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M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

12357…170

Comments

  • #202
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    MYOB wrote: »
    Here, on another thread you go off on because the M7 ISN'T feeding every town along the old national route. Can you have some consistency please?


    When accusing someone of saying something please back it up with sources. Oh and if you really want to make another rant at me, why don't you go the appropriate thread.

    Funny how you always goad at me so pubically on this forum. I'm not going to judge you though:)

    Now I gave the respect to at least answer you and that will be now my last final answer to that.


  • #203
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,538 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    mysterious wrote: »
    When accusing someone of saying something please back it up with sources. Oh and if you really want to make another rant at me, why don't you go the appropriate thread.

    Funny how you always goad at me so pubically on this forum. I'm not going to judge you though:)

    Now I gave the respect to at least answer you and that will be now my last final answer to that.


    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61229332&postcount=93 and your replies to replies. You whimper that the towns on the old route don't get served by the new one, stomp your feet and generally cry about it.


  • #204
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Mysterious, can we have the Mxxx straightened out between Clonmel and Cahir and by lunchtime please !!!


  • #205
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Mysterious and MYOB, desist from the acrimonious tete-a-tete please.


  • #206
    asdasd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭asdasd


    Cripes. There is no need for a motorway on the Limerick Waterford route. It is not as if motorways need to go past every single town in the country to be considered served by the motorway. As far as i know you can from Clonmel (for instance) without hitting another town all the way to Cork, and soon to Dublin. 95% of the distance motorway. Once the M9 comes online there will be two routes to Dublin. The motorways will be either 10 miles away, or 30 miles away. Carrick is closer to the M9 , and further away from the M8 but you can drive to the M9 near Waterford, or Kilkenny. On completion, I mean.

    In effect both these towns are served by motorways, then, and Cahir is on the motorway. The road needs to be upgraded on the way to Tipp town ( which is what - 20 miles from the M8?) , but that is it. The Tipp towns have their motorways.


  • #207
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    mysterious wrote: »
    The M6, and M1 in England are the same.
    Yes, and look at all the widening schemes these major motorways have had to go through, something ridiculous like 5 or 6 lanes on parts of the M1.

    You can argue rationalisation, but I wouldn't use England as an example of a success story of this.


  • #208
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    MYOB wrote: »
    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61229332&postcount=93 and your replies to replies. You whimper that the towns on the old route don't get served by the new one, stomp your feet and generally cry about it.

    The interchange "already exists there" There is one interchange for 24 miles and it has no access to the south of it.


    Totally different argument.


    Agrees with Furet. No if you don't mind I have to get a bus in about 10 minutes:p


  • #209
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    Yes, and look at all the widening schemes these major motorways have had to go through, something ridiculous like 5 or 6 lanes on parts of the M1.

    You can argue rationalisation, but I wouldn't use England as an example of a success story of this.


    It serves populations of around 30 million that's why. Ireland has a very high amount of motorways but none of them work efficiently or are integrated. The M1 could handle the 4 inter urbans combined and it will still be half empty.


  • #210
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    mysterious wrote: »
    It serves populations of around 30 million that's why. Ireland has a very high amount of motorways but none of them work efficiently or are integrated. The M1 could handle the 4 inter urbans combined and it will still be half empty.

    Our motorway network will be very efficient when its complete and I dont mean just the inter urbans under construction. I also include the M20, M18 and M17 into this. They may have low levels of AADT but they are future proofed. Look at the German motorway network with several alternative routes available


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  • #211
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,538 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    mysterious wrote: »
    The interchange "already exists there" There is one interchange for 24 miles and it has no access to the south of it.


    Totally different argument.


    Agrees with Furet. No if you don't mind I have to get a bus in about 10 minutes:p

    Its an identical argument - in one thread you argue that we need to serve all areas served by the former primary, allowing local traffic on; and in this one you state that we don't, that the route is stragetic and long distance. You have no consistent standing on the matter.


  • #212
    cjpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭cjpm


    corktina wrote: »
    and Limerick the third....what a shame they built the M8 rather than a combination of M7 and M20....two motorways either side of a little mountain range is laughable.

