Stop someone from Killing themself?

peanuthead · 23-08-2009 03:44AM

Agonist wrote: »

There's plenty to stay alive for apart from some ill-defined possible future reason.

I'm fairly sure that the story was just being used as a clear, exaggerated example of what the poster was trying to say, which is, as you have said yourself "There is plenty to live for"

seanybiker · 23-08-2009 03:47AM

peanuthead wrote: »

I'm speaking from personal experience.

How many times you kill yourself?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 23-08-2009 03:49AM

barakus wrote: »

Poor fucker. It is a pretty selfish thing to do to your family/friends though.

I think it's pretty selfish to say this about someone who commited suicide. The friends and family are very selfish to think this way too, why didn't they read the signs and try to help

I would of course try to stop someone killing themselves.

Overheal · 23-08-2009 03:53AM

Agonist wrote: »

Load of cack. I mean, if it works for you then great. But we're not all put here on earth with a special purpose, except for the Steve Martins among us.
There's plenty to stay alive for apart from some ill-defined possible future reason.

Okay, scratch the God and Destiny referencing though. As an atheist I still appreciate the concept: you're useless dead. Alive, you can do anything.

I remember this one PI. Cant remember who it was, be I think they convinced the OP that since they were done living life for themselves that they should go give it to someone else - that is, go do missionary work. Habitats for Humanity springs to mind.

soups05 · 23-08-2009 03:53AM

the arrogance on this thread is unreal, IF i decide to end MY life then none of you better get in my way. its MY life and I will decide if its over.

that said i am an adult who can make his own choice. as to the girl who killed herself over cyber bullying, she needed help.someone who could sit down with her,talk to her, and explain how to turn off a computer and go outside ffs. silly bitch.

when you get to an age where you can make your own choices then those choices should be respected.

and before you all go off on a rant from your high horses i should point out that i had a relation who commited suicide and have been tempted myself in the past. i only stick around cos i am afraid my wife would be better off without me. bitch.

Agonist · 23-08-2009 03:58AM

peanuthead wrote: »

I'm fairly sure that the story was just being used as a clear, exaggerated example of what the poster was trying to say, which is, as you have said yourself "There is plenty to live for"

Way to miss the point of what I was saying. The corollary is that if there's nothing to live for, just an empty endless stream of unforgiving days, then I don't see why someone should stay alive on the off chance that their god has planned to use them in his master plan in the future.

I've been touched by suicide from both sides and I've never seen it attempted selfishly. I think it can be a selfish act but I've never seen that.

Insect Overlord · 23-08-2009 04:00AM

FFS. Seriously.

In All Fairness · 23-08-2009 04:02AM

Agonist wrote: »

Load of cack. I mean, if it works for you then great. But we're not all put here on earth with a special purpose, except for the Steve Martins among us.
There's plenty to stay alive for apart from some ill-defined possible future reason.

What there is to stay alive for is a very subjective point. I will assume from your post you are relatively happy. The point I was trying to make was that while a person might feel (and be) completely useless and worthless in their own life, this doesn't mean that they can't affect life greatly in others. They might have a use which as yet hasn't happened.

Sharpshooter · 23-08-2009 04:04AM

An File wrote: »

FFS. Seriously.

Spit it out?

Agonist · 23-08-2009 04:13AM

In All Fairness wrote: »

What there is to stay alive for is a very subjective point. I will assume from your post you are relatively happy. The point I was trying to make was that while a person might feel (and be) completely useless and worthless in their own life, this doesn't mean that they can't affect life greatly in others. They might have a use which as yet hasn't happened.

Ok, I can't argue with you there.
However, I doubt that an argument like that would change a suicidal person's mind. You don't get to that point without understanding that you are jettisoning a lot of potential happiness and benefit to others by your suicide, along with all the pain and disappointment that you are putting an end to.

In All Fairness · 23-08-2009 04:16AM

Agonist wrote: »

Way to miss the point of what I was saying. The corollary is that if there's nothing to live for, just an empty endless stream of unforgiving days, then I don't see why someone should stay alive on the off chance that their god has planned to use them in his master plan in the future.

I've been touched by suicide from both sides and I've never seen it attempted selfishly. I think it can be a selfish act but I've never seen that.

I don't think I said I stay alive for any masterplan. You stay alive by instinct, by responsibility, by the illogical hope that things might get better and if despair overcomes that then I don't think anyone should feel anything but sadness. To bring selfishness in on either side diminishes what was the cause of the hurt and the happiness.

Overheal · 23-08-2009 04:18AM

I think An File was spitting in Agonist's general vicinity.

I had a miserable few months when one of my relations died and I thought about it many times. But lets not be silly. days turned to weeks and things got better again. They always do. Its called Highs and Lows. Lows arent the end of it all theyre just the end of a high (life high not...-). Theres always another high in my experience.

