bought a remapped car, what can I do about it?

Darsad

PaintDoctor wrote: »

There's a youtube vid, where guys take Dynolicious, and compare it to a rolling road, and it's only a few bhp out. It's surprisingly accurate. And even if it were just a fancy G meter, surely a remapped car would pull a little more g than a car that wasn't? So it would work regardless.

Ok just to explain neither a dyno or the i pod thingy can be used as difinitive indicators that an engine ECU has been tampered with ! a print out from either will not stand up in a court for the following reasons.
> The same car will measure differently on different Dynos
> The same car will measure differently on the same dyno on different days
> Dynos measure power at the wheels and manufacturers figures are at the flywheel therefore the calculation back to the flywheel is an estimate and as nobody could possible know the actual loss the running gear creates the % drop figure is an estimate also.
> There are many more such as heat soak atmospheric pressure and on .
Dynos are only useful to determine a power increase or modification benefit on a given day thats it no more. The only people who can categorically stand up in a court of law and state that an ECU was tampered with is the manufacturer.
Dynos are little more than toys for boys and are not used by manufacturers

Vegeta

Darsad wrote: »

Dynos are little more than toys for boys and are not used by manufacturers

Do they not qualify the engines with engine dynos no?

Graham_B18C

Bodo wrote: »

basically first I need sbd to confirm the suspicion I have

sbd...silent but deadly???

Absurdum

Bodo wrote: »

and how would I be able to realize this? I am not a mechanic, and I bought the car, imagine this, just to drive and perhaps to enjoy it I wasn't making any threats to anybody here or so I at least thought :eek: I am actually very surprised to see that many of you took it so personally

nobody accused you of making threats to anybody here but...

Bodo wrote: »

what can I do to get the bastard who sold me the car?

...sounds threatening to me.

Bodo wrote: »

...but I am getting the idea that I am talking here mostly to a cartuners fanclub here (with some noble exceptions), so this might just be my last post in the thread

and since you haven't bothered to tell us what the car actually is or what these problems are, and what the dealer has actually told you (assuming you went back) don't expect any specific advice.

Nonoperational

Wow it was hardly like the dealer sneaked a remap on there just to get at you. It's very simple to reprogramme the ECU with an original map again, all tuning companies have the original maps as do main dealers as far as I know. I would also be curious to know what the remap actually did to the car.

Matt Simis

Bodo wrote: »

also when you buy a 2nd hand car like this, then you have to be aware that it was tuned because you will very likely have to :
- replace fuel injectors as they were working above conditions they were designed for, thus reducing their time of life
- replace the turbo as it died because it was working above the conditions specified by manufacturer
- replace the clutch as it was forced to transfer more torque than it was designed to

"Very likely have to..." !? For the love of god please stop spouting about something you clearly have no idea about. You still havent provided any details or facts. I think you were under the impression Remaps are something the "bad" people do in Fast and Furious, not something as off the shelf and casual as it has become.

eddieham

sorry OP but from what you have posted so far, IMHO you should just pay for the repairs yourself.

You have had the car for over six months so I presume your warranty from the garage is now up.

You stated "bought a remapped car" and currently you have no proof of this.
You will require the cooperation of the manufacturer to prove this in court. Original source code and remap code will have to be presented or at least a suitably qualified professional will have to testify to this

Even then, if you can prove a remap, whats to stop the garage saying you had it done after purchasing the car from them.

The onus is on you to prove that on the date you purchased the car that it was remapped.
IMHO this is almost impossible to prove, all things considered.
Others here are far more knowledgeable than me on motor issues and I am open to correction on the above

ianobrien

Grahamo999 wrote: »

sbd...silent but deadly???

Im thinking of SBD in the UK. They are a company that "specialise in designing and manufacturing of engine components and management systems for the Vauxhall, Ford Duratec & Suzuki hayabusa engines for motorsport use."

Basically they get crazy power from Opel/Vauxhall C20XE, Ford Duratec and Hayabusa engines.

http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Main.htm

Nonoperational

Sounds pretty much spot on to me. I can see the OPs point maybe if the remap was excessive and it shot the clutch in a few months or something to that effect. Still almost impossible to get any satisfaction I owuld imagine. But as we don't know whats wrong its pointless going any further!

