"I now want to get into teaching" bandwagon

Eccles · 22-08-2009 11:18PM

QUOTE rather than being stressed out in a job with a lot of pressure

Come back and say that in 5 or 10 years time John!!!

livinginkorea · 23-08-2009 04:57AM

kippy wrote: »

Everyone who has been to school has "shadowed" a teacher for a good part of their lives and has a good idea about what the job entails.
Theres far more careers out there where people have far less knowledge of the career before getting into it.

Eventhough we have always seen many teachers in action down through our school years that doesn't mean we know the ins and outs of teaching. We might think that we do but in reality teachers do a hell of a lot more than just standing at the top of the classroom. The main 'complaint' I got when training them (and this may be a cultural difference) is that they don't get respect from students when they start teaching and a huge amount of teachers worldwide quit the profession because of classroom management.

In Korea, a lot of backpackers come here and most don't give a fig about teaching, playing games and generally passing the time as quickly as they can, and the students may be marginally better off than when the 'teacher' came first. It annoys me when some Koreans look at me and expect games and fun and clowning around when I am the exact opposite. For people who want to be real teachers then there will always be a load of blow ins, career wasters who damage our image. I am worried that in Ireland the large increase of people wanting to be a teacher because of the economy and not because they seriously want to be will lead to reduced learning.

lauralee28 · 23-08-2009 06:43AM

livinginkorea wrote: »

Eventhough we have always seen many teachers in action down through our school years that doesn't mean we know the ins and outs of teaching. We might think that we do but in reality teachers do a hell of a lot more than just standing at the top of the classroom. The main 'complaint' I got when training them (and this may be a cultural difference) is that they don't get respect from students when they start teaching and a huge amount of teachers worldwide quit the profession because of classroom management.

In Korea, a lot of backpackers come here and most don't give a fig about teaching, playing games and generally passing the time as quickly as they can, and the students may be marginally better off than when the 'teacher' came first. It annoys me when some Koreans look at me and expect games and fun and clowning around when I am the exact opposite. For people who want to be real teachers then there will always be a load of blow ins, career wasters who damage our image. I am worried that in Ireland the large increase of people wanting to be a teacher because of the economy and not because they seriously want to be will lead to reduced learning.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D(in case ye're curious about times of my posts I'm travelling, 9hours behind)

At last, someone who understands the thread I started and makes a VALID point!

Agent Smith · 23-08-2009 07:32AM

lauralee28 wrote: »

I read a lot of threads/queries posted lately and am baffled/amused at the amount of people who want to "get into secondary teaching with my degree", "branch out into teaching", "become a teacher" etc etc etc............

As someone who is a strong believer that teaching is a vocation, this really grates on me. In the current economic state of the country is teaching now seen as an easy option for people in other professions who suddenly decide they now want to "be a teacher"?

I am not suggesting that a person has no right to change career paths, that is normal and perfectly acceptable. Its just the number of people assuming that their various (a lot of the time non-teaching subject) degrees "qualifies me to teach X,Y,Z".

It frustrates me also to see posters inquire about "shortcuts" into teaching. It seems a lot of people are simply jumping on this bandwagon and it makes me feel slightly demeened as a professional who would never ask "i have a degree in english and history, can anyone tell me if this qualifies me as a nurse? If not can somebody suggest a year long online course that can give me a shortcut into nursing?"

Do these people realise the current job crisis among teachers??????????
Sorry for the rant, but have just read so many similar threads!

3 words

June July August

Toto Wolfcastle · 23-08-2009 12:07PM

Agent Smith wrote: »

3 words

June July August

Oi, read the charter. Constructive posts only. Turn that into a constructive argument and you get your birthday present.

TheDriver · 23-08-2009 12:57PM

On the basis that we won't see any increase in number of jobs for foreseeable future and temp teachers being let go (some of my friends on staff have not had contracts renewed) so if we thought it was bad over last 2 years with teachers trying to get hours after the Dip etc, I can only imagine how much disquiet there will be over the coming 2 years when people start graduating from far over quota teacher training courses. There are little or no jobs out there, fact. So this bandwagon is now a closed door nightclub, you must wait for someone to exit before you can even be considered for entry.

peanuthead · 23-08-2009 01:04PM

difference between wanting to be a teacher and choosing to be one for the sake of it:

Doing my dip next year in a school with this male colleague of mine. I'm out buying my stationery, getting my books together [bought most of them on adverts:D] and he's calling me up saying things like "Okay if we alternate the weeks we go to college, you give me your notes, I give you mine, it will be like we have been there all year"

And the best one yet "When were doing the essays, we can each pick one to research and then give the other a set of our research notes and we can save time doing our essays. Because we'll be doing the same essays" To which I reply. "No, we will we writing on the same topics - not writing the same essays"

What a lazy git??!!! I can't believe I'm going to be shouldered with this idiot all year. There is no way I'm sharing notes with someone who doesn't even have half the enthusuasm I have for the dip. Not to mention the fact that he got this place over someone who would probably really want it.

