GHB blamed in party hospitalisations...

Wertz · 01-11-2009 02:06PM #1

On the radio news this morning several reports about a number (ranging 4-11) of partygoers in NW Dublin being taken to hospital suffering from overdose/poisoning/interaction from a substance they insist on referring to as "liquid ecstasy"
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1101/dublin.html

Just like to clear up for some of our journalistic readers and such that this substance is in fact GHB:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-Hydroxybutyric_acid

and bears no relation either chemically or in any other way to what is commonly known as ecstasy or MDMA to give it it's proper acronym.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA

What's prompted me to post this was a small piece I caught on Marian Finnucane's show just after the midday news, where she and another panel member went on a little moralistic hand wringing excercise about this "liquid ecstasy" and then tried to draw some correlation between the story and sacking or Prof Nutt in the UK earlier this week as regarding his comments on MDMA.
That is just wrong on so many levels that I don't know where to begin. For a start as pointed out, they are two completely different substances. For another, GHB is currently scheduled class C in the UK (not sure about Ireland), whereas MDMA is still class A.
Last point, Nutt was ousted for his comments regarding cannabis classification and it's associated risks. Ms Finnucane's little outburst shows her and her reserchers up for the overpaid tongue waggers they really are...if these people are to be tasked with informing and commenting to the general public on news items they could at least get their facts straight before they put them to air.

I'm not sure what I expect from this post. I'm sure most of you could give two damns what these people have taken, that it's all illgeal drugs and that they expect what they get.
Thing is that GHB was perfectly legal in the UK up until 2003, MDMA has been at the top of the classifcation charts since the late 80's.
I've never taken the stuff (GHB): I've always been a little shy about drinking something made from various under-the-sink chemicals myself, but I've read a lot about it...the one thing that was always made clear about it was it's high interaction level with alcohol and how much more likely it is to be fatal when used in combination (99% likely to be a contributing factor in this case)
A good piece on it here for those that care to read it.
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/ghb/legal.html

So all that aside, anyone taken it out there? Any thoughts regarding it? Did you drink alcohol whilst using it?

FunkZ · 01-11-2009 02:13PM

These hangovers disables AH users from being enabled to read threads longer than a willy...

My name is URL · 01-11-2009 02:13PM

Just heard this on the radio myself.. why do people drink whilst taking other stuff, it's stupid

I mean people don't drink while on prescription drugs because it can be dangerous, so why are recreational drugs any different?

People need to educate themselves better imo, just because illegal drugs don't have a warning label doesn't mean that dangers don't exist

Four-Percent · 01-11-2009 02:19PM

Am I right in thinking GHB is used in supplements?

phantom_lord · 01-11-2009 02:25PM

mdma is class a? lol that drug classification system is all over the place.

SoupyNorman · 01-11-2009 02:27PM

Who was having hair straightening parties at 5am??

orourkeda · 01-11-2009 02:49PM

Give us an EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

mike65 · 01-11-2009 03:07PM

More Darwinians...

Wertz · 01-11-2009 03:18PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Just heard this on the radio myself.. why do people drink whilst taking other stuff, it's stupid

I mean people don't drink while on prescription drugs because it can be dangerous, so why are recreational drugs any different?

People need to educate themselves better imo, just because illegal drugs don't have a warning label doesn't mean that dangers don't exist

That's true enough but then again over my decade or so of ecstasy usage, I always drank with them, usually a greater amount than I'd have drank if I was just drinking...whilst it lead to some monstrous and prolonged hangovers I managed to stay out of A&E.
The problem here is that there is no viable safety information out there regarding illegal substances...you have blanket warnings about cocaine interactions, ecstasy interactions, various 'scrip meds and their effects with alcohol...but when it comes to little known stuff like GHB, there is nothing (except it being lumped in with various other substances) until cases like this come along.

I also neglected to mention that GHB is the date rape drug that Rohypnol takes much of the flack for...I've seen various threads on here recently playing down the whole date rape phenomenon as being a combination of female exaggeration, over indulgence in drink and urban myth...the use of GHB is, as a colourless, odourless, liquid substance that is very hard to screen for (due to the fact that it occurs naturaly in the body) nearly impossible to rule out in so many reported cases.

