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Supreme Court says no women need apply to Golf Club. Mod warning post 119

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Comments

  • #272
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    WindSock wrote: »
    No. I am not against a male only golf club. I am against that they feel they must make it a policy to exclude female membership yet let them play on the course. And exclude females from socialising in the club in which they are allowed play. They call it a Golf Club. Why not just call it a Mens Club? (The social part)
    This is a little confusing - am I right in saying you wouldn't have a problem if they banned women altogether?


  • #273
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Zulu wrote: »
    This is a little confusing - am I right in saying you wouldn't have a problem if they banned women altogether?

    I've already addressed this to another poster.


  • #274
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    WindSock wrote: »
    I didn't say it wasn't. But women aren't excluded from playing. They are excluded from the Golf Club Membership. Doesn't really make much sense.

    Can they do that to black people?

    Well I'm sure membership allows them to have access to other facilities in the gold club.

    Ones that make the male membership feel uncomfortable or they would have joined a club that allowed female members if they wanted to socialise with women after playing golf.

    I don't get the argument, if this was the other way around, I don't think you'd have any problem with it based on what you've said in previous posts.

    If these men have problems being around women in a social environment then let them be on their own. It doesn't cause any problems, forcing them to allow women would most likely cause tension.


  • #275
    Procasinator
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Procasinator


    WindSock wrote: »
    No. I am not against a male only golf club. I am against that they feel they must make it a policy to exclude female membership yet let them play on the course. And exclude females from socialising in the club in which they are allowed play. They call it a Golf Club. Why not just call it a Mens Club? (The social part)

    Okay, but does the name matter in the grand scheme of things? You agree they can have a male only club. But you don't like the fact that the girls are allowed to use some of the club facilities, but are not allowed to join the social club.

    My old college had a bar. People outside of the college were allowed to drink there most of the time, except for some events. They were, however, not allowed to join the club.

    I can go to many gyms without joining them, but I might have some disadvantages: higher cost per visit, can't get programmes/assessments from staff, etc.

    I don't really see the problem here, besides you nit-picking on the name of the club.


  • #276
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    WindSock wrote: »
    I've already addressed this to another poster.
    You did, I just wanted you to confirm I got it right; I didn't want to misquote you.

    So I'm correct in saying: you'd have no problem if they banned women altogether? ie: you've no problem with clubs/groups/societies that exclude people based on their gender?


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  • #277
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    thebman wrote: »
    Ones that make the male membership feel uncomfortable or they would have joined a club that allowed female members if they wanted to socialise with women after playing golf.

    I don't get the argument, if this was the other way around, I don't think you'd have any problem with it based on what you've said in previous posts.

    Those posts were referring to Curves and Pole dancing. Not to a social club.
    If these men have problems being around women in a social environment then let them be on their own. It doesn't cause any problems,

    But don't disguise it as something else for which it isn't. Then you don't have to make up rules to exclude anyone as everyone knows where it stands.
    forcing them to allow women would most likely cause tension.

    But forcing to keep women out, doesn't?


  • #278
    Trankton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 222 ✭✭Trankton


    WindSock wrote: »
    Can they do that to black people?

    They can do it to black women!!!


  • #279
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Procasinator wrote: »
    Okay, but does the name matter in the grand scheme of things? You agree they can have a male only club. But you don't like the fact that the girls are allowed to use some of the club facilities, but are not allowed to join the social club.

    It's a bit exclusionary, don't you think?
    My old college had a bar. People outside of the college were allowed to drink there most of the time, except for some events. They were, however, not allowed to join the club.

    As far as I am aware of, anyone in this country has access a 3rd level education.

    I can go to many gyms without joining them, but I might have some disadvantages: higher cost per visit, can't get programmes/assessments from staff, etc.

    You can join a high paying gym if you have the ability to earn more money. A person can't change their gender or skin colour as easily.
    I don't really see the problem here, besides you nit-picking on the name of the club.

