Dutch among lowest cannabis users in Europe-report

roneythetube

Dutch among lowest cannabis users in Europe-report

well that's a surprise!

read all about it here -
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL5730185

evidence that legalisation does NOT lead to increased use...:)

The Dutch effectively decriminalised cannabis over 30 years ago - amidst howls that their society would collapse - do you think that has happened?

Gone Drinking

Yea, thats what we need.. another "LEGALISE IT MAN!!" thread

KungPao

Well obviously, Holland is below sea level.

bluto63

Apparently having to go into the coffee shops filled with American tourists is a big turn off for locals so they don't smoke as much

Saying that, I have never been offered other drugs so many times in one night than the first time I went to Amsterdam

The Dutch also seem to be able to exercise self-restraint

/looks at river of puke on O'Connell street every weekend.

AnonoBoy

Deleted User wrote: »

/looks at river of puke on O'Connell street every weekend.

Excuse me but please refer to that by its proper title - The Liffey.

Kradock

Drugs fcuk you up , cannibis is most people's catalyst. Maybe even the Dutch have figured this out./

Mossy Monk

Any coffee shop I wandered into in Amsterdam always had American, English and Irish people wasted in the corner.

Rowley Birkin QC

Yup it's true, I rarely see Dutch people wasted on any kind of intoxicant. They can quite happily go for a few beers/spliffs and head on home in order to be up for work the next morning. No real need to go on a mission of self destruction every time a drop of alcohol or puff of smoke passes into your system!

I actually met a friend over here that I hadn't seen for 6 years. Last time I saw him he was constantly surrounded by a cloud of smoke and always had red-eyes. He actually gave up weed when he moved to the Netherlands.

Also, you will never find a Dutch person in the same coffee shops as the tourists, they have their own outside the city centre.

ScumLord

Kradock wrote: »

Drugs fcuk you up , cannibis is most people's catalyst. Maybe even the Dutch have figured this out./

I don't know how you've jumped to that conclusion it doesn't make any sense when they have cannabis freely available and they have low drug use.

roneythetube

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Yea, thats what we need.. another "LEGALISE IT MAN!!" thread

well as long as people are being jailed for using this herb well then YES a wider debate in this issue IS required!:)

caseyann

And another thread for the legalising of drugs:rolleyes: If you like it so much move;)

What complete bull surveys say blah blah blah. Surveys said Fianna fail were the most unpopular,and would you look at that they are still there:eek:
Have you ever lived there,then you have no clue.I lived there and went to parties,where local dutch women are ossified and stoned and so are the men.They don't go to the bars and get stoned they go to house parties and they buy illegal because cheaper and not just hash:rolleyes:
You can not do any statistics like they are going to tell the truth half of them

caseyann

Deleted User wrote: »

The Dutch also seem to be able to exercise self-restraint

/looks at river of puke on O'Connell street every weekend.

Self restraint are you serious,that has to be one of the funniest posts i have seen ever :rolleyes:

pickarooney

Kradock wrote: »

Drugs fcuk you up , cannibis is most people's catalyst. Maybe even the Dutch have figured this out./

So they've all moved onto cocaine?

roneythetube

caseyann wrote: »

And another thread for the legalising of drugs:rolleyes: If you like it so much move;)

What complete bull surveys say blah blah blah. Surveys said Fianna fail were the most unpopular,and would you look at that they are still there:eek:
Have you ever lived there,then you have no clue.I lived there and went to parties,where local dutch women are ossified and stoned and so are the men.They don't go to the bars and get stoned they go to house parties and they buy illegal because cheaper and not just hash:rolleyes:
You can not do any statistics like they are going to tell the truth half of them

Well I did live there for 5 years (2000 - 2005) while holding a good job in IT, learnt the language, bought a house and got married!
While I was there I got to see for myself how the decriminalisation of cannabis made it no 'big deal' amongst the Dutch. This was especially evident among young people who for the most part were not interested in cannabis (unlike our hash-hungry youth who love the forbidden fruits - don't we all!:p)

Glad ya lived there for a while and went to parties- did you learn much about the practical workings of decriminalisation of cannabis?

I agree with your view on surveys - they can be twisted to make all kinda of claims. But it IS a well-known fact that Dutch young people mirror the behaviour of their elders and are also among the lowest users of cannabis in the EU.

ScumLord

I love the Netherlands, their cities work perfectly when compared to anything in Ireland or even the UK, their laws are fair and make sense and overall their just really sound people. If I could live anywhere else in the world I think it would be there.

