bought a remapped car, what can I do about it?

Bodo · 13-10-2009 10:16AM #1

Hey,

it seems I bought 2nd hand car with remapped ecu... only seller "forgot" to mention this tiny/little detail.... Now (6months later) problems with the car are starting to appear... what can I do to get the bastard who sold me the car?
I would probably first need sbd to do diagnostics and provide written confirmation/testimony this is the case. Then what legal/other steps I can take? Any hints from anybody who experienced sth like that would be appreciated.

Rgds,
B.

GalwayKiefer · 13-10-2009 10:18AM

Did you buy privately or from a dealer?

Drummerboy08 · 13-10-2009 10:19AM

What exactly are the problems, and how would they be related to a remapped ECU?

Alanstrainor · 13-10-2009 10:31AM

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

What exactly are the problems, and how would they be related to a remapped ECU?

+1, a remap doesn't imediately mean that it will cause problems for the car.

Hogzy · 13-10-2009 10:31AM

Caveat emptor if it was bought privatly afaik

Bodo · 13-10-2009 10:48AM

Hey,

it was bought from the used car dealer.
caveat emptor - i dont think so, there are some insurance/road safety issues involved and how is a normal user to figure out his car has been tampered with?
problems - I am not going to clarify on this one (yet), as I said I first need to get a confirmation - can sbd advise a specialist who would be able to give a professional opinion about it?

Rgds,
B

Absurdum · 13-10-2009 10:50AM

if you didn't realise it was remapped until 6 months later, it's quite possible that the dealer had no idea it was either

you should calm down and stop making silly threats on the internet

BlackWizard · 13-10-2009 10:53AM

Quick check the tyres!! They might not be the same size as the originals. Sue the bas**rd dealer!! :pac:

People modify their cars. It's nothing new.

Hogzy · 13-10-2009 10:55AM

Bodo wrote: »

it was bought from the used car dealer.
caveat emptor - i dont think so, there are some insurance/road safety issues

Hence why i said if it was bought privatly!

Bodo wrote: »

and how is a normal user to figure out his car has been tampered with?

An AA check or any diagnostics check would probably have shown it, did you get it inspected by a third party?

g5hn710m4xpdwy · 13-10-2009 10:56AM

You could inform the insurance company and just enjoy the extra power/benfeits?

killwill · 13-10-2009 10:58AM

What was it remapped for? Performance or economy? Both are very common and not major issues. I would be surprised if you had any case at all tbh.

EPM · 13-10-2009 11:02AM

You'll get a lot more useful advice is you give an idea of the problems you are having. People here may be able to help you identify if they could be as a direct result of a remap. But usually a remap, if done correctly, wont do any harm.

What type of car is it and how do you actually know it is remapped?

Vegeta · 13-10-2009 11:04AM

Hang on

Remapping a car is not that straight forward a process. It often involves switching out some hardware and either putting in a programmable unit or an off the shelf known component.

What kind of car do you have?

My girlfriend's dad is an indy mechanic and has a diagnostic tool and I have played around with it on a few cars. I have never seen any info on maps in there so not sure how much satisfaction you'd get running diagnostic software on it. Maybe main dealers would have more software/kit, could someone with more experience throw light on it.

There are lots of people who re-map cars for performance gains such as Track Day Performance (TDP) Couture Auto, Westward Engineering. They could all probably tell quite quickly.

Mr Benevolent · 13-10-2009 11:20AM

OP what car is it? More importantly, is it a turbo? And how do you know it's been remapped?

kdevitt · 13-10-2009 11:26AM

Vegeta wrote: »

Hang on

Remapping a car is not that straight forward a process.

Eh - its is that straightforward - a trained monkey could remap a car or fit a tuning box. Said monkey may require a manicure before attempting to chip a car though.

Unless the dealer was a main dealer for the brand of car purchased its unlikely they would have been able to find out, let alone know, it was remapped.

Gumbo · 13-10-2009 11:31AM

Vegeta wrote: »

Hang on

Remapping a car is not that straight forward a process. It often involves switching out some hardware and either putting in a programmable unit or an off the shelf known component.

What kind of car do you have?