    Like I said before. It is misleading. Exclusionary and I don't see it as nit-picking when women were excluded, by law for a long time from many many places.

    I like to think we have grown up a bit since then and become a bit more aware and that we don't need petty little rules and laws made to stop the girls crossing over to the boys side of the room to talk to them, again.


  • #280
    Trankton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 222 ✭✭Trankton


    WindSock wrote: »
    I am more interested in general attitudes towards women in this country rather than a sports and social club, tbh.

    Then why are you continually posting in a forum about Portmarnock Golf Club, I'm sure there are plenty of equality type forums you could get stuck into and actually stick to the point!!


  • #281
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Trankton wrote: »
    They can do it to black women!!!

    Black Jewish Lesbians, no doubt :D









    White people only club. Try and start one, and see how far you will get.


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  • #282
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Trankton wrote: »
    Then why are you continually posting in a forum about Portmarnock Golf Club, I'm sure there are plenty of equality type forums you could get stuck into and actually stick to the point!!

    The forum is AH. Anyone can post in it. Unless you are gay.


  • #283
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    This is just pointless and going round and round in circles. Basically Windsock believes it's "exclusionary" to not allow women membership to a golf club but play there, but it's ok for a gym to completely exclude men from any activity or membership of Curves fitness clubs. Sounds sexist but let's all remember that "women were excluded, by law for a long time from many many places" and "we don't need petty little rules and laws made to stop the girls crossing over to the boys side of the room to talk to them, again".

    Except we need rules stopping boys crossing over to the girls room because it would be a potentially "dangerous" situation. Incredible trolling, I'm in awe


  • #284
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    This is just pointless and going round and round in circles. Basically Windsock believes it's "exclusionary" to not allow women membership to a golf club but play there, but it's ok for a gym to completely exclude men from any activity or membership of Curves fitness clubs. Sounds sexist but let's all remember that "women were excluded, by law for a long time from many many places" and "we don't need petty little rules and laws made to stop the girls crossing over to the boys side of the room to talk to them, again".

    Except we need rules stopping boys crossing over to the girls room because it would be a potentially "dangerous" situation. Incredible trolling, I'm in awe

    It's a Womens' gym. The equipment and programmes are in place to suit a womans physique. I have been over this many times, yes. It is not like with like. It is more similar to a womens shower.
    I have also said plenty of times I have no problem with a Mens' gym.

    Men and women have different bodies to each other. Shock horror!!!

    What Curves isn't - A social club dressed up as a Golf Club that excludes a gender from joing by law, just because.


  • #285
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    In fairness folks, the hypocrisy being posted here is as clear as day to everyone. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
    Just remember, exclusion based on gender is ok. See here.


  • #286
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Clearly, men and women's bodies have difference, but the basics behind health and fitness apply to ALL equally.

    I would be interested in hearing about this ''special'' equipment curves has, please tell me more. How do women in unisex gyms ever cope? :rolleyes:


  • #287
    Trankton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 222 ✭✭Trankton


    speedboatchase wrote: »
    Incredible trolling, I'm in awe

    Not sure it's trolling, as over the years I've found many of the feminist types (not all) to have attitudes like this (particularly those crazy extreme feminists).

    They're like spoilt children who when they get everything they want decide that they also want everthing belonging to everyone else. And why should they get it, well because they're women of course.:)

    I agree that this country was very male orientated way back in the day but I believe we have moved on from this and have a very equal society. So now we just get all the nit-picking on all the little issues as they have nothing else to be whining about.

    Again, this is not directed against all women or feminists but against that small minority which exist just to complain and make life difficult for everyone else.


  • #288
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    WindSock wrote: »
    What Curves isn't - A social club dressed up as a Golf Club that excludes a gender from joing by law, just because.
    ...don't forget the ICA is an exclusive social club.