    Few reasons why the M20 is a better route

    1 North South is the shortest route between Cork & Limerick

    2 It caters for the traffic from all the towns on the N20

    3 This way all the Charlevelle, Croom, and Limerick traffic do not end up at the Dunkettle Interchange

    4 It's relatively flat except the section south east of Mallow

    5 17km of the proposed is online with the current N20


    Does anyone think it will ever be built?!??


  • #213
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    cjpm wrote: »
    Does anyone think it will ever be built?!??

    It will be built.

    When is the question. I reckon we could be looking at an opening between 2016 and 2020 judging by the present circumstances. I have strong doubts it'll be done by 2015 (as promised under "Transport 21")


  • #214
    cjpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭cjpm


    Appearently there was a massive meeting in Rathduff last week about it. Few of the designers and big guns from the NRDO were in attendance. It went on for 4 hours from what i heard, huge opposition to the current layout through the village and the the parallel roads.......

    Big attendance from Bweeng too as they will have to travel to Rathduff to access the M20, currently they get on the N20 200m south of the stag (statue) and so they don't have to go through Grenagh or Rathduff

    Is a Motorway order the same as the CPO or is it done before the CPO is done??

    Will this get to M. Order or CPO stage in 2009 or 2010??


  • #215
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Everybody calm down . CPO publication is maybe a year away and that if they are efficient .

    Large meetings like that one do lead to variances in the final design in fairness. From the final design the land take may be ascertained and then there is a bit of haggling before the CPOs are researched and published . Haggling is often farmers doing land swaps etc .

    Crudely I would see the schedule as , Final Layout Design after local meetings etc etc H2 2009 or H1 2010 , CPO Publication H1 2010 , EIS Published H1 2010 .

    AnBordP hearing mid-late mid 2010 after EIS is published . AnBordP publish consent/variances H1 2011 which will require some fiddling with the final design and with the land grab .

    No archaeology has been started either . ( forgot that bit) but that follows EIS publication. Archaeology is a summer sport in Munster...like hurling .

    Final design and CPO taking EIS and AnBordP into account H2 2011 and fencing it off H2 2011 .

    This road will not be ready to TENDER until H1 2012 meaning that it cannot now be built before 2014 ....even if we did have money to do so

    Then the authorities will spend their time from 2012 to around 2019 looking for cash for the job . Money will appear just in time for the 2019 general election and therefore the road could well open around late 2021 :p


  • #216
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    mysterious wrote: »
    The M1 could handle the 4 inter urbans combined and it will still be half empty.
    We can't take you seriously when you come out with things like this.

    4 Interurbans => at least 20k each. Total = 80k
    Capacity of M1 Motorway = 55,000 veh.

    Half empty? Get real pal.

    Traffic on the 5 interurbans is growing strongly and the current downturn seems to be only causing about a 5-10% drop (figures from NRA's traffic counters). Motorways are needed. One is also needed between Limerick and Cork, not necessarily because of gargantuan volumes, but mainly because the existing road is sh1te and a big upgrade is needed.


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  • #217
    The Word Is Bor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 254 ✭✭The Word Is Bor


    SB, you must remember that the M20 is a fast-track project which will bring it up to ABP Oral Hearing stage. The prelim design, AFAIK, is finished (bar one or two minor ammendments and not forgetting what input ABP might have at the oral hearing!). The EIS is under way. From what I hear it should appear before ABP in the new year (2010, in case you are wondering;) ).


  • #218
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    But the timing is probably true, although a PPP company will build the thing the government havent got the cash to pay for the (significant) CPOs in this project.


  • #219
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    The Word Is Bor wrote: »
    SB, you must remember that the M20 is a fast-track project which will bring it up to ABP Oral Hearing stage. The prelim design, AFAIK, is finished (bar one or two minor amendments and not forgetting what input ABP might have at the oral hearing!). The EIS is under way. From what I hear it should appear before ABP in the new year (2010, in case you are wondering;) ).

    You are right . I searched eTenders again and found these back in 2007 , they include Design AND EIS . Can't find one for Croom - Patrickswell - Adare though but that is a small matter if it can be added to the others .

    As the EIS is under way I knocked a year or a bit more more off my original timeline but i feel it will be late 2011 before everything is done and dusted procedures wise .

