M3 Clonee-Kells Motorway construction updates

upmeath · 03-06-2009 12:40am

Here are a few shots at the junction between the N51 (Navan-Athboy Road, which now follows a much better route slightly north of the old road) and the M3.

upmeath · 03-06-2009 12:43am

More shots

upmeath · 03-06-2009 12:46am

Last from this junction

upmeath · 03-06-2009 12:50am

Furet wrote: »

Will you please consider uploading one or two good bright photos to the N3 wikipedia page? That needs some work, and your images will help.

Certainly will, I'll have a look at it, although wiki-editing isn't my forté and I'd probably only make matters worse. If you're likely to be editing it, don't be afraid to use my photos, I'm not going to press charges

D.L.R. · 03-06-2009 1:24am

Is the Kells Bypass section DC or single lane?

nordydan · 03-06-2009 11:54am

Its 2+2 north of the N52, and motorway south.

I came back through Navan at the weekend, and went to take a look at the scheme. When did the N51 DC section open?
It's very impressive, same standard as Greystones southern access road or Waterford RIng Road.

upmeath · 03-06-2009 2:21pm

nordydan wrote: »

I came back through Navan at the weekend, and went to take a look at the scheme. When did the N51 DC section open?
It's very impressive, same standard as Greystones southern access road or Waterford RIng Road.

2/3 weeks ago, it was a feature in the Meath Chronicle the week after it opened. Very similar to the Waterford Ring Road. Hopefully the traffic corps don't spend as much of their time here with their hairdryers. :rolleyes:

veryangryman · 05-06-2009 10:20am

Warning: Unpopular comments on the way. Rotten eggs at the ready...

Why the hell has the M3 even been built? It hardly counts as an Inter-Urban (Navan/Kells/Cavan are hardly bustling metroplolises)

I realise that the towns as far as perhaps Navan need a decent road for commuters, but beyond that, i think that Motorway was definitely overkill. A few WS2 bypasses similar to the Cavan bypass would have been more than adequate for the remainder of long distance traffic.

Thats where the money for Interconnector/Metro North was wasted on IMO

Also, wont it feel weird paying 2 tolls on a road that doesnt lead to a city (travelling Northwest i mean).

invincibleirish · 05-06-2009 1:24pm

veryangryman wrote: »

Why the hell has the M3 even been built?

(from the Irish property awards!?!)

df1985 · 05-06-2009 4:58pm

dunshauglin and kells bottlenecks id say are the main reasons-a nightmare at times.instead of a few bypasses for these towns,id be of the opinion if you're going to do it,do it right the first time.

JupiterKid · 05-06-2009 8:41pm

upmeath wrote: »

2/3 weeks ago, it was a feature in the Meath Chronicle the week after it opened. Very similar to the Waterford Ring Road. Hopefully the traffic corps don't spend as much of their time here with their hairdryers. :rolleyes:

I drove the new N51 DC west of Navan yesterday and I have to say I was very impressed with it. So yet another National Secondary route geys a piece of dual carriageway.:)

Why did it take so long, though, to build the very short S2 link between the N51 and the N3?

upmeath · 05-06-2009 11:12pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

Why did it take so long, though, to build the very short S2 link between the N51 and the N3?

I take it that's the road from St. Pats/the Ag offices to Clogherboy/Halfords? There's a train line beneath the road, it had to be built and bridged in stages with a stop-and-go system in place for the best part of 6 months. Also I'd imagine site access was a nightmare at any time of day whatwith the site being sandwiched between National Primary Road (N3), National Secondary Road (N51) a large secondary school with limited setdown (St. Pats) and a regional hospital.

L1011 · 08-06-2009 9:20pm

veryangryman wrote: »

Warning: Unpopular comments on the way. Rotten eggs at the ready...

Why the hell has the M3 even been built? It hardly counts as an Inter-Urban (Navan/Kells/Cavan are hardly bustling metroplolises)

I realise that the towns as far as perhaps Navan need a decent road for commuters, but beyond that, i think that Motorway was definitely overkill. A few WS2 bypasses similar to the Cavan bypass would have been more than adequate for the remainder of long distance traffic.

