Top 5 Dead or Alive?

floggg · 09-10-2009 02:50PM #1

Ok, taking the idea from allhiphop.com but thought it might be cool to start a 'Top 5 Dead or Alive' thread and hopefully we might get some interesting choices up here. Idea is pretty basic, list who you think is the top 5, dead or alive all time greats, either as rappers or producers. Whether you think that is Rakim, Jay-z or Soulja Boy, or you decide to choose based on mic skills or consistency, thats your call. Just please give a little explanation for your choices to back it up a little.

floggg · 11-10-2009 03:45PM

I'm a new school cat, so wasn't around for the hey day of KRS, Rakim etc, and none of those make my list. While i appreciate the impact they made on the game, i don't necessarily thinkthat is enough to guarantee anybody an automatic top 5 slot.

I'm not (necessarily) going off skills alone on this, its as much about character as ability, but don't think for a minute that anybody on my list can't spit. A couple of noticeable mentions who didn't make it were nas, ice cube and kweli, but for reasons of consistency the didn't make the final cut.

5. Royce da 5'9"

What I love most about Royce, is how he always goes in so hard on every track, and always seems like he still has something to prove. I love the passion, the cockiness, the effortless flow and the punchlines. And when he isn't spazzing out an a track, he is creative enough to do concept tracks like "Part of Me". Ok, there may be better all round emcees out there, but i think his passion and consistency derserve a spot.

4. Ras Kass

Ras is worthy of a mention on the list just for interview with a vampire and nature of the threat alone. IMO, Ras is the greatest lyricist in the game when he is on point. whether he is dealing with weighty concepts like religion/good and evil (interview with a vampire, on earth as it is...) or political tracks (nature of the threat) or just spitting for the sake of it (write where i left off) he always tries to bring something creative to the table. and on the more serious topics, you cannot help but admire the depth of knowledge and research he must put into each track. if he had just gotten to release a few more albums, he could well be number one.

3. Jay-Z

Hate him or love him, you gotta give him his props. He has been the most consistent performer at the top of the hip-hop game for over 10 years now. His ear for beats is unmatched, his story telling game, his lyricism, his insight and his flow are all top notch. again, there may be better lyricists, but none can do it as consistently as Jay, and nobody can touch him in terms of hit records. losing his edge a bit these days it seems, he is still the head and shoulders above most of the other commercially successful artists on radio these days.

2. Pharaoh Monch

Tough call between my one and two. I really love pharaoh as a rapper - his lyrically ability, complicated multi-syllabic rhyme schemes, effortless flow, his singing ability, production skills and overall creativity. only pharaoh could have flipped the whole "I Used to Love H.E.R." personification thing and make it into "Rape," and have the integrity to put it out there. i loved everything about desire, how he could stray across so many genres and sounds, and yet still make it cohesive and consistent. i love how his multi-faceted character comes through in all his songs. i love how he can come to dublin and flip sunday bloody sunday the way he did in tripod a few years back.

1. Phonte

In the end, i had to give it to 'Te. He's a ridiculously talented emcee and singer, with an incredible chip on his shoulder (but in a good way). I love his playful cockiness, i'm better than you and we all know it attitude ("I Ain't Worried About People Biting "minstrel Show"/they Still Teething On "the Listening"), yet he at the same time, he lets the listening in on his emotional vunerability like no other. he is raps about the ordinary and mundane, but his insight and honest makes it interesting and meaningful, and we can relate to it like no other artists, whether its about working 9 to 5 (speed) or falling in love (yellow lines).

horsebox09 · 11-10-2009 07:06PM

Good thread and good choices, heres mine

5. Eminem. I know he's put out some sh!te, i know he's fell off over the years but at his best not many can touch him. His rhyme schemes and word play are up their with the best ive ever heard. Very versitile emcee aswell, can go from ripping up a track to making a number 1 radio hit. He pushed the limits of mainstream music on the marshall mathers lp. 3 of his first 4 albums are in the rolling stones top 500 albums of all time which shows that he appeals to people outside of the hip op community. The 2 best verse on jay z's blueprint album where his 2.
In terms of pure ability, i cant think of anyone better.
''f**k a chorus, my metaphores are so complicated it takes 6 minute to get applause, by the time you all catch on, im gonna end your career and walk away with the whole floor so you have nothing to fall back on''.

