Overweight Should Be Protected

Bottle_of_Smoke · 20-10-2009 11:03AM #1

Attacking someone for being fat should be a hate crime, campaigners say.
They want so-called "fat-ism" to be made illegal on the same grounds as race, age and religious discrimination.
A demonstration was held outside the offices of the mayor of London asking him to lead the way in making sure employers are not prejudiced.
Protesters want the UK to follow San Francisco, where a law bans "fat-ism" in housing and employment and stops doctors pressing patients to slim down.
Sondra Solway, a San Francisco lawyer, said: "The San Francisco ordinance says you may want to mention weight to the patient but if the patient says they do not want to talk about that then you are asked to respect those wishes."
Size acceptance
In the UK, size is not a protected characteristic under discrimination legislation................

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8314125.stm

Seems a bit mad to me. With heart disease/diabetes type2 on the rise I don't think we should have being fat as a thing to be proud of.

beegirl · 20-10-2009 11:33AM

Fat-ism just sounds stupid, shouldn't it be size-ism or something?!?!

RacoonQueen · 20-10-2009 11:37AM

The San Francisco ordinance says you may want to mention weight to the patient but if the patient says they do not want to talk about that then you are asked to respect those wishes.

So they should just let their patients slowly kill themselves?

Roper · 20-10-2009 11:38AM

If we aren't allowed to call people fat, does that mean we're not allowed to call people black, white or asian? It's a statement of fact .

Captain Furball · 20-10-2009 11:39AM

brianthebard · 20-10-2009 11:45AM

Hope those san francisco doctors are allowed refuse to treat a patient if they won't address their weight.

Oryx · 20-10-2009 11:52AM

People should not be discriminated against because of what they look like. Skinny people, for example, should not be looked down on because they are thin. This does happen to overweight people all the time.

The contradiction comes in because being overweight is unhealthy in a way that other characteristics that cause discrimination are not. Being overweight should not be held up as a valid lifestyle choice. The problem is how to promote the message that obesity is harmful without also sending the message that fat people are in some way flawed.

Bodysmart · 20-10-2009 12:01PM

Roper wrote: »

It's a statement of fact .

Sorry Roper. You're not allowed to calls them "facts" anymore in case someone disagrees and it hurts their feelings. Instead, it's now to be referred to as a "statement of opinion"

Roper · 20-10-2009 12:10PM

Bodysmart wrote: »

Sorry Roper. You're not allowed to calls them "facts" anymore in case someone disagrees and it hurts their feelings. Instead, it's now to be referred to as a "statement of opinion"

That's deadly, that basically gives me license to say what I want. "In my opinion, people who watch the X Factor should be stuffed in a room full of ravenous rats" and such.

d'Oracle · 20-10-2009 12:32PM

I cringe at the idea that a doctor would be bound to not point out a health problem to a patient with a health problem.

Its cringing cringeworthy.

The Davestator · 20-10-2009 01:01PM

This kind of stuff really annoys me, if people are fat, then they are fat and they should not be protected by law from being told by someone that they are fat.
Obestiy is going to cost the health services in the western world more and more money over the coming decades so this movement is going to make fat people think they are normal - thay are not.

Slightly off topic but is it any wonder kids are so fat with most of the ones I see hitting the spar for breakfast rolls and curry chip rolls for lunch?:eek:

ash23 · 21-10-2009 10:51AM

Who decides what "fat" is.
I would have no issue with a doctor saying to me "ash, you're overweight and you could do with watching your diet". I think the word "fat" is offensive as it's a variable and not fact per se.

Some models who are within the normal BMI and weight range are deemed too fat by designers.

I do think doctors should mention a persons weight in the same way they would recommend they stop smoking.
Should they call them fat? No.

Magic Eight Ball · 21-10-2009 11:01AM

Roper wrote: »

That's deadly, that basically gives me license to say what I want. "In my opinion, people who watch the X Factor should be stuffed in a room full of ravenous rats" and such.

Careful now, with that attitude you'll have the thought police on to ya.

Zamboni · 21-10-2009 11:10AM

ash23 wrote: »

I think the word "fat" is offensive as it's a variable and not fact per se.

So what if it's offensive.
1 billion starving in the world.
I'd say those poor bastards find it offensive that food is being wasted on people backsides.

ash23 · 21-10-2009 11:14AM

Zamboni wrote: »

So what if it's offensive.
1 billion starving in the world.
I'd say those poor bastards find it offensive that food is being wasted on people backsides.

Well, for those who have never suffered with a weight problem it's easy to make remarks like that.

There are plenty of offensive words or tags. I could list them but I don't like them. Just because you seem to have an issue with overweight people, doesn't mean it's right to call them an offensive name.
Try justifying names used by racists or homophobes. It's just more socially acceptable to abuse overweight people now.

Zamboni · 21-10-2009 11:27AM

ash23 wrote: »

Well, for those who have never suffered with a weight problem it's easy to make remarks like that.

There are plenty of offensive words or tags. I could list them but I don't like them. Just because you seem to have an issue with overweight people, doesn't mean it's right to call them an offensive name.

