Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Over 90,000 receiving rent Allowance

135

Comments

  • #62
    senordingdong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    nedtheshed wrote: »
    I did lose my job,in the middle of a 12 months lease.You know what I did.
    I moved out,took the hit and lost my €1000 deposit because they didnt get someone else to move in for 2 months.

    I was in a similar situation.
    But decided not to move out. I made an application for rent allowance.

    I've been giving money to the state for years.
    Who are you to say I shouldn't get some of it back?

    Better it's spent keeping roofs over peoples heads then footing the bill for some politicians lunch or chauffeur, no?


  • #63
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Shur they can just f*ck off back where they came from..

    They are guest workers, not Irish citizens. They came here to work, not live off the Irish taxpayer. Welfare was set up as a safety net for Irish workers who fell on hard times, no it is a fishing net for eastern europe and parts of Africa.

    I highly doubt over foreign 30,000 families paid more into the system than they are currently taking out, when you consider their benefits, dole payments per adult, child allowance, rent allowance, medical card, education etc. We simply cannot afford this anymore, we are a bankrupt nation.

    I hve no problem with my tax going towards my fellow citizens going through a hard time, but I see no reason why my tax should be subsidising foreign nationals.


  • #64
    Salvelinus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 272 ✭✭Salvelinus


    PaulieD wrote: »
    They are guest workers, not Irish citizens. They came here to work, not live off the Irish taxpayer. Welfare was set up as a safety net for Irish workers who fell on hard times, no it is a fishing net for eastern europe and parts of Africa.

    I highly doubt over foreign 30,000 families paid more into the system than they are currently taking out, when you consider their benefits, dole payments per adult, child allowance, rent allowance, medical card, education etc. We simply cannot afford this anymore, we are a bankrupt nation.

    I hve no problem with my tax going towards my fellow citizens going through a hard time, but I see no reason why my tax should be subsidising foreign nationals.

    Like the Germans are saying about ireland now.


  • #65
    Wertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    @Sam Vimes

    In the meantime what happens all these people with nowhere to live whilst the market adjusts? It just turns into one big game of musical chairs and a scramble for the places asking lower rents

    I agree with you entirely here, btw, I'm just playing devil's advocate.

    Where BTL investors have overstretched themselves by taking on loans that they can't now realistically repay by depending on a dated projection of income (including the rental supplement), where does this make them any different to teh big time property speculators and developers (apart from the amounts they owe) who can't sell property that was projected to be worth more than what it now is?


  • #66
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Salvelinus wrote: »
    Like the Germans are saying about ireland now.

    So, that makes it ok? The Germans gave us a dig out now we have to house, feed and support thousands of eastern europeans and africans? It does not work like that my friend. We can easily turn the tap off, all it takes is a stroke of a pen.


  • Advertisement
  • #67
    Wertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    Salvelinus wrote: »
    Like the Germans are saying about ireland now.

    Mind you the germans were canny enough not to allow immigrant workers from the EU accession states to work in their country...and they weren't the only ones...it was mugs like us and the UK who opened that stable door.


  • #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    PaulieD wrote: »
    So, that makes it ok? The Germans gave us a dig out now we have to house, feed and support thousands of eastern europeans and africans? It does not work like that my friend. We can easily turn the tap off, all it takes is a stroke of a pen.

    THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!!!


  • #69
    Wertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    Deleted User wrote: »
    THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!!!

    Are south park quotes really the best you can come up with?
    Like it or not these are important points that the whole country is going to have to face up to...continually burying the head in the sand and thinking we can somehow buy our way back out of the whole sorry mess we've created/inherited/had foisted upon us will get us nowhere...


  • #70
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Deleted User wrote: »
    THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!!!

    That was funny the first time, but if that is your best argument, maybe you should leave the topic.

    -90% of all jobs went to immigrants in 2008.

    -23% of those on welfare are immigrants.

    -33% of those in reciept of rent allowance are immigrants.