Recommended albums; infinite, slim shady ep, slim shady lp, marshall mathers lp, eminem show and (parts of) relapse.

4. Pharoahe Monch. Ridiculously creative, the words i can use to describe him. Nas put himself in the position of a gun on i gave you power, pharoahe did it 2 years earlier on stray bullet, Nas talked about being in his mothers whom on fetus, pharoahe already did that in inverto. Insane lyriclly, he has dropped some of the best verses you'll ever hear (prisoners of war, releasing hypnotical gases, etc). Listen to his flow on ''bring it on'' i mean NOBODY can spit like that!
He was at his peak with organized kofusion but showed that he could hold down an album on his own o his debut internal affairs.
His chess metaphore on ''the extinction agenda'' is unbelievable.

Recommended albums; with organized konfusion, organized konfusion, stress;the extiction agenda, and the equinox,as a solo artist, internal affairs and desire.

3. Rakim. The god emcee, says it all really. The most influential figure in hip hop deserves a spot on here for that reason alone. Introduced flow and rhyme schemes, his lyrics for their time are great.
Theirs not really much i can say about rakim to be honest, everything has already been said before.

Recommended albums; paid in full, let the rhythm hit em, dont sweat the technique, 18th letter.

2. Kool G Rap. Your favorite rappers favorite rapper. Like Rakim, G Rap is also a pioneer for hip hop music. is 3 albums with DJ Polo are all classics. Introduced multi rhyming, and does it better than anyone. Lyrics, flow, storytelling, he has it all. Chino XL (probably the most egotistical mc ever) says he is the greatest ever, after kool g rap.
He's fathered so many rappers styles. Live and let die, his last album with dj polo, is basically the reason why mafioso rap exists.
His stuff that he done without dj polo is also worth checking out, especially 4,5,6.
My personal favorite emcee ever.

Recommended album; Road to riches, wanted dead or alive, live and let die, 4,5,6 and roots of evil.

1. Wu Tag Clan. I know their a group but im basically counting everything they've done, solo and as a group.
Apart from releasing one of the greatest album ever of any genre in 1993 with 36 chambers, wu tag clan absolutely dominated the hip hop scene from 1993 - 1997.
9 emcees who could all spit, and the best hip hop producer ever make up the bigget force rap music will ever see.
GZA,Ghostface,Raekwon,Method man, and inspectah deck at their best are 5 of best emcees to grace the mic.
RZA's production from 1993 - 1997 will never be matched again, brought a whole new sound with each album he produced. The kung fu sampling was so origional.
And i cant forget Ol' Dirty(r.i.p),craziest rapper ever!
I cant say enough about these guys, they are a cult, a religion to some, hell their are people with the wu logo tatooed on their face!
Took me awile to get into them, but now im a huge fan.
''How can hip hop be dead when wu tang is forever'' - RZA

Recommend albums; ill be hear all night naming them all so start off with 36 chambers,liquid swords,only built 4 cuba linx and ironman and work your way from their!

floggg · 11-10-2009 07:26PM

Good choice as well.

On Eminem, he certainly had the potential to be top 5 dead or alive. 'Til I Collapse is one of my favourite songs ever, i love his verses, the passion, the lyrics, everything. Other songs like renegade, the way i am, lose yourself, rabbit run etc are sheer brilliant.

But i cannot stomach the likes of lose it or puke, or all that BS. I was so excited about encore before it came out, but was horrified but what i heard on most of the songs. I actually haven't even bothered listening to relapse yet, 'from what i have heard its half and half between great rhyming and juvenile BS, so i can't put myself through more of that. i'd prefer to remember him the way he was. I think marshall mathers/8 mile was his high point, and its downhill since.

powerzjim · 13-10-2009 01:45AM

for me its

1. Nas
2. Tupac
3. Common
4. Andre 3000
5. Lupe Fiasco

^there the ones i personally listen to the most

Boom_Bap · 13-10-2009 03:47PM

a few good choices so far and a few interesting ones.

I personally wouldn't have Phonte in my top 5 but I can see where you are coming from. He is dope alright, but i just havnt really thought that he was exceptional.

