Hate the English??

getz · 09-10-2009 02:37PM

Rondolfus wrote: »

Yes a lot of Irishmen fought in the British army and helped carve out the British Empire.These things happen, especially when a people are "desperate" to earn money becuase social conditions are so bad they can't feed their families.
However, even more Irish men fought against it.

Believe or not, in recent years many British people actually supported the Irish Republican cause. Perhaps the most prominent being Rose Dugdale

Also I'd like to query your figures in relation to Cromwells army. When you say Irishmen made up half of cromwells army, do you mean the native Irish or "anglo-Irish"? I have noticed that in a lot of British published history books they rarely make a distinction between native Irish people and those loyal "settler" subjects who obvioulsy supported the British. I have a feeling they do this so they can present an image that the Irish were fully "behind" the Empire. Even though opposite was true.

For a long time Ireland has had two ethnic groups. Those who consider themselves Irish and those that don't. I believe the vast majority of the "Irish" that fought for the British Empire were of the latter group. You know, the whole "Scots-Irish" brigade who despite what the name suggets, they only consider themselves British.

is it still the case that some irish people think you cannot be irish ,unless you are born from irish stock ?,if so you will be in for a big shock as ireland becomes a immigrant country,like the UK you will soon be multi/racial,with all that entails,then you try to telling the children they are not irish,if you do you will find you will be classed as racist, the fact is that if you are born in ireland you ARE irish,even if you are from ethnic stock or have a allegiance to some other nation.

getz · 09-10-2009 02:52PM

robinph wrote: »

It's true, Sellafield was built just to try and kill off the Irish with a good dose of radiation.

this is a embarrassment,the state agency,furfas has warned ireland ,it will face a fuel crisis in the next 10-15 years,and may have to develop a nuclear power station to supply its electricity. --whoops own goal

Rondolfus · 09-10-2009 03:35PM

getz wrote: »

the fact is that if you are born in ireland you ARE irish,even if you are from ethnic stock or have a allegiance to some other nation.

Try saying that to an Ulster Unionist.

getz · 09-10-2009 04:02PM

Rondolfus wrote: »

Try saying that to an Ulster Unionist.

of course ulster unionists are irish,i have never met one yet who doesent think he is irish,the problem you have is that you only think people who are born in the republic are irish, ireland and the irish are divided by two political systems,

Rondolfus · 09-10-2009 04:22PM

getz wrote: »

of course ulster unionists are irish,i have never met one yet who doesent think he is irish,the problem you have is that you only think people who are born in the republic are irish, ireland and the irish are divided by two political systems,

I suspected it, but now I know you are making things up. Loyalists and Ulster Unionsts totally reject the idea of being Irish!! In a similar way to Nationalists in NI rejecting the idea of being British. And thanks to the good Friday agreement. This is facilitated by Interntaional law.

"You have never met one that doesn't think he's Irish???" Evidently you haven't been to East Belfast or anywhere else in Northern Ireland for that matter!!

Im sorry, but your statement betrays a total lack of understanding about what's actually happening in Nortern Ireland.

BennyLava · 09-10-2009 04:30PM

it is possible to be Irish and British at the same time you know, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Ulster Unionists are Irish, they just owe their allegiance to Britain, maybe one day this will change, maybe not,

getz · 09-10-2009 04:36PM

Rondolfus wrote: »

I suspected it, but now I know you are making things up. Loyalists and Ulster Unionsts totally reject the idea of being Irish!! In a similar way to Nationalists in NI rejecting the idea of being British. And thanks to the good Friday agreement. This is facilitated by Interntaional law.

"You have never met one that doesn't think he's Irish???" Evidently you haven't been to East Belfast or anywhere else in Northern Ireland for that matter!!

Im sorry, but your statement betrays a total lack of understanding about what's actually happening in Nortern Ireland.

i have been to belfast/larn/derry/banger and many places in northern ireland even back as far as 1957, no northern irishman has ever told me that he is not irish,more than one has said i dont want anything to do with that lot down there [i am not quoting the exact words]they will always tell you that they are northern irish,

Rondolfus · 09-10-2009 04:36PM

BennyLava wrote: »

it is possible to be Irish and British at the same time you know, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Ulster Unionists are Irish, they just owe their allegiance to Britain, maybe one day this will change, maybe not,

Once again this is totally ignoring the realities if the North! Most nationalists in the North classify themselves as Irish! Most loyalists classify themselves as British and will actually correct you if you call them "Irish". They don't accept it, particularly in the working class protestant areas!

Im not commenting on whether this is right or wrong. I'm merely stating the reality of the situation which some people here are ignoring.

Lol try telling Johnny Adare or Michael Stone that they are "Irish" simply becuase they were born on the island of Ireland!

Rondolfus · 09-10-2009 04:39PM

getz wrote: »

i have been to belfast/larn/derry/banger and many places in northern ireland even back as far as 1957, no northern irishman has ever told me that he is not irish,more than one has said i dont want anything to do with that lot down there [i am not quoting the exact words]they will always tell you that they are northern irish,

Well I too have been all over the 6 counties and I have yet to meet even one Loyalist that says they are Irish! The vast majoirty will say they are just British. A small number may say they are British and Northern Irish, however, never I have ever encountered any of them saying they are Irish! Nationalists on the other hand will always say Irish

BennyLava · 09-10-2009 04:41PM

Rondolfus wrote: »

Once again this is totally ignoring the realities if the North! Most nationalists in the North classify themselves as Irish! Most loyalists classify themselves as British and will actually correct you if you call them "Irish". They don't accept it, particularly in the working class protestant areas!