    Yet, people still think mass immigration is the bees knees.:rolleyes:

    We could have followed Germany's example, they do not allow the accession states free access to their labour market, they need a work permit to gain employment there.

    Unlike us gullible paddies, Brian Cowen decided to open the labour market fully to the accession states, before he knew that the UK would do likewise. Lucky boy that they did, otherwise we would be royally screwed. Even Lenihan admits cheap labour from eastern europe is one of the factors in why we are such a mess. Yet, people still bury their heads in the sand for fear of being labelled racist.


  • #71
    falterego
    Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭falterego


    Ok I haven't read all the replies in this thread so I'm not sure who I'm rubbing up the wrong way but I'd like to say a little bit about rent allowance. I've worked in the homeless and housing sector so I'm somewhat familiar with this issue.

    Firstly, in an ideal world world rent allowance would not exist. There would be no need for it. The reason it exists is because there is a hugely inadequate stock of social housing available. When someone receives rent allowance it means that: 1) they are not in a position to provide adequate housing for themselves, i.ie they are in receipt of a welfare payment and cannot afford to rent privately or pay a mortage and 2) the state who they have requested housing from, i.e they are on the housing or homeless list, is unable to meet that need.

    If you believe that rent allowance should be scrapped altogether you are essentially saying that you believe that a vast swathe of people should be made homeless. Rent allowance is a symptom of a wider problem, namely that our governement was so entralled with private property development that the principle and supply of social housing has fallen by the wayside.

    Some general points about rent allowance:

    1) It is not given out willy-nilly to all and sundry. I have dealt with enough incredibly strict community welfare officers to know that rent allowance claims can be and often are rejected. The CWO must visit the property, the claimant must show that the property meets their needs and crucially is not above the appropriate rent cap.

    2)It can be incredibly difficult to find a landlord who will accept rent allowance. They often refuse anyone receiving 'social' due to various preconceptions of what that person will be like. The double whammy of finding a property that is under the cap with a landlord who will accept rent allowance often excludes up to 95% of rental properties on the market. (this figure is based on surveys I carried out in a previous job.)

    3)Tenants have always had to make a contribution towards their rent. This figure has recently gone up and the maximum amount claimable has come down. It is not an all-inclusive gravey train.

    4)Inevitably there is fraud in the social wlefare system. This is commited by people regardless of their race or nationality. Arguing that rent allowance is silly because fraud exists is a non-sequitar. Welfare fraud necitates greater vigiliance and anti-fraud measures not abandonment of the entire principle.

    Rent allowance was intended to be a temporary solution to a growing housing problem but thanks to the ineptitude of our governemnt has come to be a permenant fixture in the housing market. I wish we didn't need it but unfortuanately it is essential for many people.


  • Advertisement
  • #72
    Salvelinus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 272 ✭✭Salvelinus


    PaulieD wrote: »
    So, that makes it ok? The Germans gave us a dig out now we have to house, feed and support thousands of eastern europeans and africans? It does not work like that my friend. We can easily turn the tap off, all it takes is a stroke of a pen.

    Is it as handy as someone applying and just getting it or does it just apply if you meet conditions? If people are scamming then straight to the airport but my worry is that I can see all the economic woes being laid at the feet or foreigners and no lessons will be learned from this whole debacle.


  • #73
    PeterLT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 231 ✭✭PeterLT


    PaulieD wrote: »
    So, that makes it ok? The Germans gave us a dig out now we have to house, feed and support thousands of eastern europeans and africans? It does not work like that my friend. We can easily turn the tap off, all it takes is a stroke of a pen.

    What if they all applied for Irish citizenship and were granted that? That would make them Irish. Would you be happy knowing that your tax subsidises Irish nationals?


  • #74
    You Suck!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 446 ✭✭You Suck!


    Fubar would be a kind description to describe the state of the country at the moment.......just glad I don't have to deal with it.

