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Dutch among lowest cannabis users in Europe-report

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    #32
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Mossy Monk wrote: »
    Any coffee shop I wandered into in Amsterdam always had American, English and Irish people wasted in the corner.
    Coffee shops in Amsterdam are a total rip off, you pay less than 1/2 the price for the same joint in Breda in the South of Holland. :)


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    #33
    Rowley Birkin QC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,308 ✭✭✭Rowley Birkin QC


    caseyann wrote: »

    So am i glad i lived there because with the disgraceful carry on of the women and men over there on a night out,made me cry for good old Irish people.

    What are you on about here?


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    #34
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,507 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    McArmalite wrote: »
    Yeah I lived in Amsterdam a decade or two ago :rolleyes:. Loved it, sometimes sorry I didn't stay there, great country, the Dutch must be the easiest people to get along with. Gorgeous blonde chicks, maybe about 1/3of them blonde. Anyway regarding the drugs, now I've never been into any form of drugs apart from hypocritcally down pints of lager at the weekend, but Dutch people would tell you that the vast majority of addicts in Holland were foreigners who came to Holland for the drugs.

    To be honest I don't think the possible low number of Dutch addicts is a reflection on liberal drug laws, the Dutch for example think it's an extremely moronic thing to be drunk or even slightly drunk. Now if you get a society like Ireland where " getting locked " is regarded as been normal, well liberal drug laws are not going to work here.

    And the drug trade is not just carried out by harmless hippies selling a bit of dope on the side, it's controlled by very serious criminals including Hells Angels motorbike gangs etc

    I would disagree with just about everything in that post, which proves very little except how pointless it is to generalise about people. I mean, have you ever been to Carnaval??


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    #35
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Coffee shops in Amsterdam are a total rip off, you pay less than 1/2 the price for the same joint in Breda in the South of Holland. :)
    Amsterdam is a major European capitol, you'd expect it to be expensive. If you walk for 10 minutes to one of the local coffeeshops outside of the city centre the prices go down considerably and the quality goes way up.


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    #36
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,938 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »
    What are you on about here?

    Drugs and sex capital of world is a good name for it :rolleyes:


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    #37
    Rowley Birkin QC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,308 ✭✭✭Rowley Birkin QC


    caseyann wrote: »
    Drugs and sex capital of world is a good name for it :rolleyes:

    Ah ok, I forgot we don't have any of that back in Ireland. My mistake.


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    #38
    Kradock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 371 ✭✭Kradock


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I don't know how you've jumped to that conclusion it doesn't make any sense when they have cannabis freely available and they have low drug use.

    Its more an observation , though it is freely available , there are a a low number using it according to that report. Maybe it is because they are seeing the effects of its use and thus more of their society are choosing to opt out.


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    #39
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,938 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »
    Ah ok, I forgot we don't have any of that back in Ireland. My mistake.

    Never said it didn't.Nothing like there that's for sure ;)What are you getting all defensive about lmao did i hurt little old Holland :(


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    #40
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    caseyann wrote: »
    Never said it didn't.Nothing like there that's for sure ;)What are you getting all defensive about lmao did i hurt little old Holland :(

    I think you are confusing Holland with Albania.


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    #41
    Rowley Birkin QC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,308 ✭✭✭Rowley Birkin QC


    caseyann wrote: »
    Never said it didn't.Nothing like there that's for sure ;)What are you getting all defensive about lmao did i hurt little old Holland :(

    :D

    No, not at all. It's just a bit laughable that you get worried about the Dutch legalising, well decriminalising, stuff that goes on in every other city in the world.

    The only difference in Amsterdam is that it happens out in the open and those that operate in certain industries in the city can count on the protection of its Police force rather than existing on the fringe where they are extremely vulnerable.


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    #42
    zero19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭zero19


    Ah they do damn fine pancakes though, damn fine!


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    #43
    Podginho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 ✭Podginho


    Not that it ever would happen but if it was made legal in ireland would it be a disaster?


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    #44
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    robby^5 wrote: »
    I dunno if this is what you're getting at, but I dont buy this bs that the Irish somehow have inherently addictive personalities or are more inclined as a people to overuse alchohol or cannabis. It's our societies approach to alchohol/cannabis which is at fault.