Blazer

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Why not? A remap is essentially a software upgrade changing some ecu settings/limits. It is easy to compare manufacturers settings against those to be found in any remapped ecu surely?

Try hitting Cntrl+Enter+Delete...there's nothing the magic reboot won't fix

If that doesn't work check to see if you can do a system restore

Darsad

Vegeta wrote: »

Do they not qualify the engines with engine dynos no?

Apologies I was of course talking about rolling road dynos ,

Mr.Diagnostic

Bodo wrote: »

car is with the main dealer atm, mechanics there are slightly surprised to say the least, some of the additional problems seem to have started after software upgrade done as part of normal maintenance,

I am guessing here, because the OP will not give details, but it is possible the dealer has flashed the ECU software and that has caused an issue which is now being blamed on a previous remap?

If it had a remap before then the flashing by the dealer has wiped any evidence of it.

I would think it very likely that if it was running ok and only has problems since the dealer flash then the flash is to blame. These type of problems are common enough.

I wonder if the OP has been suckered into a blame game by those who are actually responsible?

Owen

Darsad wrote: »

Apologies I was of course talking about rolling road dynos ,

Fair enough, but if you were trying to figure out if a car had been remapped, the differences between dynos wouldn't be that much out in order to establish whether a car for example a 320d had 115Bhp, or 150Bhp. Even if the dyno misread, and showed 140Bhp, you'd still know it was mapped - especially if you had access to a standard car to run against on the same dyno.

tossy

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Fair enough, but if you were trying to figure out if a car had been remapped, the differences between dynos wouldn't be that much out in order to establish whether a car for example a 320d had 115Bhp, or 150Bhp. Even if the dyno misread, and showed 140Bhp, you'd still know it was mapped - especially if you had access to a standard car to run against on the same dyno.

Yes but most Turbo diesels (at least every VAG diesel i've seen on a dyno) read higher as standard anyway,it wouldn't be beyond impossible for a 320d to putting out up to 130bhp from the factory,so where does that leave you bad remap or just running more than quoted from the factory.

Dealers/mechanics generally don't have the diagnostic equipment to read the parameters that need to be changed to remap a car - it is a totally different program.

It sounds like the OPs car could have been victim to a cowboy mapper,i'e he just turned up the fueling to the max (hence the injectors going) and he turned up boost to the max (hence the turbo going) the clutch could just be an unfortunate coincidence - hard ot say without knowing the mileage.

smcgiff

tossy wrote: »

It sounds like the OPs car could have been victim to a cowboy mapper,i'e he just turned up the fueling to the max (hence the injectors going) and he turned up boost to the max (hence the turbo going) the clutch could just be an unfortunate coincidence - hard ot say without knowing the mileage.

He didn't say the above faults occurred, just that he expects they will.

Matt Simis

Berkut wrote: »

Try hitting Cntrl+Enter+Delete...there's nothing the magic reboot won't fix

If that doesn't work check to see if you can do a system restore

Ctrl Enter Del... somethings wrong with your PC if that reboots it.

tossy

smcgiff wrote: »

He didn't say the above faults occurred, just that he expects they will.

My bad - the vagueness of the OP doesn't help the thread in fairness.

Darsad

We had long given up on helping the OP but were having a good debate regardless.

Vegeta

Darsad wrote: »

We had long given up on helping the OP but were having a good debate regardless.

Indeed

It has shown me just how difficult it is to say with certainty if some cars have been mapped or not.

jayotala

Do we know what car he has, details, problems????

jayotala

Bodo wrote: »

- replace fuel injectors as they were working above conditions they were designed for, thus reducing their time of life
- replace the turbo as it died because it was working above the conditions specified by manufacturer
- replace the clutch as it was forced to transfer more torque than it was designed to

Using bad fuel could result in injectors needing to be replaced.

Lack of servicing could result in turbo needing to be replaced.

Driver error can result in a clutch needing to be replaced. It is a wear and tear item after all. Thats like saying remapping would result in brake pads needing to be replaced.