    The fact that rents are barely dropping in the depths of a recession just means that the readjustment is being put off, and the more you put it off the more it hurts and more harm it will cause all round.

    The developers got theirs(and more comming), any landlord who thinks they won't get theirs will surely deserve the price of their greedy ignorance.


  • #75
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    PeterLT wrote: »
    What if they all applied for Irish citizenship and were granted that? That would make them Irish. Would you be happy knowing that your tax subsidises Irish nationals?

    If they went about it the using the proper methods, then yes. I do not consider those who gave birth on Irish soil just to avail of Irish citizenship and granted leave to remain, Irish. I find it undemocratic as the Irish people voted to change this loophole by 79%-21%, yet thousands and thousands where still issued Irish citizenship under this scheme(scam) after the referendum.


  • #76
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Bandit12 wrote: »
    No you can't and learn to stop insulting people. It will make you a nicer person :cool:
    If if they can't, OAP's can so my point still stands.

    Secondly, look up the word insulting because you obviously have no clue what it means.


  • #77
    fifth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭fifth


    Helix wrote: »
    surely thats the fault of you and your partner?

    where are your savings?

    That hasn't happened to me, but I refuse to ignore your ignorant comment!

    How is it 'surely' my fault or my partners fault if one or both of us was to lose our jobs due to the current economic climate. Any savings we had would be used to firstly feed us and child, things like that. We'd have to use our savings but they wouldn't get us very far so, that is why we would need a rent supplement.

    If I worked and paid taxes for years I am bloody well entitled to have my rent supplemented regardless of what you or anyone else says.

    We chose to rent a place which was not very expensive - €650 a month - purely because we would not like to have to ask for lots of handouts when we lose our jobs. Therefore the allowance we would be claiming if the worst happens, would be a paltry sum and one I am entitled to.


  • #78
    Wertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    If if they can't, OAP's can so my point still stands.

    No it doesn't; you made a blanket statement about all social welfare recipients getting it and even included broadband along with the line rental. All any OAP gets (and they have to be over 70) is the line rental and about €10 worth of calls. People with medical conditions can apply on the grounds of needing it for personal alarms and such
    For people on pensions that have worked all their lives and paid taxes for most of that life, I think the least they can expect is a helping hand with meeting such an unnecessary bill as bloody line rental from €ircon; paying €25 p/m for a length of copper...only in Ireland could you get away with such malarkey.


  • #79
    dimejinky99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 495 ✭✭dimejinky99


    If begrudgery were an olympic sport I swear..

    You should try find a property that falls in or under HSEs guide price for allowable rent application (impossible 99% of the time) then from that 1% find a landlord that will actually take rent allowance. Armchair begrudgery is alive and well in Ireland. we are being taken for a ride by both the Government, banks, landlords and immigrants to a degree, but to then suggest that there is plenty of work out there is beyond any measure of ludicrous! Most jobs that are available are minnimumwage jobs which weirdly leave you better off staying on the dole and claiming rent allowance. And jobs that are advertising MW are mostly only interested in foreign staff because as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, they don't get any talkback about rights and entitlements from the non national staff!

    I work in bars when I can find work and these days it's gotten so bad that if you see anything resembling 'must have written/spoken English' you know not even to bother applying as they simply don't want irish staff. Doubt me? give it a shot applying for one of those jobs. You won't even get a reply!

    We should clean up our own house and sort out our own, with all the difficulties and drama involved with that, before opening our doors to others. I don't blame non nationals, they just want a better life for themselves and their families and no blame to them, but when are we gonna stop spending our energies spouting off moaning baout it on effing message boards and get onto our TDs and Councillors and get them to do their jobs and tackle this crap before it gets worse and it is going to get worse!!

    But in the mean time get educated about every side of the argument before you shoot your mouth off and that's to the OP in particular. Bleedin granny. Ye probably vote Fianna Fail. Ye ****ehawke.


