Irish Open 2010 - Structure

BigCityBanker · 21-08-2009 02:01PM #1

Ive been getting alot of questions about the IO 2010 structure so decided I might as well put it up here for all to see and get some feedback

Points of note

Starting stack remains at 10,000
Official introduction of 1200/2400 and 2500/5000 levels
75 minutes from Level 7 onwards

Level Small Blind Big Blind Ante Clock
1 25 50 60
2 50 100 60
3 75 150 60
4 100 200 60
5 150 300 60
6 150 300 25 60
7 200 400 25 75
8 300 600 50 75
9 400 800 50 75
10 500 1000 50 75
11 600 1200 100 75
12 800 1600 100 75
13 1000 2000 200 75
14 1200 2400 200 75
15 1500 3000 300 75
16 2000 4000 400 75
17 2500 5000 500 75
18 3000 6000 500 75
19 4000 8000 500 75
20 5000 10000 1000 75
21 6000 12000 1000 75
22 8000 16000 1500 75
23 10000 20000 2000 75
24 12000 24000 2000 75
25 15000 30000 3000 75
26 20000 40000 3000 75
27 25000 50000 3000 75
28 30000 60000 4000 75
29 40000 80000 4000 75
30 50000 100000 5000 75
31 60000 120000 10000 75
32 75000 150000 10000 75

mickste · 21-08-2009 02:06PM

I'm glad to see structure improvements Noel. Nice one.

DAMO72 · 21-08-2009 02:10PM

Hi Noel , Im probably not the right person to comment on this as i haven't played an open yet. While Its great to see the blinds increase and the extra levels added , i think it would be a lot more appealing to punters to get the starting stack increased also. Just my opinion and i do hope to play in 2010

gazman59 · 21-08-2009 02:14PM

i agree i think its the only thing stopping this being one of the best tourneys in europe! if we got the 15k starting stack i think it would appeal to a lot more players.

big_iain · 21-08-2009 02:14PM

wow, great structure. those jumps in any tournamnet are so big if you are shortstacked this can only offer the players more play. thumbs up.

mdwexford · 21-08-2009 02:15PM

Good to see some improvements.

Same kinda clock as the EPT this season.

No talk of upping the starting stack to 15k or going with the 30k stack and blinds start at 50-100 like the WSOP and EPT?

Mr. Wolf · 21-08-2009 02:25PM

Great structure, well done on the improvements, will it be the same price entry as last year Noel?

Flipper · 21-08-2009 02:28PM

Huge improvement. Needs a 20k stack though... Would be an awesome tourney then

BigCityBanker · 21-08-2009 02:52PM

Mr. Wolf wrote: »

will it be the same price entry as last year Noel?

yes - same entry as last year.

ollyk1 · 21-08-2009 02:57PM

If by some fluke I end up playing it I'll appreciate the efforts to improve the structure.

WP

P.S. Can we maybe get somebody to maintain a list of all boardsies playing just so we know who to bet on this year???

lol

kakak1 · 21-08-2009 03:28PM

BigCityBanker wrote: »

yes - same entry as last year.

Firstly great to see an improvement.

Perhaps I'm missing something here Noel but if almost all the people on here were rooting for an improved structure & most seem to agree on a 15k / 20k starting stack what are PP's reasons for not doing so. Is it a time problem or would it mean less players in the side events or on the cash tables. I would have thought it was a very simple decision....................

Warper · 21-08-2009 03:37PM

Ya the main thing is the starting stack - it needs to be increased to 20k. If its a time constraints issue just leave the whole tourney at a 60min clock.

oneillMan999 · 21-08-2009 03:55PM

yes i agree 15k startin stack would make for a better all round tournament, but as said before, PP wants people to play their ridicously over-raked cash games!

No reccession at the paddy power camp :rolleyes:

BigCityBanker · 21-08-2009 03:58PM

kakak1 wrote: »

Firstly great to see an improvement.

ty

kakak1 wrote: »

Perhaps I'm missing something here Noel but if almost all the people on here were rooting for an improved structure & most seem to agree on a 15k / 20k starting stack what are PP's reasons for not doing so.

its complicated and ultimately will never be discussed by me or any PPP staff on here.

kakak1 wrote: »

Is it a time problem or would it mean less players in the side events or on the cash tables.

knock on effect on side games didnt come into the discussion really - better structure = more players = more to go around. I am also comfortable on time issues.

kakak1 wrote: »

I would have thought it was a very simple decision....................

I would have thought something similar.

Warper wrote: »

Ya the main thing is the starting stack - it needs to be increased to 20k. If its a time constraints issue just leave the whole tourney at a 60min clock.