Thats where the money for Interconnector/Metro North was wasted on IMO

Also, wont it feel weird paying 2 tolls on a road that doesnt lead to a city (travelling Northwest i mean).

All the small joining sideroads along the N3 cause it to have abnormal traffic flows for the quantity of traffic using it - bunching and coming to a complete halt for a phantom reason are very common. An improved alignment with less at grade junctions between the towns was needed as well as bypasses. Building WS2 grade seperated would have been foolish for future traffic growth and we didn't use 2+2 at the time... Narrow D2 was the only class of road they'd do.

Jip · 09-06-2009 10:18am

There' seems to be alot of movement regarding works to the roundabout at Blanchardstown Vilalge and the M50 itself. It looks like they're going to create a road around the roundabout itself so that they can work on either upgrade or remove the smaller roundabout.
Anyone got any detailed info on what's happening there at the moment ?

spacetweek · 10-06-2009 1:00pm

veryangryman wrote: »

Why the hell has the M3 even been built? It hardly counts as an Inter-Urban (Navan/Kells/Cavan are hardly bustling metroplolises)

You can't win in this country. When we underspec something, it has to be upgraded and people complain "why didn't they just do it right the first time". When you give something a high-spec, people ask what it's for. The NRA just can't seem to win at all here.

The N3 connects a string of major towns to the capital city of the country. Meath currently has no motorways whatsoever (The M1, M4 and N2 do NOT count) and has generally woeful infrastructure including, famously, no railways. A major transport upgrade for the county is urgently needed.

veryangryman wrote: »

I realise that the towns as far as perhaps Navan need a decent road for commuters, but beyond that, i think that Motorway was definitely overkill. A few WS2 bypasses similar to the Cavan bypass would have been more than adequate for the remainder of long distance traffic.

Thats where the money for Interconnector/Metro North was wasted on IMO

Also, wont it feel weird paying 2 tolls on a road that doesnt lead to a city (travelling Northwest i mean).

But beyond Navan is not getting motorway; it reduces to dualler for a few k's, and then peters out. This final section is likely to have cost very little of the overall cost so the comparison with IC/Metro is frankly preposterous.

I agree the tolls are overkill; I wonder if one will eventually be removed. Even one toll on such a short route would have been a bit meh.

spacetweek · 10-06-2009 1:03pm

Jip wrote: »

There' seems to be alot of movement regarding works to the roundabout at Blanchardstown Vilalge and the M50 itself. It looks like they're going to create a road around the roundabout itself so that they can work on either upgrade or remove the smaller roundabout.
Anyone got any detailed info on what's happening there at the moment ?

This is OT; check the M50 thread.

Carawaystick · 11-06-2009 8:03pm

spacetweek wrote: »

The N3 connects a string of major towns to the capital city of the country. Meath currently has no motorways whatsoever (The M1, M4 and N2 do NOT count) and has generally woeful infrastructure including, famously, no railways. A major transport upgrade for the county is urgently needed.

Maybe I just can't see your tongue in your cheek, but the M1 is in Meath, it goes from Louth to Dublin. There are 2 junctions wholly in Meath (serving Donore Duleek and Drogheda) and the one at the southern end of the tolled section is mostly in Meath.
The M4 goes through Meath also, served by a junction in Ennfield.

There is a train station in Gormanston and Laytown. There's 26 direct passenger trains to Dublin from Laytown every weekday, and 5 more with connections. There's 3 passenger trains a day from Mayo to Dublin. There is also an operating train line from Navan to Drogheda.
There is a train line under construction from Clonsilla to Pace in county Meath. This will also have many more than 3 passenger services a day.

spacetweek · 12-06-2009 5:26pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Maybe I just can't see your tongue in your cheek, but the M1 is in Meath, it goes from Louth to Dublin. There are 2 junctions wholly in Meath (serving Donore Duleek and Drogheda) and the one at the southern end of the tolled section is mostly in Meath.
The M4 goes through Meath also, served by a junction in Ennfield.