I have suffered with my weight. That is quite irrelevant.
Less than .05% of the population have actual medical conditions that result in overweight issues. (I will hunt down the reference later maybe after lunch...)
The point is if you try and protect the overweight (the non .05% bunch) you are normalising what is clearly an unhealthy state of being. That is not beneficial to anyone. Having excessive adipose tissue is a bad thing.

drkpower · 21-10-2009 11:36AM

Oryx wrote: »

The contradiction comes in because being overweight is unhealthy in a way that other characteristics that cause discrimination are not. Being overweight should not be held up as a valid lifestyle choice. The problem is how to promote the message that obesity is harmful without also sending the message that fat people are in some way flawed.

But isnt this the message that we should be sending out? Or at least not trying to paint a message that being overweight is akin to one's race and is immune to criticism.

Being overweight is a health issue both for the individual and society and, aside from a few with medical issues, it is entirely matter of lifestyle choice. Sure, some people put on and lose weight more easily, but pretty much everyone, given relatively simple changes to diet and exercise, can lose significant amounts of weight.

So its not something, in my view, that should be legislatively ring-fenced from attack. That is not to say I want overweight people to be abused but I dont want them to be appeased and molly-coddled either. And Im afraid, being overweight is a flaw in most cases. We all have flaws and its hardly a fundamental one but lets not pretend that it isnt. That wont help anyone.

ash23 · 21-10-2009 11:43AM

Zamboni wrote: »

Less than .05% of the population have actual medical conditions that result in overweight issues. (I will hunt down the reference later maybe after lunch...)
The point is if you try and protect the overweight (the non .05% bunch) you are normalising what is clearly an unhealthy state of being. That is not beneficial to anyone. Having excessive adipose tissue is a bad thing.

Does that .05% include those suffering from phychological issues?

Because they are as relevant as those with physical.

I suffered with depression and an adverse reaction to a contraceptive culminating in weight gain of over 5 stone.
It took me YEARS to lose that and only 5 months to gain it.

I was slightly overweight before gaining it but nothing compared to what I became.
I am still on the trek and it is a constant battle not to fall back into bad habits.

I have had people shout at me in the street and call me names. It's extremely hurtful and no, it doesn't help, at all in any shape or form. It simply caused me to become more reclusive and more paranoid and less inclined to go out for a walk as I was ashamed.

People can be addicted to food. Yes, a doctor should recommend that a person lose weight as I said in my first post. But no, they shouldn't call them fat. Use the technical terms.

Procasinator · 21-10-2009 11:47AM

drkpower wrote: »

But isnt this the message that we should be sending out? Or at least not trying to paint a message that being overweight is akin to one's race and is immune to criticism.

Being overweight is a health issue both for the individual and society and, aside from a few with medical issues, it is entirely matter of lifestyle choice. Sure, some people put on and lose weight more easily, but pretty much everyone, given relatively simple changes to diet and exercise, can lose significant amounts of weight.

So its not something, in my view, that should be legislatively ring-fenced from attack. That is not to say I want overweight people to be abused but I dont want them to be appeased and molly-coddled either. And Im afraid, being overweight is a flaw in most cases. We all have flaws and its hardly a fundamental one but lets not pretend that it isnt. That wont help anyone.

I agree, much like excessive drinking, gambling, smoking, liking that song "I kissed a girl", etc is seen as a flaw. Do we shout abuse at this people? No. But we don't pretend that it's not a flaw.

drkpower · 21-10-2009 11:54AM

ash23 wrote: »

I am still on the trek and it is a constant battle not to fall back into bad habits.

I am not picking on you here ash, just wanted to point to this particular line (and attitude, perhaps).

This is part of the problem. Aside from those with health (including psychiatric) issues, describing losing weight as a "battle", as if one is suffering from cancer, is entirly inappropriate. Sure, its bloody difficult and a pain in the ass half the time, but no worse than having to go to work every morning or any of the opther things we dont like having to do.

We dont say that we are waging a constant battle with getting up in the morning to go to work, do we? Of course not, because that would be ridiculous.

It is not a battle to lose weight. Lets not overplay it and lets definitely not use the language of real hardship.

ash23 · 21-10-2009 11:59AM

drkpower wrote: »

I am not picking on you here ash, just wanted to point to this particular line (and attitude, perhaps).

This is part of the problem. Aside from those with health (including psychiatric) issues, describing losing weight as a "battle", as if one is suffering from cancer, is entirly inappropriate. Sure, its bloody difficult and a pain in the ass half the time, but no worse than having to go to work every morning or any of the opther things we dont like having to do.

We dont say that we are waging a constant battle with getting up in the morning to go to work, do we? Of course not, because that would be ridiculous.

It is not a battle to lose weight. Lets not overplay it and lets definitely not use the language of real hardship.

Have you lost 6 stone recently? It is a battle. Because I have an unhealthy relationship with food. When I am lonely, bored, stressed out, unhappy, happy etc I want food. And not lettuce, food that will make me feel full. Would you tell someone who was giving up smoking that it wasn't hard, that it wasn't a battle to have the willpower to stay off them when others are smoking around them?