    I amended the post above . Fast Track seems to involve one consultant instead of many . I am not sure what ABP does differently in a fast Track but they are seemingly in no rush to arrive at a conclusion .

    The tenders .

    http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=APR082282

    http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=APR082284

    http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=APR082067


  • #220
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    cjpm wrote: »
    Currently they get on the N20 200m south of the stag (statue) and so they don't have to go through Grenagh or Rathduff

    Surely they are not proposing to dig up the current N20 as part of the construction? :confused:


  • #221
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    spacetweek wrote: »
    We can't take you seriously when you come out with things like this.

    4 Interurbans => at least 20k each. Total = 80k
    Capacity of M1 Motorway = 55,000 veh.

    Half empty? Get real pal.

    Traffic on the 5 interurbans is growing strongly and the current downturn seems to be only causing about a 5-10% drop (figures from NRA's traffic counters). Motorways are needed. One is also needed between Limerick and Cork, not necessarily because of gargantuan volumes, but mainly because the existing road is sh1te and a big upgrade is needed.

    I don't expect you too for starters. As I've said before you tend to jump to many hurdles and knock them all down all the way to the finish line and you still don't notice.:D

    In other words. You don't read before you "kneejerk"

    It was the English M1 I was referring too..

    I really hope that makes things clear. I wouldn't be bothered either way if you don't take me seriously or not. I've said this before I have my mind and I use it well. It's none of my business "of how little or more you take my viewpoints into consideration.:D


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  • #222
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Where is that new map I asked you for yesterday Mysterious :p ??


  • #223
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    MYOB wrote: »
    Its an identical argument - in one thread you argue that we need to serve all areas served by the former primary, allowing local traffic on; and in this one you state that we don't, that the route is stragetic and long distance. You have no consistent standing on the matter.

    I've made my point clear. I don't regard people twisting things into an argument. The Point of the M7 was there is an interchange there that has no access from the south side. The interchange is existing, the motorway is existing. No one including me is asking for a motorway to be re routed to other towns.


    The Mallow N20 is well served by the N20 to Cork which is high standard WS2 with some parts 2+! and DC standard.

    I'm discussing a new intergrated motorway network that intergrates the N20, N24, N25 by connecting the large cities into a motorway grid. The route I've selected is never meant to serve every town on it's route, it's not possible.


    They are not the same points. Now I'm going to ignore you from this point on as there is no reasoning with you unless there is an argument. I feel that your stalking me at this point constantly nit picking and finding something negative or judgmental to say.

    Ok well I'm done.


  • #224
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Where is my MAP ????


  • #225
    cjpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭cjpm


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    Surely they are not proposing to dig up the current N20 as part of the construction? :confused:

    Most of the online 17km is just widening of the N20 however there will be some locations where the road may be lowered at crest curves and some of the tighter bends may have to be straightened... all in the name of sight distance for 120kph

    J.P.


  • #226
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    SpongeBob: You've asked that question three times. I suggest you go down the PM route if you must.

    Now, back on topic please.


  • #227
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    mysterious wrote: »
    It was the English M1 I was referring too..

    Which still makes your earlier post incorrect.
    I've made my point clear. I don't regard people twisting things into an argument. The Point of the M7 was there is an interchange there that has no access from the south side. The interchange is existing, the motorway is existing. No one including me is asking for a motorway to be re routed to other towns.

    You haven't made your point clear at all.

    I'm not here to join in whatever so-called "arguments" you and MYOB may be having but you have posted contradictory opinions. You state in this post:
    The route I've selected is never meant to serve every town on it's route

    Yet in the thread MYOB has linked to you're complaining about a lack of access from a tiny town (Newport) to the M7, which, upon further inspection of the matter, is actually more than sufficient for local needs. So which is it?

    At which settlements would you provide interchanges on your proposed Limerick-Galtees motorway?


  • #228
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    Which still makes your earlier post incorrect.


    No it doesn't I said the M1 in England.
    You haven't made your point clear at all.

    I'm not here to join in whatever so-called "arguments" you and MYOB may be having but you have posted contradictory opinions. You state in this post:



    Yet in the thread MYOB has linked to you're complaining about a lack of access from a tiny town (Newport) to the M7, which, upon further inspection of the matter, is actually more than sufficient for local needs. So which is it?

