DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

Sorry I wasn't clear, its an annual licence fee but still pretty small.

I could have read it better unless you edited it, so yeah you could have been clearer

watty

Will Onevision really want to launch?

http://www.classicfm.co.uk/on-air/news-and-weather/business/struggling-sentata-faces-its-toughest-match/

Elmo

watty wrote: »

Will Onevision really want to launch?

http://www.classicfm.co.uk/on-air/news-and-weather/business/struggling-sentata-faces-its-toughest-match/

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=news-qqqid=41628-qqqx=1.asp

Neither report says anything about One Vision?

bk

Elmo wrote: »

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=news-qqqid=41628-qqqx=1.asp

Neither report says anything about One Vision?

Be realistic Elmo, we all know the point watty is making.

All three parent companies involved in onevision are seriously struggling.

Elmo

bk wrote: »

Be realistic Elmo, we all know the point watty is making.

All three parent companies involved in onevision are seriously struggling.

I just think it is funny that the Sunday Business Post didn't even mention the DTT problem.

Goldman Sachs and Doughty Hanson were reported earlier this year to have written down the value of their shareholdings in the company to zero.

Not good news for One Vision.

paulm17781

Goldman Sachs and Doughty Hanson were reported earlier this year to have written down the value of their shareholdings in the company to zero.

Elmo wrote: »

Not good news for One Vision.

They probably only wrote it down after Boxer won the license, it was no longer really an asset at that point.

Elmo

paulm17781 wrote: »

They probably only wrote it down after Boxer won the license, it was no longer really an asset at that point.

From a business perspective does One Vision make Doherty Hanson, Eircom and Setanta look good?

watty

Any decent analyst will have a better more accurate more frightening analysis of costs than I have. IMO it would look like a millstone.

Setanta and eircom have no money. Does Doherty Hanson want to fork out €80M+ over the next two years and then pack it in?

TV3 will be on DTT anyway. If they do nothing, TV3e and Setanta could make it to DTT too if advert funded FTA rather than Pay TV.

Don't forget unless you have a bunch of premium channels and higher monthly sub, the encryption costs, Call centre, box / cam subsidies would be expensive. If you have a couple of channels you have already paid Irish Rights for (on Cable and Satellite) then putting them on DTT FTA is possible*. RTE might even split the cost of Distribution & transmission simply to make DTT more attractive with an extra pair of channels.

Without the ambition of O’Rourke and Ryan, Setanta never would have got beyond showing Irish sports events in pubs to people abroad. That ambition has taken the business very far. However, it now faces retreating back into a much smaller business, changing ownership, or disappearing altogether in the coming weeks.

(*As discussed to death over the last 10 years in ICDG, RTE et al FTA on Satellite is NOT possible)

Elmo

watty wrote: »

Any decent analyst will have a better more accurate more frightening analysis of costs than I have. IMO it would look like a millstone.

Setanta and eircom have no money. Does Doherty Hanson want to fork out €80M+ over the next two years and then pack it in?

Can we just move the discussion along. How much money will Liberty Global have to invest in a new Digital Service?

watty

Same as above basically. I can't see them doing it either given costs of the ongoing upgrade of their subsidiaries cable networks and bailout recently of Sirus/XM sat radio merger ($135M?). A lot has changed for the worse for RTE and Liberty Global since the current licence bids put in. RTE has seen a huge drop in revenue. The #3 consortium can't afford to waste €50M to €80M over two years either.

paulm17781

watty wrote: »

Same as above basically. I can't see them doing it either given costs of the ongoing upgrade of their subsidiaries cable networks and bailout recently of Sirus/XM sat radio merger ($135M?). A lot has changed for the worse for RTE and Liberty Global since the current licence bids put in. RTE has seen a huge drop in revenue. The #3 consortium can't afford to waste €50M to €80M over two years either.

