Becoming a Barrister?

legal eagle 1 · 02-07-2009 02:49PM #1

Hey guys,
Just looking for some opinions really, I've been doing court work experience for the last few weeks and have been absolutely fascinated by the barristers. Now i've always wanted to be a solicitor , still do have my FE1's and everything got but, still need training contract so I'm trying to examine all my possible options.
So I have about 20 questions hehe

How hard is it to become trained as a barrister?how hard are the entrance exams to Kings Inn? Is it as hard to get a master to devil with as it is to find a training contract??
(p.s please dont reply and say to change career altogether away from law, it aint going happen im afraid im in it now for the long haul)

Jo King · 02-07-2009 05:12PM

Most people who sit the entrance exams to the Kings Inns get in. Some leave however after the first one or two of the entrance exams and do not succeed. On that basis the exams are easy but one should not be complacent.
Most people who do the BL course pass out with the degree.
A pupil master is guaranteed by the Bar Council, on getting the degree so becoming a qualified barrister is not partiucularly difficult academically.

Sangre · 02-07-2009 08:09PM

Becoming a barrister and getting a master are fairly straight forward. Almost certinaly one of the easiest profession to become.

The challenge is surviving in a competitive world and supporting yourself with little or no income.

legal eagle 1 · 02-07-2009 08:25PM

Am i right in thinkin that your master doesnt pay you when you are devilling? and how exactly do you go about getting work, you dont work for a company do you? Haha these probably sound like stupid questions but i've never really given this profession a whole lot of thought!

Dante09 · 03-07-2009 10:48AM

well, leagle eagle, a good mate of mine will be called to the bar in october and i have been informed as follows:
1) the entrance exams were easy but from next sitting onwards, the pass mark will be raised from 40% to 50%. Still manageable, considering you've passed your FEs
2) the course itself is easy enough, however roughly 1/3rd of this years class have failed at least one subject and thus cannot be called to the bar until october as they have to repeat.
3) its very easy to get a master. my mate has two-one is a defense counsel and the other is a prosecutor.
4) they are not obliged to pay you but some do.
5) barristers dont work for firms, the are sole traders.
6) kings inns' is full of arrogant prats :eek:

legal eagle 1 · 03-07-2009 02:18PM

6) kings inns' is full of arrogant prats

Maybe legal eagle wants to become an arrogant prat!! I'd fit in well with the majority of solicitors than!
Thanks for the info.......lot to think about

Dante09 · 03-07-2009 02:39PM

i really dont think leagle eagle wants to become an arrogant prat as that would make him/her a typical "law girl/boy".

legal eagle 1 · 03-07-2009 05:35PM

Maybe legal eagle is changing her ways

Ok so what would the general view be out of curiousity stick with the solicitor route or examine the barrister route further?? Anyone a barrister in here?!

nuac · 03-07-2009 06:14PM

suggest wider range of options as a barrister - lecturing, writing research, other opportunities during the long holidays.

Involvement in a solicitors practice with all current regulatory requirements took up all the time and energy available

dermot_sheehan · 04-07-2009 04:05PM

I'm a barrister,

Tricky bit is not getting into the profession but survivng the first few years. No one explains how you get work, many people entering the library have contacts either through family or employment and this helps them greatly in their first few years in practice.

I had none so the bit of work I do is from solicitors that I either met devilling or saw me in court and decided to send me some.

If anyone wanted to become a barrister I'd warn them you'll be living with little or no income for many years. Even cases you win you are very slow to get paid and cashflow is a nightmare. I'd recommend working 2 to 3 years in an insurance company as a claims handler first if you wanted to reduce the number of years spent idle at the bar.

Also I can't possibly comment on what this years cohort at the inns are like but the profession does have a knack of attracting those who like the sound of their own voice.

legal eagle 1 · 05-07-2009 03:26AM

Thank u soo much 4 reply, its lovely to hear from person in the profession. Do u mind me asking why you choose to become a barrister as opposed to a solicitor???? Also are you still working? has your income become more consistent and beter and would you recommend it as a career?

Tom Young · 05-07-2009 05:56PM

I am also a Barrister, and frankly don't agree with the sentiment expressed above in relation to the King's Inns.

Like every institution, course or collective, it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the crop.

Edit: In reply to legal eagle.

My reason for going down the BL route was the training aspects and then the work. Ultimately there are vast differences in the training and the work that needs to be properly assessed before undertaking the Law Society or indeed the King's Inns route.

I'd suggest speaking to both well established Barristers - Long practicing junior or Senior Counsel and a Solicitor - Trainee and long practicing. Both will be able to express to you the difficulties and indeed the processes which they went through to get to where they are.

I'm not convinced the BL degree trains you properly for practice, possibly as it can't do so to a 100% level, but that's why junior or entering Barristers devil with a master. The course goes fairly far, but does not get into court practicalities too much.

Deviling is designed so all new entrants to learn the ropes, etiquette and processes which become second nature after a short period. This covers: Court applications, the dreadful case and motion lists (which can be really daunting), drafting, court rules, unwritten rules (e.g., colleagues and professional courtesy), client management, practice management and also ethics.

Clever and hard working people can survive in this highly competitive environment. When I say clever I don't necessarily mean academically clever, but practical and with work smarts. What Gabhain says above is all very true and it is something to be seriously evaluated before taking either route.

Benevolent parents can only be so for so long!

legal eagle 1 · 05-07-2009 05:59PM

To be truthful, i've been to college already with a lot of arrogant people who liked the sound of their own voice, so that aspect doesnt really bother me, as long as i dont become one of those type people i'll be happy

Tom Young do you enjoy your job? is it tough going as regards getting work, getting consistent income?

Tom Young · 05-07-2009 06:11PM

It's the best job going - but it has downsides. Many of which are mentioned above.

I replied in slightly more detail above.

Re. Income, there is little or no sustainable income in the first few years. But that can be remedied by lecturing, teaching, writing etc. I think the Bar Council modified rules so that part-time work could be undertaken, but there is a caveat on that. I believe it is something like 'suitable' part time work. This was changed to address concerns over poverty.

legal eagle 1 · 05-07-2009 06:16PM

Thank you Tom for your replies, i really appreciate it. Ya I'm going try and talk to some barristers and see can I get a better insight into the job/work/hardship etc. Its giving me a lot to think about thank you!

maidhc · 05-07-2009 10:15PM

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

Thank you Tom for your replies, i really appreciate it. Ya I'm going try and talk to some barristers and see can I get a better insight into the job/work/hardship etc. Its giving me a lot to think about thank you!

I'm a solicitor, and while it has little to commend it at the moment, I think being a barrister must be worse. I'm almost 27, qualified since last december and one of the few of my class with a job, even though the money is rubbish.

From those who went to college with me and became barristers perhaps one has some hope of actually surviving in the profession.

Into the future I can't see things improving. While there will always be a market for barristers who specialise in particular niche areas, I think more and more solicitors are becoming less reliant on barristers as they tend to be quite well educated themselves after passing the FE exams and in many cases having LLMs and other qualifications.

Remmy · 08-07-2009 08:50PM

Hi I have been reading this thread with great interest.I too am interested in a career in this field.I know one solicitor through a friend and will try and sit down to talk to him in the next few weeks.

Do Barristers get paid on a case by case basis?

macy9 · 08-07-2009 10:33PM

maidhc wrote: »

Into the future I can't see things improving. While there will always be a market for barristers who specialise in particular niche areas,

Just wondering what niche areas are particularly sought after these days

by firms as Im trying to get myself into one!

Tom Young · 08-07-2009 11:20PM

Remmy wrote: »

Do Barristers get paid on a case by case basis?

Anecdotally many aren't getting paid at all at the moment, due to the state of the market.

They get paid brief fees, generally on a case after it has run, but would be entitled to fees along the way. It does really depend on the focus of the practice e.g., crime or civil law. Fundamentally, work may not be paid for until after the case.

Evaluate any decision re. Bar very carefully. It's a highly competitive environment.

Tom

Remmy · 09-07-2009 02:05AM

Thanks for the reply!Im nowhere knowledgeable enough yet in how the two career paths differ.

In a sense would I be correct in saying that the career of a Barrister is higher risk but a better payoff in the long-run compared to the solcitor?I know nothing is secure in this climate.

also aside from wiki is there any online libraries where I could learn more about law.Or if there is any widely known texts that could be found in a library?

maidhc · 09-07-2009 03:11PM

macy9 wrote: »

Just wondering what niche areas are particularly sought after these days by firms as Im trying to get myself into one!

There are none that I know of. I spend most of my time "fixing" old files, i.e. dusting off old litigation and conveyacing files that went off the rails.

Sangre · 09-07-2009 07:49PM

macy9 wrote: »

Just wondering what niche areas are particularly sought after these days by firms as Im trying to get myself into one!

Insolvency, employment, banking& finance, litigation. Of course, firms are seeking lawyers with PQE in these areas, not trainees. Most firms don't care if you're specialised. Specialisation means nothing to them without practical experience.

IT Loser · 09-07-2009 08:13PM

Tom Young wrote: »

Anecdotally many aren't getting paid at all at the moment, due to the state of the market.

They get paid brief fees, generally on a case after it has run, but would be entitled to fees along the way. It does really depend on the focus of the practice e.g., crime or civil law. Fundamentally, work may not be paid for until after the case.

Evaluate any decision re. Bar very carefully. It's a highly competitive environment.

Tom

I am 30 years of age. Hard as you like, not much into the "social scene" {the drinking and the high living aspect anyways} will argue {as you have seen:p} until the justice slaps 30 day stint for contempt on me. Have a law degree. Can surive on enough to pay my rent. Will sit on the door of the court and ask young lads do they need rep. I am very well versed in Labour law, Criminal law, Family Law, Human Rights law.

Should I have a crack at the Bar, or the Law Soc??

When you say "competitive".....I understand what you are saying, as I have heard it first hand from Barrister pals, but just how competitive....would you be dying for a bite to eat, or just not have the money for that new car??

IT Loser · 09-07-2009 08:14PM

Sangre wrote: »

Insolvency, employment, banking& finance, litigation. Of course, firms are seeking lawyers with PQE in these areas, not trainees. Most firms don't care if you're specialised. Specialisation means nothing to them without practical experience.

How do you get practical experience as a young barrister??

fliptzer · 09-07-2009 11:30PM

I’ve just finished the first year diploma in the Kings and found it more enjoyable then I thought, yes it is hard work and we’ve been told the full time degree course is even tougher and it can’t teach you everything. Just finished all the criminal law etc I’m ever going to learn and it’s pretty daunting that there’s so much left but guess they can’t hodl your hand all the way. Lol.
Looking forward to the degree but have been warned that there is very little work and don’t expect to get a decent standard of living for about 5 years, don’t know how true that is but the new graduates are expecting it to be tough.

IT Loser · 09-07-2009 11:52PM

fliptzer wrote: »

I’ve just finished the first year diploma in the Kings and found it more enjoyable then I thought, yes it is hard work and we’ve been told the full time degree course is even tougher and it can’t teach you everything. Just finished all the criminal law etc I’m ever going to learn and it’s pretty daunting that there’s so much left but guess they can’t hodl your hand all the way. Lol.
Looking forward to the degree but have been warned that there is very little work and don’t expect to get a decent standard of living for about 5 years, don’t know how true that is but the new graduates are expecting it to be tough.

You see, can someone tell me what constitutes a "decent standard of living"???

Is it a house on Carysfort Avenue? Or is it just barely avoiding the workhouse??

Do you have to scrabble for work like men shaping on the waterfront, or is it a bit more dignified.??

How insular is the profession? Is it one of these "everyone knows everyone" scenarios?

maidhc · 10-07-2009 11:53AM

IT Loser wrote: »

You see, can someone tell me what constitutes a "decent standard of living"???

Earning more than the dole.

Seriously.

legal eagle 1 · 10-07-2009 12:27PM

IT Loser I think your putting too much focus on how much you are going earn as a Barrister and not enough focus on whether in fact you really want to become one!

IT Loser · 10-07-2009 12:28PM

maidhc wrote: »

Earning more than the dole.

Seriously.

Sure. That would be a start mind you.

Tell you the truth- I dont give a toss about the money anymore.

I just like knowing the rules and having a clean suit, being in shape and being able, every day, to go about some sort of worthwhile endeavour.

The money can wait.

IT Loser · 10-07-2009 12:28PM

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

IT Loser I think your putting too much focus on how much you are going earn as a Barrister and not enough focus on whether in fact you really want to become one!

Not at all.

I just dont want to be left penniless.

€400 a week, can I clear that much at least?

legal eagle 1 · 10-07-2009 12:37PM

Apologises but, every post from you seems to be regarding money and wages!
I think the point most people are making is that for most weeks you may not see a penny and than for others you may see a lot of your outstanding bills paid, personally i think its a profession where you need good budgetary skills!Its a self employed job after all

Becoming a Barrister?

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