Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.

Irish Language - should it be a compulsary school subject?

2»

Comments

  • #32
    Joey the lips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_language

    Very interesting article. Especially about the numbers of people.

    On learing stuff that is useful! There is a thought! I know all the major rivers of south america. I know all the mountains of france. I know all the industrial areas of germany and I even know the cheese making areas of italy.

    Guess what. I will all prob never go to south america. I never climbed a mountain in france. I will never work in germany and i prefere irish cheese to most.

    But when I am in a pub and an american or a frenchman or a german askes me why I cannot speak irish to the point of conversation I never feel as low as at this moment.


  • #33
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    @Micilin Muc, you are completely missing the point of the thread. You are speaking of people who voluntarily speak Irish, of people voluntarily learning it at nights and of the Irish diaspora who are voluntarily learning and speaking it. This thread is not about them, its about the non-voluntarily teaching of Irish.

    Now, what are these advantage of being bilingual?

    Tbh Im being accused of being short sighted but I find that hard to stomach from people who think learning Irish is more important than learning French. Its not just about going to work in France, its about being able to converse with people there you encounter in the course of employment. Its about being willing to go to France for conferences. I fail to see how the only employment based advantage is actually working there full time.

    And of course that fact ye fail to realize that Spanish is one of the most spoken languages in the World, and spoken in many many (many) more places than Spain. As is French. Compare with Irish (note how they dont use the world map). I find it frankly ridiculous that people think Irish is more useful than French.

    This is not really central to the point either. The point is that we should have the ability to decide on whether we want to learn.


  • #34
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Joey the lips wrote: »
    On learing stuff that is useful! There is a thought! I know all the major rivers of south america. I know all the mountains of france. I know all the industrial areas of germany and I even know the cheese making areas of italy.

    Good point. Which is why I would never force you not to learn Irish. However the opposite case, where I find Irish totally useless, doesnt seem to matter a bit to yee.
    Joey the lips wrote: »
    But when I am in a pub and an american or a frenchman or a german askes me why I cannot speak irish to the point of conversation I never feel as low as at this moment.

    So your solution ... make everyone do it?


  • #35
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    As someone who's been actively involved in the Gaeilge scene here in my city and college, I'd like to give my input.

    It seems, the more I read, and listen to people's concerns - the more I change my opinion on what the best practice is for the Irish language in schools. My answer will never be the same. What I say now may not be my opinion in a year from now, I can only tell you on what I've experienced so far.

    Firstly, I am an Irish speaker and use it every day. I took the onus on learning the language myself 3 (ish) years ago. Not once has it ever been a chore for me to learn; in fact quite the opposite. Learning it of my own accord has been quite rewarding. I studied it by reading books, and setting up a conversational group in my city - which simply involved a couple of pints once a week, with the conversation operated in Gaeilge. It was a really relaxed environment, and everybody was at ease with using the language - regardless of whether they could only utter a few basic phrases, or were fluent.

    I think there is an issuing in schooling. I don't think the fact that it is compulsory is entirely the issue however, but rather how the curriculum is taught. I firmly believe in more time allocated to conversation, rather than poetry and such.

    I don't believe the Irish language should be an academic subject in secondary. I think it should be cultural, with the option of taking exams if your course requires it to get into University. This takes all the pressure off the language, and gets people to enjoy it more. That's the real issue here. Having fun. Of all the people I have spoken to who disliked the language - the constant thing that kept coming up is that they felt the language is forced down their throats.. for lack of better words.

    For these people, I think if the classes were more fun and involved less stress due to optional exams, they would have more time to focus on subjects they enjoyed - but also, perhaps even turn their distaste for the language into a genuine liking of the language. Not only that, but if it was more conversational focused - people would actually be able to speak it! And this is surely the most important issue. I think many people have a very valid gripe with not being able to speak the language after X amount of years - so teach it right, and let them have the ability to use it. Then they may not consider it such a waste of time.