There is a train station in Gormanston and Laytown. There's 26 direct passenger trains to Dublin from Laytown every weekday, and 5 more with connections. There's 3 passenger trains a day from Mayo to Dublin. There is also an operating train line from Navan to Drogheda.
There is a train line under construction from Clonsilla to Pace in county Meath. This will also have many more than 3 passenger services a day.

No tongue in my cheek. Some of the above was news to me, I didn't know Laytown and Gormanstown had railway services and I thought the M1's junctions all lay outside Meath. But the rest is useless to Meath residents. The Navan-Drogheda line is freight only and the Mayo-Dublin line doesn't benefit anyone in Meath. The Navan Phase 1 is still under construction. It can't be counted as infrastructure until it's operating. Phase 2 is years away.

It's still justifiable to say that Meath lacks accessible, centralised infrastructure.

The central belt in Meath is the N3 corridor. The majority of the county's towns and all of its large ones are located along here. No one along this belt is within a reasonable distance of any of the rail lines you mentioned or the M1 or M4, whatever people like Vincent Salafia would have you believe.

Tech3 · 12-06-2009 6:12pm

spacetweek wrote: »

It's still justifiable to say that Meath lacks accessible, centralised infrastructure.

I can think of several other counties in the country that lack quality infrastructure too with similar AADT and horrific roads.

Why should Meath be prioritised over other counties with similar traffic problems?

Carawaystick · 12-06-2009 9:02pm

spacetweek wrote: »

No tongue in my cheek. Some of the above was news to me, I didn't know Laytown and Gormanstown had railway services and I thought the M1's junctions all lay outside Meath. But the rest is useless to Meath residents. The Navan-Drogheda line is freight only and the Mayo-Dublin line doesn't benefit anyone in Meath. The Navan Phase 1 is still under construction. It can't be counted as infrastructure until it's operating. Phase 2 is years away.

It's still justifiable to say that Meath lacks accessible, centralised infrastructure.

The central belt in Meath is the N3 corridor. The majority of the county's towns and all of its large ones are located along here. No one along this belt is within a reasonable distance of any of the rail lines you mentioned or the M1 or M4, whatever people like Vincent Salafia would have you believe.

South Drogheda, Laytown Bettystown have a decent population, 10k or so, Ashbourne has 8.5k, Ratoath 7k while Navan has only 21k which is not out of proportion with the rest of the county.

If the Navan rail line wasn't running think how many 40tonne lorryloads a day would be running through Navan and on the N3 to Dublin.

The line under construction is a fair point, but it is actually being built as far as pace. like the M/N3
I only included the Mayo line as a comparison to the level of service compared to the Meath stations, i.e. the Meath stations have a much better service.

CUCINA · 13-06-2009 10:46am

Whether or not the M3 is needed, it is going full steam ahead at present...I have posted a number of pictures on the Meath forum, yesterday and this morning, of the M3 around Fairyhouse, including two photos taken from the same spot, but a year apart...might be of interest to some of you out there...

upmeath · 13-06-2009 11:53am

Carawaystick, are you a jealous Cavan man?

The argument that Meath is served by the M1 is a poor one. Meath's coastline, and the region of the county through which the M1 passes, could be considered a panhandle (see maps of the states of Oklahoma or Florida for examples) So these panhandles are more pronounced, but the Bettystown/Laytown/Julianstown area is remote to much of the county. And c.10,000 people live there? I'm delighted for them. At the last census we had a population fast approaching 160,000, so if 6% of the county's population can use the M1, good on them. An overwhelming number of the county's residents commute to Dublin every day, so what for the other 94%? Even people from Slane and Duleek, which are pretty close to the M1 and these coastal villages, wouldn't use the M1, because nobody wants to use any of the sh!tty approach roads, they're clogged with trucks (Irish Cement and the soon to be opened incinerator, among various other heavy industries in the NE Meath area) and Drogheda traffic isn't confined to Drogheda.
I'm from Trim, about 25km from the N3 at Fairyhouse, which in turn is 21km from O'Connell Street (journey takes 45-50 mins).
We're 21km from the M4 at Kilcock, in turn about 29km from O'Connell Street. I (and all my extended family) currently use the M4 to get into town, and it takes in the region of 35 minutes to get from my front door to Heuston Station, whereas the same amount of time could be spent getting to the Travelodge in Castleknock on the N3, the road is a disaster and the M3 is badly needed.

spacetweek · 13-06-2009 2:05pm

tech2 wrote: »

I can think of several other counties in the country that lack quality infrastructure too with similar AADT and horrific roads.

