GHB blamed in party hospitalisations...

WeWillBeReborn · 01-11-2009 09:27PM

d0gb0y wrote: »

Theres a lot of money/votes and political appaluse involved in keeping this thing going for as long as they can

So neither side is innocent. I know, I never said they didn't have their own agenda, but their motives do come with a potential positive effect to the ountry as a whole, if people are willing to heed the warnings

d0gb0y · 01-11-2009 09:31PM

WeWillBeReborn wrote: »

So neither side is innocent. I know, I never said they didn't have their own agenda, but their motives do come with a potential positive effect to the ountry as a whole, if people are willing to heed the warnings

Whats the potential postive side effect?

A drug free country?

oops I mean an illegal drug free country...this will never happen as there is far to much money in drugs to think that it will stop

d0gb0y · 01-11-2009 09:34PM

WeWillBeReborn wrote: »

They can't be critisized for trying to do something about it

But they are crimilizing alot of people for a pretty poor reason which deserves a lot more than a bit of criticism

I was caught with 0.8g of cannabis back 1998 at a music festival when I was young, its still on my police record. I had to go through a load of hassle for this and it cost me a decent bit of money to sort out including time off work. I lost all respect for the gards and our supposed justice system after that, talk about wasting police time.

yes i am still bitter about it:)

drunkmonkey · 01-11-2009 09:40PM

WeWillBeReborn wrote: »

I think if you're warned that something is dangerous and you die from it, it's your own damn fault, not the governments

Some drug deaths can be prevented. So far we've had glass mixed with pot which caused people lung problems. Dodgy cocaine that has cost people there lives and now GBH mixed with god know what but this is the problem with the black market. Every time you try something your playing russian roulette.
Every effort possible should be made to make sure the drug people are taking is as safe as possible. That should be the goal of the government and the health service, if they can make a few euro through taxes along the way then fair play to them.
With our governments current prohibition policy they are putting peoples lives at risk. Through dodgy drugs, gun crime, smuggling the list goes on, your viewpoint "they get what they deserve" is a dangerous and downright retarded position to take on the issue but it's the same as our Governments.

brandon_flowers · 01-11-2009 09:53PM

d0gb0y wrote: »

But they are crimilizing alot of people for a pretty poor reason which deserves a lot more than a bit of criticism

I was caught with 0.8g of cannabis back 1998 at a music festival when I was young, its still on my police record. I had to go through a load of hassle for this and it cost me a decent bit of money to sort out including time off work. I lost all respect for the gards and our supposed justice system after that, talk about wasting police time.

yes i am still bitter about it:)

And will be forever. Your mistake unfortunately and I dont think it was a waste of time because thats what AGS are supposed to do. Nothing personal against you though.

d0gb0y · 01-11-2009 09:56PM

brandon_flowers wrote: »

And will be forever. Your mistake unfortunately and I dont think it was a waste of time because thats what AGS are supposed to do. Nothing personal against you though.

Its always personal to the person that is involved.

wudangclan · 01-11-2009 10:06PM

i used the stuff a few times and it's safe if used properly.
it's necessary to measure out a dose,i'd normally use 20 mls,though this would vary from person to person (i started out on a 10ml dose and experimented before increasing that).
i've never mixed it with alcohol having researched advice on erowid.org before using it.
it gives a mild euphoric high and usually makes the user more personable and social (though occasionally some users may experience nausea) and theres absolutely no hangover the next day.

Bandit12 · 01-11-2009 10:15PM

Junkies tbh.

Euro_Kraut · 01-11-2009 10:16PM

I wonder have many people ended up in hospital last night after taking alcohol?

dny123456 · 01-11-2009 10:20PM

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

I wonder have many people ended up in hospital last night after taking alcohol?

You mean, how many people spent two nights in intensive care after taking alcohol?

Not many I'd hazard.

profun · 01-11-2009 10:21PM

taken it a few times. all from the same friend who makes the stuff himself.
first time i took it was possibly the greatest night of my life. the buzz was not as intense as mdma but certainly got you going. in order to take it to the clubs we put it into small durex lube bottles. obvioulsy cleaned them out first although you could still taste it. the reason we used these was becuase the amount they squirt gave the perfect amount to take. usually like 4 or 5 squirts per hour. however its important not to go over this amount as you can easily go into a coma. i was drinking heavily as well but i was grand. this was all in shanghai by the way but ive taken it in england as well and drunk at the same time but never had a problem. never had in ireland or even heard of anyone taking it here until i saw the news. whoever made this stuff in dublin obviously fcuked up the ingreients or else they all just took too much too fast.

although i did see someone fall into a coma once. and this was a very very large man who i assume took way too much all at once.

d0gb0y · 01-11-2009 10:22PM

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

I wonder have many people ended up in hospital last night after taking alcohol?