    I never thought much of Irish in school. It wasn't until I saw it in a relaxed environment that I began to enjoy it. I think this is key.

    I think if we remove it completely from mandatory curriculum, it will do harm to the language. But I think if we remove mandatory exams and revamp the curriculum to teach solely conversational Irish, then it can only help the language and remove pressure from students.

    You'll find minority languages supported by Governments all across the world.


  • #36
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Also, I don't think we should take a defensive stance with Turgon - We should listen to his gripes, because they are shared by quite a few people. This will help better the Irish language in the long run I feel. If you ignore those who have problems, how will you make it better?


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,940 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    @ turgon,
    is 13 really an age where you can make a decision like that?? when i was that age i'm pretty sure i hated maths, business studies, mechanical drawing... to name a few, but i just got on with it. 2 of them were my favourite by a mile at leaving cert stage, as was irish. so it should be compulsory. just like english and maths are. if you don't like it after junior cert, you can always knock down to foundation and give it the attention you think it deserves.


    @dlofnep, can you pm me info on the meeting up?? a buddy of mine is looking to learn irish to a conversational level and i think an informal situation would suit her perfectly. mile buiochas!


  • #38
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    ballsymchugh wrote: »
    @dlofnep, can you pm me info on the meeting up?? a buddy of mine is looking to learn irish to a conversational level and i think an informal situation would suit her perfectly. mile buiochas!

    Sure.


  • #39
    lizzyvera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 462 ✭✭lizzyvera


    cici81 wrote: »
    I believe that a lot of the snobbery has gone out of Irish, which is also great. I used to be afraid to speak Irish in front of fluent speakers before, for fear I'd say it wrong, now I believe there's much more of a "try it anyway" attitude.

    I found the absolute opposite. I use to like Irish enough and have close relatives on the Aran Islands and only talk Irish to them, so my Irish is ok. I am going out with someone from Donegal, and they completely turn their noses up to my attempts, particularly since I am from Dublin. I regret every hour I spent learning it so I could communicate with these pig-headed hicks.

    Luckily languages came easily to me so it wasn't a huge amount of work, and it was useful for LC points because the literature was so vapid it didn't require any intellectual thought. Other than that, total waste of time. I didn't gain anything from it, whereas I gained a lot from studying music and Spanish in school even though I went on to study science in university, because they stayed with me for life.


  • #40
    lizzyvera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 462 ✭✭lizzyvera


    dlofnep wrote: »

    I think there is an issuing in schooling. I don't think the fact that it is compulsory is entirely the issue however, but rather how the curriculum is taught. I firmly believe in more time allocated to conversation, rather than poetry and such.

    I don't believe the Irish language should be an academic subject in secondary. I think it should be cultural, with the option of taking exams if your course requires it to get into University. .

    You are forgetting the points system. It's already a very simple course at higher level, probably even easier than English due to the literature being so childish. I often thought I was analysing the work more than the authors had!

    I would have been bored stiff by a conversation class because I could already converse. It would have been a complete waste of my time.

    We didn't do the set course, we did the chosen one so we could study the "greats" like O Riordan, O Cadhain and O Direain (and some rubbish ones I can't remember- they were actually good). It wasn't as interesting as the English course, but it was certainly more interesting than talking about my hobbies. There are already about 25% of the marks going for conversation. Any diligent student would be motivated by that.

    You can't blame the education system for everything. Some students have bad attitudes and are lazy and won't learn. I wasn't lazy, I wasted my time learning a useless language well.

    It would be even more useless to me now than it was then- they don't have words in Irish for most of the things I work on or study or talk about with scientists.


  • #41
    The Big Red Button
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭The Big Red Button


    I think that every primary and secondary school in the country should be obliged to offer Irish at least as a subject choice, right up to Leaving Certificate level.

