M3 Clonee-Kells Motorway construction updates

JupiterKid

upmeath wrote: »

2/3 weeks ago, it was a feature in the Meath Chronicle the week after it opened. Very similar to the Waterford Ring Road. Hopefully the traffic corps don't spend as much of their time here with their hairdryers. :rolleyes:

I drove the new N51 DC west of Navan yesterday and I have to say I was very impressed with it. So yet another National Secondary route geys a piece of dual carriageway.:)

Why did it take so long, though, to build the very short S2 link between the N51 and the N3?

upmeath

JupiterKid wrote: »

Why did it take so long, though, to build the very short S2 link between the N51 and the N3?

I take it that's the road from St. Pats/the Ag offices to Clogherboy/Halfords? There's a train line beneath the road, it had to be built and bridged in stages with a stop-and-go system in place for the best part of 6 months. Also I'd imagine site access was a nightmare at any time of day whatwith the site being sandwiched between National Primary Road (N3), National Secondary Road (N51) a large secondary school with limited setdown (St. Pats) and a regional hospital.

L1011

veryangryman wrote: »

Warning: Unpopular comments on the way. Rotten eggs at the ready...

Why the hell has the M3 even been built? It hardly counts as an Inter-Urban (Navan/Kells/Cavan are hardly bustling metroplolises)

I realise that the towns as far as perhaps Navan need a decent road for commuters, but beyond that, i think that Motorway was definitely overkill. A few WS2 bypasses similar to the Cavan bypass would have been more than adequate for the remainder of long distance traffic.

Thats where the money for Interconnector/Metro North was wasted on IMO

Also, wont it feel weird paying 2 tolls on a road that doesnt lead to a city (travelling Northwest i mean).

All the small joining sideroads along the N3 cause it to have abnormal traffic flows for the quantity of traffic using it - bunching and coming to a complete halt for a phantom reason are very common. An improved alignment with less at grade junctions between the towns was needed as well as bypasses. Building WS2 grade seperated would have been foolish for future traffic growth and we didn't use 2+2 at the time... Narrow D2 was the only class of road they'd do.

Jip

There' seems to be alot of movement regarding works to the roundabout at Blanchardstown Vilalge and the M50 itself. It looks like they're going to create a road around the roundabout itself so that they can work on either upgrade or remove the smaller roundabout.
Anyone got any detailed info on what's happening there at the moment ?

spacetweek

veryangryman wrote: »

Why the hell has the M3 even been built? It hardly counts as an Inter-Urban (Navan/Kells/Cavan are hardly bustling metroplolises)

You can't win in this country. When we underspec something, it has to be upgraded and people complain "why didn't they just do it right the first time". When you give something a high-spec, people ask what it's for. The NRA just can't seem to win at all here.

The N3 connects a string of major towns to the capital city of the country. Meath currently has no motorways whatsoever (The M1, M4 and N2 do NOT count) and has generally woeful infrastructure including, famously, no railways. A major transport upgrade for the county is urgently needed.

veryangryman wrote: »

I realise that the towns as far as perhaps Navan need a decent road for commuters, but beyond that, i think that Motorway was definitely overkill. A few WS2 bypasses similar to the Cavan bypass would have been more than adequate for the remainder of long distance traffic.

Thats where the money for Interconnector/Metro North was wasted on IMO

Also, wont it feel weird paying 2 tolls on a road that doesnt lead to a city (travelling Northwest i mean).

But beyond Navan is not getting motorway; it reduces to dualler for a few k's, and then peters out. This final section is likely to have cost very little of the overall cost so the comparison with IC/Metro is frankly preposterous.

I agree the tolls are overkill; I wonder if one will eventually be removed. Even one toll on such a short route would have been a bit meh.

spacetweek

Jip wrote: »

There' seems to be alot of movement regarding works to the roundabout at Blanchardstown Vilalge and the M50 itself. It looks like they're going to create a road around the roundabout itself so that they can work on either upgrade or remove the smaller roundabout.
Anyone got any detailed info on what's happening there at the moment ?

This is OT; check the M50 thread.

Carawaystick

spacetweek wrote: »

The N3 connects a string of major towns to the capital city of the country. Meath currently has no motorways whatsoever (The M1, M4 and N2 do NOT count) and has generally woeful infrastructure including, famously, no railways. A major transport upgrade for the county is urgently needed.

Maybe I just can't see your tongue in your cheek, but the M1 is in Meath, it goes from Louth to Dublin. There are 2 junctions wholly in Meath (serving Donore Duleek and Drogheda) and the one at the southern end of the tolled section is mostly in Meath.
The M4 goes through Meath also, served by a junction in Ennfield.

There is a train station in Gormanston and Laytown. There's 26 direct passenger trains to Dublin from Laytown every weekday, and 5 more with connections. There's 3 passenger trains a day from Mayo to Dublin. There is also an operating train line from Navan to Drogheda.
There is a train line under construction from Clonsilla to Pace in county Meath. This will also have many more than 3 passenger services a day.

spacetweek

Carawaystick wrote: »

Maybe I just can't see your tongue in your cheek, but the M1 is in Meath, it goes from Louth to Dublin. There are 2 junctions wholly in Meath (serving Donore Duleek and Drogheda) and the one at the southern end of the tolled section is mostly in Meath.
The M4 goes through Meath also, served by a junction in Ennfield.

There is a train station in Gormanston and Laytown. There's 26 direct passenger trains to Dublin from Laytown every weekday, and 5 more with connections. There's 3 passenger trains a day from Mayo to Dublin. There is also an operating train line from Navan to Drogheda.
There is a train line under construction from Clonsilla to Pace in county Meath. This will also have many more than 3 passenger services a day.

No tongue in my cheek. Some of the above was news to me, I didn't know Laytown and Gormanstown had railway services and I thought the M1's junctions all lay outside Meath. But the rest is useless to Meath residents. The Navan-Drogheda line is freight only and the Mayo-Dublin line doesn't benefit anyone in Meath. The Navan Phase 1 is still under construction. It can't be counted as infrastructure until it's operating. Phase 2 is years away.

It's still justifiable to say that Meath lacks accessible, centralised infrastructure.

The central belt in Meath is the N3 corridor. The majority of the county's towns and all of its large ones are located along here. No one along this belt is within a reasonable distance of any of the rail lines you mentioned or the M1 or M4, whatever people like Vincent Salafia would have you believe.

Tech3

spacetweek wrote: »

It's still justifiable to say that Meath lacks accessible, centralised infrastructure.

I can think of several other counties in the country that lack quality infrastructure too with similar AADT and horrific roads.

Why should Meath be prioritised over other counties with similar traffic problems?

Carawaystick

spacetweek wrote: »

No tongue in my cheek. Some of the above was news to me, I didn't know Laytown and Gormanstown had railway services and I thought the M1's junctions all lay outside Meath. But the rest is useless to Meath residents. The Navan-Drogheda line is freight only and the Mayo-Dublin line doesn't benefit anyone in Meath. The Navan Phase 1 is still under construction. It can't be counted as infrastructure until it's operating. Phase 2 is years away.

It's still justifiable to say that Meath lacks accessible, centralised infrastructure.

The central belt in Meath is the N3 corridor. The majority of the county's towns and all of its large ones are located along here. No one along this belt is within a reasonable distance of any of the rail lines you mentioned or the M1 or M4, whatever people like Vincent Salafia would have you believe.

South Drogheda, Laytown Bettystown have a decent population, 10k or so, Ashbourne has 8.5k, Ratoath 7k while Navan has only 21k which is not out of proportion with the rest of the county.

If the Navan rail line wasn't running think how many 40tonne lorryloads a day would be running through Navan and on the N3 to Dublin.

The line under construction is a fair point, but it is actually being built as far as pace. like the M/N3
I only included the Mayo line as a comparison to the level of service compared to the Meath stations, i.e. the Meath stations have a much better service.

