Irish times journalist says that Irish fee paying schools not elitist !!!

There will be disruptive brats in any school - I know you said they get shown the door, but that's not always the case.
On these threads, private school students are always depicted as quiet, polite, mannerly, studious little souls - like something out of Tom Brown's Schooldays (when being anything else would result in a battering). The days of the private school moulding young gentlemen/ladies are long gone.
Someone said earlier on this thread that it's difficult to tell the vast majority of the time whether someone went to a private or public school - I wholeheartedly agree.

eoin wrote: »

Again, my issue is with assuming that people that go to private schools are all gormless chinless wonders that will benefit from this mythical old tie network.

Same as I. Some of my brothers' friends come from families who didn't have a pot to piss in, but they made whatever sacrifices they could to put their boys through that school anyway because it is a very good school.

Put it this way - if you have kids and the best school in the area actually was a private one that you could afford, would you send your kids there?

Oh I absolutely would. Sending your child to a private school because it's a really good school is not objectionable.
But there are views like "It will segregate them from the riff-raff" and "we're too good for a state school".
If the school is a good school, it's a good school - there's a difference between that though and "if we pay fees, it must be a good school".

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Aye, but the kind of disruptive brats you get are quite different. I doubt that in private schools you get students threatening to batter the teachers.

I disagree. Macho, laddish bravado is prevalent in all walks of life. Certain behaviours tend to be associated only with certain classes, which is a fallacy. For instance, my mother knew the owner of a shop near a private girls' school and the woman's heart was broken from the shoplifting that seemed to go through the roof immediately before, during and after school hours.
Now I'm not saying this therefore means people who attend private school are more likely to shoplift, of course, but it flies in the face of the notion that middle-class/upper middle-class kids are above such behaviour.

These schools won't foster a feeling of snobbish entitlement in children/teenagers, it is and will always be purely down to how they are brought up by their parents.

Again, disagreed. The influence of one's peers can never be underestimated. And while a lot of people grow out of that, sadly, many don't.

Did I miss some memo? When did elite become a pejorative term?

I've taught in secondary schools (run by religious orders), vocational schools, and a private boarding school.

I do understand that for students coming from a troubled home, a boarding school is perhaps the most stable home that a child can hope for. I also understand that many parents believe that a private school is their way of giving their child the best start in life. But I think there is, and more so than ever, this opinion that if you spend the money you'll get the results. I have found it much harder to get students to work in a private school than an ordinary secondary school in my experience. Money cannot buy a will to work and a will to co-operate and listen in class. It's as bad as those who pay for grinds for students who don't even do the basics in class.

I think that if I ever have children I'd rather send them to a non fee paying school. I just feel in my experience as a teacher that you do have a broader range of backgrounds in front of you and I'd like my child to be amongst that. Of course those in private schools can vary too, and some can just about afford it, but there is definitely a different atmosphere and air in a private school than in public schools. I can't put my finger on it, it's just there.

Having said that, it's up to each parent to decide what's best for their child, and no one has the right to criticise that decision. One thing that I've come to notice though is that boys are, in 99% of cases, better off being in a co-educational setting- socially, educationally, and emotionally. Again, just my opinion!

Oh and as for no spoilt pupils in Clongowes?!?! EVERY school has spoilt brats, and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

I went to a public school. My friend went to a private school. There have been times where we've gotten into arguments over our schooldays. My school was a dive, the five years I spent there have by far been the worst of my life so far. My friend looks back on her school days and feels happy and even now meets with her old English teacher for coffee and chats. As nice as it is to know that some schools really are a happy place, the girl is horribly naive. She's still living at home (she's only 22 so that's not a big deal) and she has never been short on cash. All of her clothes are bought from expensive boutiques and her accent is posh enough that she managed to get us stared out of it in Fairview! She's a lovely girl but one day we had a huge argument while talking about school. She stated that ''my family are no different to yours, they just realise how important an education is''. Well......... as nice as she normally is there was no way I was letting that one slide. Her family are not the same as mine; there have three cars in their Foxrock car park (beautiful area btw) The Masters which she is currently doing has been paid off by her family, she's not had to pay a cent of it. She went on every single optional field trip during her undergrad, she has 2-3 holidays every year. All of which she deserves to have, I don't think for a second that she should be deprived of any of it but what did annoy me was her audacity to claim she was the same as me.

I used to be sick going to school, I hated the way the scum in the classes got to dictate whether or not we could learn something that day. We lost five teachers during the leaving cert following a series of accidents like their cars being destroyed, knives being pulled and fights breaking out in the classrooms on a weekly basis. This was completely normal for us but I hated it. A small handful of us finished the leaving cert and went onto college. My point was that my friend can brag all she wants and claim her parents were more focused than mine but yet we both ended up in the same place, doing the same degree and getting the same results. I've been living away from my family since I was 17, I've worked the whole time during college and I've paid off my Masters deposits myself and yet she thinks she's the same as me?! That's the only thing I have a problem with. I think sometimes when you are very privileged you cannot see how blessed you are. Sometimes they don't even have a clue what's happening out there in ordinary public schools. There's a shocking divide between kids in private schools and kids on the public system and I think it's very unfair to claim that the families in private schools are just working that bit harder. If you have the money for private education then fair play but at least acknowledge that it is a mighty fine privilege and realise that no matter how many hours you work, that option is not available to everybody!


*I'm not knocking private education btw, I'd certainly consider it for my kids in the future given my school experience.

Great post MizzLolly.

MizzLolly wrote: »

I used to be sick going to school, I hated the way the scum in the classes got to dictate whether or not we could learn something that day. We lost five teachers during the leaving cert following a series of accidents like their cars being destroyed, knives being pulled and fights breaking out in the classrooms on a weekly basis. This was completely normal for us but I hated it.

Unfortunately though, while I realise some state schools have an abundance of problems such as the above, some of the "private school only" lobby argue this applies to every state school there is, which is just pathetic ignorance.

Yeah, the schools that have the elitist elements tend to be catholic ones. Protestant/non denominational private schools seem more right-on and artsy.

RMD wrote: »

Jesuit schools I think are quite an exception to the typical snobbish private school. All teach "turning a boy in a man", all seem to be heavily involved in charity work (most notably Belvedere college). When I want to teach my son character, I'm packing him off to a Jesuit school as I feel through character is built through working for other people true charity, and no schools do that on the scale the Jesuits do.

personally i won't have any child attending a religious school, if they find religion useful then so be it, but i'd prefer they come to their own conclusions via some form of rational inquiry rather than indoctrination - likewise with charity work, i'd prefer they construct their own moral code. I have no real problem with private schools, at all, and i will say that if a pay-school happened to be the best option for any child i might have i wouldn't hesitate. however, my point is that i would much prefer to have a child come out of education street smart aswell as booksmart, as i like to think i have, and this is in my view generally not accomplished by private schools. i work in a university and i see a very high proportion of privately educated children who have not a single ounce of cop-on, despite having received the best educations money can buy.