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Israel refuse to co-operate with UN on nuclear inspections

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    #62
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Justind wrote: »
    All this hypocritical waffle from the usual armchair suspects on anything Israeli just needs a reality check from time to time.

    I've seen no hypocrisy. The fact is that Israel has not joined the IAEA, has no inspectors and is allowed to pretend that it has no weapons, when its known for a fact that it has. No other regime has been allowed this privilege.


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    #63
    Ping Chow Chi
    Registered Users Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭Ping Chow Chi


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    At least the Israelis were being honest about it. Which is more deceitful, not signing the treaty and developing a nuke, or signing the treaty, and developing a nuke anyway? Note that Iran has not come to an agreement yet with the IAEA/UN on its own inspections, the article in the OP even notes Iran's own hypocrisy.

    I'll just point out that it has not been proved that Iran are developing nukes yet, surely it was this type of wishy-washy doublespeak that got us invading Iraq for their invisible WMD.


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    #64
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    Here's a story now today titled.

    Israel's 'options open' on Iran


    Israel has not ruled out any options in dealing with Iran's nuclear programme, a senior Israeli official has said.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8267189.stm



    What if instead the story read as follows.

    Irans 'options open' on Isreal


    Iran has not ruled out any options in dealing with Israels nuclear programme, a senior Iranian official has said.


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    #65
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon said there was no guarantee Israel would not launch a strike on Iran's nuclear facilities.

    All threats seem to be coming from Israel towards Iran. Where has Iran threatened Israel to warrant an attack?


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    #66
    stevedublin
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭stevedublin


    dlofnep wrote: »
    All threats seem to be coming from Israel towards Iran. Where has Iran threatened Israel to warrant an attack?

    The current Iranian president has threatened to wipe Israel off the map and has denied the existence of the holocaust. Iran supplies weapons to Hamas and Hizbollah who use them against Israeli soldiers and civilians.
    Israel probably has nuclear weapons but are very unlikely to use them except in an extreme case of self-defense as a last resort.
    Any moderately-informed, sane, rational person understands that Iran is a threat to Israels existence and not vice versa.


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    #67
    RedPlanet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭RedPlanet


    stevedublin wrote: »
    The current Iranian president has threatened to wipe Israel off the map
    That is not true.
    The correct translation has become a matter of debate.
    and has denied the existence of the holocaust.
    So? That's an excuse for threating war is it?
    Iran supplies weapons to Hamas and Hizbollah who use them against Israeli soldiers and civilians.
    And fair play to them (minus the civilians part)


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    #68
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    stevedublin wrote: »
    The current Iranian president has threatened to wipe Israel off the map.

    Wrong, no he didn't.
    stevedublin wrote: »
    Iran supplies weapons to Hamas and Hizbollah who use them against Israeli soldiers and civilians.

    So what if they do - American supplies Israel with 3 billion annually in military support. What's the difference?
    stevedublin wrote: »
    Any moderately-informed, sane, rational person understands that Iran is a threat to Israels existence and not vice versa.

    I'm a rational person. What you are attempting to do is cast anyone who disagrees with your opinion as an irrational person. Not a very substantial piece to debate with to be honest.

    Israel is the one who has repeatedly attacked other nations. Israel is the one accused of war-crimes. Israel is the one who has used people as human shields. Israel is the one that has occupied land illegally, and expanded settlements against international will.

    So given Israel's track record on attacking other nations, their blatant disregard for criticism from the international community in regards to their war crimes, and their aggressive nature which was evident in the last assault on Palestine, and reported by not only Palestinians but UN representatives, Is it not quite evident who the bigger threat is.

    Quiz time - Can you tell me the last time Iran attacked another nation, that was not out of self defense?


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    #69
    stevedublin
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭stevedublin


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Wrong, no he didn't.
    Maybe I got the wording wrong, but the meaning is clear, the current regime of Iran wish to destroy Israel by any means necessary.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    So what if they do - American supplies Israel with 3 billion annually in military support. What's the difference?
    The difference is that Hamas and Hisbollah use the weapons to kill Israeli soldiers and civilians.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    Quiz time - Can you tell me the last time Iran attacked another nation, that was not out of self defense
    No, can you tell me the last time Israel attacked another nation, that was not out of self defense? By the way, Iran and Iraq had a war in the 1980s


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    #70
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    stevedublin wrote: »
    Maybe I got the wording wrong, but the meaning is clear, the current regime of Iran wish to destroy Israel by any means necessary.

    Where is your evidence for this?

    stevedublin wrote: »
    The difference is that Hamas and Hisbollah use the weapons to kill Israeli soldiers and civilians.

    The IDF uses weapons to kill soldiers and civilians. What's your point? Moreover, the IDF has killed substantially more civilians at an unfathomable ratio compared to Hamas.
    stevedublin wrote: »
    No, can you tell me the last time Israel attacked another nation, that was not out of self defense?

    A few months back. It was internationally discussed. Perhaps you missed it. Nearly 1,500 Palestinians killed, 1000's of homes destroyed, nearly half a million people left without water.