    However I don't think that every student in the country should be forced to study Irish, particularly given the fact that the country is becoming so multicultural. Obviously students that didn't want to learn Irish in primary school would have to be facilitated by running another language class at the same time as Irish is being taught, and I can't realistically see the resources being available for that any time soon.

    In my opinion, from when children start primary school, they should study two languages apart from English (whether these languages are French, German, Irish etc would be up to the school) as this would help develop their learning and language skills and make it easier for them to learn additional languages later in life.


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    FruitLover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭FruitLover


    Joey the lips wrote: »
    But when I am in a pub and an american or a frenchman or a german askes me why I cannot speak irish to the point of conversation I never feel as low as at this moment.

    So go and learn it then, no-one is stopping you. What has this got to do with the point of the thread?


  • #43
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    lizzyvera wrote: »
    You are forgetting the points system. It's already a very simple course at higher level, probably even easier than English due to the literature being so childish. I often thought I was analysing the work more than the authors had!

    And what's to stop the point system being revised? Irish is not easy for everyone. Some people are quick to learn a language, others aren't. You're downplaying other people's struggles with learning a second language to be honest.
    lizzyvera wrote: »
    I would have been bored stiff by a conversation class because I could already converse. It would have been a complete waste of my time.

    The vast majority of people can't converse. Why should your attention span hinder people from actually learning to speak the language? Do you suggest they stick with the same nonsense that has left people without the ability to strike up a basic conversation for the past few decades? Because I don't. I believe in major reform, infact reform isn't even apt - it needs a complete overhaul.
    lizzyvera wrote: »
    You can't blame the education system for everything. Some students have bad attitudes and are lazy and won't learn.

    You can't by default - but when the overwhelming majority of people can't speak a language after 13-14 years of learning it, then you absolutely can. Like it or not, the current Irish educational system has failed the public. It needs to be revised, not only in curriculum but in the way it's perceived.

    To be honest, your posts smack of elitism. Calling people "pig-headed hicks" and boasting on about how great you are isn't an ideal way to tackle this subject on any sort of functional level.


  • #44
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    In the interests of keeping the broadest possible curriculum early in secondary education, I think it should be compulsory to Junior Certificate level, but optional at Leaving Certificate. By the time a student gets to about 15-16 years old and is selecting subjects for Leaving Cert, they know (roughly) where their interests lie and they shouldn't be forced to study a subject that many students have no interest in or aptitude for.

    Personally - I got an A2 in ordinary level Irish in the LC. Did honours up to the mocks in 6th year, realised I was fighting a losing battle and decided to sacrifice it to concentrate on my other 7 subjects (I am not linguistically minded at all). I hated every minute that I wasted learning the language, and if I'd had the choice I'd have preferred to have taken either Japanese or another science subject. The subject is taught horribly in schools, there is not enough emphasis on practical communication and far too much on the literature - which is a bit of a waste of time, who cares if you can quote poetry if you can barely tell someone your name and age in the language?


  • #45
    lizzyvera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 462 ✭✭lizzyvera


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Calling people "pig-headed hicks" and boasting on about how great you are isn't an ideal way to tackle this subject on any sort of functional level.

    I was talking about people I met in one region, and they were pig-headed hicks and I stand by that. Obviously I wasn't referring to my family in the west (which is why it came easily to me, not because I'm great, which you're saying I said, even though I mentioned that I spent summers speaking Irish, which was just nastiness on your part, but enough of that)

    Maybe ordinary level could be just conversation, essays and comprehensions. I really don't think that would be suitable for higher level LC after 12 years of learning the language. That would be the same level as is expected after 6 years learning a European language.

    I do think the literature section of the JC could be removed because some people don't know the future tense etc at that stage.

    But as for LC, some people are actually interested in the language and literature and culture. It wouldn't really be right to just have a conversational subject for them, they wouldn't learn anything and so it would be a waste of students' time and taxpayers' money. Some people speak it as a first language, and a conversation-based course for them would be a complete joke.

