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DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

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Comments

  • #332
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,355 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Elmo wrote: »
    Can the loss of analogue services help WiFi or WiMax? or any other form of Broadband transmission?

    Thats what the Digital Dividend is about, reallocating analogue UHF spectrum to spectrum efficient digital technologies and receiving an economic benefit in the process.

    ComReg's Digital Dividend in Ireland Consultation
    DCENR A National Policy Framework for Identifying Spectrum for the Digital Dividend
    EU Delivering the digital dividend


  • #333
    ixtlan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭ixtlan


    Quote from Simon Coveney RTÉ had already spent €40 million on DTT and the Minister would make life “financially impossible” for RTÉ if he insisted that it had three or four free-to-air channels on DTT by the end of the year, in the absence of a commercial operator.

    Surely this is an exaggeration?! The 4 channels are already on DTT! I'm watching them. Maybe he means 4 channels from RTE? However this is not so important in the short term. Just run with the current ones.

    Lots of difficulties yes, particularly in trying to figure out who will pay for the hundreds of thousands of required STBs (assuming no commercial operator to subsidise them).

    However why not go live, without a big fanfare, and pressure TV/DVR sellers to stock MPEG4 compatible products just so we start getting set for 2012.

    It's hardly "financially impossible", to just continue what they are doing already but in a more formal way?

    ix.


  • #334
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    RTENL's problem is they have spent the money for a substantial part of the gear for the 3x commercial MUXes on about 10 to 13 sites. If there is no commercial operator then they have a huge financial problem. Simply paying for the electric for the existing four DTT channels on PSB MUX nearly nationwide then becomes a problem.

    This is another reason they want a deposit from any commercial operator. The Commercial Operator is likely to go bust and then RTE would be out of pocket for the electric and distribution for the 3x Commercial MUX too as well as gear. Hence wanting €20M deposit.


  • #335
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »
    RTENL's problem is they have spent the money for a substantial part of the gear for the 3x commercial MUXes on about 10 to 13 sites. If there is no commercial operator then they have a huge financial problem. Simply paying for the electric for the existing four DTT channels on PSB MUX nearly nationwide then becomes a problem.

    This is another reason they want a deposit from any commercial operator. The Commercial Operator is likely to go bust and then RTE would be out of pocket for the electric and distribution for the 3x Commercial MUX too as well as gear. Hence wanting €20M deposit.

    Sell off the sites they haven't upgraded? Regulate One Vision to develop and buy those sites. If any.


  • #336
    tretle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭tretle


    Elmo wrote: »
    Sell off the sites they haven't upgraded? Regulate One Vision to develop and buy those sites. If any.

    Thats what he was implying, he was trying to make the point that at this stage we would be in trouble if there was no comercial operator willing to buy the equipment that rtenl have already payed for comercial purposes.


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  • #337
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    RTENL can't sell the sites. There is no-one to sell them to. Besides most the sites are used for Radio, and all for Public MUx, and all for Analogue TV. In fact the sites should be State property. (Think how good it was selling off eircom infrastructure).

    If there is no commercial operator, the free DTT rollout will still go ahead, possibly even on more sites (as RTENL will have spare gear :) ) The problem is financial.

    Since viewers and RTE don't actually need DTT at all (in one sense) and the Government and State will reap benefit of the "digital dividend", which is larger bu about 100MHz at least if no payTV, the Government should make up any shortfall in cash for DTT to RTENL.


    In the UK rather than making BBC sell of transmitter sites, the BBC TX & Comms should have been spun off as a semi state and Arqiva/ITV sites Nationalised.

    Such strategic national infrasturcture as Gas, Electric, Comms, Masts (eircom, esb, gas, Garda, ThreeFold, vodafone etc) NETWORKS should never be sold off and end up in paws of speculators.


  • #338
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    I was suggesting that RTÉ NL sell off 50% of their sites (the ones not up graded) to One Vision, One Vision let RTÉ rent the sites needed for the PBS Mux and RTÉ NL let One Vision rent the sites needed for their Commerical Muxs. Payoff would be that One Vision would reduce their rental costs to RTÉ NL.

    Easy TV should be used interchangeably :)


  • #339
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    A) That would cost Onevision about 5 to 10 years rental, or more.
    B) It's insane
    D) All the major sites are already upgraded for PBS Mux
    E) OneVision is not in the buisness of buying sites.