Is it not possible (even likely) that UPC would want it so they could sell the MMDS spectrum and use DTT instead?

watty

MMDS = 120 Channels (current MPEG2), or 180 SD TV MPEG4 + 12 HD TV MPEG4
Have sites only where you want them.
The Licence only covers MMDS. Anyone that wants it for LTE has to wait for the licence to expire and bid against the other WiMax operators.



DTT = 40 channels

DTT a lot more expensive to run. MUST do 93% population coverage in by 2013. (IMO too Low)

UPC can do about about 60% of population eventually with triple play cable, Phone + 300 Ch Sd + 30 Ch HD + up to 200Mbps BB via cable. Better ROI for the money than DTT.

Anyway while Liberty Globals owns UPC and was one of the bidders in with RTE, this is NOT the same as UPC getting it.

Apogee

The Broadcasting Commission of Ireland has awarded the contract to provide digital terrestrial television services in Ireland to the One Vision group.

One Vision includes TV3, Setanta and Eircom.

The BCI said the award was subject to negotiations, which will take place over the coming weeks.

Last month the original winner, Boxer, which included Denis O'Brien's Communicorp, said it had withdrawn its applications for the three multiplex contracts.

Following the withdrawal, the BCI said it would ask One Vision, which came second in the competition last year, if it was interested.

DTT is set to replace the current analogue television signal, which is due to be switched off at the end of 2012.

Households without satellite or cable television services will have to upgrade to DTT.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0511/dtt.html

watty wrote: »

DTT a lot more expensive to run. MUST do 99.9% coverage in about 5 years.

The operator of the commerical mux is "required" to meet 93% population coverage by 2013. And it's not as if the BCI or anyone else will bother their holes doing anything if they don't actually reach it.

watty

Edited. Agreed. It's not like TV3 has more than 80% and RTE have never had as good Coverage as ITV/BBC/C4 in UK.

Now we wait and see do they do anything or hand it back in 9mths.

The BCI said the award was subject to negotiations, which will take place over the coming weeks.

Elmo

Apogee wrote: »

The operator of the commerical mux is "required" to meet 93% population coverage by 2013. And it's not as if the BCI or anyone else will bother their holes doing anything if they don't actually reach it.

You know if I where One Vision I would start in the areas that don't get cable and MMDS (Of course it would kill One Vision but lets face it they are already dead before they enter the market.)

Or I could go after the market in areas like Dublin. I am guess that if you are in Dublin and you only have Analogue TV it possible because you aren't interested in pay TV. Just an assumption. But sure you will want One Vision.

watty

Elmo

RTENL has basically decided already. They launch on the main 13 (?) sites.

Whoever or if ever the PayTV launches it's on all the sites already testing with RTENL



http://www.bci.ie/news_information/press219.html

(Posted by Crawler )

icdg

Remember, this is only an award "in principle, subject to negotiations". Just like Boxer. They do not officialy have the contract until they have fully agreed terms with the BCI and signed the dotted line. So they are a long way off from launching a service and I don't think they ever will, for the same reasons that Boxer couldn't, not to mention the troubles afflicting the three companies (especially Setanta).

Elmo

watty wrote: »

RTENL has basically decided already. They launch on the main 13 (?) sites.

Whoever or if ever the PayTV launches it's on all the sites already testing with RTENL

Well my position remains those who really want Pay TV already have it, One Vision, Boxer or Easy TV will never get those people remotely interested in a Pay option in Dublin. OneVision or Easy TV will have to break UPC and Sky, I don't see this happening.

I found their research flawed and overtly trying to use the research for their own ends, certain important questions where left out of the research. Their proposals are only press releases, WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS.

Honest never hurts, only lies.