Figures will not be released as the vinters will be on to their favorite FF lapdog to shut the media up, not that irish media need to be told to shut up...they do as they are told drip drip

El Weirdo · 01-11-2009 10:28PM

dny123456 wrote: »

You mean, how many people spent two nights in intensive care after taking alcohol?

Not many I'd hazard.

Really?

Background and objective: Excessive alcohol consumption is a major cause for premature death and preventable ill health in the whole population. We set out to audit admissions to the intensive care unit (ICU) of our large teaching hospital with respect to alcohol-related admissions.

Methods: A prospective audit was conducted into alcohol-associated admissions to our university hospital adult ICU over 12 months. The following data were collected for each patient admitted: age, gender, diagnosis and amount of alcohol consumption, APACHE II score, and the probability of death.

Results:Patients with definite alcohol consumption constituted 39.1% (124 patients) of all admissions (317 patients) to the ICU. In Group 1 (89 patients), the admission was directly associated with alcohol consumption, which included heavy alcohol consumption. Group 2 (35 patients) consisted of ‘social drinkers’ and Group 3 was composed of patients who denied any alcohol intake. Group 1 had a high median APACHE II score of 19 (range 4–35) and a significantly higher mortality rate (41.6%) than Group 3 (18.4%, P < 0.001) or the entire sample studied (23.7%,P < 0.001). The results also demonstrated an incidence of pneumonia of 29.2% (26 patients) in alcohol-associated admissions compared with 22.8% (eight patients) in Group 2 and 21.8% (19 patients) in Group 3. Trauma admissions amounted to 11.4% of the patients studied (24/211 patients), 17 (70.8%) of whom were directly associated with alcohol and it included 11 pedestrians.

Conclusions: Alcohol may play a major role in the admission and mortality of ICU patients. Further investigations are warranted because our sample size is so small.

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=386976CE1A80BE4C9CAF9012D0F32BD7.tomcat1?fromPage=online&aid=464192

Wertz · 01-11-2009 10:29PM

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

I wonder have many people ended up in hospital last night after taking alcohol?

But where would the headline be in that?

Just watched RTÉ's 9 news and whilst they've at least expanded upon the drug involved they're still using street slang/sex shop brand name rather than calling it what it is...they also continued to draw a correlation between this and ecstasy, where none exists.
Bravo.

Also interesting to note that the top story on Sky is about Nutt and the other council members being sacked/resigning, but not so much as a mention of it on RTÉ news (although most of their other non Irish stories were also on Sky in more or less the same order). Way to have an agenda.

Can't wait to hear the reactionary opinions on the various daytime radio shows tomorrow...

Euro_Kraut · 01-11-2009 10:37PM

dny123456 wrote: »

You mean, how many people spent two nights in intensive care after taking alcohol?

Not many I'd hazard.

3 people have thus far spent one night in hospital. They are described as being in a stable condition. Nothing to suggest they are in ICU. Easy on the drama.

Elwierdo has already shown how alcohol is a significant factor in ICU admissions.

CamillaRhodes · 01-11-2009 11:44PM

When I was younger, for a year or two I used to take a fair amount of ecstasy at weekends. I had two bad experiences which (pretty much) ended my use of it.

One was when I took a couple of pills which were sold to my boyfriend as ecstasy and in fact had a very, very high LSD content (which I subsequently found out were known as 'snowballs') I had a bad, unexpected trip, as did all of us who took those pills that night. I also heard subsequently about a guy in Bray who gouged one of his eyes out when on a 'snowball' trip.

The second bad experience was when I'd taken a 'natural' e, i.e. one of these legal high things. Not much of a buzz off it particularly. But then later in the night I was given a real e, and that made it all kick off, again on a sorta acidy buzz. Was quite scary.

Apart from those two experiences above, however, I generally had a very, very good time on e. I found it to be a more positive drug, in terms of its impact on people, than alcohol - when it was good, and when we were educated about it.

My point: I was sorta-educated about e. I knew how many pills I could take in a night (up to 3 or maybe 4), I knew how to regulate my water intake, I knew the difference between a dancey pill and a skaggie pill, etc etc. But all of this 'education' was just picked up from mates, you never get told these things officially.