Im not commenting on whether this is right or wrong. I'm merely stating the reality of the situation which some people here are ignoring.

Lol try telling Johnny Adare or Michael Stone that they are "Irish" simply becuase they were born on the island of Ireland!

You obviously know all there is to know about the "North" then, and everything everyone who comes from the six counties think as well. Good for you

getz · 09-10-2009 04:47PM

BennyLava wrote: »

You obviously know all there is to know about the "North" then, and everything everyone who comes from the six counties think as well. Good for you

lets all sing that great irish song,the derry air,no wait a minute its not irish

Fratton Fred · 09-10-2009 04:57PM

BennyLava wrote: »

it is possible to be Irish and British at the same time you know, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Ulster Unionists are Irish, they just owe their allegiance to Britain, maybe one day this will change, maybe not,

I would argue that you can't actually be just British, you have to be English, Welsh, Scottish or Irish AND British. It's just a case of which one you are first.

ejmaztec · 09-10-2009 05:06PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I would argue that you can't actually be just British, you have to be English, Welsh, Scottish or Irish AND British. It's just a case of which one you are first.

As Mr Spock would say, it wouldn't be logical for the loyalists not to refer to themselves as "Irish". I wonder how they referred to themselves before independence and partition (when it was all one big happy family

)?

Rondolfus · 09-10-2009 05:27PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I would argue that you can't actually be just British, you have to be English, Welsh, Scottish or Irish AND British. It's just a case of which one you are first.

Thats logical and many in Ireland including myself would agree with you. However, the reality is loyalist culture has become so entrenched (becuase of the troubles) that they do not feel comfortable identifying themselves as Irish, so they simply say British.

Northern Ireland is far more complex than some people are giving it credit for.

getz wrote:

lets all sing that great irish song,the derry air,no wait a minute its not irish

Thats just being childish. Two ethnic cultures exist in the north. Irish and British. This is extremely difficult for outsiders to acknowledge or indeed understand. However I don't think either culture should be made fun of.

blinding · 09-10-2009 05:30PM

They are British Irish or British Northern Irish

And let that be an end to it.

ejmaztec · 09-10-2009 05:38PM

976 posts and no-ones threatened to nail someone to a tree yet. This will go down in the annals of history, resulting in Boards getting the next Nobel Peace Prize.

blinding · 09-10-2009 05:45PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

976 posts and no-ones threatened to nail someone to a tree yet. This will go down in the annals of history, resulting in Boards getting the next Nobel Peace Prize.

Give it to me I am far more peaceful that the rest of you blaguards:D

ejmaztec · 09-10-2009 05:55PM

blinding wrote: »

Give it to me I am far more peaceful that the rest of you blaguards:D

You'll probably have to fight somebody for it, which would defeat the object somewhat:eek:

wudangclan · 09-10-2009 06:21PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

This will go down in the anals of history, resulting in Boards getting the next Nobel Piss Prize.

fyp (just to be rude)

alfranken · 09-10-2009 06:24PM

Hate the bloody english, the lot of them, any want to watch the Man Utd match at the weekend?

ejmaztec · 09-10-2009 06:27PM

wudangclan wrote: »

fyp (just to be rude)

Probably more accurate than my version.:(

starbelgrade · 09-10-2009 06:39PM

Rondolfus wrote: »

Try saying that to an Ulster Unionist.

They would say, "NOOOOOOOOOOO!".

ch750536 · 12-10-2009 04:31PM

Found myself in Smyths Tralee yesterday, saw something a bit disturbing.

http://www.toys.ie/Shop_Product_List.aspx?Profile=Euro&query=HM+Armed+Forces

You need to see the boxes though.
here

See the website here

Just left a bitter taste in my mouth that kids pick up & play with these.

furiousox · 12-10-2009 04:33PM

ch750536 wrote: »

Found myself in Smyths Tralee yesterday, saw something a bit disturbing.

http://www.toys.ie/Shop_Product_List.aspx?Profile=Euro&query=HM+Armed+Forces

You need to see the boxes though.
here

See the website here

Just left a bitter taste in my mouth that kids pick up & play with these.

Lets all buy the para and kick the sh1t out of it! :pac:

asdasd · 12-10-2009 04:36PM

They've been around for years. Who has not played with toy soldiers.

Fratton Fred · 12-10-2009 04:40PM

No different to Action Man TBH.

robinph · 12-10-2009 04:42PM

ch750536 wrote: »

Just left a bitter taste in my mouth that kids pick up & play with these.

Why, because it's got the wrong type of flag on it, or just the whole playing with toy guns type thing?

mike65 · 12-10-2009 04:46PM

I suspect his signiture gives you a clue.

robinph · 12-10-2009 04:53PM

Tesco's are about to start oppressing us with children's toys?

Nalz · 12-10-2009 05:18PM

ch750536 wrote: »

Found myself in Smyths Tralee yesterday, saw something a bit disturbing.

http://www.toys.ie/Shop_Product_List.aspx?Profile=Euro&query=HM+Armed+Forces

You need to see the boxes though.
here

See the website here

Just left a bitter taste in my mouth that kids pick up & play with these.

You're kidding right?

God I remember playing with plastic soldiers... 50p a bag, the memories. My back garden was like a war zone. Great fun. I wanna be a kid again

Hate the English??

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