This reminds me of the Emperors New Clothes story, the BCI are the Emperor. You would have thought they would have realised that One Vision entered with the same design but spun on a different empty spinning wheel. (I think I could go further with these metaphor but I won't)

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.bci.ie/news_information/press219.html

BCI AWARDS DTT CONTRACTS TO ONE VISION


The Broadcasting Commission of Ireland has today (Monday 11th May) announced its decision to award the three national Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) multiplex contracts to One Vision, in principle. The One Vision consortium was the second placed applicant for the DTT contracts, which were originally advertised by the Commission on the 7th of March, 2008. The Commission had sought confirmation from the group that they were interested in pursuing contract negotiations, following the decision of Boxer DTT Limited to withdraw their applications in recent weeks.

Today’s contract award is subject to the successful outcome of contract negotiations. The Commission will be actively engaging with the consortium in this regard over the course of the coming weeks.

My italics
Be interesting to see how they plan to make money on this.

*hugs old digibox*

byte

I wonder what the deadline is for these "contract negotiations" before OneVision have to make a final decision?

BigMoose

Elmo wrote:

those who really want Pay TV already have it

I'm not so sure about this. Or even if true, those that have pay TV and already have it might well be interested in a cheaper offering with less dross channels... I for one think Sky is too expensive for the large amont of crap offered. But would happily pay less for less channels if the decent ones were kept. That said, what I really want is the FTA sat channels and pay only for Sky sports, but sadly that'll never happen.

Elmo

BigMoose wrote: »

I'm not so sure about this. Or even if true, those that have pay TV and already have it might well be interested in a cheaper offering with less dross channels... I for one think Sky is too expensive for the large amont of crap offered. But would happily pay less for less channels if the decent ones were kept. That said, what I really want is the FTA sat channels and pay only for Sky sports, but sadly that'll never happen.

Buy a FTA sat and go with One Vision for FTA Irish TV and subscribe to their Setanta/Sky package. Or do you have to get the the full pack age from OneVision.

If it happens.

BigMoose

Their guff posted a while back implies you have to pay their basic on top of sky sports which is a shame, otherwise I'd have been tempted. (I already have a PVR with a DVB-s and DVB-t card for all the FTA sat and the 4 DTT channels was just saying that I think there is a market for cheaper pay TV)

Elmo

BigMoose wrote: »

Their guff posted a while back implies you have to pay their basic on top of sky sports which is a shame, otherwise I'd have been tempted. (I already have a PVR with a DVB-s and DVB-t card for all the FTA sat and the 4 DTT channels was just saying that I think there is a market for cheaper pay TV)

I am talking about the people in 4 TV land not the people who have gone out of their way to get FTA Satellite and FTA DTT plus Sky Sports (which sounds very good TBH).

I can't see myself moving to One Vision but that is down to the Broadband from UPC.

bk

BigMoose wrote: »

I'm not so sure about this. Or even if true, those that have pay TV and already have it might well be interested in a cheaper offering with less dross channels... I for one think Sky is too expensive for the large amont of crap offered. But would happily pay less for less channels if the decent ones were kept. That said, what I really want is the FTA sat channels and pay only for Sky sports, but sadly that'll never happen.

UPC do a nice entry level product for €20 that gives you pretty much the top 40 channels.

I think you can get Sky Sports on to p of that then if you like.

Elmo wrote: »

Buy a FTA sat and go with One Vision for FTA Irish TV and subscribe to their Setanta/Sky package. Or do you have to get the the full pack age from OneVision.

I'd be very surprised if you will be able to get Sky Sports on OneVision without also subscribing to the other channels first. Remember the likes of UPC and OneVision make most of the money off the basic channels packages, most of the money for Sky Sports and Movies goes to Sky. Really the likes of UPC only carry Sky Sports and Movies because they would lose lots of basics customers if they weren't available.

Elmo

No press releases, usually TV3 are only to happy to announce that they are wonderful. Only one from the BCI.

bugfreebob

bk wrote: »

UPC do a nice entry level product for €20 that gives you pretty much the top 40 channels.