Dudess · 23-08-2009 01:06PM

I didn't realise this was a newish thing. I thought a lot of people always had the "I want to use my BA for x but if I don't get that, I can always go teaching" attitude.

It is something people need to think long and hard about all right - I've considered it every now and again and had chats with various teachers. There tends to be too much focus on the pluses and not enough on the tougher aspects, which can be in abundance. People who just choose teaching because of the holidays deserve all the grief they get.

TheDriver · 23-08-2009 01:13PM

It has always been there but more so now because of the totally misguided perception that there are teaching jobs. Its somewhat comical that people are complaining about civil service/overstaffed etc yet theres a grand big queue for teaching!
About the Dip Idiot, theres always plenty of them each and every year and some will turn out great, others are wasters. Natural progression will weed all the wasters out.I have seen plenty of people start teaching by subbing thinking it was a grand easy job and to be honest, none of them last.

Dudess · 23-08-2009 01:30PM

Ah, surely the notion there are teaching jobs isn't widespread...? :eek:

doctorwhogirl · 23-08-2009 02:25PM

peanuthead wrote: »

difference between wanting to be a teacher and choosing to be one for the sake of it:

Agree very much with this statement. But I think only the person applying for teaching knows the real answer. We can't just assume that they are jumping on a bandwagon. Even though it does grate on me when someone admits they are doing it on the basis of 'Ah sure teaching would be grand....'

mark renton · 23-08-2009 02:55PM

peanuthead wrote: »

difference between wanting to be a teacher and choosing to be one for the sake of it:

Doing my dip next year in a school with this male colleague of mine. I'm out buying my stationery, getting my books together [bought most of them on adverts:D] and he's calling me up saying things like "Okay if we alternate the weeks we go to college, you give me your notes, I give you mine, it will be like we have been there all year"

And the best one yet "When were doing the essays, we can each pick one to research and then give the other a set of our research notes and we can save time doing our essays. Because we'll be doing the same essays" To which I reply. "No, we will we writing on the same topics - not writing the same essays"

What a lazy git??!!! I can't believe I'm going to be shouldered with this idiot all year. There is no way I'm sharing notes with someone who doesn't even have half the enthusuasm I have for the dip. Not to mention the fact that he got this place over someone who would probably really want it.

now there are 2 ways of viewing this

as already pointed out above - he is a lazy git and you work hard

or - he is very easy going and you may be a little highly strung (hypathetical)

in my experience I have felt that I have learned more from easy going tutors

peanuthead · 23-08-2009 03:12PM

john47832 wrote: »

now there are 2 ways of viewing this

as already pointed out above - he is a lazy git and you work hard

or - he is very easy going and you may be a little highly strung (hypathetical)

in my experience I have felt that I have learned more from easy going tutors

I take your point completely - and yes I would tend to be a little, not highly strung, but lets say I have to be well prepared otherwise I would get stressed. Not very organised but getting better.

But this guy is just downright lazy. We work in a school where, although your subjects are, say, to use previous example, english and history, you may be asked to do the odd bit of maths or irish with 1st years.

He just can't do it. He'll go to the maths and irish teachers and bug them to prepare work for him. Theres nothing wrong with admitting you can't do something and asking for help/guidance, but he's unbelievable. Example:

I have first year Irish, what should I do with them?
Maybe a comprehension or some vocabulary
Where would I get that?
In the first year Irish book
Okay, do you have one of them [we have a room in our school where any teacher can access any book relating to any subject]
Em, okay, here you go.
Thanks. What page is it on?

