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Poker Boards Discussion thread... (BBV thread)

  • 15-06-2009 3:47am
    #1
    ocallagh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,140 ✭✭✭


    sceptre wrote: »
    Yeah, Feedback. Or the Help Desk, though you could all contribute to one thread in Feedback. If it takes it out of this thread, because it's not helping its existence by being in this thread, take it to a single thread there. Taking over this thread with the complaints/protest is effectively thread-spoiling for those who want this BBV thread to be available to them.
    As such we have somehere to discuss the matter. I would encourage anyone who regularly posts in the BBV to make their points here
    Post edited by Shield on


«134567…10

Comments

  • #2
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,930 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Can an admin go to the old BBV thread now and just post there that its definitely not going to return to the poker forum.

    I reckon that will sort everything out.;)


  • #3
    Macspower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭Macspower


    I request that this thread be left open and is not locked like every other attempt to discuss the poker forum.

    To Admins and Mods and Devore/Tom Murphy

    As you are well aware you had a problem with a few posters in the poker forum and you took action against the whole poker community instead of against the few individuals.. You then refused to discuss the matter by locking every attempt to resolve the matter.

    I was glad to see at least an attempt of a return to normality tonight when Devore opened a new BBV... Many posters including myself are not happy with this resolution and wish to have the old thread returned..

    For those of you not familiar with the BBV it is the heart of the poker forum where the poker community can discuss all aspects of life and poker in general.. it was probably one of the busiest threads on boards and it's where the character of the poker forum evolved from...

    No one is in dispute that some of the guys on the poker forum trolled another forum and shoudl have to answer for that.. In fact see Kayroo's earlier thread on the helpdesk where he openly admited to it and agreed to accept the consequences for it.

    One other very serious issue for me was tonight modding of the poker forum by non poker mods that really have no idea what it's all about...

    I made this post in reply to a mod at one stage and found it deleted
    Kinetic^ wrote: »
    Lads, if you can not follow this the thread is going to get scrapped again. Please wait till Dev is online again tomorrow so that the poker mods can discuss it with him. No more posting about the old BBV thread or the moderators/admins until you hear back from the mods or Dev. Thread has been cleaned up.

    I replied

    With all respect, you know nothing about us here or our community...

    The disrespect we've been shown over the last few days by admins and mods from outside this community has been nothing short of insulting...

    I'm truely sick of being threatened by bans/locks on every attempt to rectify the matter...

    please set up a help thread or somewhere the matter can be discussed with dev or whoever is calling the shots...

    We will make our points then in a civil and logical way ...

    telling us to shut up will only make the matters worse..

    I am willing to enter discussion about the matter but every attempt is deleted/locked. While I was never under any illusion that boards was a democracy but it's certainly not a faciest dictatorship...

    Mods/admins/Devore.. please listen to the people that post on your forums.. without them there would be no forum

    leave this thread open and reply in a respectful manner to our concerns..

    I know I have more concerns which I will post later but so have a lot of others that you have tried to silence as well

    Let us argue the point in an open thread and come to a conclusion..


  • #4
    Macspower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭Macspower


    great minds think alike... I just opened one as well ... said a few more words though...

    guess mods will link them for us..


  • #5
    sceptre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    Threads merged. Unless there's a reason for two, there's only a need for one.


  • #6
    Macspower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭Macspower


    sceptre wrote: »
    Threads merged. Unless there's a reason for two, there's only a need for one.

    agreed.. I think we cross posted..

    anyway enough for one night.... lets see how this pans out tomorrow


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  • #7
    cooker3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,646 ✭✭✭cooker3


    sceptre wrote: »
    Threads merged. Unless there's a reason for two, there's only a need for one.

    Cheers


  • #8
    ocallagh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,140 ✭✭✭ocallagh


    For reasons stated previously
    1) It contains a lot of useful searchable data
    2) A lot of people contributed hours/days/1000's of posts and this has some sentimental value
    3) It still feels like the community is getting punished and I'd prefer to see site bans/warnings to individuals rather than have everyone suffer.
    4) Having a new BBV thread at some level insinuates that the old one was wrong or deserves to be in the recylce bin. It does not. As mentioned above some individuals deserve that but not the thread itself.

    I believe there is a case for reinstating the old BBV thread.


  • #9
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    If one of the poker mods could pm me the posts of mine that were deleted from the "new" BBV thread from tonight, it'd be much appreciated.