    13 Israelis killed in the same period, 4 of which were by friendly fire from other members of the IDF.

    If the IDF were defending against anything, it should have been defending against themselves since their nearly killed as many Israelis as Hamas did.
    stevedublin wrote: »
    By the way, Iran and Iraq had a war in the 1980s

    Iraq invaded Iran, Iran defended itself. I asked you the last time Iran attacked another nation not out of self defense. Can you answer?


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    #71
    stevedublin
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭stevedublin


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Iraq invaded Iran, Iran defended itself. I asked you the last time Iran attacked another nation not out of self defense. Can you answer?

    I already answered no!
    can you answer when Israel attacked another nation not out of self defense?


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    #72
    stevedublin
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭stevedublin


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Where is your evidence for this?
    The pronouncements of Ahmadinejad, Khatami and others in power in Iran.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    The IDF uses weapons to kill soldiers and civilians. What's your point?
    my point is the IDF uses the weapons to DEFEND their country, not launch unprovoked attacks.


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    #73
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    stevedublin wrote: »
    I already answered no!

    So you don't know when Iran attacked another nation, but yet still feel that they are the greater threat to Israel - a country accused of war crimes? Am I missing something here?


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    #74
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    stevedublin wrote: »
    my point is the IDF uses the weapons to DEFEND their country, not launch unprovoked attacks.

    No it doesn't.


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    #75
    stevedublin
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭stevedublin


    dlofnep wrote: »
    So you don't know when Iran attacked another nation, but yet still feel that they are the greater threat to Israel - a country accused of war crimes? Am I missing something here?

    yes, you are missing the threats to Israels existence by its leaders, Irans supply of weaponry to Hamas and Hisbollah who then use said weaponry to attack and kill Israelis, the general intention of the current Iranian regime to destroy Israel etc. etc. etc.


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    #76
    stevedublin
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭stevedublin


    Iran may not have started a war against another nation, but nor did Israel.
    Iran has brutally suppressed and killed ethnic minorities and political dissidents and others. If you want to look for war crimes, examine Irans behaviour in the Iran/Iraq war.


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    #77
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    stevedublin wrote: »

    The difference is that Hamas and Hisbollah use the weapons to kill Israeli soldiers and civilians.

    And Israel supplied weapons to the SLA and Phalangists which were used to kill Lebanese soldiers and civillians, and Irish UN personnell.
    stevedublin wrote: »
    No, can you tell me the last time Israel attacked another nation, that was not out of self defense? By the way, Iran and Iraq had a war in the 1980s

    They alledge self defence everytime. Iraq attacked Iran, btw.
    stevedublin wrote: »
    my point is the IDF uses the weapons to DEFEND their country, not launch unprovoked attacks.

    How is occupying the West Bank and building civillian housing therein using weapons to "DEFEND" Israel? I'm just not seeing how evicting Arab farmers and building nice semi-detached housing on the land constitutes self defence meself.......


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    #78
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Israel has received the go ahead from Saudi Arabia to use it's airspace to attack Iran. Disturbing times for the area. The question is, will they receive military support from the US or anyone else?


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    #79
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Keep us posted on how that long range missile Iran are testing to-morrow goes D.

    Will be at a conference.


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    #80
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Keep us posted on how that long range missile Iran are testing to-morrow goes D.

    Hopefully it goes well. Iran should do whatever necessary to defend itself against an attack.


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    #81
    OK-Cancel-Apply
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,528 ✭✭✭OK-Cancel-Apply


    Iran is undoubtedly preparing for Israel's inevitable attack, which will come under the pretext of pre-emptive action against nuclear facilities.

    Wasn't it strange watching that ignoramus Sarkozy ranting and raving about Iran's 'nukes', and what the world should do, when Israel has undeclared nukes and has NOT signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty? He raised all the fingers of his hand to underscore the alleged 5 times Iran has ignored UN resolutions since 2005. He'd need the hands of his whole delegation to show Israel's 65 ignored resolutions.

    What tragic double standards. The whole point of that conference was to try and throw the spotlight onto Iran again. I think we are in for more war and bloodshed.


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    #82
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »
    Wasn't it strange watching that ignoramus Sarkozy ranting and raving about Iran's 'nukes', and what the world should do, when Israel has undeclared nukes and has NOT signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty? He raised all the fingers of his hand to underscore the alleged 5 times Iran has ignored UN resolutions since 2005. He'd need the hands of his whole delegation to show Israel's 65 ignored resolutions.

    What tragic double standards. The whole point of that conference was to try and throw the spotlight onto Iran again. I think we are in for more war and bloodshed.

    And the further hypocrisy of the whole situation is France assisted Israel with it's nuclear weapons.


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    #83
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Hopefully it goes well. Iran should do whatever necessary to defend itself against an attack.