I mean ffs!!!!:mad::mad::eek:

Okay you say, its not his subject. But here's the whopper. He does this with his own classes too. With the actual classes he teaches all year round, to the point that a couple of the subject teachers have actually told him to "fcuk off"

How people like him get through the net is beyond me - but I'm used to it. My own French teacher in school was the exact same. No parle francais, but I can tell you everything about the world cup that year!! :eek:

byhookorbycrook · 23-08-2009 04:39PM

If anyone is going into primary (can't speak for secondary) because of the holidays, they won't last the pace. 35 junior infants would soon sort the wheat from the chaff.

kippy · 23-08-2009 10:44PM

livinginkorea wrote: »

Eventhough we have always seen many teachers in action down through our school years that doesn't mean we know the ins and outs of teaching. We might think that we do but in reality teachers do a hell of a lot more than just standing at the top of the classroom. The main 'complaint' I got when training them (and this may be a cultural difference) is that they don't get respect from students when they start teaching and a huge amount of teachers worldwide quit the profession because of classroom management.

In Korea, a lot of backpackers come here and most don't give a fig about teaching, playing games and generally passing the time as quickly as they can, and the students may be marginally better off than when the 'teacher' came first. It annoys me when some Koreans look at me and expect games and fun and clowning around when I am the exact opposite. For people who want to be real teachers then there will always be a load of blow ins, career wasters who damage our image. I am worried that in Ireland the large increase of people wanting to be a teacher because of the economy and not because they seriously want to be will lead to reduced learning.

I see what your worried about but really I think you are incorrect in your assertations.
First of all, do you not think that a person at the age of 18 will have had far more exposure to teaching/teachers as a career than they will have had to the majority of any other career available to them. No matter how little they know about the background work they have a good idea about the job and what it entails. That is simply the point I am making. Is it not surprising that it is a popular career based on this alone? Whether or not this experince of teaching as a career is accurate or not is somewhat irrelevant in the point I am trying to make.

On your second point.
I'd like to point out that there have/are and always will be bad teachers in the system since teaching became a career. There have been recessions in this country before where people have made career choices based on money.
There are many people doing other types of work at the moment that I can imagine would make fantastic teachers, and more teachers that I have had personal experience with that shouldnt be in the profession. Do these people who decent degrees not deserve a chance in the world, a chance to teach?
Do not blame them if there are no jobs for "traditionally" qualified teachers. That is the fault of the government and dare I say it the Unions, who have, over the past few years allowed more and more avenues be opened for people so that enough teachers could teach our classes. Now we see class sizes being increased again and a complete cut in education budgets.

kmick · 24-08-2009 10:51AM

kippy wrote: »

Noone anywhere said that being in a classroom "qualified" you to be a teacher.

You did - see below.

kippy wrote: »

Everyone who has been to school has "shadowed" a teacher for a good part of their lives and has a good idea about what the job entails.

Powerhouse · 24-08-2009 11:18AM

I have already touched on this but it seems to have remained unread so I'll say it again. Some teachers here are portraying their job as hell on earth, utterly stressful and horribly demanding. There is a certain arrognace to this in that it seems to be implying that many of the new entrants could not possibly be capable of coping with this. It is impossible for any prospective teacher to know the actuality of the class-room until they end up there. This was also the case for those who are telling us about the pressure too. But the link between not perhaps fully appreciating difficult aspects of the job and not being able to cope when they emerge is being implied and that seems unfair and inappropriate.

There is also an assumption here that stress and pressure are two concrete labels which can be hung on a particular job. Stress and pressure are abstract, subjective things which affect people differently. You might find dealing with 25/30 children terrible, but somebody else might be a natural and much better at coping with this situation. They might be quite comfortable letting a bit of banter or messing go in the confidence that they can rein it in easily while another teacher might not be able to cope without complete control at all times.

The stress thing is often a bit of a non-argument anyway as it cannot really be challenged. If you say to a teacher "why do you stay in the job then?", you'll often get the "coz I luv it" riposte. As I often say if you do "luv it" how bad can it actually be? Or do you really think that you are that great that you can cope with/love a terribly stressful job that not many others can do?

Well, I have news for you - there are 60,000+ teachers around the country, very ordinary people, who teach year in year out. Some do it well, quite a few do it badly, the rest just get on with it. Much like most jobs really. But the idea that it is some kind of esoteric insuperable challenge only for the few doesn't stack up when you see you next door neighbour at it.

As for "do people not realise the jobs situation?" - yes, I am sure people do, but there are two answers to this, one is that many people will always determindly believe that there is one reality for the rest of the population but that it'll be different for them when their time comes, and the second is that the situation is not different in any other job these days. You wouldn't believe the number of unemployed Solicitors that are out there, to give just one maybe less than broadly publicised example.