    At which settlements would you provide interchanges on your proposed Limerick-Galtees motorway?

    1. Mallow is well served to Cork.
    2. Newport and the entire sould of the M7 has no access to the M7 fro an "existing" interchange.
    My argument was having an intergrated motorway network that connects all the major settlements with a motorway grid system. This means its not going to follow its old route.


    They are completely different arguements. MYOB argument is trying to link the two as the same. They are not. Because I was discussing inadequate access to an already built motorway. Mallow is on a national route with direct access to Cork. The M7 motorway has only to entrance the Limerick end and the Nenagh end. The Birdhill interchange only has access to Birdhill and the North. The south quadrants of the interchange has no access at all.


    I have no issue with Mallow not having access. My position is having a grid motorway system. Grid motorways systems are not designed to be built along its former route.


    The Existing M7 issue was not having a proper interchange on it's "actual route"


    Now you can all dismiss my point again. It now obvious that its pick and choose what people want negate from my points. This is my final point on this matter. It's getting tiresome that another topic is thrown at me that isn't the dicussion. If anyone still feels upset by my views, please post in the appropriate thread on the matter.


  • #229
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    We are in a completely different position to the UK (and the rest of Western Europe) when it comes to motorway building.

    The UK built hundreds of decent bypasses and road realignments/upgrades long before they even contemplated motorways. That's why motorways are a distinct system in the UK. The 'old roads' had already been upgraded for the most part.

    In Ireland we hadn't a pot to p!ss in for most of our time as an independent nation. It makes sense to build our motorway network as a pretty much direct replacement for our national routes which, for the most part, are or were (before being bypassed) still in a diabolical condition.

    The M20 is the obvious choice. The N20 would need major works ANYWAY even if a non-parallel motorway replacement (as advocated by Mysterious et al) was built instead. No point in duplicating expenditure. Just build the M20 and detrunk the old road to max 80kmh or lower.

    The N24 should be upgraded too, independently of the N20.


  • #230
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    mysterious wrote: »
    No it doesn't I said the M1 in England.
    BluntGuy wrote:
    Which still makes your earlier post incorrect.
    mysterious wrote:
    Mallow is well served to Cork.

    I didn't even mention Mallow. But I wouldn't consider that atrocious 2+1 section to be "well served".
    My argument was having an intergrated motorway network that connects all the major settlements with a motorway grid system. This means its not going to follow its old route.

    This is obvious and I didn't dispute this, it has nothing to do with my point.
    They are completely different arguements. MYOB argument is trying to link the two as the same. They are not. Because I was discussing inadequate access to an already built motorway.

    It doesn't matter whether the motorway is built or not.

    The issue we are discussing is that of "local access". My point was that why did you make an issue out of Newport not getting access (though the access in my view is perfectly adequate), when under your "grid motorway" proposals, towns such as Newport would not receive the type of access to the motorway which you are advocating on the other thread.

    I asked for further clarification when I said this:
    BluntGuy wrote:
    At which settlements would you provide interchanges on your proposed Limerick-Galtees motorway?

    Could you answer that? That would make it far easier to see where you're coming from.
    mysterious wrote:
    This is my final point on this matter. It's getting tiresome that another topic is thrown at me that isn't the dicussion. If anyone still feels upset by my views, please post in the appropriate thread on the matter.

    The questions and points I have raised are perfectly appropiate for this thread. You have given us your alternative to the M20, I am asking you questions about it while using references from another thread to clarify my points. Nobody is "upset" by your views, certainly not me anyway, I'm just curious to know more about where you're coming from and to get some clarification on some of your points. If you can't take the questions, don't post. Simple as.


  • #231
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    I have the original plans for the Mallow - Croom N20 when it was still planned as DC (not motorway). They're totally different from the M20 plans. All I have is the preferred route, and it really is totally different.


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  • #232
    Zoney
    Registered Users Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭Zoney


    murphaph wrote: »
    The UK built hundreds of decent bypasses and road realignments/upgrades long before they even contemplated motorways. That's why motorways are a distinct system in the UK. The 'old roads' had already been upgraded for the most part.