  • #10
    Wolves
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Wolves


    This is pretty basic really. The BBV was locked/removed and obviously most if not all people who used it were a bit annoyed. The reasoning behind this seemed sketchy at best and the whole thing was blown way out of proportion and that was the main reason for heated responses from members.

    Anyone who has seen these responses knows that basically everyone is in agreement over this and maybe it's time for mods to realise that so many people are not causing a fuss just to wind them up.

    While there were some posts which may have been offensive and deserved to be deleted it also didn't help when reasonable viewpoints were deleted for no apparent reason.

    In short the whole thing has descended into a farce and the censorship is really over the top.


  • #11
    Wolves
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Wolves


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Can an admin go to the old BBV thread now and just post there that its definitely not going to return to the poker forum.

    I reckon that will sort everything out.;)

    Also this is just not smart.


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  • #12
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,930 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Wolves wrote: »
    Also this is just not smart.
    Quite obvious you didn't catch the inner meaning of it. Its a bbv thing.


  • #13
    Wolves
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Wolves


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Quite obvious you didn't catch the inner meaning of it. Its a bbv thing.

    Yes i caught it but anyone who doesn't read the BBV but does look at feedback won't. As i think you agree with the rest of us it just didn't seem like a bright idea to me.


  • #14
    randylonghorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,509 ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Quite obvious you didn't catch the inner meaning of it. Its a bbv thing.
    That thing about whatever is posted / team backed / player supported, it jinxes them and the opposite happens? :D

    I geddit! :p


  • #15
    Lafortezza
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭Lafortezza


    From this poker mods point of view, the only thing I am really concerned about is the fact that every single poker forum poster is getting disciplined for the actions of a few. It's nothing to do with me what happens individually to the posters who invaded TCN in terms of sitebans/bans.

    It's not as if the attack on TCN was covertly organised and can't be traced back to individuals. Yet everyone on poker is punished. Doesn't make sense at all and it is pretty damaging to the community.
    ocallagh wrote:
    1) It contains a lot of useful searchable data
    2) A lot of people contributed hours/days/1000's of posts and this has some sentimental value
    3) It still feels like the community is getting punished and I'd prefer to see site bans/warnings to individuals rather than have everyone suffer.
    4) Having a new BBV thread at some level insinuates that the old one was wrong or deserves to be in the recylce bin. It does not. As mentioned above some individuals deserve that but not the thread itself.
    These four points are essentially what it boils down to.

    Personally I'd like to have the old BBV back, but if it is not returned in place of the new BBV then so be it, the poker forum will carry on.
    The danger to the poker forum and its community is that many many members feel that this whole situation has been dealt with very unfairly and without transparency, and that all members are being punished for the f-ups of a few.


  • #16
    RoundTower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭RoundTower


    A lot of people have posted stuff along the lines of "well it was just a few bad apples, why punish the whole poker forum?" This is missing the point. The Cuckoo's Nest thing is just a tipping point, many people outside the poker forum hate the idea of the BBV thread and this is an opportunity for them to lobby for it to be gone.

    Think of it this way. Suppose you're the moderator of the notoriously contentious and juvenile Badminton forum on a popular site like tables.ie. You don't actually play badminton or follow any professional badminton, but what really gets you wet is the power to ban people you don't like safe in the knowledge the other badminton mods will have your back. Now suppose you see hundreds of badminton-related posts in the the poker forum, particularly when there's a big event like the Badminton League of Champions, many of which would be grounds for a banning under your capricious rules.

    Do you not think you would feel a little premenstrual when you realised that these posts were being allowed in the poker forum, a place where you had no control, but that if they had to be moved to your forum you would get to feel that tingly feeling you haven't felt outside the internet since 2003?

    Now -- this is important -- I'm not saying the current badminton mods on boards are like this. In fact I know the majority of mods aren't like this at all. But if there are a few vocal mods like this who complain about the toys their friends are getting, you can see how there could be pressure on the likes of DeV not to allow the BBV thread.


