Leinster rugby

thebaz · 03-10-2009 09:10PM #1

One great thing I have noticed about rugby's growing popularity in Leinster , is that is its going beyond its traditional Dublin 4 / South Dublin base. I have witnessed in may inner city estates , kids passing a rugby ball, instead of the traditional football. I myself came to rugby through the schools , and never liked Leinster's elitism , but now feal proud of how the game is growing through the province, and of the province itself.

p.s. this is not a dig at Munster today , but Munster rugby always seams to have been a game for everyone , so happy days all round.

Aidric · 03-10-2009 09:24PM

Leinster still have a hell of a long way to go before they can be comparing themselves to Munster when it comes to inclusiveness.

Eoin · 04-10-2009 12:04AM

I think it also a case of the perception catching up with what has been a reality for a few years now.

Aidric wrote: »

Leinster still have a hell of a long way to go before they can be comparing themselves to Munster when it comes to inclusiveness.

What an absolutely unnecessary and petty post.

Chucky the tree · 04-10-2009 12:43AM

Reality? Disagree with that. The fact that whenever someone asked where to watch the match they were given a list of pubs in Dublin 4 doesn't say much either. The majority of pubs in Dublin yesterday would of had the United match on first and foremost.

Eoin · 04-10-2009 12:47AM

I'm talking about the game actually being played, not whether or not roundball was on the TVs instead.

Of course D4 is going to be a stronghold of Dublin rugby, but there are a lot of clubs in the outskirts and of course, outside of Dublin that are growing at a great rate and competing against the big clubs.

justsomebloke · 04-10-2009 12:59AM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Reality? Disagree with that. The fact that whenever someone asked where to watch the match they were given a list of pubs in Dublin 4 doesn't say much either. The majority of pubs in Dublin yesterday would of had the United match on first and foremost.

Stupid post. Someone asked where the bst place to see the match in thse city centr was and caise of it's closeness that is whyy people said go to ballsbridge

Aidric · 04-10-2009 01:02AM

eoin wrote: »

I think it also a case of the perception catching up with what has been a reality for a few years now.

What an absolutely unnecessary and petty post.

Do you have some facts to back up that chip on your shoulder?

Eoin · 04-10-2009 01:06AM

What kind of facts would you like; teams that are doing well in Leinster that are not from the tradional D4 stable of clubs? Or are you just looking to argue?

I'm hardly the one with the chip on my shoulder.

Aidric · 04-10-2009 01:09AM

I'm not looking to argue. I just dispute the claim that rugby is as inclusive throughout the province as the OP is making out. It's still Dublin predominantly.

Eoin · 04-10-2009 01:17AM

Dublin being the biggest area in the province for rugby is not the same thing as saying that clubs are not becoming more inclusive.

There are more clubs outside of Dublin, and especially D4 - and some of these are doing particularly well. When you play Junior rugby in Leinster, you get to play against the township teams throughout the province and you can see a real community spirit where anyone is welcome to play.

My club might be in South Dublin, but I can assure you that it's a long way away from the stereotype of D4 rugby clubs. I'm sure the guys from the likes of Stillorgan would say the same about their club.

themont85 · 04-10-2009 01:19AM

Aidric wrote: »

I'm not looking to argue. I just dispute the claim that rugby is as inclusive throughout the province as the OP is making out. It's still Dublin predominantly.

Well Dublin is the capital and has the vast majority of the population so ergo the majority of players and fans. This isn't Limerick and Cork splitting the majority of the fans, this is a population base which most of the province is based around.

tbh I'm sick of this whole 'wow Leinster are really inclusive now' since they won the Heineken Cup and beat Munster in a 'big game'. These things don't just happen overnight, Shane Horgan has been around for yonks. Sean O'Brien didn't just pop up one day. Season ticket holders from Tallaght, North Dublin, Carlow et al didn't just woosh and appear one day.

All the people saying this are only saying this because Leinster are winning, if Leinster had lost on May 26th and today, it would have been the usual 'Leinster are D4 ladyboys blah blah blah'. But the reality is that Sean O'Brien would still be in the system and the Leinster branch would still be trying to spread the game. But in saying that the majority are today as before from the schools. This is nothing to be ashamed about. Of course winning means more of the kids(and adults) from outlining areas can suddenly 'identify' with Leinster cos they're winning but the fundementals of Leinster rugby remain the same in its base and its real growth. Not amongst those who will drop them once Munster or Ulster climb back up the ladder again.

The OP is only proud of the province cos we are winning, this thread wouldn't have been started if we had lost.

andrewdcs · 04-10-2009 02:25AM

Most decent players in the province end up being sent to "D4" schools to get the best coaching for something they/their families love. Same with rockwell/munchins/pres etc. in fairness.

Heaslip, Cullen, the Kearneys, and many many more are non "Dublin". How many Kerrymen/Waterfordmen play/have played for Munster?
Munster base is Limerick and Cork schools. Leinster base is Dublin schools. Twas ever thus/

The myth that rugby in Munster is an everyman game is just that.

