"Operation Armageddon" in 1969 would have been mass suicide for Irish - STAY ON TOPIC

kumate_champ07 · 01-09-2009 11:39AM

darkman2 wrote: »

Unionist behaviour like in 1969 - oh and we actually have modern anti aircraft weapons now believe it or not. It's not perfect but it is modern and we have tanks and apcs and technology we did not have in 1969 - we even have drones now ffs. We could hold those 6 counties for a while - maybe weeks in a full British assault. And we have democrats back in the White House - maybe we should invade now....:D;)

we also have an Irishman in the whitehouse.

This would actually make a great xbox 360 game!

McArmalite · 01-09-2009 11:47AM

DublinWriter wrote: »

It would seem the original intention was to stop Catholics getting killed.

I find it depressing that these type of debates usually descent into typical misty dew-eyed 'Brits-Out' nationalism; the belief that rainbows would have suddenly appeared and all would have been well had the British ceded control of Northern Ireland to the government of the Republic.

The truth is, even had the British withdrawn, there's approximately 600,000 people indigenous to Northern Ireland who consider themselves British.

The question the 'Brits-Out' brigade need to really ask themselves is 'Am I in favour of ethnic cleansing?' because if the British ever did withdraw, you'd have to do a fair bit of it in order to achieve a United Ireland, or are you one of those nationalists that are naive enough to believe that Unionists are just a little misguided?

Oh Gawd !!!!!! and they were going to slaughter everyone if they didn't get down Garvagh Road, if the Anglo Irish agreement wasn't dropped, if the cap badge of the RUC was changed. They'd have put up as much fight as their brave comrades did in Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan, Leitrim, Dublin (where Carson was from and elected unionists in Trinity, Rathmines in the 1918 election etc )

Donegal is a fine example. It had a considerable unionist population, the eastern half of Donegal may probably have had a unionist majority. The unionists in Donegal were doing as much shouting as the unionists in the rest of the country ( including Dublin where the leader of unionism Edward Carson was from ) of how they'd fight to the last man etc, etc. When britain said - we're going, if you want to have a sectarian bloodbath you'll do it on your own, their wasn't a shot fired out of them.
Indeed it says it all about unionism that the unionists in the north and their ‘ loyalty ‘ abounded their brethren to the 26 counties with not so much as whimper.

Donny5 · 01-09-2009 12:12PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

What does the DF have that will stop a Tornado from dropping a bomb at 20,000 feet? Unless the DF have been shopping when I've not been looking, I don't think there's anything more capable than a PC-9 pilot with more courage than sense.

NTM

They've got Bofors 40mm Cannon and the RBS-70 SAMs, not to mention the Bren in AA mode.

jill_valentine · 01-09-2009 12:17PM

It's been a while since I've actually laughed out loud at a board. The Bren's "AA mode" just means "pointing up."

So, not much use unless the RAF are going to be attacking in the Wright Brother's pedal plane at an altitude of about 25 feet.

Donny5 · 01-09-2009 12:21PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

It's been a while since I've actually laughed out loud at a board. The Bren's "AA mode" just means "pointing up."

So, not much use unless the RAF are going to be attacking in the Wright Brother's pedal plane at an altitude of about 25 feet.

Don't be facetious - the Bren's carrying handle also folds out, enabling comfortable firing from the hip, and with easily enough accuracy to take down the Kaiser's Zeppelins at 100 feet.

robby^5 · 01-09-2009 12:23PM

It's a ridiculious hypothetical, but the RAF and Royal Navy would destroy us.

jill_valentine · 01-09-2009 12:26PM

Donny5 wrote: »

Don't be facetious - the Bren's carrying handle also folds out, enabling comfortable firing from the hip, and with easily enough accuracy to take down the Kaiser's Zeppelins at 100 feet.

Every word of this post is awesome.

WIZE · 01-09-2009 12:27PM

hi all
I dont know if this has been said already but just to give you a heads up !
If Lynch Had Invaded
Documentary exploring how Irish Taoiseach Jack Lynch dealt with the crisis of 12th August 1969. Featuring commentary from Irish Defence Forces Captain Tom Clonan

Tonight at 9:35pm RTE 1

ejmaztec · 01-09-2009 12:34PM

Donny5 wrote: »

They've got Bofors 40mm Cannon and the RBS-70 SAMs, not to mention the Bren in AA mode.