  • #17
    Gillybean72
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Gillybean72


    It took me 2 years to get the paltry 800+ posts and now back to 600+ mega mega peed I dont feel like really coming back to the new BBV, its lost it's charm. But the losing the post count is just the pits. see ya :)


  • #18
    RoundTower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭RoundTower


    Alternatively, suppose you're the moderator of the interesting, but dwindling Red Wine forum on the same website. You're not petty like the previous mod. You really do have a passion for wine tasting and discussion, and treat the posters there with respect, but your self-worth is partly unhealthily tied to the health of the forum you mod. Sadly your forum has lost popularity in the last twelve months, not due to anything you did but because more people have less money are just happy to buy a €6 bottle of plonk. Now you see hundreds of posts in the poker forum about red wine. You think that if these posts were part of your forum you might rejuvenate discussion. Never mind the fact that these posts would never have happened in your forum if there was no poker forum at all -- mightn't you feel a bit jealous and resentful?

    Once again I'm not saying the current red wine mods are like this. But it's extremely clear that there are forces outside the poker forum who do not like the BBV thread in any form, and I'm trying to show some reasons why.


  • #19
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    lafortezza wrote: »
    From this poker mods point of view, the only thing I am really concerned about is the fact that every single poker forum poster is getting disciplined for the actions of a few. It's nothing to do with me what happens individually to the posters who invaded TCN in terms of sitebans/bans.

    It's not as if the attack on TCN was covertly organised and can't be traced back to individuals. Yet everyone on poker is punished. Doesn't make sense at all and it is pretty damaging to the community.

    Considering that this is not the first time something like this has happened from that thread, considering that, then from our point of view, a stand must be made.
    Appalling behaviour by some people and not the first time.

    If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
    If the whole community is suffering because of a few people, will they allow this to happen again or will they actually do something the next time around?
    Most communities tend to deal with their trouble makers, time for the Poker forum to do the same.

    You will not be getting your old thread back.
    DeV has started a new one and you can use that.
    Be aware the if this happens again, you run the risk of not having one at all.
    I suggest you all take that on board for next time so you do not stand by and allow a few people ruin your forum.


  • #20
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    RoundTower wrote: »
    . The Cuckoo's Nest thing is just a tipping point, many people outside the poker forum hate the idea of the BBV thread and this is an opportunity for them to lobby for it to be gone.

    What in Thors name are you talking about?

    There has been no lobby anywhere that I am aware of.
    This was an Admin decision.
    A decision made by Admins.
    There was no outside influence whatsoever.

    That thread is gone for the exact reasons I have already stated above.

    Should I move your post to the CT forum? :)


  • #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The "count to a million" thread in tCN is, like almost all of the threads there, a bit of fun.

    Nothing more, nothing less.

    In the year it's been running it has crept up the "most posts" statistics list, recently overtaking the bbv thread has been an achievable objective.

    Last week there was less than 500 posts in it!

    Then the thread started "racing" the count to a million thread :)
    That is when the spoiling began,
    It appears that the competative streak in some poker posters overtook their sense of fair play.


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  • #22
    Killme00
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    Considering that this is not the first time something like this has happened from that thread, considering that, then from our point of view, a stand must be made.
    Appalling behaviour by some people and not the first time.

    If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
    If the whole community is suffering because of a few people, will they allow this to happen again or will they actually do something the next time around?
    Most communities tend to deal with their trouble makers, time for the Poker forum to do the same.

    You will not be getting your old thread back.
    DeV has started a new one and you can use that.
    Be aware the if this happens again, you run the risk of not having one at all.
    I suggest you all take that on board for next time so you do not stand by and allow a few people ruin your forum.

    Thats a load of bollocks.


  • #23
    Blured
    Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭Blured


    I just wanted to speak up for a different type of BBV reader - and that is the lurker.

    I used to play a bit of live/on-line poker, but don't really anymore. I still check the Poker Forum though and the only reason I do this is the BBV. For people looking in from the outside it may be a be cliquly (sp?) but for anyone who has read it since its beginning, it is without doubt the best thread on boards.

    I may not post that often there - I think I have maybe 5 posts in the BBV, but I do not think I am alone in my lurking in that thread. If the Poker forum (or boards) loses that thread I honestly think it will be a poorer place to be.

    Just wanted to give the point of view of someone not really in the "Community" but someone who definitely gets entertainment from the BBV


  • #24
    El Stuntman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭El Stuntman


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    I suggest you all take that on board for next time so you do not stand by and allow a few people ruin your forum.

    mystified by this, isn't that the mods job?


  • #25
    Lafortezza
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭Lafortezza


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
    If the whole community is suffering because of a few people, will they allow this to happen again or will they actually do something the next time around?
    Most communities tend to deal with their trouble makers, time for the Poker forum to do the same.
    Is this directed at the mods or normal users in poker?
    If it's the mods then punish the mods with de-modding or a stern talking to, or a strict review of the charter and rules of the forum.