I really take issue with comments like this - moslty because it shows a pretty blatant lack of understanding of tournament structures. Its akin to the minister for finance saying that we need more money in the coffers and are therefore introducing 80% income tax rate without consideration for the likely offshoots of this decision..

There are other factors at play and starting stack is just one of the 3 major influences on structure. Personally, I would take additional time over additional starting stack any day of the week - the longer a good player has to exert his edge over his opponents the better off he is.

A bad player will always be a bad player so it doesnt really matter if you give them 10k, 15k, 20k or 100k for that matter. The more chips they have the more bad calls they make preflop, the more they are forced to play through the streets where there weaknesses will be exposed and they will just end up losing all their chips regardless.

NewApproach · 21-08-2009 04:20PM

Good stuff BCB.

Nice to know bigbatpat might get some sleep now!

kakak1 · 21-08-2009 04:21PM

BigCityBanker wrote: »

its complicated and ultimately will never be discussed by me or any PPP staff on here.

I don't want to get into an argument here but really that is a very very strange answer. If you say you or any PPP staff will not discuss it here you have obviously discussed among yourselves your policy with regard to Boards.

If you're willing to receive free advertising & discussion of your event on Boards I really feel someone from PP should be able / willing to answer a simple question " Why not increase the blinds to 15k / 20k".

There's absolutely nothing complicated about it, unless of course PP have something they don't want us to know ..................:eek::eek:

BigCityBanker · 21-08-2009 04:37PM

kakak1 wrote: »

I If you say you or any PPP staff will not discuss it here you have obviously discussed among yourselves your policy with regard to Boards.

we dont have a policy with regard to boards - other than me trying not to be obnoxious, irate and abusive - thankfully this isnt written into my contract though and I cant be held accountable for my failings!

Why it wont be discussed is due to the simple fact that PPP are only one of the stakeholders involved and like all aspects of our business I or the rest of the team will not find ourselves in a position where we discuss the contents of a private business meeting which we had with our external vendors on a public forum.

if you want an exact answer to your question

kakak1 wrote: »

Why not increase the blinds to 15k / 20k

then the answer is that we discussed it and decided against it. If you should know the topic of 15k starting stack was never broght to the table as a specific request from any party.

As a matter of interest - do people have a preference for the IO or the IWF structure? The IO has an extra level 2500/5000 and extra time from L7 onwards - personally I prefer the IO but I would be interested in hearing other peopls opinions.

Warper · 21-08-2009 04:45PM

BigCityBanker wrote: »

ty

its complicated and ultimately will never be discussed by me or any PPP staff on here.

knock on effect on side games didnt come into the discussion really - better structure = more players = more to go around. I am also comfortable on time issues.

I would have thought something similar.

I really take issue with comments like this - moslty because it shows a pretty blatant lack of understanding of tournament structures. Its akin to the minister for finance saying that we need more money in the coffers and are therefore introducing 80% income tax rate without consideration for the likely offshoots of this decision..
There are other factors at play and starting stack is just one of the 3 major influences on structure. Personally, I would take additional time over additional starting stack any day of the week - the longer a good player has to exert his edge over his opponents the better off he is.

A bad player will always be a bad player so it doesnt really matter if you give them 10k, 15k, 20k or 100k for that matter. The more chips they have the more bad calls they make preflop, the more they are forced to play through the streets where there weaknesses will be exposed and they will just end up losing all their chips regardless.

That is just laughable.

A 10k starting stack in major tournaments is becoming a thing of the past. Most of the major tournaments have realised this and have listened to players feedback. The EPT have changed their entire structure for next season - from a 10k stack to a 30k stack as they actually listen to players. I thought Rip-off Ireland was a thing of the past.

The Irish Open is a great tournament with a great history and is Ireland's No. 1 tournament. But your sort of arrogant attitude just doesn't cut it.

kakak1 · 21-08-2009 04:59PM

BigCityBanker wrote: »

Why it wont be discussed is due to the simple fact that PPP are only one of the stakeholders involved and like all aspects of our business I or the rest of the team will not find ourselves in a position where we discuss the contents of a private business meeting which we had with our external vendors on a public forum.

if you want an exact answer to your question

then the answer is that we discussed it and decided against it. If you should know the topic of 15k starting stack was never broght to the table as a specific request from any party.

I didn't ask for the gory or otherwise details of your "private business meeting" I asked why, what to me looked like a simple decision, the starting stack was not increased to 15k / 20k as was requested by many of your customers & to be given the answer " we discussed it and decided against it" is really telling me, a customer, to fck off & mind your own business. It's not what I would call " an exact answer to your question"

I would like to see your companies mission statement & I doubt very much it includes "customer satisfaction"

ITT-Pat · 21-08-2009 05:02PM

Warper wrote: »

That is just laughable.