I think that you're forgetting the Trebuchet and the pointy stick.

jill_valentine · 01-09-2009 12:37PM

And slingshots.

Or have ye poor patriots forgotten our mighty victory over the Taliban at the Battle of the Anonymous Californian Carpark, as depicted in Deadliest Warrior?

Hagar · 01-09-2009 12:43PM

What amazes me is that after finding themselves being unable to either launch a land attack or withstand an attack on our territory that the Irish Govt never made anthing better than half-hearted attempt to bring the Defence Forces up to a combat ready standard. Even today we can't defend our shoreline or airspace. Just to put it into perspective the Brits lost 58,000 men on the first day of the battle of the Somme. The whole of the Irish Defence forces would have been wiped out before the morning tea-break.

This is no reflection on the members of the DF, they do their duty, we just need lots more of them with lots more equipment.

WIZE · 01-09-2009 12:44PM

I think if we just asked the British Government for the 6 counties back they work hand it too us . Costs them too much money anyways and it would bankrupt us .

DamoDLK · 01-09-2009 12:47PM

BVB wrote: »

hi all
I dont know if this has been said already but just to give you a heads up !
If Lynch Had Invaded
Documentary exploring how Irish Taoiseach Jack Lynch dealt with the crisis of 12th August 1969. Featuring commentary from Irish Defence Forces Captain Tom Clonan

Tonight at 9:35pm RTE 1

Seriously dude the first post.. c'mon... ffs:eek:

Btw.. still want some one/ anyone to record it and shove some of it on youtube!!!???!!!

Donny5 · 01-09-2009 12:48PM

BVB wrote: »

I think if we just asked the British Government for the 6 counties back they work hand it too us . Costs them too much money anyways and it would bankrupt us .

Just changing all their speed limit signs to km/h would bankrupt us these days.

rossie1977 · 01-09-2009 12:53PM

Hagar wrote: »

This is no reflection on the members of the DF, they do their duty, we just need lots more of them with lots more equipment.

yeah our soldiers are brave lads and lasses, many have seen action in some of the worst places on earth over the past 20 or so years like liberia, somalia etc but lets be serious here our DF are totally outnumbered and outgunned by britain, it would be a massacre, e.g. the flagship of our navy went out in a storm off mayo a few years ago to participate in a rescue operation, they themselves got in trouble and had to call on the british navy to tow them back to ireland

and all this crap about knowing the terrain, this country is relatively flat with a few small hills, what terrain?? its not iran or afganistan with huge 20,000ft mountains where enemies could hide out indefinitely

WIZE · 01-09-2009 01:07PM

DamoDLK wrote: »

Seriously dude the first post.. c'mon... ffs:eek:

Btw.. still want some one/ anyone to record it and shove some of it on youtube!!!???!!!

Seriously dude :rolleyes: If you read all the posts you would see references from dates for 1916 to present and Iraq and Afghanistan

Tordelback · 01-09-2009 01:24PM

I love every word of this thread, but this is the best bit:

We should have gone down the Isreal route of good organisation and promotion...

Not content with decades of low-key bloodshed and misery, let's emulate the most intractable feck-up of them all!

DamoDLK · 01-09-2009 01:33PM

BVB wrote: »

Seriously dude :rolleyes: If you read all the posts you would see references from dates for 1916 to present and Iraq and Afghanistan

All i was saying is that the 1st post said that the doc was on tele tonight..?

But i agree.. the topic went well off point.

WIZE · 01-09-2009 01:42PM

DamoDLK wrote: »

All i was saying is that the 1st post said that the doc was on tele tonight..?

But i agree.. the topic went well off point.

oh yeah . sorry for that:o

ejmaztec · 01-09-2009 01:49PM

They could have overcome the British with a mass nitrous-oxide attack, that would have been a laugh.

Poccington · 01-09-2009 01:54PM

dan719 wrote: »

Eh Britian is like there. Like right there. As I said, the IDF would hold the North for the week it took for full mobilisation of infantry troops. And if you actually look at the IDF equipment, you'll see quite a lot of the weaponary is the same as 1969, and our navy is the Brits 'hand me downs'. I don't see why this is such an issue tbh. You admit that we could never take it by force, yet you still see this as a reasonable approach at some undetermined time in the future? Why? Of what benefit would the blood sacrifice be? Why bother?