    If it's the normal users that this is directed at, its not really up to them to mod the forum. They can kick up a fuss with reported posts/pms to mods/helpdesk complaints, but most don't because the mods/smods/admins usually sort out spam or other nonsense pretty quickly.

    If it's the poker 'community' on boards in general that you think should police itself, not everyone keeps a close eye on the BBV thread, most like me skim it for interesting discussions. Personally I totally ignore actual poker stuff and most youtube videos on it. Alot of people probably never even noticed the posts on the BBV about trolling TCN.I think the crossover is people who read/post in the BBV and also are active on TCN is miniscule.

    By the time this situation blew up over the weekend, the BBV had been binned and all discussion locked down.
    You will not be getting your old thread back.
    DeV has started a new one and you can use that.
    Be aware the if this happens again, you run the risk of not having one at all.
    I suggest you all take that on board for next time so you do not stand by and allow a few people ruin your forum.
    That's the admins choice ofc, and I'm trying not to sound like a broken record here, but those people who were responsible for abuse/trolling were listed by Gordon in the reported posts thread in the mod forum. Everyone in the poker forum suffers when they could be disciplined instead?
    I still don't understand why this has to be the case.

    It's like the whole poker forum is being labelled as troublemakers and generally a nasty bunch. There's alot of innocent posters who enjoy boards.ie being punished when there's a much fairer solution available.


  • #26
    dannydiamond
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭dannydiamond


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The "count to a million" thread in tCN is, like almost all of the threads there, a bit of fun.

    Nothing more, nothing less.

    In the year it's been running it has crept up the "most posts" statistics list, recently overtaking the bbv thread has been an achievable objective.

    Last week there was less than 500 posts in it!

    Then the thread started "racing" the count to a million thread :)
    That is when the spoiling began,
    It appears that the competative streak in some poker posters overtook their sense of fair play.

    Nonsense.


  • #27
    Kinetic^
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭Kinetic^


    El Stuntman wrote: »
    mystified by this, isn't that the mods job?

    You would think so.


  • #28
    RoundTower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭RoundTower


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    That thread is gone for the exact reasons I have already stated above.
    weird in that case that totally uninvolved mods from other forums are so happy about it, and that discussion of the whole thing was banned for days.

    Yes I believe it was "an admin decision" (duh). No I don't believe it was about a couple of trolling posts in TCN which would have taken about a minute to delete all trace of.


  • #29
    BuffyBot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,924 ✭✭✭✭BuffyBot


    The community has to take some responsibility too - reporting problem posts, telling people to cop on. It's not too much to ask :)


  • #30
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    Killme00 wrote: »
    Thats a load of bollocks.

    Don't post in this thread again if you have nothing useful or helpful to say.
    lafortezza wrote:
    Is this directed at the mods or normal users in poker?

    Both.
    Other communitites self regulate by reporting posts and helping Mods out by doing so. A two way thing if you will.
    When mod of PI, regulars would report breaches of charter all the time. Other forums have the same level of concern for the forum they use.
    That's the admins choice ofc,

    ofc?
    El Stuntma wrote:
    mystified by this, isn't that the mods job?

    Indeed it is.
    The report post option is also there.
    RoundTower wrote:
    weird in that case that totally uninvolved mods from other forums are so happy about it, and that discussion of the whole thing was banned for days

    Again, I'm not sure what you are talking about?


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  • #31
    Wreck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Wreck


    I don't have time to write a well-thought out post that accurately reflects my views on this, but I would like to say that this debacle has really annoyed me. I'm astounded at the attitude of the admins and DeVore to the boards poker community as a whole and the idea that it is acceptable to punish everyone for the actions of a few. And the fact that we were not even allowed to discuss this on feedback over the weekend is just ridiculous.
    Beruthiel wrote: »
    Considering that this is not the first time something like this has happened from that thread, considering that, then from our point of view, a stand must be made.
    Appalling behaviour by some people and not the first time.

    If you are referring to the mustard forum stuff, that was like three years ago at this stage. Appalling behaviour by some people, yet punishment for all.
    Beruthiel wrote: »
    If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
    If the whole community is suffering because of a few people, will they allow this to happen again or will they actually do something the next time around?
    Most communities tend to deal with their trouble makers, time for the Poker forum to do the same.