What is just laughable? The part of BCB's post which you have highlighted is very important. You said you'd prefer more chips and less time on the clock, imo this shows you do lack an understanding of tournament structures to a degree. This is what BCB was pointing out. Far from laughable

oneillMan999 · 21-08-2009 05:03PM

Warper wrote: »

That is just laughable.

A 10k starting stack in major tournaments is becoming a thing of the past. Most of the major tournaments have realised this and have listened to players feedback. The EPT have changed their entire structure for next season - from a 10k stack to a 30k stack as they actually listen to players. I thought Rip-off Ireland was a thing of the past.

The Irish Open is a great tournament with a great history and is Ireland's No. 1 tournament. But your sort of arrogant attitude just doesn't cut it.

Agreed, we all know the irish open is europes longest running tournament, but lets move with the times...the WSOP main event being a perfect example!

You talk about investors etc but surely PP have the final say on structure details?? If not, then i seriuosly hope the irish open sponsorship will change hands in the near future.

BigCityBanker · 21-08-2009 05:04PM

kakak1 wrote: »

I didn't ask for the gory or otherwise details of your "private business meeting" I asked why, what to me looked like a simple decision, the starting stack was not increased to 15k / 20k as was requested by many of your customers & to be given the answer " we discussed it and decided against it" is really telling me, a customer, to fck off & mind your own business. It's not what I would call " an exact answer to your question"

I would like to see your companies mission statement & I doubt very much it includes "customer satisfaction"

give me an honest estimation of just how many of the people who cry for more chips will buy into the IO with their own hard cash?

I disagree that we are really telling a customer to fck off but to some extent I am saying mind your own business - you do understand that these two points are mutually exclusive and can exist independently?

bops · 21-08-2009 05:10PM

everybody wants a bigger starting stack, ie 20k - it seems to be the norm now for big tournaments (eg EPT, WSOP etc).

I find it hand to understand how you numbskulls had a meeting, where it is obv that everyone wants 20k, everyone will be happy, you'll get much more interest and therefore many more runners - which i would think is your goal??
...and ye go meh no

lol

kakak1 · 21-08-2009 05:18PM

BigCityBanker wrote: »

give me an honest estimation of just how many of the people who cry for more chips will buy into the IO with their own hard cash?

I disagree that we are really telling a customer to fck off but to some extent I am saying mind your own business - you do understand that these two points are mutually exclusive and can exist independently?

This is unbelievable Noel. What the fck difference how they get into the IO. Are you saying because they get in for €5 or €100 or €250 that we don't have to give them value or what the punter wants. That is really great customer relations.

No when dealing with customers, & I did for over 30 years, they can't stand independently. You tell me as a customer to mind my own business, and if I'm playing the IO, it is my business you are in fact telling me to fck off..........and you said you try not to be arrogant..............you need to try a little harder cos you're coming across as very arrogant to me.

Unless your company PP has something to hide (& if you have I understand why you cannot explain or answer simple questions), get off the pot, cut the waffling & answer your customers questions when asked on a public forum that you choose to advertise your event on.......it's the least we deserve as customers.

roleynoley · 21-08-2009 05:24PM

Just have a look at the structure the macau had recently for their festival ME.Every1 is raving about it.People saying"best structure ive ever played"etc.20k stack is the way to go especially for irelands flagship tourney.Theres a 10k starting stack in the 100 fo tonight in there ffs.Get with the times and LISTEN to what we are all saying!!!!!!!!!

RichieLawlor · 21-08-2009 05:25PM

Less chips longer clock means more play when it matters. It's that simple.

Who cares about the numptys who want 20k so they can sit for ten hours and say they went deep in the Irish open. The best tournaments I've played have been in Vegas where almost all are small stack long clock.

Drop the starting stack to 8k and remove the 25-50 and 75-150 level and the players who get deep will see the benefits

BigCityBanker · 21-08-2009 05:29PM

kakak1 wrote: »

This is unbelievable Noel. What the fck difference how they get into the IO. Are you saying because they get in for €5 or €100 or €250 that we don't have to give them value or what the punter wants. That is really great customer relations. .

your missing the point completely.

kakak1 wrote: »

No when dealing with customers, & I did for over 30 years, they can't stand independently. You tell me as a customer to mind my own business, and if I'm playing the IO, it is my business you are in fact telling me to fck off..........and you said you try not to be arrogant..............you need to try a little harder cos you're coming across as very arrogant to me.

Unless your company PP has something to hide (& if you have I understand why you cannot explain or answer simple questions), get off the pot, cut the waffling & answer your customers questions when asked on a public forum that you choose to advertise your event on.......it's the least we deserve as customers.