  • #80
    PeterLT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 231 ✭✭PeterLT


    PaulieD wrote: »
    If they went about it the using the proper methods, then yes. I do not consider those who gave birth on Irish soil just to avail of Irish citizenship and granted leave to remain, Irish. I find it undemocratic as the Irish people voted to change this loophole by 79%-21%, yet thousands and thousands where still issued Irish citizenship under these scheme(scam) after the referendum.

    Ok, fair enough i argee with you on this one. I really should check exact numbers on immigration statistics before going any further, but I'll chance it.

    I think immigration problem isn't so big in Ireland, compared to UK, Spain and in other particular countries. I really doubt that 90pc of all jobs went for immigrants in 2008. I would say 10pc is more likely.

    For non EU nationals it's very hard here. There are strict rules in regard of their employment. Tis easier for EU nationals. I'm sorry but I can't back up my words without looking at statistics, so I tell what I know from my experience.

    More than half of non nationals I know left the State before recession started. Other quarter are still in employment and quarter are unemployed. Most of unemployed are claiming Jobseekers Benefit (for 9 months) and after that it's going home or staying home. Most I know are here with families and their children who a going to schools or colleges. Part of them are habitual immigrants with no intentions to leave Ireland ever and part of them are pure chancers trying to take every cent from the State without denying this fact, but AFAIK Social Welfare Department is tackling this problem and quite successfully.

    There was a recent research in UK and it revealed that non nationals contributed more by paying taxes, than claiming benefits. I believe nobody carried out that kind of research in Ireland? It would be interesting to know the facts.


  • #81
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Wertz wrote: »
    No it doesn't; you made a blanket statement about all social welfare recipients getting it and even included broadband along with the line rental. All any OAP gets (and they have to be over 70) is the line rental and about €10 worth of calls. People with medical conditions can apply on the grounds of needing it for personal alarms and such
    For people on pensions that have worked all their lives and paid taxes for most of that life, I think the least they can expect is a helping hand with meeting such an unnecessary bill as bloody line rental from €ircon; paying €25 p/m for a length of copper...only in Ireland could you get away with such malarkey.
    I didn't say all people on the social welfare get it and I didn't include broadband in with it. Read my post again.

    And yes, my point still stands. The fact is the government spends money on something completely unnecessary when it could be put to better use. THAT was my point.


  • Advertisement
  • #82
    procure11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭procure11


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Read the whole thread before responding mmkay?

    Oh, and yes, you can get your line rental paid for if you're unemployed.


    Thats certainly untrue.
    There are age restrictions when deciding to pay for line rentals.
    Long story short..the scheme is only available to over 60s.


  • #83
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    procure11 wrote: »
    Thats certainly untrue.
    There are age restrictions when deciding to pay for line rentals.
    Long story short..the scheme is only available to over 60s.
    And the over 60's are unemployed?

    I see.

    ;)


  • #84
    procure11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭procure11


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    And the over 60's are unemployed?

    I see.

    ;)

    Well...the question would be yours to answer.You earlier claimed that Unemployed people were entitiled to free phone rentals.I then put to you that you were either ill informed or just intentionally distorting facts to support your arguements.
    My stance ...Unemploymed people are not eligible to recieve payments for Phone rentals. Dispute it.


  • #85
    Wertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    It's over 70's...and yes they're unemployed, since it's five years past the regular age of retirement.

    If you want to stick it to pensioners look in the direction of those in power that get ministerial pensions (some of whom have not retired) that are multiples of what people even receive as the average industrial wage, or those who can retire early from the public service and still have their pensions paid for...by the taxpayer.
    Line rental supplement is pocket money compared to the waste that is going on within government and the public services...


  • #86
    Wertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    dimejinky99 wrote: »
    I don't blame non nationals, they just want a better life for themselves and their families and no blame to them...

    This is something I'd like to highlight and something that doesn't come up in these debates enough.

    I don't blame non-Irish nationals either...they're only playing by the rules that have been imposed by our elected officials.