Where it all went wrong was (a) when the pills had something in them other than ecstasy. This is where legalising drugs allows the user to be sure that what they buy is what they intend to get. For as long as drugs are illegal, there is always the risk that you don't really know what you're taking (and make no mistake, people will always take drugs. Always have, always will), and (b) when I wasn't educated or aware of a bad consequence. It's since become public knowledge that mixing 'natural high' pills with real e can have a very negative effect. I simply didn't know that at the time. Neither did any of my friends at the party at the time, and all of us would have been quite seasoned pill-takers.

I obviously have a different opinion on drug-taking than other people. Personally I think the only solution is to legalise all drugs (for a light read but a very good point, read Ben Elton's 'High Society'). Obviously that's not gonna fly with large sections of society right now. However, I think honest education of dangers, not scaremongering bullsh*t, about what you should and shouldn't do when taking drugs, i.e. how much water to drink, whether you can or can't mix with other legal drugs such as alcohol etc, this will all result in fewer hospitalisations.

My final point, I know I said it already but really, I don't know if people accept it - people always have, across all cultures, used different types of drugs for recreation. The 'war on drugs', casting all drug users as addicts or wasters and criminals, has failed and will continue to fail to stop people from taking drugs. There needs to be another approach. This current case, I hope, will prompt some sensible non-hysterical debate on this subject.

I hope everyone recovers soon. Good luck to them. And be a friend, look out for your buddies at parties, whether they're on drugs or on booze.

FruitLover · 01-11-2009 11:59PM

Bandit12 wrote: »

Junkies tbh.

Geek tbh.

El Weirdo · 02-11-2009 12:10AM

CamillaRhodes wrote: »

When I was younger, for a year or two I used to take a fair amount of ecstasy at weekends. I had two bad experiences which (pretty much) ended my use of it.

One was when I took a couple of pills which were sold to my boyfriend as ecstasy and in fact had a very, very high LSD content (which I subsequently found out were known as 'snowballs') I had a bad, unexpected trip, as did all of us who took those pills that night. I also heard subsequently about a guy in Bray who gouged one of his eyes out when on a 'snowball' trip.

The second bad experience was when I'd taken a 'natural' e, i.e. one of these legal high things. Not much of a buzz off it particularly. But then later in the night I was given a real e, and that made it all kick off, again on a sorta acidy buzz. Was quite scary.

Apart from those two experiences above, however, I generally had a very, very good time on e. I found it to be a more positive drug, in terms of its impact on people, than alcohol - when it was good, and when we were educated about it.

My point: I was sorta-educated about e. I knew how many pills I could take in a night (up to 3 or maybe 4), I knew how to regulate my water intake, I knew the difference between a dancey pill and a skaggie pill, etc etc. But all of this 'education' was just picked up from mates, you never get told these things officially.

Where it all went wrong was (a) when the pills had something in them other than ecstasy. This is where legalising drugs allows the user to be sure that what they buy is what they intend to get. For as long as drugs are illegal, there is always the risk that you don't really know what you're taking (and make no mistake, people will always take drugs. Always have, always will), and (b) when I wasn't educated or aware of a bad consequence. It's since become public knowledge that mixing 'natural high' pills with real e can have a very negative effect. I simply didn't know that at the time. Neither did any of my friends at the party at the time, and all of us would have been quite seasoned pill-takers.

I obviously have a different opinion on drug-taking than other people. Personally I think the only solution is to legalise all drugs (for a light read but a very good point, read Ben Elton's 'High Society'). Obviously that's not gonna fly with large sections of society right now. However, I think honest education of dangers, not scaremongering bullsh*t, about what you should and shouldn't do when taking drugs, i.e. how much water to drink, whether you can or can't mix with other legal drugs such as alcohol etc, this will all result in fewer hospitalisations.

My final point, I know I said it already but really, I don't know if people accept it - people always have, across all cultures, used different types of drugs for recreation. The 'war on drugs', casting all drug users as addicts or wasters and criminals, has failed and will continue to fail to stop people from taking drugs. There needs to be another approach. This current case, I hope, will prompt some sensible non-hysterical debate on this subject.

I hope everyone recovers soon. Good luck to them. And be a friend, look out for your buddies at parties, whether they're on drugs or on booze.

Good post.

I remember them snowballs doing the rounds. It was actually found to be DOB and not LSD that was in them pills. Here's a warning that the Gardai issued at the time and also an article from the Sunday Business Post which also has a few other points that are relevant to the various threads about drugs from the past few days.

But I WILL NOT be reading anything by Ben Elton!:D

FruitLover wrote: »

Geek Troll tbh.

FYP.

Daroxtar · 02-11-2009 12:37AM

WeWillBeReborn wrote: »

Alcohol. Cigarettes. Ecstacy, etc. There are loads of ads stating the dangers with these. And if those dangers are exaggerated, and that exaggeration prevents someone from dying from them, I think it's worth it.

