.

dan719 · 12-11-2009 04:24AM

darkman2 wrote: »

90% from the ECB -

and I am leaving. You think im stayin here to be taxed for the public service and other deluded people? No. And many others are going to do the same.

As far as I understand it, and I may be wrong, this is not the case at all. So unless you have a link from a reputable source, I'm calling shenanigans.

So why are we even having this discussion?

Edit. You're full of hot air, go to bed and sleep off the drink;

http://www.ntma.ie/Publications/2009/Ireland_5_9pc_Treasury_Bond_2019_Press_Release.pdf

http://www.ntma.ie/Publications/2009/Rt_Funding_q2_2009.pdf

Raze_them_all · 12-11-2009 05:39AM

Sharpshooter wrote: »

Pulls back trigger..

/are you sure?:pac:

You pull back the hammer, Pulling back the trigger shoots him, thus leaving no point in asking if they're sure :P

ElaElaElano · 12-11-2009 05:53AM

The children of this generation will have to learn, like the rest of us, that we lived temporarily in a false economy and the lifestyles of €50 pocket money and second homes in the south of France are unrealistic and impossible to sustain. And that's it.

There's too much sensationalism in the original post. If it's not the complete and utter breakdown of Irish society as we know it, it's swine flu part two: Ukranian zombie mutation, if it's not that it's Iran getting ready to blow us up, if it's not that it's something else that will trigger the explosion of Sellafield.

MAYBE we've come into economic difficulty having overspent wildly in the last 15 years and now have to tighten our belts and learn a few lessons about sustainable living. Maybe that's it. Maybe there'll be no revolution, social meltdown, constant rioting and 99% of the population below the international poverty line.

Maybe we'll just get on with things and adapt to our more modest resources.

Raze_them_all · 12-11-2009 06:00AM

ElaElaElano wrote: »

The children of this generation will have to learn, like the rest of us, that we lived temporarily in a false economy and the lifestyles of €50 pocket money and second homes in the south of France are unrealistic and impossible to sustain. And that's it.

There's too much sensationalism in the original post. If it's not the complete and utter breakdown of Irish society as we know it, it's swine flu part two: Ukranian zombie mutation, if it's not that it's Iran getting ready to blow us up, if it's not that it's something else that will trigger the explosion of Sellafield.

MAYBE we've come into economic difficulty having overspent wildly in the last 15 years and now have to tighten our belts and learn a few lessons about sustainable living. Maybe that's it. Maybe there'll be no revolution, social meltdown, constant rioting and 99% of the population below the international poverty line.

Maybe we'll just get on with things and adapt to our more modest resources.

My bollocks what lil fuppers were getting this???
If I wanted money from my parents I had to work my nads off all week for like 30 quid!

brendansmith · 12-11-2009 11:21PM

LAds,

Is anyone else outr there worried about starvation due to the recession like the OP?

I cant stop thinking about this thread!

Slugs · 13-11-2009 12:42AM

brendansmith wrote: »

LAds,

Is anyone else outr there worried about starvation due to the recession like the OP?

I cant stop thinking about this thread!

No. What I'm worried about is really how far we're going to go down the ****ing hill before the Irish people will wake the **** up, smell the smoke, and realise there is something terribly wrong with this country. This whole "sure it'll all be alright" attitude is getting us no where, while we're being pushed slowly down the river to the waterfall. And by the time it does hit us, the famine will have looked like a minor drought, because not only is Ireland boned, but everywhere else is to. Think I'm joking? Take a look around, and realise how boned you are.

To answer the OP, it all depends on the circumstances. IMO no, my generation is full of morons who's social awareness is limited to how much so and so downed on Saturday night, and who got a car. I have absolutely no hope for my generation, or this country, and am going to gtfo while I still can. And I highly recommend others do the same...

netwhizkid · 13-11-2009 01:01AM

Prime Time tonight was fairly sobering, If you missed it you can watch it here on RTÉ player. This country is starting resemble the Ireland of the 1930's with the exception of the Internet, double glazing. It is like Angelas Ashes deja vu, and it never stops fecking raining. No wonder poor old Frank McCourt clogged it this year, it must have been like some awful nightmare from his childhood.

Sharpshooter · 13-11-2009 01:06AM

Raze_them_all wrote: »

You pull back the hammer, Pulling back the trigger shoots him, thus leaving no point in asking if they're sure :P

Opps!
You are correct, I should have said hammer.:o

/ thus shooting myself in the foot..

Agent J · 13-11-2009 01:42AM

Good gods.

Its a recession not another famine.

Pick up some books on the famine and take a good read of them.
Get some perpective on the matter.

Roof over head? - Check
Enough food to eat? - Check.

Everything is pretty much secondary.

Already miles ahead of most Irish generations.

dyl10 · 13-11-2009 01:43AM

Assuming their parents did a good job, they'll be fine.

dyl10 · 13-11-2009 01:48AM

Slugs wrote: »

No. What I'm worried about is really how far we're going to go down the ****ing hill before the Irish people will wake the **** up, smell the smoke, and realise there is something terribly wrong with this country. This whole "sure it'll all be alright" attitude is getting us no where,

uhmm, it will be alright.