Why should Meath be prioritised over other counties with similar traffic problems?

Quite simply, because Meath is right next to the capital and only large city in the country. Its transport needs (road AND rail) are greater than in other areas. It isn't served by adjacent roads and rail lines in any meaningful way. Therefore, it needs its own road and railway.

Carawaystick · 14-06-2009 9:39pm

spacetweek wrote: »

It isn't served by adjacent roads and rail lines in any meaningful way. Therefore, it needs its own road and railway.

But Meath has 2 motorways and a 120kmh speed limit HQDC soon to be upgraded to Motorway and 2 railway lines.
I pointed out Mornington/Laytown/Betttystown have ~10k while Navan is only about 2 times the population. If there are no major urban centres in Meath, then rail will not work, same as it won't work on the wrc.

People arguing that the existing infrastructure is no good and they want their own better infrastructure in Meath need to put better arguments together that the existing infrastructure does not count....

serfboard · 15-06-2009 6:18pm

tech2 wrote: »

Why should Meath be prioritised over other counties with similar traffic problems?

Is it not obvious? Because the Minister is from there.

IIMII · 15-06-2009 6:30pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Quite simply, because Meath is right next to the capital and only large city in the country. Its transport needs (road AND rail) are greater than in other areas. It isn't served by adjacent roads and rail lines in any meaningful way. Therefore, it needs its own road and railway.

Well this is it. I've always argued that the road situation in Meath is about sorting out traffic through Meath (one of the main routes to Dublin), wheras the Navan railway is more about helping to sort out traffic in Dublin (in that it will take cars out of the city). If you take Dublin and the commuter counties (aka GDA) then they are two sides of the same coin in terms of inproving travel in the region.

I do think that the M2 and the M3 could have been combined to a degree though (along the lines of the M2 continuing on from Ashbourne to Navan (as the M3 and M2 are quite close at that point). Too late now though, we have what we have and the legacy of over-tolling on the M3 to show for it.

IIMII · 15-06-2009 6:31pm

serfboard wrote: »

Is it not obvious? Because the Minister is from there.

And he has always looked after us..

:rolleyes:

eddiej · 11-07-2009 6:51pm

Just a quick question should pics etc of the M3 go up here or over on the Meath forum which has a thread on the m3

Amtmann · 11-07-2009 7:29pm

eddiej wrote: »

Just a quick question should pics etc of the M3 go up here or over on the Meath forum which has a thread on the m3

Both if needs be, but definitely here at any rate.

eddiej · 12-07-2009 10:20am

These photos are from the Fairyhouse - Trim road flyover looking down at the toll plaza. taken on Sat July 10

How do I put the photos directly into the message as is done over on the M7 thread as I have a few more and would like to put captions on them the way its done there.

Thanks
Eddie

Tech3 · 13-07-2009 10:50am

eddiej wrote: »

These photos are from the Fairyhouse - Trim road flyover looking down at the toll plaza. taken on Sat July 10

How do I put the photos directly into the message as is done over on the M7 thread as I have a few more and would like to put captions on them the way its done there.

Thanks
Eddie

Hi Eddie, if you put the url of the picture you uploaded in between the IMG code. I put an example in between the

Irish and Proud · 13-07-2009 11:34am

eddiej wrote: »

Just a quick question should pics etc of the M3 go up here or over on the Meath forum which has a thread on the m3

Both would be good!

eddiej · 13-07-2009 7:34pm

Tech2,

Sorry but not good with the whole photos on the web lark. I have the pics on my PC so where do I upload them to on the web i.e. can you give me a site I could use and then obviously I lash in the URL.