    I really don't like proposals to dumb down our education. It's already poor enough, universities are constantly complaining that none of us come out of secondary school knowing how to think or work hard. Let people who genuinely like Irish do the interesting parts and let people who want to do something else like physics or metalwork forget about genitive cases and Ireland-back-in-the-day stories.


  • #46
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    lizzyvera wrote: »
    Maybe ordinary level could be just conversation, essays and comprehensions. I really don't think that would be suitable for higher level LC after 12 years of learning the language. That would be the same level as is expected after 6 years learning a European language.

    Wouldn't be suitable for higher level LC? The object of language study is to teach someone how to use the language. I've seen people who did honours Irish for the LC and can just about string about a conversation.

    You're overlooking the importance of language immersion, as it is the most important aspect of learning a language. It is vital for all students, and the best process for language immersion is conversational classes.

    More elitism to be honest.
    lizzyvera wrote: »
    It wouldn't really be right to just have a conversational subject for them, they wouldn't learn anything and so it would be a waste of students' time and taxpayers' money.

    What? :confused:

    They would learn how to speak the language. How would they not learn anything? Learning how to speak a language is much more important than memorizing a poem. I don't think they should all be removed completely - just much more weight towards conversational Irish.
    lizzyvera wrote: »
    Some people speak it as a first language, and a conversation-based course for them would be a complete joke.

    And you'll find the majority of these people who speak it as a first language in An Ghaeltacht - where their schooling is through the Irish medium.

    So on that logic - what you're really saying is, scrap the idea of conversational classes, that will actually give students the ability to speak the language, because one or two kids from the Gaeltacht or who's parents are from the Gaeltacht might find the level of Irish less challenging? And what - forgo the improved level of fluency for 99% of the other students?

    Nonsense.

    lizzyvera wrote: »
    I really don't like proposals to dumb down our education.

    Conversational classes aren't "dumbing down" education. They are improving it. I'm speaking from experience as a person who learned more functional Irish in 3 years, meeting with a conversational group once a week for 2 hours - than I ever did in 13 years of school.

    lizzyvera wrote: »
    It's already poor enough

    Yes it is poor, but adding focus on conversational Irish isn't going to make it poorer.
    lizzyvera wrote: »
    universities are constantly complaining that none of us come out of secondary school knowing how to think or work hard.

    How is adding focus to conversational Irish going to alter one's ability to work or think hard? Seriously, explain.


  • #47
    lizzyvera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 462 ✭✭lizzyvera


    Maybe my school was weird... city centre, waaaaaay away from any gaeltacht and the honours class could speak Irish quite well. I thought that was normal after eight years of learning conversational Irish in primary school and three years of grammar and comprehension for JC. Your proposal would definitely be a dumbing down compared to what we did. We already spoke Irish in the class. Is Irish not compulsary in primary schools anymore? Is it given less time? I think they do science and everything now.

    I can't remember exactly the marks break down, but it actually was mostly a language exam. There was an oral, an aural, an essay on something topical, comprehensions, about ten poems and three or four stories you had to read in advance. Most of that was learning to use the language. The analysis of the literature wasn't anything like you were expected to do in English. I think it was only worth about a third of the marks.

    A change in classroom teaching and not the exam is probably all that's needed. Speaking it more in the class. Grants to go to the gaeltacht etc. I think the exam is a good measure of work. If it was purely language it would be an A1 on a plate for anyone who can speak it.


  • #48
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    lizzyvera wrote: »
    Your proposal would definitely be a dumbing down compared to what we did.

    No, it wouldn't. It would focus on the most important aspect of the language and environment for the language, which has been seriously neglected in education.

    It has been proven that the most functional way to learn a language is through language immersion - conversational classes provide for this. The fact that I took on board more Irish in 3 years spending 1 night a week with a conversational group than I did throughout 13 years of education is very telling.

    The educational system doesn't work. This isn't a myth or a rumour, or even my opinion - it's a fact, and is seen every year in schools across the state. The fact that the majority of people can't converse even partially-fluent after the leaving cert is a clear indication that something needs to change.