Agonist · 23-08-2009 04:26AM

Overheal wrote: »

I think An File was spitting in Agonist's general vicinity.

I had a miserable few months when one of my relations died and I thought about it many times. But lets not be silly. days turned to weeks and things got better again. They always do. Its called Highs and Lows. Lows arent the end of it all theyre just the end of a high (life high not...-). Theres always another high in my experience.

It's a touchy subject. By jumping into this thread with my views I was bound to ruffle a few feathers.
I'm sorry to hear about the tough patch you went through and glad you came out the other end.

For some people it doesn't end. I'm just saying I understand how they feel and respect their choice not to carry on. It's like walking out of a film halfway through when you expected a drama and got a horror movie. When life's just not your genre.

I think I'm in a minority with this opinion so civilisation isn't going to break down just yet.

Overheal · 23-08-2009 04:40AM

I'm sorry to hear about the tough patch you went through and glad you came out the other end.

Ah pfft. Old stuff. I'd be shocked if everyone didnt go think about it at some point. But thanks

For some people it doesn't end. I'm just saying I understand how they feel and respect their choice not to carry on. It's like walking out of a film halfway through when you expected a drama and got a horror movie. When life's just not your genre.

I can't see it that way tonight anyway. The being Okay with it, that is. I can understand when someone chooses death over chemiotherapy say, but not choosing to hang themselves instead of raise their kids. Or yeah - the girl that gets cyber bullied and cant see two years in front of her, she's that consumed by what people might think of her. I think its naive to say "Oh We Adults Yeah - We KNOW theres nothing to live for."

We ****ing dont. lets be honest. And we can be as immature and/or young at heart as a 14 year old when we want to be.

In All Fairness · 23-08-2009 04:45AM

Agonist wrote: »

It's a touchy subject. By jumping into this thread with my views I was bound to ruffle a few feathers.
I'm sorry to hear about the tough patch you went through and glad you came out the other end.

For some people it doesn't end. I'm just saying I understand how they feel and respect their choice not to carry on. It's like walking out of a film halfway through when you expected a drama and got a horror movie. When life's just not your genre.

I think I'm in a minority with this opinion so civilisation isn't going to break down just yet.

I'm totally with you. Can't believe we were almost on opposing sides. Then I'd have to kill myself.:) I would just always try and put the points I made earlier because suicide like the death penalty is irrevocable. But if someone commits suicide they are disobeying their first primal instinct (to stay alive) so I doubt anyone alive knows the state of that mind.

pablomakaveli · 23-08-2009 11:39AM

peanuthead wrote: »

But by the same token, if everyone who suffered or hit a rough patch in their lives just took the easy way out instead of trying to deal with their problems, then there would be hardly any of us left.

In this day and age of The Samaritans, free councelling and Pieta House, there is ALWAYS someone who cares. IMO it is selfish. And I'm speaking from personal experience.

But it's not like that. If someone comes to the point where they feel they have to end their life it's because they feel they have no other option. Of course their are people who care but the person in question may not realize that.

They simply may not be thinking clearly. What seems like an irrational choice to you may seem like the best choice to them at the time.

DamoDLK · 23-08-2009 11:44AM

Someone in this state is not in a right state of mind. Yes, everything possible should be done to save a life.

peanuthead · 23-08-2009 12:44PM

seanybiker wrote: »

How many times you kill yourself?

Not the point at all.

Go back and read the post again. I'm not even going to explain it here for you.

peanuthead · 23-08-2009 12:48PM

pablomakaveli wrote: »

But it's not like that. If someone comes to the point where they feel they have to end their life it's because they feel they have no other option. Of course their are people who care but the person in question may not realize that.

They simply may not be thinking clearly. What seems like an irrational choice to you may seem like the best choice to them at the time.

Yeah I know. I completely understand that point of view. I really do, I have been very close to suicide twice in my life. And the thing is, I have thought to myself "Crap if this is how I feel and I still want to live [hence the eventual getting help] can you imagine how those who really don't feel."

peanuthead · 23-08-2009 12:51PM

I once read a statistic, I swear!! I'm looking for the link as we speak... that the majority of people who commit suicide regret it afterwards, or in the last moments of their deaths.

No, I'm not mad. Yes I do realise what I wrote. But I'm the same as you, I don't get it??!! How the hell was this research carried out??!!

pablomakaveli · 23-08-2009 12:59PM

peanuthead wrote: »

I once read a statistic, I swear!! I'm looking for the link as we speak... that the majority of people who commit suicide regret it afterwards, or in the last moments of their deaths.

No, I'm not mad. Yes I do realise what I wrote. But I'm the same as you, I don't get it??!! How the hell was this research carried out??!!