    We should be introducing teens to alchohol like they do in mainland Europe. Teens should be introduced to alchohol by their parents in situations which they can be supervised and shown that alchohol can be enjoyed by adults responsibly, glass of wine at dinner or the odd beer at special occassions.

    Instead alchohol is stigmatised and until age 18 teens are left to their own devices and are introduced to alchohol by their peers. Just like when we dont teach kids about they sex, they go off and act rather stupidly.

    So by the time they hit 18 they're absolutely delighted that they can drink out in the open and they completely overdo it and become accustomed to over doing it and hence we have this situation where you have people falling over and puking in the streets.

    This is how I was brought up and will I enjoy a pint, I drink very moderately. As for cannabis, if given a responsible approach to alchohol, an independant responsible approach to cannabis would surely follow. It did for me.

    But yeah I basically think we stigmatise alchohol here so much, kids just cant wait to get ****ed up anyway they can once they're legal.

    none of this stuff is going to happen overnight, that would take generations, in the meantime we are the worlds favourite drunks


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    #45
    Wertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    Podginho wrote: »
    Not that it ever would happen but if it was made legal in ireland would it be a disaster?

    Only for publicans...


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    #46
    inforfun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,860 ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    More often than not when i am in a group of people and tell them i am Dutch i get these remarks about how great it must be to do as many cannabis as i like back home. Everybody assumes were are the biggest users of all of europe, getting ****faced on cannabis whenever we get the chance to.
    Well.... what this report tells is something i actually always thought. The dutch arent the biggest users and comapred to what i have seen around me, very modest users.
    So many times i heared people completely excited on the outlook of spending a weekend in Amsterdam and seeing nothing but a coffeeshop.
    My reaction is just one big "Huh??"

    Somehow i think, just because you can hardly get in trouble in Holland for smoking cannabis, it loses a lot of its attraction, less excitement because you can not be caught.
    The only time i smoked regularly was in school and in the army. Places where i could have been in deep **** if caught.


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    #47
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,938 ✭✭✭caseyann


    TheZohan wrote: »
    I think you are confusing Holland with Albania.

    I think you have a problem with Albania.Try going there before making assumptions :rolleyes:


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    #48
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,938 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »
    :D

    No, not at all. It's just a bit laughable that you get worried about the Dutch legalising, well decriminalising, stuff that goes on in every other city in the world.

    The only difference in Amsterdam is that it happens out in the open and those that operate in certain industries in the city can count on the protection of its Police force rather than existing on the fringe where they are extremely vulnerable.

    I dont care what they do there,I am sick and tired of people talking about our country and saying oh Irish are like this and that.And it works for them and they have less scandal and crime.That is complete rubbish>So therefore i point out there in Holland like all countries morals and drugs and drink and crime is all the same.Just because it made it legal doesnt make it right.
    Legalising cannabis doesn't solve any problems it just controls it for the government and puts more money in their pockets,but the underage will still buy illegal.
    And Irish adults do not smoke cannabis to the extent of what is been portrayed here.


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    #49
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    caseyann wrote: »
    Legalising cannabis doesn't solve any problems it just controls it for the government and puts more money in their pockets,but the underage will still buy illegal.
    I think it would bring about drastic changes. First of all it would be a huge burden off the state, it would be a substantial financial hit against organised crime and taking it's supply out of the hands of criminals would be a step towards keeping it out of the hands of children. It would create 3 different industries overnight, recreational, medical and industrial. If Ireland was one of the only countries to allow full commercial growing of cannabis it would be a guaranteed winner as we'd have no competition. Even if people did stop drinking and started smoking we would at least see an end to alcohol inspired violence.


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    #50
    Rowley Birkin QC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,308 ✭✭✭Rowley Birkin QC


    caseyann wrote: »
    I dont care what they do there,I am sick and tired of people talking about our country and saying oh Irish are like this and that.And it works for them and they have less scandal and crime.That is complete rubbish>So therefore i point out there in Holland like all countries morals and drugs and drink and crime is all the same.Just because it made it legal doesnt make it right.
    Legalising cannabis doesn't solve any problems it just controls it for the government and puts more money in their pockets,but the underage will still buy illegal.
    And Irish adults do not smoke cannabis to the extent of what is been portrayed here.

    I really have no idea what point you are trying to make. I'm guessing logic and hard facts have nothing to do with it though.