Ive already covered why I wont discuss it. afaik we (PPP or any tournament organiser) are expected to answer all reasonable questions and I will continue to do so - Im going to need alot of convincing that your particular line of questioning falls under the 'reasonable' banner. If a mod wishes to instruct me to the contrary then I will deal with it as I see fit at that point in time.

robinblinds · 21-08-2009 05:30PM

The real crux of this issue is that the tournament has been alive since 1981 and therefore it is VERY difficult to change things that have been around and set in stone for a long time.

Please remember that other tournaments can be changed at the drop of a hat...a few hours notice in some cases.

This is an institutional tournament and its very being means it is very hard to change it, even though we all want it to change and improve for the better.

Dave (kakak1), believe me, the amount of work that has been done and will continue to be done on this is huge and never ending.

Maybe we need to somehow communicate this to the to the paying players a bit better.

My two cents is (as a player, if I was allowed to play in the event) that I would rather the IO 2010 structure to the new IWF structure.

BigCityBanker · 21-08-2009 05:31PM

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Less chips longer clock means more play when it matters. It's that simple.

Who cares about the numptys who want 20k so they can sit for ten hours and say they went deep in the Irish open. The best tournaments I've played have been in Vegas where almost all are small stack long clock.

Drop the starting stack to 8k and remove the 25-50 and 75-150 level and the players who get deep will see the benefits

Richie, you better take a screen shot of this in case I see sense and edit it out later toinightb but I agree with some of the points you make above.

connie147 · 21-08-2009 05:33PM

BigCityBanker wrote: »

give me an honest estimation of just how many of the people who cry for more chips will buy into the IO with their own hard cash?

I disagree that we are really telling a customer to fck off but to some extent I am saying mind your own business - you do understand that these two points are mutually exclusive and can exist independently?

Hi Noel,
First of all, congratz on getting in the extra levels and extended clock from level 7 onwards. I know youve been wanting to improve the structures for quite a while so kudos for that.

On the stack size, I'm afraid I'm gonna be in agreement with others that I personally feel that 10k doesnt cut it for a tournament with the status and symbollism of the Irish Open. But then again, I'm not someone that travels all year buying into large buy-in events, so in fairness, I understand that others viewpoints carry more weight than mine. If I get to play in the tourney, it will be because I satt in to it.

I know we are blessed in this country with excellent structures for medium buy-in events, and long may that continue. But with Ireland having a great name for deepstacked value for money tourneys, is that not all the more reason that the Irish Open should be out there leading the way? Is there other models out foreign that ye are basing this 10k stack on?, or is it just that ye dont want to change a winning formula but improve it by adding levels and time on the clock?

Regardless, ye have made huge improvements. I would be interested in hearing opinions of players who do buy into EPT's and the like and find out does the stack size affect their decision?

Connie

tensevensuited · 21-08-2009 05:35PM

BigCityBanker wrote: »

Ive been getting alot of questions about the IO 2010 structure so decided I might as well put it up here for all to see and get some feedback

Points of note
Starting stack remains at 10,000

Official introduction of 1200/2400 and 2500/5000 levels

75 minutes from Level 7 onwards

Level Small Blind Big Blind Ante Clock
1 25 50 60
2 50 100 60
3 75 150 60
4 100 200 60
5 150 300 60
6 150 300 25 60
7 200 400 25 75
8 300 600 50 75
9 400 800 50 75
10 500 1000 50 75
11 600 1200 100 75
12 800 1600 100 75
13 1000 2000 200 75
14 1200 2400 200 75
15 1500 3000 300 75
16 2000 4000 400 75
17 2500 5000 500 75
18 3000 6000 500 75
19 4000 8000 500 75
20 5000 10000 1000 75
21 6000 12000 1000 75
22 8000 16000 1500 75
23 10000 20000 2000 75
24 12000 24000 2000 75
25 15000 30000 3000 75
26 20000 40000 3000 75
27 25000 50000 3000 75
28 30000 60000 4000 75
29 40000 80000 4000 75
30 50000 100000 5000 75
31 60000 120000 10000 75
32 75000 150000 10000 75

u posted this up 2 get feedback and now ur getting ur feedback.do ur customers feedback not matter or are u just being totaly ignorant to what
the customer has 2 say.basicaly this should be a 15k tournie,but ur basically telling us 2 fck off and mind ur our own business.do u not like
the feedback ur getting.

another point i find a little funny is u can post a structure for the io nearly 9 months in advance yet u only finalised the structre last week 4 the winter fest which happens in 2 months.

noel its about time u take customers seriously coz we r not fools.

Irish Open 2010 - Structure

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