Dutch gardener jailed

walshb · 04-11-2009 03:42PM

Auvers wrote: »

just wondering where youre ill-informed rabid hatred of any mention of drugs comes from

Rabid hatred?

Hey, I love coffee. It's a drug. I despise drug dealers. Wow, shame on me!:rolleyes:

genericguy · 04-11-2009 03:43PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I agree, I had my first splif at 14, I was a rent boy by 16 sucking off auld fells on bagget street bridge for herion, I eventually started dealing cocaine and that's when my life changed for the better, suddenly I was making more money than ever and could finally stop turning dirty tricks for pennys.
Now i've become pretty successfull at it and am able to take care of my ma who lives all alone.
Your right cannibas is a gateway drug, without it I would never have found cocaine and had the opportunity to turn my life around.

I would be complelty against legalisation of drugs of any kind, i'm an active member of the vitners assocation and hope people like yourself keep the fight alive so I can continue to enjoy my comfortable lifestyle.

Thanks again it really is great to see someone campaign on behalf of me and all the other drug dealers, the longer you keep it illegal the longer we stay in business.

spot on man. the only reason weed is not legal in ireland is because a lot less people would be going to the pub to pay e5 for a pint if they could have a few joints at home.

let's be honest, the vintners association is the real government of ireland.

OutlawPete · 04-11-2009 03:47PM

walshb wrote: »

I despise drug dealers.

Antonio Montana was sound though ..

denhaagenite · 04-11-2009 03:48PM

Pat Sheen wrote: »

Cannabis growing is a common pursuit in many countries. However in holland it is considered a hobby thanks to lenient legal penalties. Dutch home growers have none of the paranoia generally displayed by growers in other countries. Commercial growers on the other hand must be security conscious but that is more a precaution against others stealing a valuable crop.

I live in Holland. Nobody I know here grows it. They raid houses and have other measures in place to catch growers. I do know someone who grows tomatoes though. And tulips.

segaBOY · 04-11-2009 03:52PM

I have been unable to find any other link to this story on the net so I question the particulars.

A man who went up before Judge Delahunt escaped jail last year:

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/amateur-cannabis-grower-avoids-jail-1907967.html

I did manage to find three entries for Arthur Nunnokhoven in the courts diary-in which he is up before Judge Delahunt but that's it, nothing about the sentence etc.

Can anyone find anything else that doesn't involve the Metro?

Auvers · 04-11-2009 03:54PM

walshb wrote: »

Rabid hatred?

Hey, I love coffee. It's a drug. I despise drug dealers. Wow, shame on me!:rolleyes:

but you agree with prohibition so in fact you support the very law that makes the existence of drug dealers possible, the war on drugs has clearly failed so dont you think its time to reassess the law and come at this with a differnet view?

30txsbzmcu2k9w · 04-11-2009 03:55PM

walshb wrote: »

A weed grower in Ireland is a criminal. That's the law.

When homosexuality was against the law here did you think they were criminals too?

walshb · 04-11-2009 04:01PM

Posters aren't reading. I clearly indicated in another post that I am fully aware that kids
START with alcohol and cigs. I know this. They then progress on to illegal drugs.

Pat Sheen · 04-11-2009 04:03PM

denhaagenite wrote: »

I live in Holland. Nobody I know here grows it. They raid houses and have other measures in place to catch growers. I do know someone who grows tomatoes though. And tulips.

Oh really, are you Dutch or Irish living in Holland? Anyway I'm sure you know the gedoogbeleid policy allows you to grow up to 5 plants without prosecution. I met many people who openly admitted to having plants at home and I was only ever there once and just for a few days.

Irishcrx · 04-11-2009 04:03PM

walshb wrote: »

Is Cannabis legal to grow here?

Is it legal to sell here?

Until it is, the I think you should chill a bit.

Also, do you think all drug addicts start their careers on the big horrible
heroin and Cocaine? Do all young kids start their careers in drug use with
heroin and Cocaine?

Do you think dealers start their career on the big stuff like Heroin and Cocaine?

No, they progress to this from the bottom to the top, and Cannabis is
part of the drug chain, the filty and disgusting chain that it is

See,

I agree with you on the drug chain, and I don't like hard drugs never touched them, I don't like the drug industry. BUT would this not be a middle finger to the chain that this chap decided to grow his own for personal use, and maybe give a bit to a friend or two?Therefore undercutting the drug system and not supporting it.