What do you mean this attitude is getting us no where?
These things don't just get fixed in a couple of months:rolleyes:

ejmaztec · 13-11-2009 02:18AM

Agent J wrote: »

Good gods.

Its a recession not another famine.

Pick up some books on the famine and take a good read of them.
Get some perpective on the matter.

Roof over head? - Check
Enough food to eat? - Check.

Everything is pretty much secondary.

Already miles ahead of most Irish generations.

As Confucius once said "The future is blight":(

OPENROAD · 13-11-2009 02:41AM

dyl10 wrote: »

uhmm, it will be alright.

What do you mean this attitude is getting us no where?
These things don't just get fixed in a couple of months:rolleyes:

Think he is possibly referring to the fact that some people believe we can get out of our economic difficulties without the cutbacks, supporting the banks etc...

,

Timistry · 13-11-2009 02:45AM

oh lads come on. Young people these days are more grounded then they they are given credit for. This perception that young people were spoilt by their parents is a false one that was exacerbated by programs on RTE etc. Like that one recently where these this guy took charge of a few families finances. Young wans in meath who thought they were D4 divas crying because they could not go clothes shopping every week!! Total BS:rolleyes: Many of my friends (agus Mise) worked our asses off during the summer and at weekends to pay our way through college. Just because the media portrayed these celtic tiger cubs being funded my their parents on the celtic tiger gravy train does not mean the rest of use where on it. By the way it was a one way ticket, as there will be no going back to those obsene days. the cuntry... is fupped and that is a fact.

amacachi · 13-11-2009 02:54AM

Not all of us youngsters had money thrown at us BTW, I went from 8 til 20 without a new games console, had a computer which was about 9 years old before it was replaces, never left the country til I was well into my teens (even then it was England for a wedding:P).
Luckily I was too young to remember when things were really tough for my parents, but we've never had a huge amount more than what we needed day-to-day. And ya know what? I couldn't care less. A stupid night out here and there isn't a big deal for me and all my clothes added together probably come to around 100 quid. I'm not too worried for the future.

Also if darkman is right then I really hope my uncle lets us farm some of his land for food, it's sitting idle and once we go bankrupt there'll be no more subsidies for that. :pac:

kravmaga · 13-11-2009 03:02AM

darkman2 wrote: »

I can see starvation returning. The EU will kick this country out and throw us out of the Eurozone. The ECB is not going to keep giving this country 500 million a week just to keep us from starving. They are already threatening Greece with expulsion. We are in an even worse posistion. So scary is our posistion to them that they are acting like charity workers. Telling us we have till this year and that to sort it out. The patience and money is going to run out.

+ we won't be able to service the debt anyway. Politicians are not being honest about how tragic the situation is. This is Zimbabwe style stuff going on here.

Brian Cowen needs to make an emergency address on television to spell the situation out in black and white and activate the emergency powers act. This is more fatal to us then WW2, this current situation.

@OP

Dude take a chill pill and re-load.............. do it again and again

Timistry · 13-11-2009 03:06AM

Also if darkman is right then I really hope my uncle lets us farm some of his land for food, it's sitting idle and once we go bankrupt there'll be no more subsidies for that. :pac:

If he is right can i dig a hole in your uncle's farm and through myself into it?

Kitty-kitty · 13-11-2009 03:19AM

amacachi wrote: »

Not all of us youngsters had money thrown at us BTW, I went from 8 til 20 without a new games console, had a computer which was about 9 years old before it was replaces, never left the country til I was well into my teens (even then it was England for a wedding:P).
Luckily I was too young to remember when things were really tough for my parents, but we've never had a huge amount more than what we needed day-to-day. And ya know what? I couldn't care less. A stupid night out here and there isn't a big deal for me and all my clothes added together probably come to around 100 quid. I'm not too worried for the future.

This. Just because there was a lot of wealth going around, that doesn't mean everyone was thriving. I bought my first console at age 16 after scrimping and saving for it (my pocket money was €5, and this was in 2004). This was the same year, co-incidentally, I went on a holiday I was old enough to remember that wasn't to stay with relatives in another corner of Ireland.

I saw a program on RTE a few weeks ago on how to deal with the recession and was mildly disgusted to see blatant COMMON SENSE being fostered to families to whom the thought had never dawned to buy own brands or turn off things when they weren't using them or give their kid a limit on pocket money. The show suggested giving an 8 year old €60 a month to spend and let her budget it herself to teach her a valuable lesson. How much credit, penny sweets and sparkly stationary can a kid go through?

I have an ingrained sense of guilt for buying clothes more expensive than Penney's after a lifetime of charity shop clothes, second hand market things, hand me downs (a special feat being an only child) and store brands. I'm not ashamed of it. I'm glad that I had that kind of upbringing, because I know the value of money and really stop to think before I buy something.

That said, I am coping a lot better than most of the people I know of the same generation. I have one friend who is counting cents from one week to the next to afford her (expensive taste in) food but has a wardrobe of Karen Millen and Jane Norman on the half dole, and another friend who has never set foot in a Lidl, an Aldi or a Heatons and complains that everything is too expensive these days.

Are children of the 90's and early 2000's capable of surviving the recession?

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