€20 per month is a complete rip-off for basic TV channels (without HD or PVR), particularly given the high level of faults on the UPC network and their lousy customer service. Personally I am happy with FTA satellite for UK channels and FTA DTT for Irish channels on combo-box. However, I can understand that many customers will find it too complicated/expensive to install both Satellite and DTT in order to get full FTA. I think it's a pity that the Irish channels can't be free on Satellite - then Ireland could completely ditch DTT & cable and just use satellite. Since this hasn't happened, DTT for basic channels at €9.99 per month seems like a reasonable offer, and certainly a lot better than either UPC or Sky for value. I think it could be a winner - particularly in the current recession. Of course, some customers will pay more for premium channels, and for those Sky is probably best.

Elmo

bugfreebob wrote: »

€20 per month is a complete rip-off for basic TV channels (without HD or PVR), particularly given the high level of faults on the UPC network and their lousy customer service. Personally I am happy with FTA satellite for UK channels and FTA DTT for Irish channels on combo-box. However, I can understand that many customers will find it too complicated/expensive to install both Satellite and DTT in order to get full FTA. I think it's a pity that the Irish channels can't be free on Satellite - then Ireland could completely ditch DTT & cable and just use satellite. Since this hasn't happened, DTT for basic channels at €9.99 per month seems like a reasonable offer, and certainly a lot better than either UPC or Sky for value. I think it could be a winner - particularly in the current recession. Of course, some customers will pay more for premium channels, and for those Sky is probably best.

They provide PVR now, I think it could be extra. UPC may reduce prices and by the time One Vision or Easy TV, they may have improved their network problems. I like UPC if only for their Broadband. I could do with out the TV service. I am very lucky I never have to call their Customer services line.

The Cush

An article in in todays Irish Times quotes Minister Ryan that analogue tv will end in 2012 despite the withdrawal of Boxer.

Ryan insists 2012 digital deadlines will be met
MARIE O'HALLORAN

Wed, May 13, 2009

IRELAND WILL switch off its analogue television system by 2012 and move to digital terrestrial television (DTT), Minister for Communications Eamon Ryan has insisted, despite the decision of a company to withdraw from negotiations to provide the service.

Mr Ryan said “it is a real concern and it is a pity” that a contract could not be agreed, but the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (BCI) had an alternative biddger.

The UK is switching off its analogue services in different regions and services in Wales are due to be switched off in autumn this year.

“This is likely to impact viewers along the southeast of the country who receive overspill of the UK channels,” he said.

However Fine Gael communications spokesman Simon Coveney said that “to give the impression that the pull-out by the Boxer consortium has caused nothing more than a need for the BCI to move on to the next bidder, namely OneVision, and to proceed as if there is no problem is totally misrepresenting the situation”.

He said that OneVision, made up of broadcaster Setanta Ireland, Eircom and TV3, were “all good companies but all of them are under severe financial pressure at present”.

RTÉ had already spent €40 million on DTT and the Minister would make life “financially impossible” for RTÉ if he insisted that it had three or four free-to-air channels on DTT by the end of the year, in the absence of a commercial operator.

Mr Ryan agreed that RTÉ was under pressure but there was a “fundamental reality” that they would switch off the analogue service in 2012.

Labour spokeswoman Liz McManus questioned why such an extended time was given to the consortium, which walked away from the contract “which it did not sign, after eight months”.

She expressed concern that they would end up in another eight or nine months’ time “with an unholy mess on our hands”.

© 2009 The Irish Times

The article follows on from two priority questions from Simon Coveney and Liz McManus (spokespersons for their respective parties on Communications) in the Dáil yesterday.
The Boxer withdrawal was also touched on last week in the Dáil during the resumed debate on the Broadcasting Bill.

Elmo

Can the loss of analogue services help WiFi or WiMax? or any other form of Broadband transmission?

Again as I have said DSO/ASO has to happen if people want BBC 1, BBC 2, UTV and C4 they should get a FTA sat, so that other Irish services in the future can develop. With add on Pay TV services such as Sky and Setanta in other words broadcasters should pay RTÉ NL and One Vision to be on their MUX.

No thought has been put into the economic development of Irish channels current or future.