Surely you mean people who have attempted suicide.

IvyTheTerrible · 23-08-2009 01:00PM

peanuthead wrote: »

I once read a statistic, I swear!! I'm looking for the link as we speak... that the majority of people who commit suicide regret it afterwards, or in the last moments of their deaths.

No, I'm not mad. Yes I do realise what I wrote. But I'm the same as you, I don't get it??!! How the hell was this research carried out??!!

I think I know what you were talking about...I think it was done on people who commit suicide with paracetamol. There is a certain amount that won't kill you straight away but you will die slowly over a few days or a week of organ failure. There is nothing that can be done, and aparently a lot of those people said that they regretted it when it was too late.

I certainly would try to stop someone killing themselves.

fintonie · 23-08-2009 01:15PM

to answer the OP yes if you can save the life save it, and why would it be selfish to commit suicide,
jesus typical worry more about the people left behind than the person leaving.

peanuthead · 23-08-2009 01:18PM

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I think I know what you were talking about...I think it was done on people who commit suicide with paracetamol. There is a certain amount that won't kill you straight away but you will die slowly over a few days or a week of organ failure. There is nothing that can be done, and aparently a lot of those people said that they regretted it when it was too late.

I certainly would try to stop someone killing themselves.

Oh right thanks ... because it was a long time ago and I definitely remember that they were talking about people who died

@pablomakaveli I know you think I'm mad, stupid or both, but no they had died.

but Ivy you've cleared it up for me - that makes alot more sense now!!

renraw · 23-08-2009 01:39PM

It isn't a case that someone is selfish when they to kill themselves. Unless your in that prison of mentality, then you''ll never understand the pain of waking up every morning and trying to struggle with survival.

I lost 4 friends to suicide and more recently a very close cousin. I don't blame them for being selfish, I just wish I could have helped them. Thats why I can understand the OP's post. Suicide is usually built up over time and in some cases, there are no signs that show.

fintonie · 23-08-2009 01:49PM

renraw wrote: »

It isn't a case that someone is selfish when they to kill themselves. Unless your in that prison of mentality, then you''ll never understand the pain of waking up every morning and trying to struggle with survival.

I lost 4 friends to suicide and more recently a very close cousin. I don't blame them for being selfish, I just wish I could have helped them. Thats why I can understand the OP's post. Suicide is usually built up over time and in some cases, there are no signs that show.

I have to agree with you, depression is one of the main symptoms ending with suicide, which can progress over years,
people who tend to spend a lot of time on there own are subject to committing suicide this can be something to look out for,
a person who was an extrovert and has now become an introvert,

feeling crap at some stage of every day no future sme thing day in day out jesus I know the feeling all to well and these thaughts have crossed my mind alot lately but I am still a coward so till this changes I am safe.

brummytom · 23-08-2009 02:19PM

Overheal wrote: »

Strange thread, if you knew someone was killing themselves 20 feet away, you're saying you'd have to think about it?

Of course, that was directed @ everyone here.

Hi Overheal, no, I don't think I'd have to think about it - the situation just got me thinking whether everyone else would be in the same mindset; evidently not.

And FFS, what does Michael Jackson have to do with this thread whoever brought him up, it's not like you could have saved him is it?

Capt'n Midnight · 23-08-2009 03:19PM

Agonist wrote: »

Teenager in a hissy fit and numerous other scenarios, I'd intervene
Adult with head screwed on and mentally shipshape, particularly if they'd tried and failed before, I'd think twice before presuming I knew better than they did what they wanted.

FFS, don't you realise that suicide attempts are a cry for help. Especially failed attempts. :rolleyes:

If you have to pluck up the courage to kill yourself or have any doubts at all or are picky about how you do it then you don't really want to do it. Otherwise the person would have already killed themselves and not cared at all about the method.

Most suicides are permanant solutions to temporary problems.

Capt'n Midnight · 23-08-2009 03:24PM

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Here's a question. If someone tells you they are going to kill themselves or are about to attempt it, could you be prosecuted for not contacting the gardai?

I don't believe we have a good Samaratian Law.

Anyone see that docu on RTE about that journalist who talked to the guy the day before he topped himself and then said if he had lived a little longer he would have got antivirals and a mission in life exposing the church. More or less it boiled down to "I didn't try to talk him out of it because I'd didn't realise circumstances could change in the future"

pablomakaveli · 23-08-2009 07:30PM

peanuthead wrote: »

Oh right thanks ... because it was a long time ago and I definitely remember that they were talking about people who died

@pablomakaveli I know you think I'm mad, stupid or both, but no they had died.

but Ivy you've cleared it up for me - that makes alot more sense now!!

I did'nt mean i thought you were stupid i thought you may have mistyped or something.

Stop someone from Killing themself?

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