My girlfriend's dad is an indy mechanic and has a diagnostic tool and I have played around with it on a few cars. I have never seen any info on maps in there so not sure how much satisfaction you'd get running diagnostic software on it. Maybe main dealers would have more software/kit, could someone with more experience throw light on it.

There are lots of people who re-map cars for performance gains such as Track Day Performance (TDP) Couture Auto, Westward Engineering. They could all probably tell quite quickly.

remapping a car through the obd port is as simple as plugging in the laptop and hitting enter!

garage diagnostic equipment cannot pick up on this either iirc
BMW cannot pick up on my remapped ecu.

Vegeta · 13-10-2009 11:33AM

kdevitt wrote: »

Eh - its is that straightforward - a trained monkey could remap a car or fit a tuning box. Said monkey may require a manicure before attempting to chip a car though.

EDIT: Apologies, I assumed the OP went for a full custom map, head is in race car mode. yeah if it was off the shelf map and a diagnostic port job then it is pretty straight forward

So removing the standard ECU, inserting a socket or soldering a programmable ECU to the car, hooking that new ECU up to a laptop, knowing how to work the mapping software, owning a dyno, knowing how to use the dyno to map the car compared to just doing a power run, knowing the theory involved in mapping so that you get a safe map and don't run it too lean or advance reatard the ignition timing to a dangerous area, that's straight forward is it?

If you have monkeys of this calibre for sale then send me a PM as I'd be interested in a few of em

Vegeta · 13-10-2009 11:39AM

kceire wrote: »

remapping a car through the obd port is as simple as plugging in the laptop and hitting enter!

Apologies I thought the OP was talking about a remap a kin to what a modified car may get.
Yours is obviously an off the shelf map, which is a much more straight forward than what I outlined above

Bodo · 13-10-2009 11:45AM

if you didn't realise it was remapped until 6 months later, it's quite possible that the dealer had no idea it was either you should calm down and stop making silly threats on the internet

and how would I be able to realize this? I am not a mechanic, and I bought the car, imagine this, just to drive and perhaps to enjoy it

I wasn't making any threats to anybody here or so I at least thought :eek: I am actually very surprised to see that many of you took it so personally

car is with the main dealer atm, mechanics there are slightly surprised to say the least, some of the additional problems seem to have started after software upgrade done as part of normal maintenance, I did some additional diagnostics and I see that my car has a lot more torque than it should have and also a few other bits are also well above the normal marks, so basically first I need sbd to confirm the suspicion I have. yeah, it's a car with turbo and as I said I am not 100% sure about the remap thing either, that's why I need an advice - for a dealer if it's a remap it does not seem to be easy to figure it out, either.

...but I am getting the idea that I am talking here mostly to a cartuners fanclub here (with some noble exceptions), so this might just be my last post in the thread

Henry Ford III · 13-10-2009 11:49AM

kceire wrote: »

....garage diagnostic equipment cannot pick up on this either iirc
BMW cannot pick up on my remapped ecu.

Why not? A remap is essentially a software upgrade changing some ecu settings/limits. It is easy to compare manufacturers settings against those to be found in any remapped ecu surely?

Darsad · 13-10-2009 11:49AM

Yeah your best option is to go vent on a solicitor ! if as you were asked you supplied some back up info people might have been a little more receptive to you !!

Stevie Dakota · 13-10-2009 11:53AM

Can you explain how a remap, after 6 months has made your car dangerous? Genuinely curious as I am considering a remap myself.

Darsad · 13-10-2009 11:56AM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Why not? A remap is essentially a software upgrade changing some ecu settings/limits. It is easy to compare manufacturers settings against those to be found in any remapped ecu surely?

A dealer may not be able to see if a remap has been performed but a distributor can . Most OE ECU maps have an identification code which can be down loaded as part of a ram down load ( a little above the average dealer ) or will be attached as part of a data file if logged and e mailed to a distributor . It is basically a sum calculation of the program and if parameters are changed this sum will be different !

Owen · 13-10-2009 11:59AM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Why not? A remap is essentially a software upgrade changing some ecu settings/limits. It is easy to compare manufacturers settings against those to be found in any remapped ecu surely?