    In Ireland we hadn't a pot to p!ss in for most of our time as an independent nation. It makes sense to build our motorway network as a pretty much direct replacement for our national routes which, for the most part, are or were (before being bypassed) still in a diabolical condition.

    Not only that, but those N roads which had been upgraded are mostly appropriate for what are fairly busy R roads.

    Even though the N20 is atrocious for a *national* road, a lot of the surfacing work, small realignments and signposting (e.g. on bends) does make it a lot more acceptable as an R road as is.


  • #233
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,867 ✭✭✭SeanW


    cjpm wrote: »
    Most of the online 17km is just widening of the N20 however there will be some locations where the road may be lowered at crest curves and some of the tighter bends may have to be straightened... all in the name of sight distance for 120kph

    J.P.
    Wouldn't that put an end to the 'alternate route?' I was under the impression that making "online" motorway upgrades is legally a tricky business.


  • #234
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,538 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    SeanW wrote: »
    Wouldn't that put an end to the 'alternate route?' I was under the impression that making "online" motorway upgrades is legally a tricky business.

    There needs to be an alternative route but there is no legal minimum of the standard. Some of the R road that is the alt route for the new M11 sections is single track!


  • #235
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,034 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    MYOB wrote: »
    There needs to be an alternative route but there is no legal minimum of the standard. Some of the R road that is the alt route for the new M11 sections is single track!

    I'm pretty sure all the redesignated sections have R772 that has been downgraded from old N11 as the alternative route. The parts running parallel to the single track are still green N11.


  • #236
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    Stark wrote: »
    I The parts running parallel to the single track are still green N11.

    I think that is correct. The motorway starts southwards from Coynes Cross. North from there the R772 cuts through a network of single-track grass-in-the-middle local roads before re-emerging onto the old N11 2km further north. The new N11 in this area is non-motorway. It was probably because of this they didn't stretch the motorway designation as far as the Newtown exits. :cool:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R772_road


  • #237
    cjpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭cjpm


    SeanW wrote: »
    Wouldn't that put an end to the 'alternate route?' I was under the impression that making "online" motorway upgrades is legally a tricky business.


    An alternative route is to be constructed adjacent to the M20 wherever there is not a suitable local road.

    So for Blarney to Mallow (online for 17km):

    from Blarney to Rathduff the alternative route is to be the Old Cork Mallow road, 10km

    from Rathduff to Burnfort Cross the alternative is going to be a brand new parallel road, east of the current N20 7km

    from Burnfort Cross to Mallow the motorway is no longer online so the alternative shall be the current N20


    J.P.


  • #238
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Moved to Infrastructure.


  • #239
    cjpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭cjpm


    There's tumbleweed blowing around the M20 thread at this stage!!

    Has it dropped off the NRA's radar totally?? Cork CC were hoping to finish the prelim design i thought....


  • #240
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    We've had a more recent M20 thread here; I'm considering merging that with this.


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  • #241
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Yup...merged.


  • #242
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    I found a map on, I think, a Danish version of Open Street Map. It shows elevation quite well.

    There are bunch of oppurtunities for a merged M20/M24 north of Mitchelstown. However, the current course of the M8 pre-empts some of them. Two options - black (possible) and red (no longer practical).


  • #243
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Victor wrote: »
    I found a map on, I think, a Danish version of Open Street Map. It shows elevation quite well.

    There are bunch of oppurtunities for a merged M20/M24 north of Mitchelstown. However, the current course of the M8 pre-empts some of them. Two options - black (possible) and red (no longer practical).
    Wanna show us?


  • #244
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    I thought I might stick up one photo of the existing M20 ;) as there is no existing M20 progress thread.

    M20 Northbound approaching J2

    DSC02590.jpg


  • #245
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    That looks like a good wiki photo. :)


  • #246
    cjpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭cjpm


    19/10/2009 - 08:56:05
    A man has died following a road crash on the main Cork to Limerick road this morning.

    The two-vehicle collision happened on the N20 between Buttevant and Mallow just after 6am.
    The dead man is believed to have been in his 30s.
    Another man was taken to Mallow Hospital suffering from shock.
    The road where the crash occurred has been closed for technical examination, with motorists being diverted onto other routes.





    According to AA roadwatch this morning, it happened at Ballybeg.