    Same applies to EasyTV


  • #340
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »
    A) That would cost Onevision about 5 to 10 years rental, or more.
    B) It's insane
    D) All the major sites are already upgraded for PBS Mux
    E) OneVision is not in the buisness of buying sites.

    Same applies to EasyTV

    EasyTV might be able to use UPC's MMDS sites no? I know you will say no :( oh well.

    Should the Government nationalize UPC's network?


  • #341
    slegs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,067 ✭✭✭slegs


    Elmo wrote: »

    Should the Government nationalize UPC's network?

    Maybe while we are at it we should ban all commercial TV providers.

    This is not Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia.

    Your ideas even if possible wont help reduce cost which is the only inhibiting factor in any project like this.


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  • #342
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,160 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Elmo wrote: »
    Should the Government nationalize UPC's network?
    Nah, it would be anti-competitive. If any one piece of infrastructure should be nationalised it would be Eircom's network first and foremost.


  • #343
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 96,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Elmo wrote:
    Should the Government nationalize UPC's network?
    Why ?
    Everyone on UPC has digital and they have to carry the national channels already, so nothing changes.

    Be better off nationalising Eircom copper and trying to send TV over IP,
    only because Eircom copper goes to places that don't have cable TV and poor TV reception. Having said that TV over verdigras is probably a non-runner. To bring Eircom up to fibre to the home nation wide might cost at a guesstimate $2Bn, way more than then the tens of millions involved in DTV.

    Yes converting / replacing the Eircom copper with fibre nation wide would being us back into contention with leading countries world wide. And yes we could piggyback TV over IP but only as part of another far more expensive project.


    We could do multicast IP over satellite but then everyone would need a PC so not a runner either.


  • #344
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    slegs wrote: »
    Maybe while we are at it we should ban all commercial TV providers.

    This is not Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia.

    Your ideas even if possible wont help reduce cost which is the only inhibiting factor in any project like this.

    If only we could ban TV3 :D joke.

    I was just make the suggestion that we sell 50% of RTE NL's network. but then maybe is this Regan's America or Thatcher's England?

    I suppose we inhibit people making a buck when they don't invest no money into infrastructure.

    No really neo-liberal proposals on this question has really been examined. How ever when I did suggest, I was told no!


  • #345
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    DVB-s / DVB-t / DVB-c is really an IP multicast/broadcast. Just no return channel.


  • #346
    tretle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭tretle


    #1 - Elmo, even though its just a joke I think I am starting to unconsciously ignore posts with Elmo and TV3 in the content :D We all know you hate them, and that's your opinion. But there's no need to keep telling us over and over :D

    #2 - I find it strange that people are talking about switching to mmds or iptv as if its still an option this late, after the amount of money which has been pumped into DTT. No matter how you feel about it, at this stage coming to the conclusion that switching to another infrastructure is absurd. Why?
    Well why use mmds? Before you answer that think about it, is it really worth wasting all of that money invested into dtt.

    Conclusion
    TV3 and DTT are here to stay, though we can't be positive what the future might hold for DTT, its not a dead end. Im interested to see what system will be used for interactive services and whether dtt might mature to be a hybrid iptv/dtt platform.
    Of course the hardware isnt quite there yet but yahoo's internet@tv looks like a good starting point for interactive services.

    Hopes
    #1 Onevision hold up to there word and provide 6 free to air channels.
    #2 Please god not six shopping channels
    #3 The onevision 6 channel free to view tv channels are unencrypted
    #4 We never see a +1 channel wasting the space
    #5 People stop asking to thank the sky+ inventor, its called pvr people I was using one years before sky+
    #6 The radio channels get removed from dtt(if not add some tv channels to DAB, lol)
    #7 A new irish tv network is formed :/

    Annoyences
    My sig aint working and no custom avatars?


  • #347
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    tretle wrote: »
    #1 - Elmo, even though its just a joke I think I am starting to unconsciously ignore posts with Elmo and TV3 in the content :D We all know you hate them, and that's your opinion. But there's no need to keep telling us over and over :D


    I wouldn't ignore anything I say about TV3 TBH. I speak the truth weather you or TV3 like it, I can be quite impartial with TV3 when I want to be.