I'll also probably get a hard time for this, and not trying to offend anyone, but Tupac? Dont get me wrong, i love some of his albums but I dont think that he is the super mc that people claim that he his. He has the same delivery in almost every song which annoys me the most, i guess he was just not versatile enough in his delivery for me to call him a great mc. He had great lyrics, good subject matter and a great voice.
But compared to Eminiem (potentially on my Top 5

), Em can change his delivery on every song and doenst have a formula for his rhyme pattern. Lately he has fallen into a routine of sticking with one delivery but he can still change it up on a song andd suprise you.

As for my top 5, i really dont know.

....i'm glad to see Phaoroh Monch mentioned a couple of times.

horsebox09 · 13-10-2009 05:58PM

floggg wrote: »

Good choice as well.

On Eminem, he certainly had the potential to be top 5 dead or alive. 'Til I Collapse is one of my favourite songs ever, i love his verses, the passion, the lyrics, everything. Other songs like renegade, the way i am, lose yourself, rabbit run etc are sheer brilliant.

But i cannot stomach the likes of lose it or puke, or all that BS. I was so excited about encore before it came out, but was horrified but what i heard on most of the songs. I actually haven't even bothered listening to relapse yet, 'from what i have heard its half and half between great rhyming and juvenile BS, so i can't put myself through more of that. i'd prefer to remember him the way he was. I think marshall mathers/8 mile was his high point, and its downhill since.

Yeah i can definitely see where your coming from,i can totally see why people hate him,i did for a few years myself, songs like puke are best descirbed by their name, but for every song like that he has someting incredible. I actually stopped listening to him for 2/3 years after enore came out, but i like most of the stuff he done before that, especially his first 3 albums. He has gone down hill, but if parts of relapse and some other stuff are anything to go by, he still has a good-great album in him.
He needs to cut down on the Dre prodution, but apparently his new album has 2 mr porter beats, 4 just blaze beats, and one alchemist beat so we'll see how it pans out.

horsebox09 · 13-10-2009 06:01PM

powerzjim wrote: »

for me its

1. Nas
2. Tupac
3. Common
4. Andre 3000
5. Lupe Fiasco

^there the ones i personally listen to the most

good list, ive been listening to common alot lately, and i was going to add nas on mine aswell. haven't really listened to lupe much, but ive good things about him so i might check out some of his stuff

floggg · 13-10-2009 07:03PM

I guess a lot of my choices are as much based on personality as skills. Hence 'Te, not only is he a dope rhymer, also seems like one of the "realest" people in hip-hop, if you can pardon the use of the term.

Lines like "I scoop you up in my porsche, psych you know i got a nissan on, that i'm still paying for, still got a lease on" sum him up perfectly for me, nice rhyme, funny, witty, and also completely down to earth and something we can all relate to.

I would tend to agree with the comments on tupac - from a technical point of view, he ain't really up there in my book. again though, i guess the draw with 'pac is his personality - the inner struggle within himself between good and evil.

As for eminem, its not that i hate/dislike him, its that i feel he is such a waist of talent and potential. i thought when he came back, it was for the love of the music, rather than just dropping more bull**** to pander to adolescents!

BayCity · 13-10-2009 07:39PM

1. Big L

2. Biggie

3. GZA

4. Talib Kweli

5. Canibus

evil_seed · 14-10-2009 09:56AM

1. Jay-Z
2. Andre 3000
3. Chuck D
4. Redman
5. Ludacris

MrKingsley · 14-10-2009 02:18PM

Not necessarily based on talent on the mic but my favorite 5 to listen to would be

1. Biggie
2. Guru
3. Tupac
4. Khali 2na
5. Nas

evil_seed · 15-10-2009 10:14AM

MrKingsley wrote: »

4. Khali 2na

Chali 2na is savage. Not a top 5 or top 10 but is awesome all the same. he's really unique. note to self... must get fish outta water

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neouh3r3Cio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=319MnwStI08

MrKingsley · 15-10-2009 10:24AM

"Chali 2na is savage. Not a top 5 or top 10 but is awesome all the same."

