Wilderness EMFR Course

sgthighway · 24-05-2009 11:48PM

A friend of a friend from the West did this course in Wales.
Don't know why he went to Wales but he is on hols so can't ask straight away

lrd90 · 30-06-2009 05:42PM

Gil_Dub wrote: »

Apologies for yet another reply but I've recently seen something that suggests potential students for this type of training should be even more aware of what's going on in the local wilderness first aid training marketplace.

There are many providers out there offering wilderness first aid training, many with their own interpretations of someone elses syllabus, and many who in my personal opinion are not sufficiently skilled or experienced in practicing wilderness first aid to deliver this type of training.

I've recently seen first aid training providers here in Ireland imply that they provide training to mountain rescue teams or by proxy team members operating in their roles as MRT members, when I know for a fact that they don't.

Sadly, there are a few Walter Mitty type characters out there who will happily hype up their fleeting past involvement with the emergency services in an attempt to lend credibility to what they do now...and mountain rescue unfortunately doesn't escape their occurance.

From my personal experience (and take note that this is all personal commentary, as is everything I post here on boards), mountain rescue people here in Ireland generally adhere to either the Remote/Rescue Emergency Care or PHECC first responder recognised syllabus and protocols.

As teams and individuals with a keen focus on skills development, we would supplement that initial training with specialist courses here in Ireland and abroad, for example PHECC MFR/EMT, WEMSI W-EMT/WFR, ECMR Basic/Advanced etc.

Whether we're talking about REC, PHECC basic certifications or more specialised training, it's important to note that a mountain rescue team or member operating in their capacity as a team member (as opposed to doing something on their own initiative, time and funding) here is highly unlikely to use any old joe bloggs first aid trainer to address their training needs....

Just because a trainer or provider follows a syllabus that's used overseas by mountain rescue teams (in the USA or Canada for example), that doesn't mean any mountain rescue team here would necessarily endorse that trainer or provider, or indeed their adoption of a particular syllabus. But that's what some providers here in Ireland imply, deliberately misleading prospective students and the public at large.

If you want to ensure you're getting the level of wilderness/outdoor first aid training that you will KNOW a mountain rescue team member would receive, delivered to the same standards an MRT would demand, look for a REC course delivered by a registered and certified provider.

If the course you're signing up for isn't certified by either Remote or Rescue Emergency Care (the bodies, not just a line on the cert), then it's likely not what your local MRT would invest in and in my opinion, neither should you. A certificate for wilderness first aid that's not recognised by the likes of Mountaineering Ireland or the Canoe Union in my opinion as a keen outdoor sports head isn't worth the paper it's printed on, so why settle for it when these providers will charge just as much as you'd pay to receive a recognised REC cert?

I don't like to see people misled, especially not by those who think it's okay to tack 'mountain rescue' onto their product description to mislead others. Bad form indeed.

Gil

Gil_Dub raises some important points about first aid training that people should be more aware of. However there are some points I would like to raise.

There are accredited and approved providers of Wilderness First Aid training in Ireland, who are qualified and experienced.
There are several different "outdoor" first aid schemes, and not just REC or WFA. However the only ones that are recognised by the ICU and the MCI/MI are REC and WFA.
There are WFA providers providing training to mountain rescue teams.
Not all mountain rescue teams use the REC schemes. Some teams use their own adapted training, WFA and PHECC EFR/EMT.
There are WFA providers who have provided training to many MCI/MI and ICU members and instructors.

People should be careful with language/generalisations when posting. I think this is even more important when promoting a particular product, brand or scheme as it can be very easy to damage the reputation of other genuine providers.

There are cowboys in all walks of life, but I can assure you that there are genuine active providers of WFA who are offended by some of the comments in Gil_Dub's post.

Regards,
lrd90

Shield · 02-07-2009 09:31PM

lrd90 wrote: »

There are cowboys in all walks of life, but I can assure you that there are genuine active providers of WFA who are offended by some of the comments in Gil_Dub's post.

