Is nordic Europe the model Ireland should follow?

djpbarry wrote: »

I think that's a little simplistic. For example, would you say that they abolition of the state monopoly held by Telecom Éireann was a bad thing?

Thanks very much for supplying me with an even better example than any of those already mentioned. Nobody will attest to the abject failure that was the privatisation of Eircom more than the very investors who bought it out.

The Eircom flotation is considered to have been an example of a stock market bubble — after the initial hype of the flotation died down, the stock price fell rapidly. Many of the 500,000 small investors were angered by the significant financial loss they incurred, blaming the government for not sufficiently warning them of the risks inherent in stock market investment.

Since privatisation Eircom penetration of landlines has fallen from 82% to 69%.

After the privatisation of Eircom, the highly profitable mobile phone division, Eircell, was sold to Vodafone. Some consider this act to be asset stripping by the large investors with interests in eircom.

Eircom announced in June 2007 that from 30 July line rental charges would increase by €1.18 bringing line rental charges – already the most expensive in Europe to a total of €25.36 per month for a PSTN analogue line, one source indicated it was the highest line rental charge in the world.

Asset stripping, price hikes and a disjointed service provided to the country - the three hallmarks of privatisation, but then again what did anyone expect would happen when you took a public service paid through taxes at the behest of a directly elected government on the behalf if the people of Ireland, split it up and sold it off to thousands of money-grubbing investors with no interest in anything other than making a quick euro off of it.

Not to mention all public services being paid for largely through taxes are thereby technically a possession of the public, or an investment the public has made in itself if you will, an investment completely stricken off by the government that decides to sell it out to the market.

But we should only be so lucky if privatisation of telecoms was the only thing we had to worry about, no, that's a requirement in EU law, more concerning is what happens when you take even more important industries like health and education and allow it to be carved up amongst the same fat cats and mindless ad men.

djpbarry wrote: »

And that’s a bad thing because?

Because of like I said, asset stripping, price hikes and a disjointed service to the public..

The modern English speaking world has seemingly bought into the charade that privatisation is anything but daylight robbery from the public more so than anyone else. I'm not sure why, perhaps having the most expressive language on the planet also makes us liable to the most effective brainwashing but let be break it dwn quite simply so nobody is fooling anyone that there is truly nothing to be gained from privatisation, in fact quite the opposite, it is a mercilessly eroding force on every single proud institution of public service upon which it is allowed to taint:

Let me give you a personal example, my girlfriend lives 3 hours away and so we rely on the trains to see each other. When the whole system is maintained by the state there are no pointless fees and rentals for various parts of the service and the whole business can be subsidised by taxes and even run at a loss if need be; why? Oh, something to do with human beings valuing interpersonal contact with each other or something. Anyway, this means that privatisation of the railway amongst various different businesses not working in any particular unison leads inherently to an increase in ticket prices.

So it costs me about £50-60 return to see my girlfriend unless I manage to find a "special deal".

But then there's the issue of a hundred different private companies managing different regions and different parts of the service, none of them interested in anything other than next quarter profits. This makes upgrading the lines in any real way almost impossible, afterall there may be no financial benefit to them to introduce a TGV to the UK and rather than competing with each other in service they compete in profits and the quality of "public service" is deadlocked.

So if I was living in France I could catch the TGV which is both faster and cheaper than the trains here in the UK, I could see me girlfriend more and have more money left over to either see her more regularly or do more with her when we're together.

Transport, education, health care and even telecoms, cynicism aside are the primary ways with which we engage with each other and with society during our lives which we allow to be eroded by "market forces" through privatisation. Private wealth accumulation has no place in the world of cancer treatment, telephone calls to loved ones or the education of our children, the market does not have the public good at heart it has next quarters financial results at heart and nothing more, this has been shown time and time again but for some reason there still exists, particularly in the anglosphere, the myth that human beings are inherently incapable of providing anything of any worth to society and only the mystical powers of the market can provide anything of worth.

Pretty soon who killed the electric car becomes who killed the new treatment for this disease and who killed free, nationwide broadband and who killed television with a charter to provide for the public good - all because it's simply not necessary in order to make money Q4 on Q3.

We sell ourselves out for money we don't even receive, it is utterly pathetic.

djpbarry wrote: »

So privatising Eircom and opening up the market to competitors was a bad idea? Are you serious? You think we would be better off now if Telecom Éireann was the still the sole telecoms provider in this country?

In fairness the service that Eircom has provided over the years has been a complete disaster. They lobbied really hard to keep the charges for local loop unbundling high. Irish broadband access is the laughing stock of Europe, though recently it has improved. Look at the Ireland Off-line community if you want to see how terrible the privitisation worked out for users of the services.

More than privitisation it was probably the way that this particular privitisation was handled that was the problem. In saying that, having "lived through" the barren wasteland of ****ty internet access that Eircom tried to maintain, I would be opposed to seeing other privitisations of other services.

Digi_Tilmitt wrote: »

In fairness the service that Eircom has provided over the years has been a complete disaster.

I know, which is precisely why I’m glad that I have the choice not to subscribe to their service!

Digi_Tilmitt wrote: »

More than privitisation it was probably the way that this particular privitisation was handled that was the problem.

That’s true, but the idea of privatising and opening up the telecoms market wasn’t a bad one.