I'd like to know vehicle details and problems with it. Also was it bought from a main dealer? Did it have service history? Is it commercial? Etc etc.

tossy

Thread giving me a headache.. 4 pages in and we don't know what OP is driving, why he thinks it is mapped and what issues the car is having.


And as for this..

tossy wrote: »

Yes but most Turbo diesels (at least every VAG diesel i've seen on a dyno) read higher as standard anyway,it wouldn't be beyond impossible for a 320d to putting out up to 130bhp from the factory,so where does that leave you bad remap or just running more than quoted from the factory.

If I'm reading that correctly, you're suggesting a 320d puts out less than 130bhp from factory?


Anyways, I think the biggest point to come from this thread is that it's hard to tell if a car is mapped. So don't worry about it because an insurance company is unlikely to find that your Passat is mapped in the event of a crash. A modified ecu will generally bring the engine to it's full capability. Cars come detuned for emissions etc. and parts like clutches wouldn't have any problem dealing with the fairly moderate gains.

tossy

Deleted User wrote: »

And as for this..



If I'm reading that correctly, you're suggesting a 320d puts out less than 130bhp from factory?

Sorry my bad,i wrote that arse ways,I forgot what BHP 320d's were

My point was that most turbo diesels seem to put out more BHP that the factory figures so a dyno run wouldn't be conclusive evidence that the car was remapped.

cormie

I've been considering re-mapping my 1.7 73 BHP Astra van. Apparantly it will get about 25 extra BHP about 50 extra torque and add an extra MPG too. The cost is €350. I've heard that this can lead to having to replace parts sooner than if I just left it but the guy I was talking to about it said as long as I drive it well and service it, it will be fine. He sounded like a genuine guy too and it seems from this thread that it may increase the wear slightly alright, but not enough to effect the life of the Astra. Would you folk go for it?

Gumbo

cormie wrote: »

I've been considering re-mapping my 1.7 73 BHP Astra van. Apparantly it will get about 25 extra BHP about 50 extra torque and add an extra MPG too. The cost is €350. I've heard that this can lead to having to replace parts sooner than if I just left it but the guy I was talking to about it said as long as I drive it well and service it, it will be fine. He sounded like a genuine guy too and it seems from this thread that it may increase the wear slightly alright, but not enough to effect the life of the Astra. Would you folk go for it?

if you get it remapped by a reputabile (sp) company then the maps will be within manufacturers guidelines for the given car.

when i got mine done at www.autoremap.ie we were told that all his maps are within TUV guidelines.....some german mark of quality iirc

cormie

That's the chap I rang alright, he's local to me, so does that basically mean that the parts of the car are able to handle the extra power it will be put to yeah? Would this mean NO extra wear and tear or there would still be a bit extra but nothing to excessive I wonder?

Gumbo

cormie wrote: »

That's the chap I rang alright, he's local to me, so does that basically mean that the parts of the car are able to handle the extra power it will be put to yeah? Would this mean NO extra wear and tear or there would still be a bit extra but nothing to excessive I wonder?

imo yes, but i still think a remap shortens the life of a clutch but only if you rag it all day long! driving normal and using the power in normal situations shouldnt shorten the lifr of anything.

theres guys over on bmw-driver that have remaps 2 years without any problems.

cormie

2 years doesn't sound long.. Is that supposed to be good for a remapped car? :eek::o

The driving I'll be doing will be average speed of 120kmph with the extra torque used for overtaking at speeds of 95kmph or so covering about 20,000 miles a year.

I wont be doing skids out of petrol stations showing off or acting the maggot. Will purely just to keep steady progress on long journeys.

Gumbo

cormie wrote: »

2 years doesn't sound long.. Is that supposed to be good for a remapped car? :eek::o

The driving I'll be doing will be average speed of 120kmph with the extra torque used for overtaking at speeds of 95kmph or so covering about 20,000 miles a year.

I wont be doing skids out of petrol stations showing off or acting the maggot. Will purely just to keep steady progress on long journeys.

what i mean is two years mapped and no problems so far......
sounds like you will have no problems after a remap!

EPM

+1

Thats easy driving. Couldn't imagine you having any problems with that. Engine will be running at optimum conditions most of the time and strain will be minimal. I'd go for it