If anyone is offended, let them come on here and speak their mind. It's a discussion forum and Gil has made it quite clear that this is his personal experience and personal opinion.

Other people who have different views are entitled to come on and challenge him over his statements, as long as it's done in a civil and respectful manner.

Please also check your private messages lrd90.

BeardyGit · 05-07-2009 12:46AM

@ LRD90 - Absolutely agree that there are MRT's who adapt a syllabus in conjunction with a training provider to deliver what they need, and quite rightly so.

My point was made in relation to members of the general public who are seeking a wilderness type first aid training provider, and who may be misled by providers who openly suggest they deliver a mountain rescue adopted course here in Ireland, when they quite simply don't. So, my personal experience suggests that if someone wanted a 'safe bet', that REC would be a good starting point....that's all. I said that because I understand the way REC providers are signed off to deliver training, develop the syllabus etc.

I'm all in favour of any other suggestions or recommendations for suitable courses to be made - My own experience is just that, my own, and personal experience will never be exhaustive for any of us. There's always something that can be added by another party. Likewise, if you're in a position to identify another training scheme which in your personal experience meets the needs of Joe Public, I'd be happy to take the suggestion....

If I've caused offence inadvertently, I certainly apologise for doing so, but would politely suggest you re-read my contribution in the above context.

All the best,

Gil

IPNA · 11-07-2009 09:36AM

Gil_Dub wrote: »

My point was made in relation to members of the general public who are seeking a wilderness type first aid training provider, and who may be misled by providers who openly suggest they deliver a mountain rescue adopted course here in Ireland, Gil

As a provider for both the Wilderness First Aid and the Wilderness First Responder courses here in Kerry, I want to add my comments.

I agree with Gil that providers should not claim to give a mountain rescue curriculum if they are not certified to do so.

Here at IPNA, we offer a curriculum certified by the Wilderness Medical Society (wms.org), and slightly tailor it for the Irish environment.

It is the utmost importance for providers of outdoor education and first aid to be honest and show integrity about their curriculum. Word of mouth is by far the largest means for us to get students. A lack of integrity would end our student enrollment.

Another issue that we are dealing with is how to apply wilderness first aid training into an Irish context. In North America where I received all of my training from, there are hundreds of miles of wild places where the first responder will be acting on their own for days at a time.
Here is Ireland, even here in South Kerry, there are few places where you would find yourself where you are further than one hour from definitive care.

I would like to here what people think about the application of "Wilderness Protocols" here in Ireland.

Thanks,
Aebhric

Mycroft H · 01-08-2011 10:04PM

Sorry for dragging this up but there is plenty of places in Ireland where you can be more then one hour from effective pre hospital care even, caving is a prime example of this.

In caving situations we could be many hours even days from effective pre hospital care and here is where the wilderness emergency personelle step in, treating and stabilising patients to the best of their abilities in a hostile environment

BoonDoc · 16-08-2011 10:01PM

BX 19 wrote: »

there is plenty of places in Ireland where you can be more then one hour from effective pre hospital care even

Why is there not more of an awareness for the need for Wilderness protocols from PHECC or the hillwalking groups?

Every other country that I have travelled to has some sort of Wilderness First Aid requirement for hillwalkers or outdoor types.

Where is Ireland in all of this?

maglite · 18-08-2011 09:02PM

MCI have provision for REC in MS and ML courses. What more do you want? PHECC does't stop people like MRTs and ICRA operating to the International EMT-W standard.

BoonDoc · 20-09-2011 05:56AM

maglite wrote: »

MCI have provision for REC in MS and ML courses. What more do you want? PHECC does't stop people like MRTs and ICRA operating to the International EMT-W standard.

The international Wilderness EMT standard includes the full EMT-Basic course along with city based certification. In the US and Canada you have to hold a full EMT license as well as your Wilderness certs.

That requirement is not here in Ireland.

Wilderness EMFR Course

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