    The part in bold is just hilarious tbh. And the poker forum does deal very effectively with troublemakers - shills, trolls and DBC alike. The mods on the whole do a great job, and the majority of users are sensible and reasoned in their posting, and rarely overstep the mark.
    Beruthiel wrote: »
    You will not be getting your old thread back.
    DeV has started a new one and you can use that.
    Be aware the if this happens again, you run the risk of not having one at all.
    I suggest you all take that on board for next time so you do not stand by and allow a few people ruin your forum.

    Why are we not getting the old thread back - is it a punishment or is there another reason for not returning it.


  • #32
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    lafortezza wrote: »
    That's the admins choice ofc, and I'm trying not to sound like a broken record here, but those people who were responsible for abuse/trolling were listed by Gordon in the reported posts thread in the mod forum. Everyone in the poker forum suffers when they could be disciplined instead?
    I still don't understand why this has to be the case.

    It's like the whole poker forum is being labelled as troublemakers and generally a nasty bunch. There's alot of innocent posters who enjoy boards.ie being punished when there's a much fairer solution available.
    From my POV lafortezza (and bear in mind that I've only been dipping in and out of this over the weekend, I wasn't involved in the dicussion leading to the binning), there was little "innocence" in that thread; not a single person reported the thread. Despite the fact that plenty of lurkers and other people not involved in trolling TCN saw what was going on, they implicitly joined in the craic or otherwise turned a blind eye to it. It wasn't until a TCN (and perhaps poker?) regular brought it to our attention that anyone was aware of what was going on.

    When I see that kind of behaviour, any claims of, "But it was just a few, it wasn't everyone", doesn't really cut it with me personally. Many communties claim innocence and immunity on account of it being the "bad apples" that cause hassle, but the fact of the matter is that when the rest of community turns a blind eye to it, they are equally culpable as the offenders.

    To jump into analogy-time now, it's obvious to everyone that boards is well beyond the "single community" ethos now, and many forums represent a community of their own. There was a time where you could draw a pub analogy with boards, where the site was a pub, with the admins behind the bar and each forum resprenting a different table (or room) with a discussion going on. But it's moved beyond that. Now you have a small city, where the admins are the governors and each forum represents its own pub, with the mods behind the bar and the regulars discussing their topics.

    With that in mind, it's clear that the moderators probably need to take more of an "admin" stance within their own forums, and feel quite free to impose rules and ettiquete which suits the community, but also within the overall site rules/ethos. Except within the case of an individual causing hassle, I don't think it's fair to require the admins to wade in every time a forum collectively creates hassle for the rest of the site, rather it seems appropriate that the individual community is sanctioned and spends their time policing their own problems.

    This is musing off the top of my head btw, and not any kind of "directive" - it's something which needs dialogue across the site.

    One thing that strikes me is that Poker, of all forums, is aware of the "community" aspect of it and how actions by Poker regulars, in the name of the Poker forum, will reflect on the boards.ie Poker community as a whole.
    This is probably something which needs to be made clear to all communities across the site.


  • #33
    Macspower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭Macspower


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    You will not be getting your old thread back.
    DeV has started a new one and you can use that.
    Be aware the if this happens again, you run the risk of not having one at all.
    I suggest you all take that on board for next time so you do not stand by and allow a few people ruin your forum.

    the very first I heard of the problem was whent he BBV was removed and at least 50% of my posts are in there.. It is not up tp us to police our own forums it is up to the mods... if they are not doing their job ( they do a great job btw) then let the admins deal with it..

    No way the whole community should suffer... Dev never said we are not getting the old one back and I await his decision on it... in fact I look forward to debating the issue with him if he will come on and defend his actions as we were told he would if the discussion was kept to this thread


  • #34
    dannydiamond
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭dannydiamond


    BuffyBot wrote: »
    The community has to take some responsibility too - reporting problem posts, telling people to cop on. It's not too much to ask :)

    Didn't all this happen at like 12/1 o'clock in the morning?


  • #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    dannydiamond wrote: »
    Nonsense.


    Are you sure!! ;)


  • #36
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    dannydiamond wrote: »
    Didn't all this happen at like 12/1 o'clock in the morning?
    Peak time for people to be online playing and discussing poker, I would have thought :)


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  • #37
    El Stuntman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭El Stuntman


    Macspower wrote: »
    the very first I heard of the problem was whent he BBV was removed and at least 50% of my posts are in there.. It is not up tp us to police our own forums it is up to the mods... if they are not doing their job ( they do a great job btw) then let the admins deal with it..