    Those are who I blame for the mess that immigration and the refugee issue has become...for the sake of short term gain (new workforce for the never ending boom, new tenants for BTL landlords, new taxpayers) we sold out long term sustainability...now we're left with a school system that can't cope with non english speaking children, a social welfare system snowed under with demands from Irish and non-Irish alike, a series of expensive government bodies tasked with managing the rights of immigrants and with promoting an anti racism stance and a whole shedload of other problems that no-one can agree on about how to fix.

    The problem doesn't lie with the players...it lies with the game and the rules of that game...it's too late to do anything about it now...you can't simply turn around and tell these people to f*ck off home, however practical that may look on paper and however much you might feel like doing so...


  • #87
    freedom of info
    Closed Accounts Posts: 143 ✭✭freedom of info


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    No they are not the same.

    One is a tax relief that anyone earning and contributing tax is entitled to.

    The other is the government paying part/all of your rent for you, usually cos you're a waster on the dole with no intention of trying to support youself. (and the minority real cases of people in difficulty)

    try living in the real world, 500,000 unemployed or partially employed,not to mention all those doing mickey mouse courses, all of us cant be wasters, i hope this misfortune enters your selfish life, if you are really lucky you might pick up a really crap job that wont pay you properly


  • #88
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    procure11 wrote: »
    Well...the question would be yours to answer.You earlier claimed that Unemployed people were entitiled to free phone rentals.I then put to you that you were either ill informed or just intentionally distorting facts to support your arguements.
    My stance ...Unemploymed people are not eligible to recieve payments for Phone rentals. Dispute it.
    No. I have better things to be doing. But you're welcome to back up your own opinion if you care that much. I'll be here waiting, on the edge of my seat.


  • #89
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Wertz wrote: »
    It's over 70's...and yes they're unemployed, since it's five years past the regular age of retirement.

    If you want to stick it to pensioners look in the direction of those in power that get ministerial pensions (some of whom have not retired) that are multiples of what people even receive as the average industrial wage, or those who can retire early from the public service and still have their pensions paid for...by the taxpayer.
    Line rental supplement is pocket money compared to the waste that is going on within government and the public services...
    Who said anything about ''sticking it to pensioners''? Way to twist my words.

    If you think €35 is pocket money then so be it. I don't, hence why I think it's a ridiculous expenditure for a country that's in recession. If you want to dispute that then please continue, I'm sure someone will care.


  • #90
    Wertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Who said anything about ''sticking it to pensioners''? Way to twist my words.

    If you think €35 is pocket money then so be it. I don't, hence why I think it's a ridiculous expenditure for a country that's in recession. If you want to dispute that then please continue, I'm sure someone will care.

    Twist your words? Note that little word there at the start of my sentence; "If"
    You're the one who went off in a tirade early into the thread throwing wild accusations around about all these groups who get [whatever supplement].
    When faced with facts about who actually gets the line rental supplement, you refus to accept it and say that pensioners shouldn't be entitled to it...I see that as "sticking it to pensioners", yes.

    FWIW I agree that paying it is ridiculous but Im coming from the side that thinks ANYONE paying line rental is f*cking ridiculous...another stealth tax, that is paid to a private company that hold the monopoly on something as vital as the provision of fixed line telecommunications, that another FF governemewnt in days of yore saw fit to privatising without a thought as to where it would leave the country down the line.

    ...and yes, in the grand scheme of things, 35 quid a month is a bloody pittance when you consider the waste that has gone on and is ongoing in all levels of this economy...


  • Advertisement
  • #91
    dimejinky99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 495 ✭✭dimejinky99


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    No. I have better things to be doing. But you're welcome to back up your own opinion if you care that much. I'll be here waiting, on the edge of my seat.

    If your posts in this thread so far are anything to go by, evidently you really don't have anything else to be doing..Back to work with you.


Advertisement
Advertisement