So, can you tell me about about the weaponry we're using these days that was on issue back in 1969? Since there's quite a lot of it.

Donny5 · 01-09-2009 02:07PM

Poccington wrote: »

So, can you tell me about about the weaponry we're using these days that was on issue back in 1969? Since there's quite a lot of it.

Did we have GPMGs or 84s back then?

Poccington · 01-09-2009 02:14PM

Donny5 wrote: »

Did we have GPMGs or 84s back then?

We had the GPMG, not too sure about the 84.

Considering they're 2 weapons that are in service in most militaries across the world, including the Brits and Yanks' conventional forces and certainly the Yanks SOF Units, I'm rather glad we decided to hold onto them.

Still don't see how 2 weapons equals quite a lot though.

Hagar · 01-09-2009 02:15PM

The FCA had 84s in in 1973 so it's a fair assumption the Regular Army would have been equipped with them for some time before the FCA got a smell of them so they probably did have them in 1969.

Paddy Samurai · 01-09-2009 02:19PM

At the time that this document was drafted, in September 1969, the Irish Army was seriously under-strength, with a total of 8,113 personnel. While individual troops were relatively well armed with FN 7.62 automatic rifles .

Yea but we did have 100.000 reserves armed with Hurley sticks.

dan719 · 01-09-2009 02:21PM

Poccington wrote: »

So, can you tell me about about the weaponry we're using these days that was on issue back in 1969? Since there's quite a lot of it.

http://www.military.ie/army/equipment/weapons/arty/25pdr/25pound.htm

Poccington · 01-09-2009 02:22PM

dan719 wrote: »

http://www.military.ie/army/equipment/weapons/arty/25pdr/25pound.htm

25 Pounder is no longer in service.

Still waiting to see all this weaponry from the 60's, cause I certainly don't see much in the stores in work.

Donny5 · 01-09-2009 02:25PM

dan719 wrote: »

http://www.military.ie/army/equipment/weapons/arty/25pdr/25pound.htm

The 25 pounder was retired this year, except for ceremonial duties.

About the 84, I'm almost certain they were used during the Siege of Jadotvillem, which was in 1961.

Calibos · 01-09-2009 02:57PM

I love these threads. It really highlights the Walter Mitty's so I know who's posts to ignore on any other subject.

Do you know what is so funny about the loolas going on about the Prods. If you sit them down and ask them about some of the tenets of their faith like Transubstantiation. Firstly they won't know what it means. When you explain that it means that the Communion wafer is the body and blood of Christ, they will invariably agree if prompted that this is one of those biblical metaphors and not literal. Imagine their shock when you tell them that its not a metaphor. Catholics are supposed to believe that this communion wafer has literally been transformed by a supernatural power into the b&b of Christ (Star Trek cloaked so it still looks like a wafer though) upon the priest saying some magic words.

Um, Eh, I didn't know that. Thats a bit silly alright....but I still believe in God and I am still a catholic though!!

Erm...No. You are actually a Protestant my friend

Dr. Baltar · 01-09-2009 03:25PM

Calibos wrote: »

I love these threads. It really highlights the Walter Mitty's so I know who's posts to ignore on any other subject.

Do you know what is so funny about the loolas going on about the Prods. If you sit them down and ask them about some of the tenets of their faith like Transubstantiation. Firstly they won't know what it means. When you explain that it means that the Communion wafer is the body and blood of Christ, they will invariably agree if prompted that this is one of those biblical metaphors and not literal. Imagine their shock when you tell them that its not a metaphor. Catholics are supposed to believe that this communion wafer has literally been transformed by a supernatural power into the b&b of Christ (Star Trek cloaked so it still looks like a wafer though) upon the priest saying some magic words.

Um, Eh, I didn't know that. Thats a bit silly alright....but I still believe in God and I am still a catholic though!!

Erm...No. You are actually a Protestant my friend

The majority of people in this country are de facto Protestants.

"Operation Armageddon" in 1969 would have been mass suicide for Irish - STAY ON TOPIC

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