    No way the whole community should suffer... Dev never said we are not getting the old one back and I await his decision on it... in fact I look forward to debating the issue with him if he will come on and defend his actions as we were told he would if the discussion was kept to this thread

    this is utterly correct in my view, if people from the poker forum (or elsewhere) were acting the bollocks, then punish them in the normal manner and move on. A reprisal against the entire poker community just hurts the 99% of posters who had nothing to do with this messing.

    That old thread is the DNA of the poker forum and has some amazing content on every subject under the sun - this collective punishment is both arbitrary and unfair. I would certainly review my opinion and membership of boards.ie if it were not reinstated.


  • #38
    Macspower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭Macspower


    lafortezza wrote: »
    From this poker mods point of view, the only thing I am really concerned about is the fact that every single poker forum poster is getting disciplined for the actions of a few. It's nothing to do with me what happens individually to the posters who invaded TCN in terms of sitebans/bans.

    It's not as if the attack on TCN was covertly organised and can't be traced back to individuals. Yet everyone on poker is punished. Doesn't make sense at all and it is pretty damaging to the community.


    These four points are essentially what it boils down to.

    Personally I'd like to have the old BBV back, but if it is not returned in place of the new BBV then so be it, the poker forum will carry on.
    The danger to the poker forum and its community is that many many members feel that this whole situation has been dealt with very unfairly and without transparency, and that all members are being punished for the f-ups of a few.

    well spoken Laf... the only thing I don't agree with is the highlighted part... I really don't believe the poker forum will continue unless this is sorted.. well definately not on boards.ie and if it does it will not be to the same level as it ever was before as the disrespect shown to some of us ordinary decent posters by mods/admins outside the forum this weekend has been nothing short of insulting..


  • #39
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,399 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    I've resigned as mod of the poker forum.


  • #40
    Lafortezza
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭Lafortezza


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    ofc?
    = of course, meaning while I disagree with the admins treatment of this situation, I obviously understand that they are the owners/chief people in charge and their decisions are law.
    seamus wrote:
    From my POV lafortezza (and bear in mind that I've only been dipping in and out of this over the weekend, I wasn't involved in the dicussion leading to the binning), there was little "innocence" in that thread; not a single person reported the thread. Despite the fact that plenty of lurkers and other people not involved in trolling TCN saw what was going on, they implicitly joined in the craic or otherwise turned a blind eye to it. It wasn't until a TCN (and perhaps poker?) regular brought it to our attention that anyone was aware of what was going on.
    I get what you're saying seamus and I can see the admin's side of it. Personally I think there was less turning of a blind eye by lurkers/normal posters, and more insular thinking of "those guys are trolling somewhere else, nothing to do with me discussing poker". The poker mods either skimmed/missed the posts re trolling in the BBV, and Kev gave his explanation in the poker mods thread where a couple of admins read and responded.


  • #41
    Macspower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭Macspower


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    I've resigned as mod of the poker forum.

    fair play to you Lloyd... prepared to stand up for what you believe in


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  • #42
    RoundTower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭RoundTower


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    I've resigned as mod of the poker forum.

    thanks for all your hard work Lloyd, I don't think any of this reflects badly on you


  • #43
    fatguy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭fatguy


    seamus wrote: »
    When I see that kind of behaviour, any claims of, "But it was just a few, it wasn't everyone", doesn't really cut it with me personally. Many communties claim innocence and immunity on account of it being the "bad apples" that cause hassle, but the fact of the matter is that when the rest of community turns a blind eye to it, they are equally culpable as the offenders.
    I completely and utterly disagree. Let me make it clear, I had 800-odd posts on this forum, and 59 of them are in the broadband forum 5 years ago. All of the rest are in Poker. I couldn't give a flying **** about any other forum so why would I bother reporting people for messing with other forums? Why would I report a mod for encouraging it (or failing to stop it)? It doesn't affect me in any way, so I don't care. In your stated opinion, the fact that I'm not an armchair moderator makes me a bad apple and someone you don't want posting to your site. Don't you see why that is bollox, as Killme00 so eloquently put it?
    One thing that strikes me is that Poker, of all forums, is aware of the "community" aspect of it and how actions by Poker regulars, in the name of the Poker forum, will reflect on the boards.ie Poker community as a whole.
    This is probably something which needs to be made clear to all communities across the site.
    Human nature makes this unavoidably true, but I still cannot abide being punished for something someone else did. If the regulars at TCN see that specific Poker forum posters were punished, it will have exactly the same effect as them seeing that the Poker community was punished. The two options have the same end result, but one of them ****s over the innocent and one of them doesn't.