Food as well. If you eat too much, you become obese and may have a poorer quality of like. If ads promote the dangers of it and it stops people from eating too much, then good for them.

Every time you breath the oxygen in the air, a highly reactive and dangerous substance, reacts with the iron in your blood stream and Oxidises it. This causes huge damage and eventually leads to the destruction of the cells and in turn the breakdown of tissue and eventually death. So if you stop breathing you will prevent this. :rolleyes:

CamillaRhodes · 02-11-2009 12:38AM

El Weirdo wrote: »

I WILL NOT be reading anything by Ben Elton!:D

ONLY to back up my point about the need to legalise all drugs

EDIT: Great article in the SBP too. One quote stood out particularly, and was as true back then for DOB (didn't realise it was that rather than acid!) as it is for GHB+booze now.

"Lie or exaggerate about one substance and they're not going to believe you when you warn them off another. That's my concern now in relation to something genuinely life-threatening like DOB."

psilocybe · 02-11-2009 01:01AM

CamillaRhodes wrote: »

ONLY to back up my point about the need to legalise all drugs

EDIT: Great article in the SBP too. One quote stood out particularly, and was as true back then for DOB (didn't realise it was that rather than acid!) as it is for GHB+booze now.

"Lie or exaggerate about one substance and they're not going to believe you when you warn them off another. That's my concern now in relation to something genuinely life-threatening like DOB."

Off-topic I know but DOB is not generally life threatening, though it is certainly not something that should be passed off as ecstasy. The fact that it takes several hours to come up on coupled with it's powerful hallucinogenic effect and uncomfortable bodyload make it wholly unsuitable to be mass-marketed as it was with thise snowball pills.

There have been cases of people taking massive overdoses of DOB and surviving. I could dig up references but couldn't be bothered, am on my way to bed. If anyone is interested I'll do so tomorrow.

CamillaRhodes · 02-11-2009 01:28AM

psilocybe wrote: »

Off-topic I know but DOB is not generally life threatening, though it is certainly not something that should be passed off as ecstasy.

Actually you're dead right, and I don't necessarily think it's off topic - perhaps the term 'life-threatening' is still hyperbole. But it's pretty fair to say it "can quite f*** you up", as happened the poor fella with his gouged out eye.

During my experience, I was back at my boyfriend's place, as we were both 'educated' enough to know that something was wrong with the 'pills', whatever they were, and we got the hell out of the club and went home. During the trip, though, we were both talking about how it was good that we were there to support each other, as if we were on our own we could be quite freaked out, and how you might even kill yourself. We then talked in depth about how you could kill yourself by jumping from the balcony. We even went and had a look. Now, I'm not suggesting either one of us was about to jump from the balcony, but the thought was there. If I'd been alone, I don't know where my mind might have wandered towards.

Similarly, as someone above who has used GHB says (i've never used it so can't say), but it is possible to mix booze and GHB and be fine. But, as is demonstrated by this case, it is also possible for it to f*** you up quite extremely, which is why it's important (a) to know what drugs you are taking, and what they can or can't be mixed with, and (b) to look out for your friends when you're out at parties, and afterwards.

I don't believe in scare-mongering about drugs. Terms like 'life-threatening' are bandied about far too readily. But I do wish to hell that I had known what the snowballs were before taking them (and I wouldn't have done so if I'd known) and not to have mixed 'natural' with real e.

Drug users are not all idiots, but if you don't have a reliable source for your information (as, indeed, for your drugs) you run the risk of ignorance leading to a health risk.

Scare-mongering and criminalisation will not prevent dreadful things happening like these poor feckers ending up in hospital. Education, to start with at least, can help.

huddlejonny · 02-11-2009 03:35AM

Wertz wrote: »

That's true enough but then again over my decade or so of ecstasy usage, I always drank with them, usually a greater amount than I'd have drank if I was just drinking...whilst it lead to some monstrous and prolonged hangovers I managed to stay out of A&E.
The problem here is that there is no viable safety information out there regarding illegal substances...you have blanket warnings about cocaine interactions, ecstasy interactions, various 'scrip meds and their effects with alcohol...but when it comes to little known stuff like GHB, there is nothing (except it being lumped in with various other substances) until cases like this come along.

I also neglected to mention that GHB is the date rape drug that Rohypnol takes much of the flack for...I've seen various threads on here recently playing down the whole date rape phenomenon as being a combination of female exaggeration, over indulgence in drink and urban myth...the use of GHB is, as a colourless, odourless, liquid substance that is very hard to screen for (due to the fact that it occurs naturaly in the body) nearly impossible to rule out in so many reported cases.