    In fairness I am treating the whole DTT project as a joke. Just look at how many post have been entered here on boards, and I am not just talking about in the last year, but in the last decade.


  • #348
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    tretle wrote: »
    Hopes
    #1 Onevision hold up to there word and provide 6 free to air channels.
    #2 Please god not six shopping channels
    #3 The onevision 6 channel free to view tv channels are unencrypted
    #4 We never see a +1 channel wasting the space
    #5 People stop asking to thank the sky+ inventor, its called pvr people I was using one years before sky+
    #6 The radio channels get removed from dtt(if not add some tv channels to DAB, lol)
    #7 A new irish tv network is formed :/

    Annoyences
    My sig aint working and no custom avatars?

    Too true. :)

    Your sig seems to be working whats wrong with, I think their is a forum where you can ask such questions.


  • #349
    tretle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭tretle


    for those interested according to a dns lookup of http://www.onevision.ie eircom seem to own the domain. I suppose they will be handling the website.

    Heres the full lookup:
    % Rights restricted by copyright; http://www.domainregistry.ie/copyright.html
    % Do not remove this notice

    domain: onevision.ie
    descr: Eircom Internal Services
    descr: Body Corporate (Ltd,PLC,Company)
    descr: Registered Trade Mark Name
    admin-c: AHA347-IEDR
    tech-c: ens2-iedr
    renewal: 28-April-2009
    status: Active
    nserver: auth01.ns.eircom.net
    nserver: auth02.ns.eircom.net
    nserver: auth03.ns.eircom.net
    source: IEDR

    person: Brendan Wallace
    nic-hdl: AHA347-IEDR
    source: IEDR

    person: Eircom Net System Dept.
    nic-hdl: ENS2-IEDR
    source: IEDR


  • #350
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    renewal: 28-April-2009

    If anything ever comes of Onevision, maybe :)

    Interactive discussion moved here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055581447

    Please keep this on topic. Start new threads for other topics.


  • #351
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    watty wrote: »
    If anything ever comes of Onevision, maybe :)

    Maybe , just maybe .

    http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/media/article6395582.ece

    Sky says no to Setanta appeal

    div#related-article-links p a, div#related-article-links p a:visited {color:#06c;} SPORTS organisations including the Scottish Premier League may be forced to stomach deeper-than-expected cuts to their TV income after shareholders in Setanta failed to stump up enough cash to keep the broadcaster alive.

    Setanta’s financial position was so parlous this weekend that it asked arch-rival BSkyB, which is 39.1% owned by News Corporation, parent company of The Sunday Times, for a £50m advance payment on a deal that would have seen Sky wholesale Setanta to its own Sky Sports subscribers.

    The proposal of an interest-free loan, which was rejected, would have bridged the gap left by private-equity backers Doughty Hanson, Balderton Capital and Goldman Sachs, which have so far offered to inject £50m into the company.

    Setanta, which has 1.2m customers, must now return for crunch talks with rights holders, including the PGA golf tour. After initially asking for a 15%-20% reduction in terms, the broadcaster is seeking to negotiate some of its rights deals down by 25%.


    The company, which aired the FA Cup Final between Chelsea and Everton yesterday, got into trouble when it won the rights to screen only 23 Premier League fixtures per season from 2010, raising doubts over its future viability.

    Refinancing negotiations are led by a new management team that includes chairman Sir Robin Miller, the Emap publishing veteran.

    The stand-off between sports bodies and shareholders could yet force Setanta into administration. Insiders described talks with all parties as “fluid”. It has until June 15 to make a £35m payment to the Premier League. Deloitte is already advising the firm and would be appointed as administrator if required.


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  • #352
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,607 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Can we maybe keep the Setanta talk to the appropiate thread over in Broadcasting? I know Setanta is part of OneVision so its failure would obviously bring down the consortium, but discussion in and of itself should be in the existing thread.


  • #353
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    icdg wrote: »
    Can we maybe keep the Setanta talk to the appropiate thread over in Broadcasting? I know Setanta is part of OneVision so its failure would obviously bring down the consortium, but discussion in and of itself should be in the existing thread.

    Should it not be in Satellite :)

    Anyway Setanta problems are on going for the last few months. And lets face it RTE don't look in great condition either, Eircom :( and TV3 :(

    Perhaps we need to have one ultimate National Terrestial Broadcasting Network (NTBN)from whom companies rent space from.