    "Whatever necessary"???
    Is there a limit to this no-holds-barred advocation for destruction of yours then or did you have anything in particular in mind?
    Quite surprising this statement of yours is given that you seem to have allegedly been posting on a stance of human rights and justice etc


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    #84
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »
    Wasn't it strange watching that ignoramus Sarkozy ranting and raving about Iran's 'nukes', and what the world should do, when Israel has undeclared nukes and has NOT signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty? He raised all the fingers of his hand to underscore the alleged 5 times Iran has ignored UN resolutions since 2005. He'd need the hands of his whole delegation to show Israel's 65 ignored resolutions
    Yes it was a showpiece to show solidarity against Iran and wrongfully so, in my opinion. Pretty trite efforts at rhetoric and intent by Obama and Brown etc. as well as the populist from Iran too.
    If you're talking up the clout of UN resolutions when discussing Israel, why does #181 keep getting ignored though? Is one more correct than another?


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    #85
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Justind wrote: »
    "Whatever necessary"???
    Is there a limit to this no-holds-barred advocation for destruction of yours then or did you have anything in particular in mind?
    Quite surprising this statement of yours is given that you seem to have allegedly been posting on a stance of human rights and justice etc

    Whatever necessary means, the appropriate amount of force necessary in order to repel an Israeli attack. Don't read between the lines when there is nothing to read.

    There is nothing surprising about my statement nor is there anything surprising about the hyperbole you are creating for me stating that Iran has the right to defend itself against an attack.


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    #86
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Whatever necessary means, the appropriate amount of force necessary in order to repel an Israeli attack. Don't read between the lines when there is nothing to read.

    When you say the above in a line that wishes Iran well with programme, what degree of "necessary" force had you in mind?


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    #87
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Justind wrote: »
    When you say the above in a line that wishes Iran well with programme, what degree of "necessary" force had you in mind?

    Perhaps a glance at a dictionary would explain the meaning of the word necessary. The required amount. Anything less would result in defeat, anything more would result in gross loss of civilian life.

    Do you dispute that a country has the right to defend itself?


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    #88
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Perhaps a glance at a dictionary would explain the meaning of the word necessary. The required amount. Anything less would result in defeat, anything more would result in gross loss of civilian life
    Ignoring the smugness of that reply, I'd say you're suggesting tit-for-tat then?
    dlofnep wrote: »
    Do you dispute that a country has the right to defend itself?
    Threatening its neighbours isn't "defence" and neither is working clandestinely within those neighbours' (and other countries') boundaries as you regularly point out certain western countries do (US, UK, France and USSR/Russia).

    I'll watch out for your protests this week then. I work across the road from the Israeli embassy and down the road from the US'. Shall give you a wave and a solidarity salute.


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    #89
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »
    Iran is undoubtedly preparing for Israel's inevitable attack, which will come under the pretext of pre-emptive action against nuclear facilities.

    Wasn't it strange watching that ignoramus Sarkozy ranting and raving about Iran's 'nukes', and what the world should do, when Israel has undeclared nukes and has NOT signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty? He raised all the fingers of his hand to underscore the alleged 5 times Iran has ignored UN resolutions since 2005. He'd need the hands of his whole delegation to show Israel's 65 ignored resolutions.

    What tragic double standards. The whole point of that conference was to try and throw the spotlight onto Iran again. I think we are in for more war and bloodshed.

    Iran's ruled by Muslim fanatics! The Ayatollahs have brutally suppressed any democratic freedom in Iran, they've opressed women, murdered minorities, journalists, and anyone who speaks out. And you want them to have nukes?


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    #90
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Justind wrote: »
    Ignoring the smugness of that reply, I'd say you're suggesting tit-for-tat then?

    I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. That's generally how it works - when one nation attacks another sovereign nation, it responds - creating a tit-for-tat effect, which is otherwise known as war.
    Justind wrote: »
    Threatening its neighbours isn't "defence" and neither is working clandestinely within those neighbours' (and other countries') boundaries as you regularly point out certain western countries do (US, UK, France and USSR/Russia).


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7440472.stm

    A top Israeli official has said that if Iran continues with its alleged nuclear arms programme, Israel will attack it.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,133899,00.html

    JERUSALEM — Israel will consider "all options" to prevent Iran from producing nuclear weapons, Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz said in an interview published Wednesday, marking the latest in a series of Israeli threats against Iran's nuclear program.

    http://www.democracynow.org/2003/12/22/iran_signs_protocol_on_surprise_inspections

    As Iran agrees to allow UN inspectors into the country to examine suspected nuclear sites, Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz has begun publicly discussing a possible Israeli attack on Iran to destroy Iran’s nuclear capability.

    Did you miss these? Israel seems to be the one dishing out all the threats. I've only seen Iran state that it will attack, IF Israel attacks it first. Does the hypocrisy of one nation who hides it's nuclear weapons to the world, trying to dictate on whether another sovereign nation can or cannot develop nuclear fuel not reach you?


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    #91
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    anonymous_joe wrote: »
    Iran's ruled by Muslim fanatics! The Ayatollahs have brutally suppressed any democratic freedom in Iran, they've opressed women, murdered minorities, journalists, and anyone who speaks out. And you want them to have nukes?

    Israel is ruled by Zionist fanatics. What's the difference? Israel already has 150 nuclear weapons. There is no evidence to suggest that Iran has any nuclear weapons. Why no public outcry for Israel's undisclosed nuclear weaponry? The same Israel which has recently committed war crimes in Palestine.


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