I have grown weed in the past, so have friends of mine I am not ashamed of it, I done it because I have my own beliefs on what harm it does and not what I am told of it or told what I can and cannot do when I am causing nobody else ay harm.

I didn't sell it or deal, I didn't push it on anyone. I did it because I enjoy a joint on some evenings and weekends after I have worked my ass off paying my bills and mortgage all week, I don't drink much as a social outlet, too much money, hangovers, makes me feel worst than having a bit of smoke would.

By doing it, I cut out using drug dealers, paying them X ammount for really bad quality stuff that is harming my lungs, grew really nice stuff at a low price with my own seeds, supply for myself for months...no dealers.

Yet, I was caught I am a criminal. Something wrong there...

walshb · 04-11-2009 04:04PM

Octavia Nutty Magnum wrote: »

When homosexuality was against the law here did you think they were criminals too?

No, never! Again, I don't see your point, because if tomorrow they make drug dealing legal, I will always think they are criminal. See! Especially those dealing Heroin. If tomorrow they make rape and murder legal, I will always think of them as criminals.

Cannabis is open to debate I would say.

OutlawPete · 04-11-2009 04:04PM

walshb wrote: »

Posters aren't reading. I clearly indicated in another post that I am fully aware that kids
START with alcohol and cigs. I know this. They then progress on to illegal drugs.

You could say they start with Coca Cola too though.

walshb · 04-11-2009 04:06PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

You could say they start with Coca Cola too though.

Or breast milk?;)

30txsbzmcu2k9w · 04-11-2009 04:11PM

walshb wrote: »

No, never! Again, I don't see your point, because if tomorrow they make drug dealing legal, I will always think they are criminal. See! Especially those dealing Heroin.

Cannabis is open to debate I would say.

Well that's a cop out in my opinion. Because up till now you relayed all posters' debate on cannabis back to the law and its illegality.
So can we safely assume the law is not always right then, sir? Can it be possible that Cannabis, a plant which grows naturally from the ground, whether it be Colombia or from someones back garden, perhaps should not be illegal?
Ridiculous sentence btw.

walshb · 04-11-2009 04:16PM

Octavia Nutty Magnum wrote: »

Well that's a cop out in my opinion. Because up till now you relayed all posters' debate on cannabis back to the law and its illegality.
So can we safely assume the law is not always right then, sir? Can it be possible that Cannabis, a plant which grows naturally from the ground, whether it be Colombia or from someones back garden, perhaps should not be illegal?
Ridiculous sentence btw.

How is it a cop out?

I clearly said that I don't believe that Cannabis should be legalised. I don't think it should be. I can't get any clearer than this. Regarding the specific law relating to Cannabis, I think the law is right.

Now, is the law generally always right? No!

JupiterKid · 04-11-2009 04:22PM

walshb wrote: »

How is it a cop out?

I clearly said that I don't believe that Cannabis should be legalised. I don't think it should be. I can't get any clearer than this. Regarding the specific law relating to Cannabis, I think the law is right.

Now, is the law generally always right? No!

Well, I totally disagree with you. If alcohol was discovered last year, it would be labelled a class A drug. Make no mistake. The are many, many vested intetrests out there who want to keep cannabis illegal for their own self preservation.

This really shows that thew law is an ass. Rapists get away with much more lenient sentences. Ireland is still a very backward country.

Sure being gay in this country was illegal 20 years too - was that right and OK?

denhaagenite · 04-11-2009 04:23PM

Pat Sheen wrote: »

Oh really, are you Dutch or Irish living in Holland? Anyway I'm sure you know the gedoogbeleid policy allows you to grow up to 5 plants without prosecution. I met many people who openly admitted to having plants at home and I was only ever there once and just for a few days.

Amsterdam? I'm Irish, but most of the "middle" dutch won't do that, tolerance policy or not. You find a very different type of people in Amsterdam to the rest of the country, and tourism is the main business there. It's embarassing to go up there and be compared to the drunk/ stoned/ coked etc tourists Ireland spews out whenever Aer Lingus has a sale. Patience is also growing thin on the decriminalisation status, there are talks of getting rid of it altogether. Interesting article from the people for legalisation though:

http://www.dailysmoker.com/Amsterdam/20/Drugpolicy.htm

Although having said that, apparently Venlo in Noord- Brabant is said to have the most coffeeshops per head.... Can't remember if I read it or heard it from somewhere....

walshb · 04-11-2009 04:24PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

Well, I totally disagree with you. If alcohol was discovered last year, it would be labelled a class A drug. Make no mistake. The are many, many vested intetrests out there who want to keep cannabis illegal for their own self preservation.