Most manufacturers can't diagnose map issues, because what happens is the map is extracted from the ECU, altered, and the map is downloaded into the ECU, with the same filenames and chassis numbers as the original. So the manufacturers diagnostic software looks to see if the original map is there, sees the filename/chassis number, assumes all is okay, and that's that.

A friend of mine had the MTH franchise for Ireland, and they used to be certain when creating the new files that the checksum, etc was the same when downloading the new map to the car.

I would be very very very surprised if a remap caused an issues. If there was a mechanical weak point in the car, it would be weak with or without the map and would have eventually failed regardless.

smcgiff · 13-10-2009 12:05PM

Bodo wrote: »

...but I am getting the idea that I am talking here mostly to a cartuners fanclub here (with some noble exceptions), so this might just be my last post in the thread

Nope - You're dealing with people that are knowledgeable about and in love (There - I said it!

) with cars. Sorry if your assumptions weren't backed up. :rolleyes:

Darsad · 13-10-2009 12:08PM

I think you mean most distributors as all manufacturers can see where a file/program has been altered even if the check sum is unaltered.

Owen · 13-10-2009 12:11PM

Darsad wrote: »

I think you mean most distributors as all manufacturers can see where a file/program has been altered even if the check sum is unaltered.

Most manufacturers don't do mechanical work. They have service representatives which they send to Dealerships who will have a lot of mechanical experience, who will then discuss the important issues with the master technicians and both then come to their conclusions.

The only real way to diagnose for certain if a car has indeed been remapped is to stick it on a rolling road, or use (And I've seen it done), Dynolicious on the iPhone.

Bodo · 13-10-2009 12:21PM

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

Can you explain how a remap, after 6 months has made your car dangerous? Genuinely curious as I am considering a remap myself.

not the remap itself, rather the fact that the seller didn't inform me about it, meaning you expect the car to work the way manufacturer configured it, where in fact you should be perhaps expecting the unexpected...

more importantly if accident happens insurer will deny any claims if they found out about it, so basically you pay and get blamed for everything even if it wasn't your fault.

also when you buy a 2nd hand car like this, then you have to be aware that it was tuned because you will very likely have to :
- replace fuel injectors as they were working above conditions they were designed for, thus reducing their time of life
- replace the turbo as it died because it was working above the conditions specified by manufacturer
- replace the clutch as it was forced to transfer more torque than it was designed to

Darsad · 13-10-2009 12:22PM

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The only real way to diagnose for certain if a car has indeed been remapped is to stick it on a rolling road, or use (And I've seen it done), Dynolicious on the iPhone.

Im sorry but Dynolicious its basically just a G sensor reading with fancy graphics and is no more useful to diagnosing a cars performance than my kids toy steering wheel is for steering my car

Owen · 13-10-2009 12:25PM

Darsad wrote: »

Im sorry but Dynolicious its basically just a G sensor reading with fancy graphics and is no more useful to diagnosing a cars performance than my kids toy steering wheel is for steering my car

There's a youtube vid, where guys take Dynolicious, and compare it to a rolling road, and it's only a few bhp out. It's surprisingly accurate. And even if it were just a fancy G meter, surely a remapped car would pull a little more g than a car that wasn't? So it would work regardless.

smcgiff · 13-10-2009 12:33PM

Bodo wrote: »

also when you buy a 2nd hand car like this, then you have to be aware that it was tuned because you will very likely have to :
- replace fuel injectors as they were working above conditions they were designed for, thus reducing their time of life
- replace the turbo as it died because it was working above the conditions specified by manufacturer
- replace the clutch as it was forced to transfer more torque than it was designed to

Google's great isn't it...

Your original post was to do with your suspicion that a remap has caused you problems. Has this been ascertained?

And as been said above I would not expect a 2nd hand dealer to check a car to see if it has been remapped.

A proper remapped car should still be well within the boundaries of what a car is capable of putting up with. Case in point....

SAAB 93 2.0t and 1.8t - Same engine, same turbo, but the 2.0t is tuned for greater BHP. Everything else is the same.

bought a remapped car, what can I do about it?

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