CatFromHue · 04-10-2009 02:36AM

hmm im going to have to add my 2cents to this too
im 28 now
i palyed for an old section A weaker school, prob the actually only school in D4 too!! (if you know your schools you should be able to figure that out!), in the senior and junior cup we played away to teams quite a distance away from dublin. st mels and st pats and also a team from new ross.
so to say now that rugby is branching out of dublin is false, 10 years ago we were traveling way outside dublin to play teams that wereny just there to maje up the numbers

anonymous_joe · 04-10-2009 02:45AM

CatFromHue wrote: »

hmm im going to have to add my 2cents to this too
im 28 now
i palyed for an old section A weaker school, prob the actually only school in D4 too!! (if you know your schools you should be able to figure that out!), in the senior and junior cup we played away to teams quite a distance away from dublin. st mels and st pats and also a team from new ross.
so to say now that rugby is branching out of dublin is false, 10 years ago we were traveling way outside dublin to play teams that wereny just there to maje up the numbers

There's a few schools in D4.

Michaels, Conleths, Marian all play rugby afaik.

CatFromHue · 04-10-2009 02:50AM

yep and only 1 of em is in the strong section

Podge_irl · 04-10-2009 02:57AM

The extreme disdain that people throw on the "D4 crowd" has always annoyed me. Its Leinster's base and there is no shame in that. They are making great efforts to expand their supporter base - witness the great strides they have made in Tallaght as an example. However, I have no problem with Leinster Rugby acknowledging their roots and concentrating on their supporter base.

There is absolutely nothing stopping people from supporting Leinster from outside the "traditional" areas. And inroads are constantly being made with regards grassroots rugby. These things do not happen overnight. GAA is completely ingrained in my area and there would be a lot of resistance to the Leinster Branch if they tried to expand there. Its not as if its a situation entirely of their own making.

We should all celebrate the progress rugby is making all over Ireland instead of belitting the efforts some areas are making.

raven136 · 04-10-2009 08:20AM

Its getting really annoying that people will not accept that Leinster have and continue to broaden their base.Kildare for example has 3 clubs that are well run that all have a leinster season ticket holders and passionate fans and the same can be said for surrounding counties.Take a trip to a leinster game and notice the varying accents in the crowd.

toomevara · 04-10-2009 08:27AM

Goose81 banned.

thebaz · 04-10-2009 09:24AM

themont85 wrote: »

The OP is only proud of the province cos we are winning, this thread wouldn't have been started if we had lost.

Really ?

- i said I was proud of the province that rugby had become more inclusive , thers no doubt that 10 years ago Leinster was elite, bar the odd Trevor Brennan

winning and a bit more spirit does help, but thats true of most sports

Tefral · 04-10-2009 09:46AM

eoin wrote: »

My club might be in South Dublin, but I can assure you that it's a long way away from the stereotype of D4 rugby clubs. I'm sure the guys from the likes of Stillorgan would say the same about their club.

Its the reason why i Picked Stillorgan to play rugby with, a couple of my mates moved up from down the country playing at j1 and j2 level and went to places like bective just to be met with a suspicious eye. Needless to say they left and went to other clubs to play who would actually have them. Dublin rugby is still elitist in places, if you look at our Stillorgan team, there is over 70 players in training and matches, we have the whole makings of a team as surplus and we play in 3 divisions the ONLY reason for this: all the lads are sound and welcome new guys in!

Rugby in Leinster will have to get better at including people or else their clubs will find they are looking for players come match day!(something we see the whole time)

irishbucsfan · 04-10-2009 09:55AM

I personally believe that the myth that rugby has mainly been followed in South Dublin in Leinster is a myth based on, and supported by, the people there.

People from the other provinces like to point out the stereotypical D4 Leinster fan and say that this is, for the most part, the type of person that follows rugby in Leinster but that's just not the case and it hasn't ever been the case. There are strong rugby communities across the province. Naas RFC have 250 Minis out playing on their pitches every Sunday morning, and this isn't a new thing, and it isn't a thing confined to Naas either. School's rugby may have been dominated by South Dublin teams perhaps, but there are still teams like Clongowes, Belvedere, Newbridge College, etc. from outside the South Dublin area that are producing excellent rugby players constantly.

The fact that the team is based in Donnybrook and play their games in Ballsbridge means that most of the fans going to watch matches are from that area, but surely that has to be expected. If Barcelona played their games in Seville then I'm sure you'd see the majority of their season ticket holders being Sevillians.

The elitism in Leinster rugby does exist. There isn't much denying that. There are a group of certain people in the upper echelons of certain rugby clubs in certain areas of Leinster (not just South Dublin) who have always looked down upon rugby players from non-traditional backgrounds, however that is dying out fast and the fact that there are very few true "D4s" left in the Leinster squad is an example of that.