    This road would have been upgraded years ago if Cork East had any good politicians. Ned O'Keeffe only thinks of his own corner, - remember his rant at the parents of Rathcormac N.S.

    Those bends are ridiculous, and frost prone during the winter too. How many more lives must be lost before the NRA do anything about it.


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  • #247
    KerranJast
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    cjpm wrote: »
    19/10/2009 - 08:56:05
    A man has died following a road crash on the main Cork to Limerick road this morning.

    The two-vehicle collision happened on the N20 between Buttevant and Mallow just after 6am.
    The dead man is believed to have been in his 30s.
    Another man was taken to Mallow Hospital suffering from shock.
    The road where the crash occurred has been closed for technical examination, with motorists being diverted onto other routes.





    According to AA roadwatch this morning, it happened at Ballybeg.

    This road would have been upgraded years ago if Cork East had any good politicians. Ned O'Keeffe only thinks of his own corner, - remember his rant at the parents of Rathcormac N.S.

    Those bends are ridiculous, and frost prone during the winter too. How many more lives must be lost before the NRA do anything about it.
    Yeah first thing I thought when I heard about the crash (apart from obviously the misfortunates involved) was the crazy situation with the M20 project. They've just finished build a €500 million bypass of Waterford today which is great for them and all but it's insane that the road between the 2nd and 3rd largest cities in the State is effectively an R-road in large sections.


  • #248
    cjpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭cjpm


    There was a bad crash between Charlivelle and Buttevent on friday evening too.
    Looked pretty horrific but fortunately no one killed on that occasion.


  • #249
    black47
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭black47


    cjpm wrote: »
    19/10/2009 - 08:56:05
    A man has died following a road crash on the main Cork to Limerick road this morning.

    The two-vehicle collision happened on the N20 between Buttevant and Mallow just after 6am.
    The dead man is believed to have been in his 30s.
    Another man was taken to Mallow Hospital suffering from shock.
    The road where the crash occurred has been closed for technical examination, with motorists being diverted onto other routes.





    According to AA roadwatch this morning, it happened at Ballybeg.

    This road would have been upgraded years ago if Cork East had any good politicians. Ned O'Keeffe only thinks of his own corner, - remember his rant at the parents of Rathcormac N.S.

    Those bends are ridiculous, and frost prone during the winter too. How many more lives must be lost before the NRA do anything about it.

    I drove the narrow straight section between Charleveille and Bonogue a few years ago in fog with wife and 3 kids aboard. This lunatic came out of the fog overtaking and coming straight at me. I had nowhere to go but luckily he got back in just in time.

    How can the NRA drop this road upgrade from the PPP list in favour of 2 projects on the substantially finished N11 is beyond me. See below

    http://www.nra.ie/Publications/DownloadableDocumentation/PublicPrivatePartnership/file,16119,en.pdf

    The amount of headstones, flowers and white crosses on the N20 need no further explanation


  • #250
    cjpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭cjpm


    black47 wrote: »
    The amount of headstones, flowers and white crosses on the N20 need no further explanation

    You are right, there have been some amount of fatalities on that road.

    Only for the fact that it lies between Cork North West, Cork East and Limerick South it would have been upgraded years ago, everything comes down to local politics in this damn country.... If there was a government minister pushing for this at any stage it would have been done, and done long ago.

    The blood of all those unfortunate victims is on the NRA's hands by their inaction and shortsightness.


  • #251
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    black47 wrote: »
    The amount of headstones, flowers and white crosses on the N20 need no further explanation

    I remember a particularly effective campaign in Cappataggle in the mid 1990s ( it is west of Aughrim on the current N6)

    The locals got both ends ( not the middle) of a horrific stretch of N6 upgraded by planting white crosses everywhere ( see the end) ....in memory of the 1 person a year killed on that 5 mile stretch stretch over the previous 30 years .

    Even the useless Galway East type of TD was able to get some mileage out of it after all the publicity ( U Burke in that link) , even if that was only 3 miles of realignment out of 5 over the next 4 years. They then decided to build the Motorway and left the rest as is. It was the worst stretch of 'old' N6 bar a similar stretch west of Kinnegad.

    I recommend a particularly large 2m high cross .


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