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    #51
    enda1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,165 ✭✭✭enda1


    caseyann wrote: »
    I dont care what they do there,I am sick and tired of people talking about our country and saying oh Irish are like this and that.And it works for them and they have less scandal and crime.That is complete rubbish>So therefore i point out there in Holland like all countries morals and drugs and drink and crime is all the same.Just because it made it legal doesnt make it right.
    Legalising cannabis doesn't solve any problems it just controls it for the government and puts more money in their pockets,but the underage will still buy illegal.
    And Irish adults do not smoke cannabis to the extent of what is been portrayed here.

    I don't think it is actually "legal" in The Netherlands, its just a law that's not enforced unless the coffee shop starts getting disorderly or openly flouting stricter laws, then they'll shut it down.


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    #52
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,938 ✭✭✭caseyann


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I think it would bring about drastic changes. First of all it would be a huge burden off the state, it would be a substantial financial hit against organised crime and taking it's supply out of the hands of criminals would be a step towards keeping it out of the hands of children. It would create 3 different industries overnight, recreational, medical and industrial. If Ireland was one of the only countries to allow full commercial growing of cannabis it would be a guaranteed winner as we'd have no competition. Even if people did stop drinking and started smoking we would at least see an end to alcohol inspired violence.

    I get what you wish would happen,But its not logical to allow a drug to be legalised.It causes paranoia and aggression in some people.Others become stupid and useless.It will not take it out of the hands of the children always a market for kids with criminals,then you will have the ones who buy and sell it on to those who cant get it.It is a never ending circle.Drug dealers merely drop the price to the customers likeness.You cant keep stats on who is using and who is not using hash in Holland because of what their stats say on the legalised side.How do they know what amount of hash and drugs people take on a night out.They dont.
    I rather keep it as its against the law to take drugs full stop.


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    #53
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,938 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »
    I really have no idea what point you are trying to make. I'm guessing logic and hard facts have nothing to do with it though.

    Oh please facts mean diddly squat.They aren't facts because they don't know what the intake people have on a nightly basis just because of their stats from coffee shops.What do they do, go and knock on every door and ask?

    I am anti drugs full stop and that wont change.


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    #54
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    caseyann wrote: »
    I get what you wish would happen,But its not logical to allow a drug to be legalised.It causes paranoia and aggression in some people.
    I wouldn't agree with that, I've yet to see weed cause aggression in anybody. I haven't had paranoia for years, it almost solely revolves around getting caught aswell. I would say most people suffer paranoia in their early days of smoking but It's amassing how quickly that paranoia disappears when my plane lands in the Netherlands. I'm not saying this doesn't happen people react to drugs in different ways but it's certainly not the norm and would be quite rare.
    Others become stupid and useless.
    That's your opinion I'd say, most people like cannabis because it makes them more creative, it makes you single-minded as well. You become consumed by what your currently doing and it does mess up your memory but I wouldn't say it makes you stupid just refocuses your attentions.
    It will not take it out of the hands of the children always a market for kids with criminals,then you will have the ones who buy and sell it on to those who cant get it.
    That will happen, of course it will, kids will be kids and will steal their parents stash of drink or weed if it's available, we all did it as kids. If cannabis is a legally sold drug I know that's the way I'd rather purchase it and I'd say that would be true for most smokers. This will mean less money for criminals and less ability for them to supply drugs.
    It is a never ending circle.Drug dealers merely drop the price to the customers likeness.You cant keep stats on who is using and who is not using hash in Holland because of what their stats say on the legalised side.How do they know what amount of hash and drugs people take on a night out.They dont.
    I rather keep it as its against the law to take drugs full stop.
    Your main opposition to drugs seems to be the criminal element. They shouldn't really be considered at all, the drugs dangers should be assessed in their own right and when you do that it makes more sense to control the drug and take that income away from criminals.


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    #55
    Rowley Birkin QC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,308 ✭✭✭Rowley Birkin QC


    caseyann wrote: »
    Oh please facts mean diddly squat.

    On that note it's goodnight from me. Give them enough rope and all that.