Bandwaggonery was always expected when Leinster beat Munster and won the H-Cup (I remember going to the match in May and being one of the few people on my street with my blue flag hanging out my window, and coming back to a street full of blue BOI flags!) but I'm happy for Leinster to sit back and take the money they spend on merchandise before they inevitably leave the next time we hit a dry spell.

damnyanks · 04-10-2009 10:15AM

cronin_j wrote: »

Its the reason why i Picked Stillorgan to play rugby with, a couple of my mates moved up from down the country playing at j1 and j2 level and went to places like bective just to be met with a suspicious eye. Needless to say they left and went to other clubs to play who would actually have them. Dublin rugby is still elitist in places, if you look at our Stillorgan team, there is over 70 players in training and matches, we have the whole makings of a team as surplus and we play in 3 divisions the ONLY reason for this: all the lads are sound and welcome new guys in!

Rugby in Leinster will have to get better at including people or else their clubs will find they are looking for players come match day!(something we see the whole time)

This is more so an Irish thing then anything. I've noticed Irish people are all friendly etc. but don't really like new comers inside their 'circle of friends'.

Most of these Dublni clubs have players who went to school together etc. So they generally arent welcoming to newcomers, its not intentional though.

ch2008 · 04-10-2009 11:10AM

Podge_irl wrote: »

The extreme disdain that people throw on the "D4 crowd" has always annoyed me. Its Leinster's base and there is no shame in that. They are making great efforts to expand their supporter base - witness the great strides they have made in Tallaght as an example. However, I have no problem with Leinster Rugby acknowledging their roots and concentrating on their supporter base.

Thats a really good point. I think there's a real double standard at play here. So what if its been based in D4? Does it make you a bad person if your from a certain social background?

Two things I've never heard of in rugby;
i) Someone not being allowed join a rugby club in dublin because of their background.

ii) People complaining about Munster Rugby being controlled by the working classes

I think a lot of people should consider what they really mean by "elitist". The people that are the backbone of the game in Leinster are decent, honest people who work damn hard at it. And yes, some of them are relatively wealthy. I just don't see why it matters.

toomevara · 04-10-2009 11:14AM

Back to the rugby please folks.

ch2008 · 04-10-2009 11:16AM

toomevara wrote: »

Back to the rugby please folks.

I would have thought this thread is pretty much on-topic?

themont85 · 04-10-2009 11:17AM

thebaz wrote: »

Really ?

- i said I was proud of the province that rugby had become more inclusive , thers no doubt that 10 years ago Leinster was elite, bar the odd Trevor Brennan

winning and a bit more spirit does help, but thats true of most sports

I somewhat doubt you would have started this thread if Leinster hadn't been winning recently,but the reality is that Leinster rugby and the branch would be in the exact same situation in their efforts to expand.

ch2008 · 04-10-2009 11:22AM

themont85 wrote: »

I somewhat doubt you would have started this thread if Leinster hadn't been winning recently,but the reality is that Leinster rugby and the branch would be in the exact same situation in their efforts to expand.

You have to ask yourself if its Leinster Rugby being elitist or Leinster people being reluctant to buy into the team.

Heroditas · 04-10-2009 12:37PM

Aidric wrote: »

Do you have some facts to back up that chip on your shoulder?

Clondalkin, Unidare, Tallaght, Stillorgan, Guinness. Yup, definitely "elitist" clubs.

toomevara · 04-10-2009 12:47PM

ch2008 wrote: »

I would have thought this thread is pretty much on-topic?

I don't want generalised, broad stroke comments about Leinster/Munster people degenerating into the usual idiotic, quasi-moronic nonsense. Hence my request that people leave out the pop cultural/sociological analysis and return to the topic of this forum which, unsurprisingly, is the game of rugby union, and, more specifically the topic of the thread at hand; Leinster rugby. There are plenty of other forums available for the discussion of the idiosyncracies of irish society.

ch2008 · 04-10-2009 12:49PM

toomevara wrote: »

I don't want generalised, broad stroke comments about Leinster/Munster people degenerating into the usual idiotic, quasi-moronic nonsense. Hence my request that people leave out the pop cultural/sociological analysis and return to the topic of this forum which, unsurprisingly, is the game of rugby union, and, more specifically the topic of the thread at hand; Leinster rugby. There are plenty of other forums available for the discussion of the idiosyncracies of irish society.

OP- "never liked Leinster's elitism"

Eoin · 04-10-2009 12:57PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There are strong rugby communities across the province. Naas RFC have 250 Minis out playing on their pitches every Sunday morning, and this isn't a new thing, and it isn't a thing confined to Naas either.

Naas is a good example and also Seapoint Rugby Club in Ballybrack has huge numbers of minis as well, and is where Felix Jones (Munster and Ireland A) came from. Cill Dara have a very professional set up as well.

Leinster rugby

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