Still interested in people who have taken this stuff or been offered and anyone who may think they may have been spiked with it...just to gauge how common it is these days.

jumpguy · 01-11-2009 07:15PM

Illegal drugs are illegal. No doubt, these drugs were illegally made with no quality-control or rigourus testing, obviously. You're taking you're own life into your hands when you take illegal drugs, not to mention funding criminal activity. That's it, they took them, I'm sure they know the risks.

Wertz · 01-11-2009 07:38PM

From the other thread:

Its an ecstasy tablet but in liquid form.

It really isn't. The two substances don't even produce the same effects, are in completely separate legal classes and one has been illegal for a much longer period, altough it enjoys a much higher usage figure.

Posting stuff like this that impressionable people might read leads to confusion over the effects of substances and may lead to further harm.

Jumpguy: no-one is questioning it's legality. Nor that of ecstasy.

Piste · 01-11-2009 07:40PM

They really should explain that GHB isn't the same as MDMA, It's just sloppy journalism otherwise and adds to the fear and scaremongering that exists surrounding drugs.

Wertz · 01-11-2009 07:47PM

Piste wrote: »

They really should explain that GHB isn't the same as MDMA, It's just sloppy journalism otherwise and adds to the fear and scaremongering that exists surrounding drugs.

Unfortunately that suits everyone who matters down to the ground...journalists included. It's partly why I posted the thread to begin with, to try and illustrate the difference...

d0gb0y · 01-11-2009 07:48PM

I've used GHB a lot and its ridiculous that it can be referred to as liquid ecstacy as its effects are more like alcohol than anything else.
It just looks like another "drugs are bad m'kay" story

dny123456 · 01-11-2009 07:50PM

Heard the same program on the radio this morning and thought the same. Was going to text in... then thought, why bother and went to sleep.

WeWillBeReborn · 01-11-2009 07:50PM

Piste wrote: »

They really should explain that GHB isn't the same as MDMA, It's just sloppy journalism otherwise and adds to the fear and scaremongering that exists surrounding drugs.

Right, because drugs never get any good press, for some reason :rolleyes:

Daroxtar · 01-11-2009 07:52PM

Most of Marian Finucane listeners dont know their arse from their elbow and are only concerned about Complan and Werthers Originals, not ghb or mdma. Who cares what they think, they'll all be dead in a few years and then we'll be in control:)

dny123456 · 01-11-2009 07:59PM

Daroxtar wrote: »

Most of Marian Finucane listeners dont know their arse from their elbow and are only concerned about Complan and Werthers Originals, not ghb or mdma. Who cares what they think, they'll all be dead in a few years and then we'll be in control:)

Oih, I listen to her every weekend... i dont plan to be dead for at least another 40 years.

01-11-2009 08:00PM

I just heard the story on the news and the gardai are claiming that the 'liquid ectasy' may have been put into people's drinks last night without their knowledge. They strongly urged anyone who knows of anyone at a party in blanchardstown last night, to check on them to make sure they're ok.

Are they being OTT or is this stuff really dangerous?

Wertz · 01-11-2009 08:02PM

dny123456 wrote: »

Heard the same program on the radio this morning and thought the same. Was going to text in... then thought, why bother and went to sleep.

lol I was in the middle of texting when my phone battery died...in retrospect it'd have been a waste of time and credit anyhow, because it wouldn't have made it past the first researcher.

As for what the listeners think? Well for a start it's the highest listenership for it's slot....and the average demographic are also the people who turn out to vote the most...if the show is letting such inaccuracies make it to the airwaves, what else are they getting wrong?

*sips ovaltine*

WeWillBeReborn · 01-11-2009 08:02PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I just heard the story on the news and the gardai are claiming that the 'liquid ectasy' may have been put into people's drinks last night without their knowledge. They strongly urged anyone who knows of anyone at a party in blanchardstown last night, to check on them to make sure they're ok.

Are they being OTT or is this stuff really dangerous?