  • #354
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    We do. It's called RTENL.

    But no-one has the money to rent the space for EXTRA channnels.
    Fact is 30 years ago in UK there was more TV to watch on four channels that there is today on 30 on UK DTT. And mostly Commercial DTT in UK is a fail.

    We need to forget about the commercial muxes and concentrate on doing the PBS mux well. Just add Oireachtas and RTE News 24 (with both those FTA on satellite). Make RTE News24 abit more like BBC World was, with a 15, 20 or 30min program every hour from the archives and it will serve as RTE International too. Maybe add a channel that is Education during day and irish films (not just in Irish) at night.

    If we achieve all that it's better than a pointless duplication of free UK Satellite channels that you get charged for, and the extra spectrum can then be Fixed Wireless Rural Broadband at a real 8Mbps or 10Mbps. Not the NBS mobile rubbish.


  • #355
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Setanta gone = One Vision Gone?

    Since the BCI state that One Vision must go with its original application, how long will it take them to get a new investor?


  • #356
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »
    We do. It's called RTENL.

    It should be independent from RTÉ is what I mean so that RTÉ and other broadcasters only pay for their services.


  • #357
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    That is the plan.
    It's already now a separate company. It used to be be an RTE dept. Technically TG4 and RTE pay and Tv3 really pays (the same amount). Which is why TV3 is not on all repeaters as they won't pay.


  • #358
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,355 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    From today's Irish Independent
    DTT show goes on despite rumblings at RTE and Setanta

    ON the face of it, it looks like another bruising week for the perpetually embattled Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) project, already a year behind schedule after its commercial roll out was kicked into touch by Communicorp and Boxer earlier this year.

    First, there were revelations that RTE is neither willing nor able to invest this year's €70m.

    Then came heightened speculation that Setanta, a member of the consortium that took over from Communicorp and friends, was about to hit the wall.

    But even though DTT may look more doomed than ever, sources close to the process insist the rumblings from RTE aren't the death knell, while MCD impressario Denis Desmond has emerged as an unlikely beacon of hope in the Setanta situation.

    Delicate

    RTE has told the Department of Communications that after investing €40m in the network for DTT already, plans to invest another €30m in DTT this year have been put on ice.

    Rather than presenting a threat to already delicate negotiations with One Vision, RTE's stance is seen as potentially helpful for the commercial process.

    Communications Minister Eamon Ryan has insisted he wants RTE to go ahead with the launch of public service DTT by this autumn, putting their free-to-air channels plus tv3 on the platform even if the commercial efforts aren't ready.

    "What RTE are really saying here is that they can't afford to go ahead with their launch without the commercials," says one informed insider. "That's not a position that would be incompatible with One Vision's given the obvious advantages of launching commercial and public service DTT together."

    Desmond's involvement in the DTT ruckus comes from his emergence as a 20pc stake in the Setanta Sports Channel Ireland (SSCI), through his Gaiety Investments, as revealed by Companies' House documents.

    SSCI is the company that's behind Setanta's involvement in the DTT project.

    While the remaining 80pc of the company is owned by the main company, Setanta Sports Holdings, Mr Desmond's presence on the share register is seen as improving SSCI's chances of survival.


  • #359
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Stupid papers.

    Free To Air DTT is going ahead. It's only Pay TV on DTT that is doomed.


  • #360
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    watty wrote: »
    Free To Air DTT is going ahead. It's only Pay TV on DTT that is doomed.

    What about this bit Watty , the rollout to the relay transmitters , yer Clonmels and Castlebars and Caslas is canned as well .

    RTE has told the Department of Communications that after investing €40m in the network for DTT already, plans to invest another €30m in DTT this year have been put on ice.



    I told ye that months ago did I not ?? We have 11 Main Transmitters ( incl Woodcock and Spur ) in various stages of on air tests and 2 relays done .

    That's it for a long time I feel . 2015 now seems reasonable as a completion date for the planned DTT rollout ...if even that .


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  • #361
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »
    Stupid papers.

    Free To Air DTT is going ahead. It's only Pay TV on DTT that is doomed.

    But surely some Pay programming can work on DTT such as lets say a Package provided by Setanta. <<<<<< Good argument :D


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