This really shows that thew law is an ass. Rapists get away with much more lenient sentences. Ireland is still a very backward country.

Sure being gay in this country was illegal 20 years too - was that right and OK?

I think you should read my reply earlier to the whole gay/homo laws that were here.

Look, this debate on Cannabis has been going on for years, with points and valid points for both sides. I just happen to be, at the moment, on the side of the ILLEGAL brigade.

As for a backward country. Isn't Cannabis and its laws pretty much the same here and in most other
western countries? So, are we all wrong and backward?

Also, is a 5 year sentence the maximum for possession here in Ireland?
Maybe it's less, I am not sure.

If so, that Dutch guy got off lightly.

Terry · 04-11-2009 04:32PM

Pace2008 wrote: »

This isn't the solution at all. People are always going to want drugs; it may be hard for you to comprehend but free will exists and people’s attitudes aren’t going to change. By adopting your approach you’re just making the illegal drugs trade more lucrative, so the people who profit are the smarter, more ruthless criminals and criminal gangs.

I don't.
Not illegal ones anyway.

Pat Sheen wrote: »

He's dutch. It is a common hobby in holland. He is not in holland though, but that should make no difference on how he expresses himself.

Exactly. He is not in Holland.
He is in Ireland and when you are in Ireland, you are subject to Irish laws, whether you agree with them or not.

Funny how so many people are defending this chap, but if it was a Roma they would be calling for him to be deported.

Have any of you ever though of trying to get cannabis legalised?
I mean aside from whining about it here or signing some petition that ends up being used as a roach?

Then there's the sheer hypocrisy.
The same people calling for legalisation are the ones who whine about skangers.
The skangers are the middlemen ffs.

Terry · 04-11-2009 04:34PM

denhaagenite wrote: »

Amsterdam? I'm Irish, but most of the "middle" dutch won't do that, tolerance policy or not. You find a very different type of people in Amsterdam to the rest of the country, and tourism is the main business there. It's embarassing to go up there and be compared to the drunk/ stoned/ coked etc tourists Ireland spews out whenever Aer Lingus has a sale. Patience is also growing thin on the decriminalisation status, there are talks of getting rid of it altogether. Interesting article from the people for legalisation though:

http://www.dailysmoker.com/Amsterdam/20/Drugpolicy.htm

Although having said that, apparently Venlo in Noord- Brabant is said to have the most coffeeshops per head.... Can't remember if I read it or heard it from somewhere....

Sorry, but that counts for nothing.
Pat Sheen was over there once and spoke to a few people.
Emperical evidence if there ever was any.

denhaagenite · 04-11-2009 04:37PM

Terry wrote: »

Funny how so many people are defending this chap, but if it was a Roma they would be calling for him to be deported.

Ah c'mere. While I may disagree with him growing it and think that he should've got a sentence, I think this is a bit harsh. Doesn't matter where he comes from. Three years is totally out of proportion though, they should put the harsh sentences in where there is a harsh crime.

JupiterKid · 04-11-2009 04:38PM

Is Ireland backwards? hmm, let's see...

Most primary schools still in the hands of religious orders;

These same schools run by religious orders allowed so sack gay and lesbian teachers;

Women still do not have full reproductive choice;

Same-sex couples cannot have their partnerships legally recognised;

Transexuals cannot get their birth certificates changed to reflect their new gender;

Corrupt politicans and bankers who have brought this little island to its complete knees economically get away with golden handshakes; a middle aged Dutch man growing a bit of cannabis gets 3 years in jail...

Yes, Ireland is so progressive.:rolleyes:

Pat Sheen · 04-11-2009 04:38PM

denhaagenite wrote: »

Amsterdam? I'm Irish, but most of the "middle" dutch won't do that, tolerance policy or not. You find a very different type of people in Amsterdam to the rest of the country, and tourism is the main business there. It's embarassing to go up there and be compared to the drunk/ stoned/ coked etc tourists Ireland spews out whenever Aer Lingus has a sale. Patience is also growing thin on the decriminalisation status, there are talks of getting rid of it altogether. Interesting article from the people for legalisation though:

http://www.dailysmoker.com/Amsterdam/20/Drugpolicy.htm

Although having said that, apparently Venlo in Noord- Brabant is said to have the most coffeeshops per head.... Can't remember if I read it or heard it from somewhere....