You post just goes to show you have absolutely no idea how difficult it is to lose a vast amount of weight when food is your crutch.
Also, food is everywhere. No matter where i go it's there. And I always want it. But I do have to make very concious decisions to make healthy choices.
And I do have to restrain myself.

Addictive nature runs in my family.
Myself and 2 of my sisters are overweight and have food issues. The other two are chain smokers. My dad and brother are alcoholics.
But they have a proper addiction. One that is recognised and understood. I'm just fat apparantly.

Procasinator · 21-10-2009 12:04PM

ash23 wrote: »

But no, they shouldn't call them fat. Use the technical terms.

I fully agree. They should stress the importance of loosing weight. Even be pushy if needed. But remain professional.

It fine to say some one has excess fat, are considered obese, need to loose weight, etc.

But scolding them by saying "You are fat" is a bit much, and sounds too much like a school yard taunt.

Zamboni · 21-10-2009 12:04PM

Ah, one persons psychological issue is anothers self restraint.

I was fairly obese at one stage.
Did I have mental issues? Nope. I was just a hungry fat bloke.

thorbarry · 21-10-2009 12:07PM

ash23 wrote: »

Addictive nature runs in my family.
Myself and 2 of my sisters are overweight and have food issues. The other two are chain smokers. My dad and brother are alcoholics.
But they have a proper addiction. One that is recognised and understood. I'm just fat apparantly.

You want to loose the weight tho. I think people are complaining about "fat" people that dont want to loose the weight, and give out about the fact that their doctor is telling them to loose it

ragg · 21-10-2009 12:07PM

ash23 wrote: »

Well, for those who have never suffered with a weight problem it's easy to make remarks like that.

I was fat, being called fat is upsetting, but not in the same way as being called a racist name etc.. Its upsetting because you know its in your hands to do something about it.
99% of Fat people are fat because they choose to be - they have the tools they need to make a difference, so its a world away from abuse over some ones sexuality, race etc..

ash23 · 21-10-2009 12:11PM

Zamboni wrote: »

Ah, one persons psychological issue is anothers self restraint.

I was fairly obese at one stage.
Did I have mental issues? Nope. I was just a hungry fat bloke.

I never smoked. Don't drink much. Never did drugs either. I don't gamble.

But I don't applaud myself and think I'm great to have had such restraint. I just thank my lucky stars that I never got addicted to anything like that.

Thing is you can do a lot of the above and get sympathy and understanding. Fat people, not so much of the sympathy. Sure it's their own fault. Just stop eating. (Ever said to a heroin addict "sure just stop taking the drugs, it's not that difficult"? :rolleyes: )

mloc · 21-10-2009 12:12PM

With rare and perhaps irrelevant exception, everyone is responsible for their own weight.

If you don't want to be called a smelly smoker, don't smoke as much.
If you don't want to be called a heavy drinker, don't drink as much.
If you don't want to be called fat, don't eat as much.

It really, really, really is that simple.

d'Oracle · 21-10-2009 12:17PM

mloc wrote: »

It really, really, really is that simple.

In fairness, its is not.

ash23 · 21-10-2009 12:18PM

thorbarry wrote: »

You want to loose the weight tho. I think people are complaining about "fat" people that dont want to loose the weight, and give out about the fact that their doctor is telling them to loose it

Took me 5 years of misery to do it though. I always wanted to be slim. I just didn't want to give up food. You can't go cold turkey on food either (excuse the pun). You HAVE to eat.

And while initially the theme was about the above, I think everyone knows that to beat an addiction you have to acknowledge it and want to change.
Food addiction is no different. So a doctor banging on about an obese person needing to lose weight when they refuse to acknowledge the problem, it's a waste of time.

Anyone listen to Gerry Ryan this morning. Talking about a guy whose lunch is 4 large fried cod, 6 bags of chips, 4 battered sausages, mushy peas and 2 pies. This guy is bedridden and has no quality of life.
How can anyone say this guy doesn't have a food addiction or that he should "just stop".

ash23 · 21-10-2009 12:21PM

mloc wrote: »

With rare and perhaps irrelevant exception, everyone is responsible for their own weight.

If you don't want to be called a smelly smoker, don't smoke as much.
If you don't want to be called a heavy drinker, don't drink as much.
If you don't want to be called fat, don't eat as much.

It really, really, really is that simple.

Thats silly really.

How many smokers give up smoking and start back with "just the one" and are back on them before they know it.

How many alcoholics give it up and have "just one drink" and are back on the sauce?

An addiction is all or nothing. Thats the point.
but food addiction is harder as you can't do "all or nothing". You have to eat.

Zamboni · 21-10-2009 12:23PM

ash23 wrote: »

I never smoked. Don't drink much. Never did drugs either. I don't gamble.

But I don't applaud myself and think I'm great to have had such restraint. I just thank my lucky stars that I never got addicted to anything like that.

Ok let's take your smoking/drinking/drug/gamble analogy into the context of the original post.

There is no discrimination legislation for any of those groups.

So, back on topic, why should the overweight be protected???

Fwiw-I don't think anyone has said doctors should call their patients fat.

Overweight Should Be Protected

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