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Failing to see how ridiculous religion is until you escape it
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I'm not quoting it as fact, rather I'm answering the question, why do believers hang on, what drives us. The answer is the hope that we have received through the Gospel, whether or not it is objectively true.
I want to live a full life, because I believe that Jesus Christ has the power to transform lives.
I recognized my error and removed my post, looks like you were too quick for me
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Do I understand you correctly that you think it's irrelevant if something is true or false as long as it provides "hope"?
Isn't that the kind of "relativism" that religious people tend to avoid?
You've got me all wrong robindch
The question was posed, why do believers want to live as long as they can, and why wouldn't they want to die very early so as to go to heaven. I answered this from a Christian POV.
liamw tells me to stop quoting the Bible as fact (post now removed).
I pointed out my intention was to explain how a believer would justify it irrespective of whether it is objectively true.
However, of course I do believe that this is objectively true. All clear now?0 -
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I know this is old, but I couldn't let it pass.
How do you know this? I mean, I'm sure this is true for some people (how else did religion come to exist anyway!), but how do you know that it's always like that? It isn't. That's one thing I know.
I know a lot of people who grew up atheist, not because their parents said to them 'God doesn't exist, the Church is wrong' etc. etc., but because religion played no real part in their or their parents' lives. I'm one of those people, too. When I was about 12 and supposed to start thinking about confirmation, I wanted to tell my mum that I didn't want to go through with it, and I remember thinking that she might object, because I thought she might be religious. I didn't have a clue that she's actually an atheist and somewhat fed up with the Church since she's had to endure the whole old fashioned Church experience as a child in the 50s herself. Let me repeat that: I did not have a clue! That means she never mentioned anything about atheism to me. I didn't grow up being told that religion is stupid, I just grew up without religion. It's entirely possible.
I believed in the baby Jesus bringing presents at Christmas and in the Easter bunny when I was about 4, then until I was about 5 I think I believed in St. Nick ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas ) and that's about it. Never believed in fairies or anything. When I was about 7, I had a 'nearly religious' experience, where I thought, 'Hey, in films, they sometimes pray for stuff. Let's see whether that works.' So I started praying, and I just thought it was so ridiculous I didn't even finish the prayer (not like anyone was listening to me anyway, so I figured it was just like I was talking to myself, only that it was like crazy people do, when they believe that someone's actually there listening). That was probably the most religious moment of my life! *sniff*
It wasn't until about two years ago perhaps that I started having an active interest in atheism, i.e. that I started reading into it, but I was never, ever religious in any way. I don't think I have many friends who've ever been believers of any kind either. It's just not an issue.
This, a thousand times this.
I grew up in one of the most religious environments possible. An extremely strict sect of evangelical christianity. And by strict I mean that rules such as I wasn't allowed within six inches of the opposite sex (literally six inches, this is not an expression), had to wear certain clothes, had to go to hour long prayer meetings at 6:30 in morning and 6:30 in evening. Could go on but you get the picture.
I was massively peer pressured to pray every meeting, to speak in tongues, to prophecy and to "share" etc. Everyone was expected to do this, and when it came around to be my turn the whole room would be silent until I prayed or prophesied something. Sometimes the silences would last 15 minutes until I cracked. Anyway, I became very adept at being quite convincing. Praying was easy, but fake prophesying and fake praying in tongues takes more skill.
I developed the fake praying in tongues whist a whole congregation was focusing on me and laying hands on me for me to be "filled with the spirit". Talk about peer pressure! I even got to the stage where I was preaching on Sundays (there was youth meetings where all were required to participate).
Anyhoo...sorry to bore all the people who just read that, but my point is that even though I cannot imagine a more religious upbringing, I never truly believed in God. I never even knew the word "atheist" existed until 6-7 years ago, when I came across some videos on youtube on atheism I immediately knew I was one. Religious stuff has always seemed ridiculous to me, the only reason I was involved was because of the my upbringing. I'm one of those people who as Pascal I think said: "are made so that they cannot believe".
Even with the truly outstanding amount of brainwashing I received (seriously you wouldn't believe the half of it) I still came out the other side as an atheist. I knew I was faking it, therefore I know others are faking it.
/rant
EDIT: just in case theres any board stalkers online who recognise that evangelical cult, it is possible to break free from it eventually 0 -
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I at least partially agree with this. Everyone thinks everyone else is brainwashing their children (in religious matters).
There is really a key difference though. Many people both religious and atheist alike (though obviously less common in atheists) try to force their own values on their children. However, some of use, try to let children choose freely from themselves. Yes subconsciously we'll always want them to believe in what we believe but it's the effort in trying that separates us from those who indoctrinate and it does make a difference. 0 -
There is really a key difference though. Many people both religious and atheist alike (though obviously less common in atheists) try to force their own values on their children. However, some of use, try to let children choose freely from themselves. Yes subconsciously we'll always want them to believe in what we believe but it's the effort in trying that separates us from those who indoctrinate and it does make a difference.
I agree with you, but just to play devil's advocate....
Christians would say that letting their child choose is a form of indoctrination, in that it gives the child the "wrong" idea that all options are equally valid. The Christian viewpoint must be enforced so that the child will go to heaven and not to hell.0 -
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