Thanks
Eddie

Tech3 · 14-07-2009 5:02pm

Hi eddie, if you create an acount with flickr or photobucket and then upload the photos onto these websites, dont think there is a upload limit to the photos so need to resize them.

eddiej · 14-07-2009 6:45pm

Well a big thanks to Tech 2 here is the second attempt at the photos

DSCF0248.jpg?t=1247593664

Shot of the toll plaza just beside the fairyhouse/trim road flyover you can see the old stone bridge in the far distance

DSCF0245.jpg?t=1247593875

I presume this is where they will count ALL the money they make from the toll!!!

DSCF0244.jpg?t=1247594228

These are on the bridge can somebody explain what they are for and how they work

DSCF0241.jpg?t=1247595682

These are shots looking back towards Dunboyne/Dublin from the bridge, cant really see but on the red barriers big keep off sign. Just saw this after reading about not driving on the sub-layers of asphalt

DSCF0237.jpg?t=1247595843

A few shots of the finished flyover bridge

DSCF0238.jpg?t=1247596063

A final shot of the overall toll plaza area

Sage'sMama · 14-07-2009 7:23pm

tech2 wrote: »

I can think of several other counties in the country that lack quality infrastructure too with similar AADT and horrific roads.

Why should Meath be prioritised over other counties with similar traffic problems?

Because putting 2 tolls on one of the busiest roads in Ireland is a great way to make some money

Chris_533976 · 14-07-2009 8:12pm

I thought that the M3 was supposed to be wide median? According to those pics, its narrow.

eddiej · 14-07-2009 9:21pm

If by narrow median you mean the roads with concrete central dividers as opposed to the heap of grass alla M4 then yep anywhere I have seen along the M3 construction its all concrete barrier will try and get a few shots as they def have the foundation poured in a lot of areas if not formed the wall yet

Irish and Proud · 14-07-2009 10:39pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

I thought that the M3 was supposed to be wide median? According to those pics, its narrow.

The M3 was always going to be narrow median. The first proposal was for an offline dual-carriageway (original HQDC standard?) from Clonee to Kells which consisted of:

2 x 1.0m Verge Strips
4 x 3.75m Traffic Lanes
2 x 1.0m Median Strips
1 x 2.0m Median with Crash Barrier

The current "Standard Dual" format was introduced then as a "Reduced Motorway" standard for the M3 around 2001. I guess this standard subsequently became the format for High Quality Dual-carriageways - the very roads that are now being reclassified as motorway.

Any other thoughts on this?

Victor · 16-07-2009 7:53am

eddiej wrote: »

These are on the bridge can somebody explain what they are for and how they work

Instead of occassional gulleys connected to a pipe, its a continuous drain unit.

spacetweek · 28-07-2009 3:28pm

Sorry to come back to it but I just want to finish knocking on the head the idea that Meath doesn't need the M3, cause even at this stage some posters seem to think it doesn't.

Area/Pop/% of total/Modes available:

East coast 10k 6.2% Road+Rail
Ashbourne+Rat 15.5k 10% Road
Dunboyne 5.7k 3.5% Rail (in 2010)+Road
Enfield/South Negligible <1% Road+Rail

So: Around 10% of the population of Meath is served and rail and motorway, and another 10% by motorway only.

As for the extent of the Navan Railway, the total distance from the border at Clonsilla to the Cavan border is 57km. Phase 1 of Navan will cover 6.5 km of this (11%). Phase 2 will extend this to 37km (65% of the distance).

Finally: Does anyone have an up to date completion date for the M3? Back a while ago people were saying Dec 2009 but I think this has slipped?

veryangryman · 28-07-2009 3:33pm

The M3 leads you to nowhere of decent sized population.

The only reason the other places got motorway is because they happen to be on the way to other cities/strategic ports.

Thats why Wicklow/Kildare have good roads. Not out of sympathy to Bray/Greystones/Naas sufferers.

Again, complete waste.

spacetweek · 28-07-2009 4:55pm

veryangryman wrote: »

The M3 leads you to nowhere of decent sized population.

The only reason the other places got motorway is because they happen to be on the way to other cities/strategic ports.

Thats why Wicklow/Kildare have good roads. Not out of sympathy to Bray/Greystones/Naas sufferers.

Again, complete waste.