Yeah thats what i meant about them being my favs to listen to. Thats just based on my personal view of his character and style really. I agree he wouldnt be in a top 10

floggg · 15-10-2009 10:40AM

MrKingsley wrote: »

Not necessarily based on talent on the mic but my favorite 5 to listen to would be

1. Biggie
2. Guru
3. Tupac
4. Khali 2na
5. Nas

guru? I understand that you are going with your favourites rather than the best emcees but still wouldn't have him near my top 20, never mind top 5. Don't get me wrong, i love gangstarr, but i always thought the only thing ever holding them back was guru! His monotone flow and delivery grates a bit, and he almost always to be outshone by their guests. Plus, have read a few interviews with him post primo, and he seems like an ass. He's completely dismissive of primo's contribution to his career, as the legacy they created. Considering the incredibles love they are shown, he also seems to almost resent his fans appreciation of gangstarr over whatever new stuff he puts out

MrKingsley · 15-10-2009 10:51AM

I didnt realise i was opening a cans of worms with that list.

I should have said really that they were just personal choices. I would say that in 2 months 3 of those 5 will have changed. I dip in and out of a lot of music. Just at the minute thats what Im in to.

Ill put a bit of thought into it and could back with my proper list of who are the greatest of 'All time' though tomorro.

Apologies for my lazy post

floggg · 15-10-2009 11:19AM

MrKingsley wrote: »

I didnt realise i was opening a cans of worms with that list.

I should have said really that they were just personal choices. I would say that in 2 months 3 of those 5 will have changed. I dip in and out of a lot of music. Just at the minute thats what Im in to.

Ill put a bit of thought into it and could back with my proper list of who are the greatest of 'All time' though tomorro.

Apologies for my lazy post

no, each to their own. I'm not knocking the choices, just commenting on them.

Boom_Bap · 15-10-2009 11:33AM

MrKingsley wrote: »

I didnt realise i was opening a cans of worms with that list.

I should have said really that they were just personal choices. I would say that in 2 months 3 of those 5 will have changed. I dip in and out of a lot of music. Just at the minute thats what Im in to.

Ill put a bit of thought into it and could back with my proper list of who are the greatest of 'All time' though tomorro.

Apologies for my lazy post

that's why i find it difficult to narrow down a top 5, it tends to change too much or you forget someone.

EDIT - Really digging the new Chalie 2na stuff but i wasnt a fan of his first solo release.

mufcboy1999 · 18-10-2009 07:36PM

in no paticular order

biggie
ll cool j
tupac
eminem
jay z

bigwormbundoran · 01-11-2009 03:55PM

In no particular order because that would kill me with the effort id have to put in to get it:

Rakim
Big Daddy Kane
Big L
Nas
Tupac

(Notable absences: Biggie, KRS One, Royce 5 9, Ice Cube)

Danow247 · 02-11-2009 01:07PM

My top 5 i would listen to most would be:

1) Biggie - His 2 albums are just ridiculous. Imagine the music this guy would be releasing now if he was still around.

2) Jay-Z - Absolute genius. I put biggie ahead just because i love him. But jay has consistently dropped solid albums year after year. And for Reasonable Doubt alone he deserves his place on my list.

3) Eminem - Basically introduced me to hip hop. First 3 albums were savage. Encore was good not great. Relapse was great but imo after a few weeks forgettable. Still though great to have him back releasing albums as he is a genius and hopefully relapse 2 will be more old school Em.

4) Dr. Dre - Just for 2001. I dont know how many times ive listened to this album from start to finish. To me it is flawless. People will dissagree but i could put that album on repeat for the day and not get tired of it.

5) 2 pac - Love him but have gone off him lately. Id say im due a good listen of All eyes on Me soon. But lets be honest this guy is a legen but hyped too much to be the greatest of all time imo.

Other rappers i listen to religiously: The Game, Kanye West, 50 Cent, Lupe fiasco, J Cole (this fella is gna be huge), Snoop, Method Man, Nas. Could go on all day.