    People want to learn how to speak the language, and use it in a real situation. There is seriously no point in spending weeks memorizing poetry when you can barely converse about even the most simple topics.


  • #49
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    As regards the issue that has cropped up in the last page about where the focus should be. When I think of learning a language fully I think of being able to immerse myself in people who speak that language and be able to communicate with them fully. I dont see how the focus could be otherwise because a language is fundamentally a means by which to communicate.

    lizzyvera: I would consider your case about 1 or 2 in a 100. The people who scored high in LC Irish in my school didn't know how to speak in Irish, but they certainly knew how to reel off their teachers opinion on the state of the Irish health service. I went through Irish for 14 years and I cant speak it. Simply because by the time I was going into secondary school the focus had shifted from conversation to technical details and Irish literature. Which bore no relevance to me, so I slacked off.

    In this regard perhaps the solution would be to have 2 Irish courses: "Irish conversational" and "Irish literature and advanced communication". Within terms of our current system the former would be compulsory and the later voluntary for those who, like you, enjoy studying Irish literature.

    At the end of the day one of the main reasons I argue against compulsory Irish is because 14 have served me nothing except perhaps to ask where the toilet it.


  • #50
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Kudos to dlofnep for his post, which was the best from someone arguing for the current system.

    Now obviously he has taken great pleasure out of Irish and the question to be asked is that if we had proper curricula, where people left school with the ability to speak Irish, how many more would get such pleasure? Obviously quite a large amount. However, does this justify making everyone do it? And as a sub question, if it were voluntary how do we ensure those who would enjoy it end up doing it?

    There are various stages at which one could make Irish voluntary. I think there is no reason why we cant make Irish at leaving cert level voluntary. At this stage the student has gone through 11 years of Irish already, and if they cant speak it now they wont be able to at the end of 2/3 years of exam orientated learning. Also, at 15 or 16, they are probably old enough to gauge their own desire. Like other subjects, they can evaluate their choice based on whether they enjoyed the previous few years.

    Given too that their choice would be based on their own level of Irish, the onus would be on the DoE to provide good Irish teaching as a necessary mechanism for encouraging students to continue.

    Side point: dlofnep brought up having Irish as a non-exam subject. This, imo, would never work. I did my LC in 2008, and the atmosphere of modern day LC is just to get the best points possible so as to get into Uni/other future. From my own personal experience, I only put work into the subjects which would count for points. So if it were a non-exam subject, why would students bother? Unless of course they had a genuine love of the subject, in which case they would choose it voluntarily anyway.


  • #51
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    turgon wrote: »
    In this regard perhaps the solution would be to have 2 Irish courses: "Irish conversational" and "Irish literature and advanced communication". Within terms of our current system the former would be compulsory and the later voluntary for those who, like you, enjoy studying Irish literature.

    Yup, I had suggested such an idea before. I think it would be good.
    turgon wrote: »
    At the end of the day one of the main reasons I argue against compulsory Irish is because 14 have served me nothing except perhaps to ask where the toilet it.

    I understand your pain & concerns. All personal feelings aside, do you think you would think differently on Irish if the education was operated in such a way that had given you 100% fluent Irish by the time you finished school, and do you feel that a portion of the stigma is due to you not getting your bang for your buck persay?


  • Advertisement
  • #52
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    dlofnep wrote: »
    All personal feelings aside, do you think you would think differently on Irish if the education was operated in such a way that had given you 100% fluent Irish by the time you finished school, and do you feel that a portion of the stigma is due to you not getting your bang for your buck persay?

    Absolutely. Tying it in with my second post above, if I had a good standard of Irish at the end of JC I would probably have been happy keeping it on to LC level. My "Irish being of less use than French" argument is probably based in my Irish being totally useless.