BraziliaNZ

Irish people like to get f*cked up so if it was legal in Ireland there'd be a lot more people getting wasted all the time. In saying that the Dutch people I know get as f*cked up as I do regularly.

roneythetube

ScumLord wrote: »

I love the Netherlands, their cities work perfectly when compared to anything in Ireland or even the UK, their laws are fair and make sense and overall their just really sound people. If I could live anywhere else in the world I think it would be there.

I agree - its a well run, efficient green and clean society.
And the Dutch do not waste millions of euro every year trying to convict people for using a plant for their own private use! Unlike our poor oul Gardai having to waste their time and taxpayers money chasing adults who choose to use this plant for their own use!

roneythetube

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

so if it was legal in Ireland there'd be a lot more people getting wasted all the time. .

But its just that kinda view that this study scientifically refutes!
Legalisation does NOT lead to increased use. That's exactly what this study shows - did you read the link? If you missed it, you can read it in the first post or else just click here..http://www.reuters.com/article/lates...s/idUSL5730185
thanks

Rowley Birkin QC

ScumLord wrote: »

I love the Netherlands, their cities work perfectly when compared to anything in Ireland or even the UK, their laws are fair and make sense and overall their just really sound people. If I could live anywhere else in the world I think it would be there.

Have to agree, everything here just works as it should. If something doesn't make sense or if it's outdated they change it. I was trying to explain to a Dutch person about some of the nonsense, lack of integrated public transport ticketing for example, that goes on in Ireland and they were in disbelief.

Been living here for about two months now, coming home to do a Masters in February but the thought has crossed my mind so many times to just say "fcuk it" and stay here.

McArmalite

ScumLord wrote: »

I love the Netherlands, their cities work perfectly when compared to anything in Ireland or even the UK, their laws are fair and make sense and overall their just really sound people. If I could live anywhere else in the world I think it would be there.

Yeah I lived in Amsterdam a decade or two ago :rolleyes:. Loved it, sometimes sorry I didn't stay there, great country, the Dutch must be the easiest people to get along with. Gorgeous blonde chicks, maybe about 1/3of them blonde. Anyway regarding the drugs, now I've never been into any form of drugs apart from hypocritcally down pints of lager at the weekend, but Dutch people would tell you that the vast majority of addicts in Holland were foreigners who came to Holland for the drugs.

To be honest I don't think the possible low number of Dutch addicts is a reflection on liberal drug laws, the Dutch for example think it's an extremely moronic thing to be drunk or even slightly drunk. Now if you get a society like Ireland where " getting locked " is regarded as been normal, well liberal drug laws are not going to work here.

And the drug trade is not just carried out by harmless hippies selling a bit of dope on the side, it's controlled by very serious criminals including Hells Angels motorbike gangs etc

I_am_Jebus

they're all too busy with the brazzers to worry about smoking the weed mon.

BraziliaNZ

roneythetube wrote: »

But its just that kinda view that this study scientifically refutes!
Legalisation does NOT lead to increased use. That's exactly what this study shows - did you read the link? If you missed it, you can read it in the first post or else just click here..http://www.reuters.com/article/lates...s/idUSL5730185
thanks

this is ireland, we are not the stern hard working protestant ethic Dutch, people would be getting stoned all the time, a lot more than if it's illegal. It's difficult to get "herbal cannabis" in this country and always has been, if you could walk into a shop and buy skunk the usage would go through the roof.

roneythetube

McArmalite wrote: »

And the drug trade is not just carried out by harmless hippies selling a bit of dope on the side, it's controlled by very serious criminals including Hells Angels motorbike gangs etc

ANother reason why the Irish Government should MAKE money from cannabis (that thousands of Irish people use daily regardless of its legal status).
Instead the Government are wasting taxpayers money chasing adults who choose to use it.
Illegality of cannabis does lead to crime, gangsters etc. - Al Capone built his crime empire on alcohol prohibition. IN the same way Irish gangsters (insert your favourite..) make money from prohibition. While the Irish Government continue to loose money by enforcing an unworkable system of prohibition.

roneythetube

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

this is ireland, we are not the stern hard working protestant ethic Dutch, people would be getting stoned all the time, a lot more than if it's illegal. It's difficult to get "herbal cannabis" in this country and always has been, if you could walk into a shop and buy skunk the usage would go through the roof.

C'mon man (or woman) do you really believe the 'stern, hard-working Protestant work ethic' truly exists in Dutch society. The churches are like churches everywhere else - empty. The Dutch are like all other people - in both their work and play habits!

And if you really think its hard to get 'herbal cannabis' in this country....well then...i'm not sure what to say:) Can I assure you that its not at all hard if you know where to look! Homegrowers are appearing everywhere. and i mean everywhere!!

BraziliaNZ

roneythetube wrote: »

C'mon man (or woman) do you really believe the 'stern, hard-working Protestant work ethic' truly exists in Dutch society. The churches are like churches everywhere else - empty. The Dutch are like all other people - in both their work and play habits!

And if you really think its hard to get 'herbal cannabis' in this country....well then...i'm not sure what to say:) Can I assure you that its not at all hard if you know where to look! Homegrowers are appearing everywhere. and i mean everywhere!!

the place is actually really boring outside of A'dam really. My friend is from Alkmaar and it's like a ghost town at night. No one likes to get f*cked up as much as the Irish, we would definitely smoke more of it.

ScumLord

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

this is ireland, we are not the stern hard working protestant ethic Dutch, people would be getting stoned all the time, a lot more than if it's illegal. It's difficult to get "herbal cannabis" in this country and always has been, if you could walk into a shop and buy skunk the usage would go through the roof.

Weed is definitely on the rise, I've noticed more and more homegrown these days. Not always the best quality but it's improving. This is great really, it's good quality and the people growing it are enthusiast that want to avoid the criminal scene.

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

No one likes to get f*cked up as much as the Irish, we would definitely smoke more of it.

Would we smoke more, or the same amount as we do now? The effects of weed can't be compared to the chaos that alcohol causes on our streets. To assume cannabis would only make the problem worse is just wrong, your comparing chalk and cheese.

BraziliaNZ

ScumLord wrote: »

Would we smoke more, or the same amount as we do now? The effects of weed can't be compared to the chaos that alcohol causes on our streets. To assume cannabis would only make the problem worse is just wrong, your comparing chalk and cheese.

i think we'd smoke more for sure. I'm not saying that's a bad thing though, personal choice etc, i enjoy a joint sometimes

the_syco

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Any coffee shop I wandered into in Amsterdam always had American, English and Irish people wasted in the corner.

And for most of them, it's probably the first time they smoked so much of it. How many 18 year olds had a simlair experience with alcohol?

caseyann

roneythetube wrote: »

Well I did live there for 5 years (2000 - 2005) while holding a good job in IT, learnt the language, bought a house and got married!
While I was there I got to see for myself how the decriminalisation of cannabis made it no 'big deal' amongst the Dutch. This was especially evident among young people who for the most part were not interested in cannabis (unlike our hash-hungry youth who love the forbidden fruits - don't we all!:p)

Glad ya lived there for a while and went to parties- did you learn much about the practical workings of decriminalisation of cannabis?

I agree with your view on surveys - they can be twisted to make all kinda of claims. But it IS a well-known fact that Dutch young people mirror the behaviour of their elders and are also among the lowest users of cannabis in the EU.

No they are more interested in recreational drugs and cocaine and crack.
And you frequented amongst the younger generation much?
Its absolutely ludicrous for a report to made and claim such things.Dutch young people are just as much into drink and drugs as Irish and other nationalities.Maybe they aren't into the hash as much because they prefer their other drugs;)

Legalising one drug does not solve a problem,just is giving more tax to the government here and people will move onto something else cheap.Come on cause lets face it if Ireland was to legalise it they would penalise you for smoking it And where exactly are you going to smoke it?

So am i glad i lived there because with the disgraceful carry on of the women and men over there on a night out,made me cry for good old Irish people.Although some slutty here and loud mouthed nothing like i saw over there.
Luckily i managed to meet a small handful of people who kept my brain sane:)

Not mention bringing up a load of kids who have no other recreational facilities to go to,and out of pure boredom will buy and smoke it.On top of that an age limit put on that to,so still going to buy it illegally.
No win this is epic fail

robby^5

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

the place is actually really boring outside of A'dam really. My friend is from Alkmaar and it's like a ghost town at night. No one likes to get f*cked up as much as the Irish, we would definitely smoke more of it.

I dunno if this is what you're getting at, but I dont buy this bs that the Irish somehow have inherently addictive personalities or are more inclined as a people to overuse alchohol or cannabis. It's our societies approach to alchohol/cannabis which is at fault.

We should be introducing teens to alchohol like they do in mainland Europe. Teens should be introduced to alchohol by their parents in situations which they can be supervised and shown that alchohol can be enjoyed by adults responsibly, glass of wine at dinner or the odd beer at special occassions.

Instead alchohol is stigmatised and until age 18 teens are left to their own devices and are introduced to alchohol by their peers. Just like when we dont teach kids about they sex, they go off and act rather stupidly.

So by the time they hit 18 they're absolutely delighted that they can drink out in the open and they completely overdo it and become accustomed to over doing it and hence we have this situation where you have people falling over and puking in the streets.

This is how I was brought up and will I enjoy a pint, I drink very moderately. As for cannabis, if given a responsible approach to alchohol, an independant responsible approach to cannabis would surely follow. It did for me.

But yeah I basically think we stigmatise alchohol here so much, kids just cant wait to get ****ed up anyway they can once they're legal.

Run_to_da_hills

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Any coffee shop I wandered into in Amsterdam always had American, English and Irish people wasted in the corner.

Coffee shops in Amsterdam are a total rip off, you pay less than 1/2 the price for the same joint in Breda in the South of Holland.

Rowley Birkin QC

caseyann wrote: »

So am i glad i lived there because with the disgraceful carry on of the women and men over there on a night out,made me cry for good old Irish people.

What are you on about here?

pickarooney

McArmalite wrote: »

Yeah I lived in Amsterdam a decade or two ago :rolleyes:. Loved it, sometimes sorry I didn't stay there, great country, the Dutch must be the easiest people to get along with. Gorgeous blonde chicks, maybe about 1/3of them blonde. Anyway regarding the drugs, now I've never been into any form of drugs apart from hypocritcally down pints of lager at the weekend, but Dutch people would tell you that the vast majority of addicts in Holland were foreigners who came to Holland for the drugs.

To be honest I don't think the possible low number of Dutch addicts is a reflection on liberal drug laws, the Dutch for example think it's an extremely moronic thing to be drunk or even slightly drunk. Now if you get a society like Ireland where " getting locked " is regarded as been normal, well liberal drug laws are not going to work here.

And the drug trade is not just carried out by harmless hippies selling a bit of dope on the side, it's controlled by very serious criminals including Hells Angels motorbike gangs etc

I would disagree with just about everything in that post, which proves very little except how pointless it is to generalise about people. I mean, have you ever been to Carnaval??

ScumLord

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Coffee shops in Amsterdam are a total rip off, you pay less than 1/2 the price for the same joint in Breda in the South of Holland.

Amsterdam is a major European capitol, you'd expect it to be expensive. If you walk for 10 minutes to one of the local coffeeshops outside of the city centre the prices go down considerably and the quality goes way up.

caseyann

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

What are you on about here?

Drugs and sex capital of world is a good name for it :rolleyes:

Rowley Birkin QC

caseyann wrote: »

Drugs and sex capital of world is a good name for it :rolleyes:

Ah ok, I forgot we don't have any of that back in Ireland. My mistake.

Kradock

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't know how you've jumped to that conclusion it doesn't make any sense when they have cannabis freely available and they have low drug use.

Its more an observation , though it is freely available , there are a a low number using it according to that report. Maybe it is because they are seeing the effects of its use and thus more of their society are choosing to opt out.

caseyann

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Ah ok, I forgot we don't have any of that back in Ireland. My mistake.

Never said it didn't.Nothing like there that's for sure ;)What are you getting all defensive about lmao did i hurt little old Holland

TheZohanS

caseyann wrote: »

Never said it didn't.Nothing like there that's for sure ;)What are you getting all defensive about lmao did i hurt little old Holland

I think you are confusing Holland with Albania.

Rowley Birkin QC

caseyann wrote: »

Never said it didn't.Nothing like there that's for sure ;)What are you getting all defensive about lmao did i hurt little old Holland

No, not at all. It's just a bit laughable that you get worried about the Dutch legalising, well decriminalising, stuff that goes on in every other city in the world.

The only difference in Amsterdam is that it happens out in the open and those that operate in certain industries in the city can count on the protection of its Police force rather than existing on the fringe where they are extremely vulnerable.

zero19

Ah they do damn fine pancakes though, damn fine!

Podginho

Not that it ever would happen but if it was made legal in ireland would it be a disaster?

BraziliaNZ

robby^5 wrote: »

I dunno if this is what you're getting at, but I dont buy this bs that the Irish somehow have inherently addictive personalities or are more inclined as a people to overuse alchohol or cannabis. It's our societies approach to alchohol/cannabis which is at fault.

We should be introducing teens to alchohol like they do in mainland Europe. Teens should be introduced to alchohol by their parents in situations which they can be supervised and shown that alchohol can be enjoyed by adults responsibly, glass of wine at dinner or the odd beer at special occassions.