I find very interesting reading others top 5's and there are loads of people who i havent even heard of. Like for example:

Pharaoh Monch - never heard of him
Phonte - never heard of him
Rakim - Have heard of him but never heard his music.
Talib Kewli - Again have heard of him but not his music

Am i missing out on absolute classics here? Because if people are putting them ahead of the likes of biggie & jay they must be savage. I must go on a downloading spree later and hear some of these.

spacecoyote · 02-11-2009 02:03PM

I always find these threads almost impossible to list as they tend to change with my mood. My top 5 of all time (for now

) would be (this is from a viewpoint of if one of their albums came on in my shuffle on the mp3 player, rather than who I think is technically the best MC)

in no order:
Pharoahe Monch (lyrically light years ahead of the majority of MCs out there)
Black Thought (love his tone & delivery)
Mos Def (mainly because some of his songs are up there as my favourite Hip-hop songs ever)
Common (his more recent stuff hasn't been as good, but his first couple of albums are amazing)
GZA (the strongest MC in one of the greatest Hip Hop groups)

Special mention to a rapper named A.L. (think it stands for All Lyrics). Only ever heard one track by him, called "Lyrics". Its on the Lyricist Lounge Volume 1, and is just a phenomenal track, best track on a great album which features a lot of bigger name MCs

floggg · 02-11-2009 09:24PM

Danow247 wrote: »

My top 5 i would listen to most would be:

1) Biggie - His 2 albums are just ridiculous. Imagine the music this guy would be releasing now if he was still around.

2) Jay-Z - Absolute genius. I put biggie ahead just because i love him. But jay has consistently dropped solid albums year after year. And for Reasonable Doubt alone he deserves his place on my list.

3) Eminem - Basically introduced me to hip hop. First 3 albums were savage. Encore was good not great. Relapse was great but imo after a few weeks forgettable. Still though great to have him back releasing albums as he is a genius and hopefully relapse 2 will be more old school Em.

4) Dr. Dre - Just for 2001. I dont know how many times ive listened to this album from start to finish. To me it is flawless. People will dissagree but i could put that album on repeat for the day and not get tired of it.

5) 2 pac - Love him but have gone off him lately. Id say im due a good listen of All eyes on Me soon. But lets be honest this guy is a legen but hyped too much to be the greatest of all time imo.

Other rappers i listen to religiously: The Game, Kanye West, 50 Cent, Lupe fiasco, J Cole (this fella is gna be huge), Snoop, Method Man, Nas. Could go on all day.

I find very interesting reading others top 5's and there are loads of people who i havent even heard of. Like for example:

Pharaoh Monch - never heard of him
Phonte - never heard of him
Rakim - Have heard of him but never heard his music.
Talib Kewli - Again have heard of him but not his music

Am i missing out on absolute classics here? Because if people are putting them ahead of the likes of biggie & jay they must be savage. I must go on a downloading spree later and hear some of these.

Yes, you are! Very much so.

Seriously, and not being smart, but i was so very surprised to see Dre in a top 5 rapper list, but then the penny dropped when i saw you hand't heard of pharoahe et al!

Since making my list, i've started listening to Organised Konfusion (the group pharoahe started out with) and he's pushing his way to the top of the list. his tecnhinque is flawless, his flow, breathe control, delivery everything, and lyrically and conceptually he is light years ahead of most rappers.

I gather your more into gangsta rap than anything else at the minute, but start out with some pharaohe monch, black star (mos def and talib kweli) and common and you will be opened up to a whole new world in hip-hop!

gleep · 02-11-2009 09:54PM

In no particular order

Jay Z - Has to be one of the best, not just for consistency but you can listen to an album for years and still hear a line that you get for the first time and it knocks your socks off -"......Cola, Hova still gettin it on with soda,diet, no sir we loose no weight......" Lines like this make him a legend.

Kanye West - May not be everyone's cuppa but he's amazingly talented, he just uses it differently. He's got a big range and songs like Never Let You Down are the most uplifting ever in hip hop.

Eminem - Came on the scene and took over. So much real power in his early stuff but have to agree that his later sh1t was,well sh1t!

Tupac - Like Eminem - raw power in his raps just grabbed you, a lot of imagery that you could nearly see what he rapped about.

Common, Talib Kweli, Mos Def -Cheating a bit here but Im throwing these in together, heard a lot of collaborations between them so its justified! On their own they've made some classics and also together.

horsebox09 · 03-11-2009 12:02AM

Danow247 wrote: »

My top 5 i would listen to most would be:

1) Biggie - His 2 albums are just ridiculous. Imagine the music this guy would be releasing now if he was still around.

2) Jay-Z - Absolute genius. I put biggie ahead just because i love him. But jay has consistently dropped solid albums year after year. And for Reasonable Doubt alone he deserves his place on my list.