  • #53
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    turgon wrote: »
    Absolutely. Tying it in with my second post above, if I had a good standard of Irish at the end of JC I would probably have been happy keeping it on to LC level. My "Irish being of less use than French" argument is probably based in my Irish being totally useless.

    Yup, and I think that is a valid concern. I understand why you consider Irish useless, because it is to you as a person who cannot speak it. Which is why I'm trying to gear it towards revamping the curriculum to allow people to have more fun learning it, and to actually become fluent so people actually benefit from learning it.

    Until that happens, I think you're 100% right in questioning mandatory Irish. I do ask that you look towards an overhaul to the curriculum instead of removing it fully as a mandatory subject, as I think it will really hit the language hard, and it's just beginning to gain momentum in the last 10 years.

    I think we could all come to a compromise to optional Irish for the LC, or perhaps even - a mandatory conversational class for the LC, but a examinable, literature and so on based class as an optional class.

    How would that sound to you?


  • #54
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Indeed.

    I think one has to pragmatic with these issues, and deciding one morning to make Irish voluntary would do nothing but enrage some people and have others questioning "what if?"

    Any introduction of optional Irish would have to start from the top down, that is, start removing mandatory Irish at LC and then move downwards. The downward shift only occuring if it could be reasonably proven that those who would benefit would be willing to take it after primary school (the choice here obviously being taken by the parents at the end of the day).

    In terms of the compromise (which should at least be tried before making LC Irish fully voluntary), I would have the conversational class still count for points but only for the amount of points allocated to pass subjects. The literature class could count as normal then. I think one needs to give something with which to motivate students, and LC points certainly do this.


  • #55
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    That's fair enough. I guess it could be argued about motivation versus enjoyment.


  • #56
    Greyfox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    ballsymchugh wrote: »
    you should hate english too, by the looks of that!!

    Theirs no need to be so silly and childish, perfect English isn't needed when everyone understands and uses the same language!


  • #57
    Greyfox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    pog it wrote: »
    If you hate the Irish language that's your problem mate. There will always be people like you who hate it. And there is no use trying to argue otherwise with people on both sides of this.

    Look it, there are people too who hate French, Maths, etc. and who won't need to use the level of maths they've achieved by first year even, so let them decide at 13 whether they want to keep on Maths shall we?

    13 year olds should absolutely not have the choice to drop any subject- that is way too young. Would you want to shelve these responsiblities on your own kids, right out of national school? ! Maybe you would, but I definitely wouldn't. But we are on completely different sides of this argument.

    I never said I had a problem with hating it, I think it's more of a case of us Irish asking ourselves why do so many people hate Irish? I'm just entitled to my opinion like everyone else. For those who love it fair play to you's. I'm just making the point that I believe making it compulsory makes some people hate the language. Do you know French, Spanish or German people that hate their language, of course you don't so why do we continue to force some adults into hating Irish?

    Eh French is optional in secondary school and it would make so sense whatsoever to make maths optional! At 13 I knew Irish was useless to me so I should of been able to get my parents permission to drop it!


  • #58
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    I think it should be mandatory up to Junior Cert - the way a lot of subjects that might not seem necessary are (e.g. history, geography). This would give the student a fairly good idea of whether they like it enough to pursue it further.


  • #59
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    dlofnep wrote: »

    I think if we remove it completely from mandatory curriculum, it will do harm to the language. But I think if we remove mandatory exams and revamp the curriculum to teach solely conversational Irish, then it can only help the language and remove pressure from students.

    You'll find minority languages supported by Governments all across the world.

    It's a nice idea but it wouldn't work in practice. Think of a leaving cert student; stressed out about all their exams, panicked about college/points etc, try get them to take a non-exam subject seriously.

    I did ordinary Irish for leaving cert and towards the end of 6th year I mainly studied other subjects during the class. You'd need two classes - one for exam and one for non-exam.

    As regards revamping the exam I'd say just teach it exactly like french/german/spanish

    What damage do you see optional Irish for leaving cert doing?


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement