Last few days for scumbags crinimals

Bottle_of_Smoke · 01-07-2009 01:13PM

I'm not joining the bleeding hearts brigade and I support most of the bill, but people being tried in the Special Criminal Courts is pointless in my opinion.

We have a real problem with gangs intimidating witnesses. This won't be changed by having the trials in the special criminal courts.

As far as I know, the same issue doesn't exist for jury intimidation,and I would have thought there's easier ways to get around that.

Anyone think its just a move by the justice department to make it look like they're doing something?

WindSock · 01-07-2009 01:19PM

Good-oh. Now there'll just be more little ****bags to fill their place when they are locked up. Then there'll be more gangstars than eva.

Wazdakka · 01-07-2009 01:22PM

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Anyone think its just a move by the justice department to make it look like they're doing something?

Egad's no..
Something passed through irish legislation that is controversial, Just to look like the powers that be are trying to do something productive without really trying...

:eek:

Say it aint so..

D Audio Tripper · 01-07-2009 01:23PM

Spudmonkey wrote: »

What sickens me is the humans rights crowd up in arms over these poor people... but there wasn't sight nor sound of them when poor Roy Collins, Shane Geoghegan etc were killed...

Have you seen the youtube video these idiots, who are apparently responsible for Roy Collins' murder posted?

I_am_Jebus · 01-07-2009 01:24PM

We have a country in economic crises, large capital/infrastructural programmes are being curbed etc... because of costs and all the rest.

The Bill is grand I've no issues with it but jesus we have to start looking at the bigger fecking picture in this country.

Why should scum be thrown into prison (with measley sentences for horrific crimes) and be allowed to educate themselves, play pool, watch tv, sit around and get free living for x number of years.

Why the hell are they not chain ganged and put out to do manual labour assisting the state/community in various projects. Fair enough, projects like road building, metro lines, luas tracks etc... requires specialised/qualified people to undertake certain aspects of the job but there's plenty of manual labour involved too. The state could save plenty of money on large capital projects this way.

These scum should be MADE give somethin back to the community from which they've stole from. At the moment, they sit in prison, make no repayment contribution to society and continue to take from it by getting free food, education and living quarters.

carlybabe1 · 01-07-2009 01:27PM

[cm]tyranny wrote: »

Yes, beggars belief that this is going through...

Ireland is about to become a VERY dangerous place...

Yes, if you're a GANGSTER OR CRIMINAL!!!! :rolleyes:

It might just get less dangerous for all the law abiding non-scum

BeerWolf · 01-07-2009 01:46PM

Now we're going to start seeing fashionable 'hoodies'.

thelordofcheese · 01-07-2009 01:47PM

carlybabe1 wrote: »

Yes, if you're a GANGSTER OR CRIMINAL!!!! :rolleyes:

It might just get less dangerous for all the law abiding non-scum

Your naivety warms the cockles of my heart. I mean your so wrong it's painful, and this is a dangerous erosion of civil liberties, but i can't be mad at you. It'd be like kicking a puppy.

And i mean if two people were around while i kicked said pup--- I AGREE TOTALLY WITH THIS LAW

YOURS SINCERELY
DUKEOFDAIRYPRODUCTS

ejmaztec · 01-07-2009 01:49PM

It would be a lot cheaper were they to have scumbag re-cycling bins. They could make Soylent Scumbag Green and this could be used in the value ranges sold in supermarkets.

kumate_champ07 · 01-07-2009 01:51PM

solice wrote: »

So if you are walking down the street in your white shiny tracksuit and a guard passes, he wont say anything to you unless you are a memeber of the criminal gang.

Lock em up, lock all those scumbags up!

unless *he says* you are a memeber of the criminal gang.

where should we look up all the scumbags?
it costs more to lock them up than it does to pay them their dole and rent.
house arrest might be a good idea for minor crimes, do they do that in ireland with the tags?

kumate_champ07 · 01-07-2009 01:56PM

it can be of benefit for them to go to prison. they then have an excuse for not finding work and dont get any hassle from the welfare officers anymore.
"nobody will hire me cos i did time in the 'joy"

Purple Gorilla · 01-07-2009 02:18PM

People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.- Ben Franklin

Fighting Irish · 01-07-2009 02:49PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

people giving out about this - what do you think we should do? NOT get tougher on crime?

:pac:

billy the squid · 01-07-2009 02:49PM

Can we expect to see the likes of the Shell to Sea protesters dragged before the Special Criminal Court thanks to this new legislation

peasant · 01-07-2009 02:55PM

billy the squid wrote: »

Can we expect to see the likes of the Shell to Sea protesters dragged before the Special Criminal Court thanks to this new legislation

It would certainly seem to make it possible

Purple Gorilla · 01-07-2009 03:06PM

Also, is this law not unconstitutional?

Freedom of Assembly is guaranteed by Article 40.6.1 in the BnaE so how do they plan to arrest some groups of 3 or more people?

bernardo mac · 01-07-2009 03:11PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

It would be a lot cheaper were they to have scumbag re-cycling bins. They could make Soylent Scumbag Green and this could be used in the value ranges sold in supermarkets.

Good idea but not for me.Saw a gang of 'em U tube with BMW [since crashed]issuing threats,acting out the execution of a rival.Sick lot,definitely mentally and morally diseased.Might feed the Scumbag Green to dog[no,too much respect for the dog]To the pigs? dodgy,government regulations,health risk.:eek::D

kumate_champ07 · 01-07-2009 03:14PM

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

Also, is this law not unconstitutional?

Freedom of Assembly is guaranteed by Article 40.6.1 in the BnaE so how do they plan to arrest some groups of 3 or more people?

if some people in the 'gang' have been arrested im sure they would consider that a criminal gang and any member in that 'gang' can be arrested, i can see it being used against shell to sea.

giving away your natural resources to other countries for free and bailing out greedy corrupt banks is ok tho.

My name is URL · 01-07-2009 03:15PM

Anyone that thinks that signing away a degree of your civil liberty for the purpose of apprehending a tiny minority of criminals is a small minded prat

Purple Gorilla · 01-07-2009 03:33PM

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

if some people in the 'gang' have been arrested im sure they would consider that a criminal gang and any member in that 'gang' can be arrested, i can see it being used against shell to sea.

I guess we're lucky that the BnaE also guarantees Freedom of Association in Article 40.6

I_am_Jebus · 01-07-2009 03:51PM

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

if some people in the 'gang' have been arrested im sure they would consider that a criminal gang and any member in that 'gang' can be arrested, i can see it being used against shell to sea.

giving away your natural resources to other countries for free and bailing out greedy corrupt banks is ok tho.

Yeah and I am sure degenerate, lay about troublemakers who cause criminal damage, waste Garda and public resources are ok too...

Would be more than happy to see it used on them.

topper75 · 01-07-2009 04:02PM

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.- Ben Franklin

I'm sure Ben makes perfect sense when typing up in some leafy lane of Dun Laoghaire Rathdown.

In what way do I lose my freedom if the Gardai have stronger powers in prosecuting gange members? You think they will come looking for me next? You think they will come looking for you? You really believe that? You believe that is what these new laws about?

If your biggest problem is some ideological concern about freedom and civil liberties, then you got it good my friend.

You got it a lot better than the couple raising young kids on a Southside Limerick Corpo housing estate where gang-aligned teenage brats sit on your front wall all day, drinking and listening to gangsta rap, riding piebalds across rubbish-strewn greens and threatening your life (not in a joking way) if you say or do anything against them. Enough is enough.

Purple Gorilla · 01-07-2009 04:24PM

topper75 wrote: »

I'm sure Ben makes perfect sense when typing up in some leafy lane of Dun Laoghaire Rathdown.

In what way do I lose my freedom if the Gardai have stronger powers in prosecuting gange members? You think they will come looking for me next? You think they will come looking for you? You really believe that? You believe that is what these new laws about?

If your biggest problem is some ideological concern about freedom and civil liberties, then you got it good my friend.

You got it a lot better than the couple raising young kids on a Southside Limerick Corpo housing estate where gang-aligned teenage brats sit on your front wall all day, drinking and listening to gangsta rap, riding piebalds across rubbish-strewn greens and threatening your life (not in a joking way) if you say or do anything against them. Enough is enough.

So your willing to give the Gardaí powers to arrest groups of 3 or more, at their own discretion?

In that case, if it's as bad as you say, then why don't we bring in a curfew?

Sure, this sounds good in theory but usually these sort of things are terrible in practice.
I mean, it's a law that means you can be arrested for being in a group! Is this Ireland or Iran? :rolleyes:

bobbyjoe · 01-07-2009 04:32PM

Most laws end up being abused in the end. I wanna see the end of these gangs as much as anyone but do we really need such draconian laws which could end up being applied to all kinds of stuff later on.

Doodee · 01-07-2009 04:32PM

I would rather see all the faults currently happening with the Garda being resolved rather than giving more power to them.

Firstly they should be brought into the age of technology and reform some of the current processes.
I would support the bill if it allowed only specialist Garda to arrest at discretion. That way they are responsible for their judgments’ based on their title.

bernardo mac · 01-07-2009 04:35PM

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

Also, is this law not unconstitutional?

Freedom of Assembly is guaranteed by Article 40.6.1 in the BnaE so how do they plan to arrest some groups of 3 or more people?

The constitutionality of the new laws will be questioned,certainly by a well known solicitor in Limerick,but it is a law abiding citizen's absolute constitutional right to live safely,securely in his/her home and to go about one's daily business unhindered,unmolested.These extreme measures are deemed necessary to tackle the anarchic activity of a formidable criminal force.That is well documented and the consequent lawlessness that has been spawned by the gang's seeming victories has to be challenged with legal muscle and defeated.The street thug must learn to respect, obey and fear the law.[Goes for the swindler in business too.]The pensioner must feel safe walking to or from the local Post Office.Ordinary,daily activity has become hazardous in some localities.This legislation has come too late for grieving families but for those who hold no allegiance to the state,its laws or respect for its citizens, only contempt by their criminal actions, these legal measures will, hopefully,counter and crush their Treason.Maybe,at last ,the State has declared war on Crime.

ProjectColossus · 01-07-2009 04:54PM

Potentially any 3 people in a group? Sounds a lot like a scene from Monkey Island 4...

Skip to 3.57

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rei44OJU5Y4

Although I quite like the idea of firing cannons at scumbags.

On a more serious note, I think the idea in general is probably a good one, but needs to be 'tightened up' a bit, as somebody else suggested, perhaps only more senior gardai should be wielding this kind of power. Even then there definetaly seems to be a risk of this power being abused.

TwoShedsJackson · 01-07-2009 04:55PM

I'm all for cracking down on scumbags but what they need to be doing is not letting the fu<kers out early in the first place.

This new bill, letting Gardai (or even just one Guard) decide which collection of 3 or more people constitutes a gang, sound dangerous and unconstitutional.

As for making it easier to prosecute and jail them by having a special court with no juries, it's not jury intimidation that's the problem, it's witness intimidation - the people who actually see these scumbags committing their crimes or terrorising their areas. They should be concentrating on that.

thelordofcheese · 01-07-2009 04:56PM

topper75 wrote: »

I'm sure Ben makes perfect sense when typing up in some leafy lane of Dun Laoghaire Rathdown.

In what way do I lose my freedom if the Gardai have stronger powers in prosecuting gange members? You think they will come looking for me next? You think they will come looking for you? You really believe that? You believe that is what these new laws about?

If your biggest problem is some ideological concern about freedom and civil liberties, then you got it good my friend.

You got it a lot better than the couple raising young kids on a Southside Limerick Corpo housing estate where gang-aligned teenage brats sit on your front wall all day, drinking and listening to gangsta rap, riding piebalds across rubbish-strewn greens and threatening your life (not in a joking way) if you say or do anything against them. Enough is enough.

Except he's right and you're making a brazen appeal to fear.

Snowie · 01-07-2009 05:03PM

i dont think thats going to affect knacker's i think its more aimed at oragaised crime Ie people smugeling, drugs, counterfit etc...

Last few days for scumbags crinimals

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