Total catchment for the M3 is probably a good chunk of Meath's 160k people. Around 100k at least. Also Navan is earmarked for huge expansion. Within a decade or two it could be 60-70 thousand.

marmurr1916 · 28-07-2009 5:23pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Also Navan is earmarked for huge expansion. Within a decade or two it could be 60-70 thousand.

At which point the M3 will become a giant traffic jam and there'll need to be a high-capacity rail link directly from Navan to Dublin.

eddiej · 28-07-2009 8:43pm

Firstly, I Live in Ashbourne.

Is the M3 needed definitely 2-3 years ago but now prob not as the traffic (all anecdotedly) has dropped hugely on the N3 heading for dublin. Looks like an awful lot of Cavan,Meath, Monaghan builders aint headin to Dublin anymore.:mad:

But this is probably the wrong way to plan our roads surely we should be proactive not reactive and have infrastructure there to cope with future development. Just look at Neanagh bypass on the M7 N7 route and the outcry at the waste of upgrading this road. If I was allocating funding today for sure the M3 would prob be down the priority but it is still better to build this road now rather than have silly bypasses like Enfield be repeated and then rendered useless by the Motorway a few short years later.

I think sometimes poor old Meath gets bad press because Dublin expanded mainly west and south missed Meath (prob a good thing) and hence the towns are smaller etc. Wonder what the people of cavan town, Eniskillen Donegal town did sometimes.

Is the N2 a waste it is an awful long way to Derry the Big City that the N2 M2 goes to just think Slane Collon Ardee - v - Navan, Kells, Cavan. So surely the M3 is worthwhile for this stretch and then prob dual carriageway or 2+1. The M7/M8 does it really need to go much further than Portlaoise and there is a far better train link that way

spacetweek · 30-07-2009 4:54pm

marmurr1916 wrote: »

At which point the M3 will become a giant traffic jam and there'll need to be a high-capacity rail link directly from Navan to Dublin.

Sure there will - which is why Navan Phase 2 must proceed. Maybe I should have been clear on that - I'm not saying Meath needs a road or a railway, it needs both.

veryangryman · 30-07-2009 5:50pm

eddiej wrote: »

The M7/M8 does it really need to go much further than Portlaoise and there is a far better train link that way

Good points up to that quote

Road linking Republics 3 largest cities (also linking Cork-Belfast for anyone mad enough to drive that far, and im sure theres a few) was badly badly needed

We are a laughing stock with the Abbeyleix's/Craughwells etc of this world

eddiej · 30-07-2009 9:37pm

veryangryman wrote: »

Good points up to that quote

Road linking Republics 3 largest cities (also linking Cork-Belfast for anyone mad enough to drive that far, and im sure theres a few) was badly badly needed

We are a laughing stock with the Abbeyleix's/Craughwells etc of this world

Well i think thats not bad for a post on boards as only the last line is under question:D:D

I take your points re linking the three big cities and i travel from Dub to Kerry a lot so this road improvement will be a big help. I remember the not so long ago good old days of 5 hours to Limerick. I suppose I was making the point more that I wonder is the traffic volume big enough on this road to justify M road all the way. Taking a bit of a leap but was continuing the theme of comparison that an M road was enough as far as Kells and then DC or 2+1 on to cavan etc.

Still think the M3 is worth it and will post a few pics over weekend. Work is advancing nicely on the Dunboyne bypass with works almost begun on the Dunboyne Maynooth road. Also the rail line is flying with the Dunboyne station rising steadily (I presume that is the station just beyond the old bridge at the N/M3) anyway this is the M3 thread

spacetweek · 08-08-2009 2:39pm

Still think the M3 is worth it and will post a few pics over weekend. Work is advancing nicely on the Dunboyne bypass with works almost begun on the Dunboyne Maynooth road. Also the rail line is flying with the Dunboyne station rising steadily (I presume that is the station just beyond the old bridge at the N/M3) anyway this is the M3 thread

"works almost begun" - what does that mean!

The station you saw at the N/M3 is in fact Pace station - Dunboyne station is being built here.

ardmacha · 08-08-2009 2:53pm

The M3 leads you to nowhere of decent sized population.

However it leads to as much population as the M9, whatever way it is distributed.

M3 Clonee-Kells Motorway construction updates

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