Still interested in people who have taken this stuff or been offered and anyone who may think they may have been spiked with it...just to gauge how common it is these days.

i spiked mahself once, twas fun fun til the syringe hit mah vein, first ones for free dont ya know , daddy...... evil drug, never ever ever....

huddlejonny · 02-11-2009 03:40AM

CamillaRhodes wrote: »

Actually you're dead right, and I don't necessarily think it's off topic - perhaps the term 'life-threatening' is still hyperbole. But it's pretty fair to say it "can quite f*** you up", as happened the poor fella with his gouged out eye.

During my experience, I was back at my boyfriend's place, as we were both 'educated' enough to know that something was wrong with the 'pills', whatever they were, and we got the hell out of the club and went home. During the trip, though, we were both talking about how it was good that we were there to support each other, as if we were on our own we could be quite freaked out, and how you might even kill yourself. We then talked in depth about how you could kill yourself by jumping from the balcony. We even went and had a look. Now, I'm not suggesting either one of us was about to jump from the balcony, but the thought was there. If I'd been alone, I don't know where my mind might have wandered towards.

Similarly, as someone above who has used GHB says (i've never used it so can't say), but it is possible to mix booze and GHB and be fine. But, as is demonstrated by this case, it is also possible for it to f*** you up quite extremely, which is why it's important (a) to know what drugs you are taking, and what they can or can't be mixed with, and (b) to look out for your friends when you're out at parties, and afterwards.

I don't believe in scare-mongering about drugs. Terms like 'life-threatening' are bandied about far too readily. But I do wish to hell that I had known what the snowballs were before taking them (and I wouldn't have done so if I'd known) and not to have mixed 'natural' with real e.

Drug users are not all idiots, but if you don't have a reliable source for your information (as, indeed, for your drugs) you run the risk of ignorance leading to a health risk.

Scare-mongering and criminalisation will not prevent dreadful things happening like these poor feckers ending up in hospital. Education, to start with at least, can help.

valid point about drugs and excess n stuff BUT:

my ol friend William Hicks made a valid point, IF you was so intent on jumping off a roof building to see if you /ye could fly, why not try from the ground?? same bloody thing, we all tried aceed, great to start with, at this age though, no thanks... ever...

FruitLover · 05-11-2009 11:50PM

CamillaRhodes wrote: »

as happened the poor fella with his gouged out eye.

Has anyone any proof that that actually happened? It seems to be one of those stories that go around about someone's friend's cousin's mother's dog's uncle etc etc.

Thomas_S_Hunterson · 06-11-2009 12:02AM

In the interest of harm reduction I'll say the following:

GHB is completely safe (much less toxic than alcohol) if used correctly (it is prescribed for certain types of narcolepsy as sodium oxybate, trade name Xyrem), however the chatter about doses on here should be ignored.

The dose curve of (pure) GHB is extremely steep. When dealing with pure stuff, 2-2.5 mils would be an average dose, however going above this by even a small amount, re-dosing too fast or even skulling a pint and one could end up falling asleep standing up.

People on here have been mentioning doses as high as 10mls. I presume this has been heavily diluted as that sort of dose of pure GHB would leave you in a coma.

/edit2: I forgot to mention it is quite addictive.

/edit: I can't believe the people on here condoning the misinformation.

El Weirdo · 06-11-2009 12:03AM

FruitLover wrote: »

Has anyone any proof that that actually happened? It seems to be one of those stories that go around about someone's friend's cousin's mother's dog's uncle etc etc.

It was always going to grab the headlines - a 19-year-old Greystones man pulling his eye out with a pair of pliers after taking three ecstasy pills at a house party. He was about to do the same to his other eye when gardai arrived on the scene and forcibly restrained him.

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2003/11/16/story976981228.asp

madma · 06-11-2009 12:59AM

FruitLover wrote: »

Has anyone any proof that that actually happened? It seems to be one of those stories that go around about someone's friend's cousin's mother's dog's uncle etc etc.

yes did happen its not myth, when i was in college there was a guy in my class from the area....... and what i heard it wasnt 3 he took more like 15!!

slipss · 06-11-2009 01:34AM

Dear god, I don't know why I keep reading these threads. Both sides of the debate that make valid well considered arguments just get drowned out by the freaks that say things like, "cannabis is in no way addictive" or "ecstacy will give you schizophrenia".

gollem_1975 · 06-11-2009 01:38AM

can we assume that all these people are now out of hospital ?

GHB blamed in party hospitalisations...

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