  • #44
    Killme00
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    Don't post in this thread again if you have nothing useful or helpful to say.

    It is bollocks. The entire poker forum has been held to account for actions of a few.


  • #45
    Icarus152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Icarus152


    lafortezza wrote: »
    .... those people who were responsible for abuse/trolling were listed by Gordon in the reported posts thread in the mod forum. Everyone in the poker forum suffers when they could be disciplined instead?
    I still don't understand why this has to be the case.

    It's like the whole poker forum is being labelled as troublemakers and generally a nasty bunch. There's alot of innocent posters who enjoy boards.ie being punished when there's a much fairer solution available.

    This.
    seamus wrote: »
    When I see that kind of behaviour, any claims of, "But it was just a few, it wasn't everyone", doesn't really cut it with me personally. Many communties claim innocence and immunity on account of it being the "bad apples" that cause hassle, but the fact of the matter is that when the rest of community turns a blind eye to it, they are equally culpable as the offenders.

    To jump into analogy-time now, it's obvious to everyone that boards is well beyond the "single community" ethos now, and many forums represent a community of their own. There was a time where you could draw a pub analogy with boards, where the site was a pub, with the admins behind the bar and each forum resprenting a different table (or room) with a discussion going on. But it's moved beyond that. Now you have a small city, where the admins are the governors and each forum represents its own pub, with the mods behind the bar and the regulars discussing their topics.


    To use another analogy,imagine a minority group in ireland (e.g. non-nationals or the travelling community) caused trouble in a local nightclub one night.Innocent customers got hurt as a result.

    The Gardai respond by rounding up all members of the community and punishing them.The Guards excuse? well,they're a tightly knit community and as such they should have been able to police themselves.Or,well,the same thing happened a few weeks ago in another nightclub,time to punish the entire group.

    Unfair?


  • #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    As someone who has no interest in the poker forum, I feel that it's unfair to kill the thread because of the actions of a few.

    There are other ways to deal with this.


  • #47
    lee_arama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭lee_arama


    What bothers me most about it is that the BBV thread was killed on the grounds that Dev didn't like XYZ being said on it. I've yet to hear what the tone of what was being said was...

    Can I ask if people were organising 133t haxx0r moments or something in order to 'attack' other forums?

    I'm not looking to drag everything up again but I feel that the majority of information as to what really happened was the pervue of a select few, being those who were online around the time of the thread kill.

    Glad to see BBV back but not happy to have lost posts.


  • #48
    KevIRL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,578 ✭✭✭✭KevIRL


    I'm resigning as Poker Mod also.

    This new direction that the Poker forum is going to be forced to take does not sit well with me. Nor do the reasons for it. I mean this with the best of intentions but it does seem as if the poker community does not fit in well with the way the boards community sees itself anymore. Perhaps a parting of the ways is best for both communites.


  • #49
    Macspower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭Macspower


    Killme00 wrote: »
    It is bollocks. The entire poker forum has been held to account for actions of a few.

    while I totally agree with your sentiments and I understand your frustration, but as I requested in my OP , a civil logial argument is called for...


  • #50
    Icarus152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Icarus152


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    I've resigned as mod of the poker forum.
    KevIRL wrote: »
    I'm resigning as Poker Mod also.

    This new direction that the Poker forum is going to be forced to take does not sit well with me. Nor do the reasons for it. I mean this with the best of intentions but it does seem as if the poker community does not fit in well with the way the boards community sees itself anymore. Perhaps a parting of the ways is best for both communites.

    wow.


  • #51
    Macspower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭Macspower


    KevIRL wrote: »
    I'm resigning as Poker Mod also.

    This new direction that the Poker forum is going to be forced to take does not sit well with me. Nor do the reasons for it. I mean this with the best of intentions but it does seem as if the poker community does not fit in well with the way the boards community sees itself anymore. Perhaps a parting of the ways is best for both communites.

    Kev and Lloyd,

    thanks for your hard work in the poker community


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