There are people in hospital because of it, sounds dangerous to me

d0gb0y · 01-11-2009 08:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I just heard the story on the news and the gardai are claiming that the 'liquid ectasy' may have been put into people's drinks last night without their knowledge. They strongly urged anyone who knows of anyone at a party in blanchardstown last night, to check on them to make sure they're ok.

Are they being OTT or is this stuff really dangerous?

I don't think GHB can be used to spike peoples drinks as its a salt and you need a lot 4+ grams iirc
It makes a mess of any fizzy drink and would be very noticable in any other drink
Its the first i've heard of it causing any problems and imo i'm willing to bet its more to do with the amount of alcohol that the people consumed, than the substance itself unless it was a dodgy batch.

01-11-2009 08:05PM

WeWillBeReborn wrote: »

There are people in hospital because of it, sounds dangerous to me

Yeh I know, but they are "stable" which could mean anything!

I just wonder if they are worried people may die from it if they don't get medical attention? what are the serious effects of this drug?

I had vaguely heard of liquid ecstasy before today but would have thought it was just that...a liquid form of ecstasy.

edit: and just to add, Hospitals are packed full of people every weekend suffering the effects of alcohol but it wouldn't be considered dangerous generally.

WeWillBeReborn · 01-11-2009 08:08PM

Well if they were spiked as the story you said was true, it'd be a pretty serious crime, I'm sure they're doing it so

1) They make sure everyone that it affected is okay
2) To make sure the bas****s that did it are caught

Wertz · 01-11-2009 08:09PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Are they being OTT or is this stuff really dangerous?

Read my 3rd link in the opening post...this stuff has quite a reputation as a date rape tool, including a very famour case in the US. When mixed with alcohol the effects are almost always dangerous and highly unpredicatble and to medical staff upon presentation can be very hard to identify.

I don't think it's scaremongering on behalf of AGS...someone somewhere could be lieing in their bed comatosed or worse...if the warning prevents a death then it's well worth it...I just wish they'd make the distinction so as not to tar MDMA with the same brush (althouh like I said that would suit most people)...

d0gb0y · 01-11-2009 08:10PM

jumpguy wrote: »

Illegal drugs are illegal. No doubt, these drugs were illegally made with no quality-control or rigourus testing, obviously. You're taking you're own life into your hands when you take illegal drugs, not to mention funding criminal activity. That's it, they took them, I'm sure they know the risks.

Not 100% sure but last time I checked GHB was not illegal in Ireland or the UK
There was a drive to crimilize it using the spike drink/date rape bull**** but I don't think it was enacted
Maybe someone can confirm whether it is illegal or not

Acoustic · 01-11-2009 08:12PM

deserve what they get

play with drugs ur gonna get hurt

01-11-2009 08:13PM

WeWillBeReborn wrote: »

Well if they were spiked as the story you said was true, it'd be a pretty serious crime, I'm sure they're doing it so

1) They make sure everyone that it affected is okay
2) To make sure the bas****s that did it are caught

Why on earth would you spike someones drink? seriously? what kind of kick would you get out of spiking everyone's drink? If it's true i really hope they get what they deserve. However, if what d0gb0y said is true (and I have no reason to believe it isn't) it's more likely that the people in hospital, when being questioned by gardai, claimed they knew nothing about it so as not to face criminal charges?

madma · 01-11-2009 08:14PM

yep its a joke there saying mdma..mdma exstacy is extinct in this country!

01-11-2009 08:15PM

Wertz wrote: »

I don't think it's scaremongering on behalf of AGS...someone somewhere could be lieing in their bed comatosed or worse...if the warning prevents a death then it's well worth it...I just wish they'd make the distinction so as not to tar MDMA with the same brush (althouh like I said that would suit most people)...

That's seriously worrying.

Wertz · 01-11-2009 08:17PM

d0gb0y wrote: »

Not 100% sure but last time I checked GHB was not illegal in Ireland or the UK
There was a drive to crimilize it using the spike drink/date rape bull**** but I don't think it was enacted
Maybe someone can confirm whether it is illegal or not

Class C in UK so I presume here as well. US has it in two different schedules depending on the sub -type.

As for your point about the saltiness, apparently using different bases for the substance can reduce the salty taste.

GHB blamed in party hospitalisations...

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