  • #289
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    Zulu wrote: »
    ...don't forget the ICA is an exclusive social club.


    Windsock, should I be allowed join the ICA?


  • #290
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    I don't know, do you want to? Can I join the CYMS? Don't really want to as I have no interest.


  • #291
    DeVore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,387 ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    WindSock wrote: »
    I don't know, do you want to? Can I join the CYMS? Don't really want to as I have no interest.
    Classic deflection.


    The question was "should he be allowed".

    DeV.


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  • #292
    Warfi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 633 ✭✭✭Warfi


    Trankton wrote: »
    Not sure it's trolling, as over the years I've found many of the feminist types (not all) to have attitudes like this (particularly those crazy extreme feminists).

    They're like spoilt children who when they get everything they want decide that they also want everthing belonging to everyone else. And why should they get it, well because they're women of course.:)

    To say that Windsock (or anyone else for that matter) are trolling and have 'feminist attitudes' because they have an opinion that's different to yours does not an argument make.

    First of all, women got the equailty they enjoy today because women in the past got up off their ar*es and fought for their (and every woman's) rights. I'm sure back in the day they were probably labelled as troublemakers because they dared (imagine that?) to speak their minds.

    Remind you of anything?

    Now there are arguments about women being members of a golf club. Like Windsock, I wouldn't give a damn about the club or joining it. Let them have their male club if they want it. But obviously somebody's annoyed about it and decided to take it to court. They have every right to do so. Maybe the people who are fighting for this are worried that society will slip back into old ways if things are left unchecked. I don't know, I'd have to talk to them and find out.

    So should you by the looks of things. You seem to think a woman having an opinion is akin to a woman having an 'attitude'. That's far more worrying than a male member only golf club, in my opinion.


  • #293
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    DeVore wrote: »
    Classic deflection.


    The question was "should he be allowed".

    DeV.

    I don't think there should be a law in place that excludes him from joining, if he so wants to. I don't know if there is a law or policy in place that excludes men or anyone else who don't fit the demographic. Are city women allowed in?

    At least it is what it says it is.


  • #294
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    This...
    Warfi wrote: »
    You seem to think a woman having an opinion is akin to a woman having an 'attitude'. That's far more worrying than a male member only golf club, in my opinion.

    Is also what worries me the most.


  • #295
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    I love women and their opinions.

    I just don't like hypocrites.


  • #296
    MikeC101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    WindSock wrote: »
    You don't have to wear skin tight leather pants on a golf course if you don't want to.

    Shouldn't I have the right to wear what I want in the safe and secure environment of my club without worrying about being ogled like a piece of meat?
    WindSock wrote: »
    Ability has nothing to do with women on the course. Likewise, not having men in a gym. Or in a shower for that matter.

    The point is men can be as insecure about things as women. In this case, it may be ability. Why not? You are not the sole arbitrator of what's ok to feel insecure about and what isn't.

    For the record, I think the Portmarnock rules of allowing women to play but not become members is quite silly, but their club, their rules.


  • #297
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    MagicMarker wrote: »

    I just don't like hypocrites.

    I also dislike hypocrites. Guess we have something in common afterall.


  • #298
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    I love women and their opinions.

    I just don't like hypocrites.

    QFT.


  • #299
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    This thread should be closed now. No point feeding the trolls any longer.


  • #300
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    MikeC101 wrote: »
    Shouldn't I have the right to wear what I want in the safe and secure environment of my club without worrying about being ogled like a piece of meat?

    Sure. What if there were gays in the club though?
    The point is men can be as insecure about things as women. In this case, it may be ability. Why not? You are not the sole arbitrator of what's ok to feel insecure about and what isn't.


    You are right, I amn't. I am only giving reasons as to why I believe these thing exist in the first place.


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  • #301
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    Agree, it's completely devolved. I'm glad the prevailing attitude from the offset from majority of posters was that the ruling was correct

    *scuttles off to Films forum*


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