Powerhouse · 24-08-2009 11:55AM

peanuthead wrote: »

I'm out buying my stationery, getting my books together [bought most of them on adverts:D]

Sorry, what books are you buying? You should get your school textbooks from the school and of what you need in college, you might buy one and get the rest in the library. Just that when you say you got most of them on adverts, it seems like a lot of books.

kippy · 24-08-2009 12:06PM

kmick wrote: »

You did - see below.

eh,
I said they had a "good idea" about what the job entails.......
I dont think I could go into the department of education and ask for a job as a teacher because I have a "good idea" of how to be a teacher.

People have a "good idea" about what a teaching job entails as opposed to an aeronautical engineer for example.
I by no means said that any tom, dick of harry was qualified to be a teacher because they had spent their lives in school. Hence was it not too surprising to see so many people chance their career choices when they realised that their initial career was not all it was cracked up to be?
Decent post there powerhouse.
Kippy

themusicman · 24-08-2009 12:16PM

Reading this with interest even though I should be doing something else with Thursday looming large into my view.

I do not think it is right to refer to teaching as a vocation. Apart from the superior overtones it can convey it has also been an excuse for too long to underpay teachers, nurses etc.....doing it for the love of and money should not come into it.

There are important issues being raised here in a number of different ways about non qualified teachers and the nature of the training teachers get. I did a con current degree so didnt go near dip/pgde but I am always astounded by 2 things..1 ..you get points in the interview process for teaching experience.....and 2....you dive in and teach after 1 weeks observation.

IMO no one should be let near a group of children in a position of leadership/responsibility without training first. I coach my childs football team and MUST have my badges according to my club. I think this is proper order and as a policy is appreciated by the parents. It is also in the best interests of the children.

Yet a person living near me rang the local primary school principal and armed with a BA and experience of children because"I have some" subbed virtually full time for a year.

Mixed messages....soul destroying for qualified teachers who cant get work....the simple question posed is which organisation is being most responsible.

Sorry for length of rant...first post here...love the quality of debate and felt I had to contribute

peanuthead · 24-08-2009 12:24PM

Powerhouse wrote: »

Sorry, what books are you buying? You should get your school textbooks from the school and of what you need in college, you might buy one and get the rest in the library. Just that when you say you got most of them on adverts, it seems like a lot of books.

Yeah that does make them sound like a lot. But actually all the texts and stuff I got from the school in May, but I got in touch with someone who did the course in the same place I'm going and I was to buy 2 books off her, but then she actually just gave me a couple more for free. So I didn't buy a huge amount or anything, but then I did get the history of Ed too.

I'm not into libraries really - could do without the stress of having to battle my way past people to get the last copy kind of thing.

jbravado · 24-08-2009 12:53PM

Powerhouse wrote: »

I have already touched on this but it seems to have remained unread so I'll say it again. Some teachers here are portraying their job as hell on earth, utterly stressful and horribly demanding. There is a certain arrognace to this in that it seems to be implying that many of the new entrants could not possibly be capable of coping with this. It is impossible for any prospective teacher to know the actuality of the class-room until they end up there. This was also the case for those who are telling us about the pressure too. But the link between not perhaps fully appreciating difficult aspects of the job and not being able to cope when they emerge is being implied and that seems unfair and inappropriate.

There is also an assumption here that stress and pressure are two concrete labels which can be hung on a particular job. Stress and pressure are abstract, subjective things which affect people differently. You might find dealing with 25/30 children terrible, but somebody else might be a natural and much better at coping with this situation. They might be quite comfortable letting a bit of banter or messing go in the confidence that they can rein it in easily while another teacher might not be able to cope without complete control at all times.

The stress thing is often a bit of a non-argument anyway as it cannot really be challenged. If you say to a teacher "why do you stay in the job then?", you'll often get the "coz I luv it" riposte. As I often say if you do "luv it" how bad can it actually be? Or do you really think that you are that great that you can cope with/love a terribly stressful job that not many others can do?

Well, I have news for you - there are 60,000+ teachers around the country, very ordinary people, who teach year in year out. Some do it well, quite a few do it badly, the rest just get on with it. Much like most jobs really. But the idea that it is some kind of esoteric insuperable challenge only for the few doesn't stack up when you see you next door neighbour at it.

As for "do people not realise the jobs situation?" - yes, I am sure people do, but there are two answers to this, one is that many people will always determindly believe that there is one reality for the rest of the population but that it'll be different for them when their time comes, and the second is that the situation is not different in any other job these days. You wouldn't believe the number of unemployed Solicitors that are out there, to give just one maybe less than broadly publicised example.

Amazing post.
One of major concerns about getting into teaching is being exposed to or having to deal with people of the Ops ilk.

"I now want to get into teaching" bandwagon

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