3) Eminem - Basically introduced me to hip hop. First 3 albums were savage. Encore was good not great. Relapse was great but imo after a few weeks forgettable. Still though great to have him back releasing albums as he is a genius and hopefully relapse 2 will be more old school Em.

4) Dr. Dre - Just for 2001. I dont know how many times ive listened to this album from start to finish. To me it is flawless. People will dissagree but i could put that album on repeat for the day and not get tired of it.

5) 2 pac - Love him but have gone off him lately. Id say im due a good listen of All eyes on Me soon. But lets be honest this guy is a legen but hyped too much to be the greatest of all time imo.

Other rappers i listen to religiously: The Game, Kanye West, 50 Cent, Lupe fiasco, J Cole (this fella is gna be huge), Snoop, Method Man, Nas. Could go on all day.

I find very interesting reading others top 5's and there are loads of people who i havent even heard of. Like for example:

Pharaoh Monch - never heard of him
Phonte - never heard of him
Rakim - Have heard of him but never heard his music.
Talib Kewli - Again have heard of him but not his music

Am i missing out on absolute classics here? Because if people are putting them ahead of the likes of biggie & jay they must be savage. I must go on a downloading spree later and hear some of these.

Ive got a similar taste in hip hop to you and if you've never heard of pharoahe monch then you're missing out on probably 4 classic albums, seriously!
As flogg said, the dude is a genius

Phonte is good, i havent heard too much of him but he's is very smooth and laid back, im actually gonna check out some more of his stuff

Rakim is the godfather of hip hop, his stuff does sound dated but listening to him you'll see where alot of mc's got their styles from

Im not big on Talib Kweli, but alot of heads call Blackstarr and Reflection Eternal classics

Check out the likes of big l aswell, if your looking to get into more hip hop check out some mc's that people have listed that you never heard of, thats what i do!

Boom_Bap · 06-11-2009 10:46AM

spacecoyote wrote: »

Special mention to a rapper named A.L. (think it stands for All Lyrics). Only ever heard one track by him, called "Lyrics". Its on the Lyricist Lounge Volume 1, and is just a phenomenal track, best track on a great album which features a lot of bigger name MCs

I'm always looking out for this guy, here#s the track you referenced:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kVW6-TwKqU

the only other thing i can remember by him was a guest spot on a DJ Honda album.....possibly also a guest spot on a terror suad album.

BLITZ_Molloy · 06-11-2009 11:06AM

1. Tupac
2. Tupac
3. Tupac
4. Tupac
5. Strictly Dope (cos they had Tupac in the group)

spacecoyote · 06-11-2009 11:08AM

Cheers for that Boom. Yeah I had heard he guested on a Honda Album, I think it was "H" or "H2", not sure. I had one of them years ago, but a bloke I worked with at the time nicked it. Was agood album which I never replaced, had a nice Grand Pubah & Sadat X track if I remember correctly!

spacecoyote · 06-11-2009 11:12AM

BLITZ_Molloy wrote: »

1. Tupac
2. Tupac
3. Tupac
4. Tupac
5. Strictly Dope (cos they had Tupac in the group)

Not too sure I agree with your choice for 4th on the list, he doesn't sem to fit in with the rest of your choices :rolleyes:

Boom_Bap · 06-11-2009 07:56PM

spacecoyote wrote: »

Cheers for that Boom. Yeah I had heard he guested on a Honda Album, I think it was "H" or "H2", not sure. I had one of them years ago, but a bloke I worked with at the time nicked it. Was agood album which I never replaced, had a nice Grand Pubah & Sadat X track if I remember correctly!

it's a good album, must dig it out again

horsebox09 · 10-11-2009 05:08PM

Thought about this a little more, and realised i cant really only pick 5

Here's my new list, it's pretty much in order

1. Wu Tang ( everything they done that was classic was done collectivelly, so I can't choose one member )
2. Kool G Rap
3. Big L
4. Pharoahe Monch
5. Rakim
6. NaS
7. Eminem
8. Masta Ace
9. B.I.G
10. Big Daddy Kane

It's a toss up as to how 8 - 10 are placed, but the rest is in order

Top 5 Dead or Alive?

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