No, well Amsterdam briefly but I was visiting someone in Leiden. I had only been in Amsterdam five minutes and saw someone selling plants on the street. Most people will not grow it because most don't use it, and only a proportion of those who do use it will grow it. I think in this man's case and all personal cultivation cases as long as this drug continues to remain illegal the law should be the most lenient it can be, since the person in question is obviously not funding criminal activity on an ongoing basis as a regular user.

walshb · 04-11-2009 04:41PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

Is Ireland backwards? hmm, let's see...

Most primary schools still in the hands of religious orders;

These same schools run by religious orders allowed so sack gay and lesbian teachers;

Women still do not have full reproductive choice;

Same-sex couples cannot have their partnerships legally recognised;

Transexuals cannot get their birth certificates changed to reflect their new gender;

Corrupt politicans and bankers who have brought this little island to its complete knees economically get away with golden hsndshakes; a middl ages Dutch man growing a bit of cannabis gets 3 years in jail...

Yes, Ireland is so progressive.:rolleyes:

Ehm ,and what has any of the listed things got to do with Cannabis laws?

That's the query I was asking.

Regarding this specific law, we aren't all that backward, at least in
relation to many other western countries

Pace2008 · 04-11-2009 04:41PM

Terry wrote: »

I don't.
Not illegal ones anyway.

I wasn't saying everyone wants illegal drugs, that'd be absurd. Some people prefer to stay sober, some people prefer beer, some people prefer weed, some people prefer euphoric empathogens etc. There will always be a significant market for psychoactives of all kinds.

Terry wrote: »

Have any of you ever though of trying to get cannabis legalised?
I mean aside from whining about it here or signing some petition that ends up being used as a roach?

If you’re interested in professional career it’s difficult to campaign for legalisation. Because of the stigma attached to drug use you could endanger your employment by speaking out.

Terry · 04-11-2009 04:47PM

denhaagenite wrote: »

Ah c'mere. While I may disagree with him growing it and think that he should've got a sentence, I think this is a bit harsh. Doesn't matter where he comes from. Three years is totally out of proportion though, they should put the harsh sentences in where there is a harsh crime.

I'd imagine there's a bit more to it than just having plants.

For starters, he didn't co-operate with the authorities. That's at least a year off any sentence.

Pace2008 wrote: »

If you’re interested in professional career it’s difficult to campaign for legalisation. Because of the stigma attached to drug use you could endanger your employment by speaking out.

So you would rather break the law than try to change it?
You're more at risk from random drug tests that way. Not to mention the risk of arrest and prosecution.

denhaagenite · 04-11-2009 05:01PM

Terry wrote: »

I'd imagine there's a bit more to it than just having plants.

For starters, he didn't co-operate with the authorities. That's at least a year off any sentence.

No, I was referring to your comment on how if it was a Roma (beggar?) we'd be saying he should be deported.

If he was a person who consistently shoplifted and mugged people, I wouldn't say he should be deported, I would say he should be sentenced accordingly. Which he's not, so I'm not. Anyway back on topic for me

Davei141 · 04-11-2009 05:02PM

Terry wrote: »

I don't.
Not illegal ones anyway.

Yeah you only abuse the legal stuff like Drink and smokes. They may be legal but don't kid yourself for a second that it is safer, and thats the whole point, it doesn't make sense.

Terry · 04-11-2009 05:04PM

denhaagenite wrote: »

No, I was referring to your comment on how if it was a Roma (beggar?) we'd be saying he should be deported.

If he was a person who consistently shoplifted and mugged people, I wouldn't say he should be deported, I would say he should be sentenced accordingly. Which he's not, so I'm not. Anyway back on topic for me

I didn't mention mugging or shoplifting.
I mentioned the Roma people.

You pretty much proved my point with your stereotyping there.

Terry · 04-11-2009 05:05PM

Davei141 wrote: »

Yeah you only abuse the legal stuff like Drink and smokes. They may be legal but don't kid yourself for a second that it is safer, and thats the whole point, it doesn't make sense.

I'm not new.
I know what's safe and what is not safe.

Dutch gardener jailed

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