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    #56
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,769 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    caseyann wrote: »
    I get what you wish would happen,But its not logical to allow a drug to be legalised.It causes paranoia and aggression in some people.Others become stupid and useless.It will not take it out of the hands of the children always a market for kids with criminals,then you will have the ones who buy and sell it on to those who cant get it.It is a never ending circle.Drug dealers merely drop the price to the customers likeness.You cant keep stats on who is using and who is not using hash in Holland because of what their stats say on the legalised side.How do they know what amount of hash and drugs people take on a night out.They dont.
    I rather keep it as its against the law to take drugs full stop.

    People bother with illegal weed in holland? In amsterdam the dealers offered me coke and ecstasy but never weed.

    Alcohol can be got cheap off criminals but vast vast majority of people buy it in an off licence. Yes the government would have to be careful not to overtax it as that could lead to people buying it off unlicenced dealers (like cigarettes) There's no reason to let that happen and given the nature of cannibis physiology I think it would just lead to people growing their own


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    #57
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,938 ✭✭✭caseyann


    http://www.guide4living.com/drugabuse/cannabis-effects.htm

    What ever you say its a can of worms and needs to remain closed.Garda are doing a great job of drying up the cannabis on the streets of Ireland right now,and does not need to be legalised for yous who smoke it and those who want the drug dealers out of pocket.
    Majority of the ones who say legalise it are because follow the leader or they smoke it.Any Td who wants it legalised is because they want to cash in on it,and don't give a **** about our communities and kids.


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    #58
    wudangclan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭wudangclan


    caseyann wrote: »
    http://www.guide4living.com/drugabuse/cannabis-effects.htm

    What ever you say its a can of worms and needs to remain closed.Garda are doing a great job of drying up the cannabis on the streets of Ireland right now,and does not need to be legalised for yous who smoke it and those who want the drug dealers out of pocket.
    Majority of the ones who say legalise it are because follow the leader or they smoke it.Any Td who wants it legalised is because they want to cash in on it,and don't give a **** about our communities and kids.

    there's little cannabis on the streets of ireland at the moment because of problems with supply in morocco (re: hash) and the netherlands (re: grass),nothing to do with the guards.
    people want it legalised because it's a relatively benign substance and more problems are caused by prohibition than continuing the current policy.


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    #59
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,938 ✭✭✭caseyann


    wudangclan wrote: »
    there's little cannabis on the streets of ireland at the moment because of problems with supply in morocco (re: hash) and the netherlands (re: grass),nothing to do with the guards.
    people want it legalised because it's a relatively benign substance and more problems are caused by prohibition than continuing the current policy.

    Has everything to do with garda,they crack down on it and have hauled massive amounts off the streets and stopped it from going elsewhere.

    Seriously that's like saying legalise heroin and e etc....
    Look at that knew drug that's legal here in the shops whats it called? liquid e .
    That guy in England 18 years old died three times and now mother has to inject him with it.
    Legalise it that makes it so much better.
    Seriously what ever i am out.
    Ireland is going down the preferable **** can.
    People forgot the marches against drugs in this country.And what them people fought to stop and you lot want to legalise it.
    Simple fact it a hallucinogenic and mind altering and causes all them effects.No matter what you say stop following suit to other countries.What may be working for them does not mean will work for us.


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    #60
    wudangclan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭wudangclan


    caseyann wrote: »
    Has everything to do with garda,they crack down on it and have hauled massive amounts off the streets and stopped it from going elsewhere.
    i refer to my previous post.
    Seriously that's like saying legalise heroin and e etc....

    +1. i may not like all these drugs but prohibition causes far more problems for society than the effects of the drugs themselves ,imo.

    Look at that knew drug that's legal here in the shops whats it called? liquid e .
    That guy in England 18 years old died three times and now mother has to inject him with it.

    liquid e (ghb) is'nt legal here.i'm unfamiliar with the case you are highlighting.


    People forgot the marches and against drugs in this country.And what them people fought to stop and you lot want to legalise it.
    those marches were organised by the republican movement in order to capitalise on anti-drug sentiments in working class areas.that has no bearing on the effects of drugs on the individual.
    Simple fact it a hallucinogenic and mind altering and causes all them effects

    that's why i use them.
    No matter what you say stop following suit to other countries.What may be working for them does not mean will work for us.

    the current strategy is a joke and it's only a matter of time before it's reversed ,a la california.


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    #61
    rossie1977
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,542 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    damn it, seems bill o reilly is on boards, either that or one of these attractive ladies with him :p

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTPsFIsxM3w


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