Instead alchohol is stigmatised and until age 18 teens are left to their own devices and are introduced to alchohol by their peers. Just like when we dont teach kids about they sex, they go off and act rather stupidly.

So by the time they hit 18 they're absolutely delighted that they can drink out in the open and they completely overdo it and become accustomed to over doing it and hence we have this situation where you have people falling over and puking in the streets.

This is how I was brought up and will I enjoy a pint, I drink very moderately. As for cannabis, if given a responsible approach to alchohol, an independant responsible approach to cannabis would surely follow. It did for me.

But yeah I basically think we stigmatise alchohol here so much, kids just cant wait to get ****ed up anyway they can once they're legal.

none of this stuff is going to happen overnight, that would take generations, in the meantime we are the worlds favourite drunks

Wertz

Podginho wrote: »

Not that it ever would happen but if it was made legal in ireland would it be a disaster?

Only for publicans...

inforfun

More often than not when i am in a group of people and tell them i am Dutch i get these remarks about how great it must be to do as many cannabis as i like back home. Everybody assumes were are the biggest users of all of europe, getting ****faced on cannabis whenever we get the chance to.
Well.... what this report tells is something i actually always thought. The dutch arent the biggest users and comapred to what i have seen around me, very modest users.
So many times i heared people completely excited on the outlook of spending a weekend in Amsterdam and seeing nothing but a coffeeshop.
My reaction is just one big "Huh??"

Somehow i think, just because you can hardly get in trouble in Holland for smoking cannabis, it loses a lot of its attraction, less excitement because you can not be caught.
The only time i smoked regularly was in school and in the army. Places where i could have been in deep **** if caught.

caseyann

TheZohan wrote: »

I think you are confusing Holland with Albania.

I think you have a problem with Albania.Try going there before making assumptions :rolleyes:

caseyann

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

No, not at all. It's just a bit laughable that you get worried about the Dutch legalising, well decriminalising, stuff that goes on in every other city in the world.

The only difference in Amsterdam is that it happens out in the open and those that operate in certain industries in the city can count on the protection of its Police force rather than existing on the fringe where they are extremely vulnerable.

I dont care what they do there,I am sick and tired of people talking about our country and saying oh Irish are like this and that.And it works for them and they have less scandal and crime.That is complete rubbish>So therefore i point out there in Holland like all countries morals and drugs and drink and crime is all the same.Just because it made it legal doesnt make it right.
Legalising cannabis doesn't solve any problems it just controls it for the government and puts more money in their pockets,but the underage will still buy illegal.
And Irish adults do not smoke cannabis to the extent of what is been portrayed here.

ScumLord

caseyann wrote: »

Legalising cannabis doesn't solve any problems it just controls it for the government and puts more money in their pockets,but the underage will still buy illegal.

I think it would bring about drastic changes. First of all it would be a huge burden off the state, it would be a substantial financial hit against organised crime and taking it's supply out of the hands of criminals would be a step towards keeping it out of the hands of children. It would create 3 different industries overnight, recreational, medical and industrial. If Ireland was one of the only countries to allow full commercial growing of cannabis it would be a guaranteed winner as we'd have no competition. Even if people did stop drinking and started smoking we would at least see an end to alcohol inspired violence.

Rowley Birkin QC

caseyann wrote: »

I dont care what they do there,I am sick and tired of people talking about our country and saying oh Irish are like this and that.And it works for them and they have less scandal and crime.That is complete rubbish>So therefore i point out there in Holland like all countries morals and drugs and drink and crime is all the same.Just because it made it legal doesnt make it right.
Legalising cannabis doesn't solve any problems it just controls it for the government and puts more money in their pockets,but the underage will still buy illegal.
And Irish adults do not smoke cannabis to the extent of what is been portrayed here.

I really have no idea what point you are trying to make. I'm guessing logic and hard facts have nothing to do with it though.

enda1

caseyann wrote: »

I dont care what they do there,I am sick and tired of people talking about our country and saying oh Irish are like this and that.And it works for them and they have less scandal and crime.That is complete rubbish>So therefore i point out there in Holland like all countries morals and drugs and drink and crime is all the same.Just because it made it legal doesnt make it right.
Legalising cannabis doesn't solve any problems it just controls it for the government and puts more money in their pockets,but the underage will still buy illegal.
And Irish adults do not smoke cannabis to the extent of what is been portrayed here.

I don't think it is actually "legal" in The Netherlands, its just a law that's not enforced unless the coffee shop starts getting disorderly or openly flouting stricter laws, then they'll shut it down.