CUCINA

Whether or not the M3 is needed, it is going full steam ahead at present...I have posted a number of pictures on the Meath forum, yesterday and this morning, of the M3 around Fairyhouse, including two photos taken from the same spot, but a year apart...might be of interest to some of you out there...

upmeath

Carawaystick, are you a jealous Cavan man?

The argument that Meath is served by the M1 is a poor one. Meath's coastline, and the region of the county through which the M1 passes, could be considered a panhandle (see maps of the states of Oklahoma or Florida for examples) So these panhandles are more pronounced, but the Bettystown/Laytown/Julianstown area is remote to much of the county. And c.10,000 people live there? I'm delighted for them. At the last census we had a population fast approaching 160,000, so if 6% of the county's population can use the M1, good on them. An overwhelming number of the county's residents commute to Dublin every day, so what for the other 94%? Even people from Slane and Duleek, which are pretty close to the M1 and these coastal villages, wouldn't use the M1, because nobody wants to use any of the sh!tty approach roads, they're clogged with trucks (Irish Cement and the soon to be opened incinerator, among various other heavy industries in the NE Meath area) and Drogheda traffic isn't confined to Drogheda.
I'm from Trim, about 25km from the N3 at Fairyhouse, which in turn is 21km from O'Connell Street (journey takes 45-50 mins).
We're 21km from the M4 at Kilcock, in turn about 29km from O'Connell Street. I (and all my extended family) currently use the M4 to get into town, and it takes in the region of 35 minutes to get from my front door to Heuston Station, whereas the same amount of time could be spent getting to the Travelodge in Castleknock on the N3, the road is a disaster and the M3 is badly needed.

spacetweek

tech2 wrote: »

I can think of several other counties in the country that lack quality infrastructure too with similar AADT and horrific roads.

Why should Meath be prioritised over other counties with similar traffic problems?

Quite simply, because Meath is right next to the capital and only large city in the country. Its transport needs (road AND rail) are greater than in other areas. It isn't served by adjacent roads and rail lines in any meaningful way. Therefore, it needs its own road and railway.

Carawaystick

spacetweek wrote: »

It isn't served by adjacent roads and rail lines in any meaningful way. Therefore, it needs its own road and railway.

But Meath has 2 motorways and a 120kmh speed limit HQDC soon to be upgraded to Motorway and 2 railway lines.
I pointed out Mornington/Laytown/Betttystown have ~10k while Navan is only about 2 times the population. If there are no major urban centres in Meath, then rail will not work, same as it won't work on the wrc.

People arguing that the existing infrastructure is no good and they want their own better infrastructure in Meath need to put better arguments together that the existing infrastructure does not count....

serfboard

tech2 wrote: »

Why should Meath be prioritised over other counties with similar traffic problems?

Is it not obvious? Because the Minister is from there.

IIMII

spacetweek wrote: »

Quite simply, because Meath is right next to the capital and only large city in the country. Its transport needs (road AND rail) are greater than in other areas. It isn't served by adjacent roads and rail lines in any meaningful way. Therefore, it needs its own road and railway.

Well this is it. I've always argued that the road situation in Meath is about sorting out traffic through Meath (one of the main routes to Dublin), wheras the Navan railway is more about helping to sort out traffic in Dublin (in that it will take cars out of the city). If you take Dublin and the commuter counties (aka GDA) then they are two sides of the same coin in terms of inproving travel in the region.

I do think that the M2 and the M3 could have been combined to a degree though (along the lines of the M2 continuing on from Ashbourne to Navan (as the M3 and M2 are quite close at that point). Too late now though, we have what we have and the legacy of over-tolling on the M3 to show for it.

IIMII

serfboard wrote: »

Is it not obvious? Because the Minister is from there.

And he has always looked after us.. :rolleyes:

eddiej

Just a quick question should pics etc of the M3 go up here or over on the Meath forum which has a thread on the m3

Amtmann

eddiej wrote: »

Just a quick question should pics etc of the M3 go up here or over on the Meath forum which has a thread on the m3

Both if needs be, but definitely here at any rate.

eddiej

These photos are from the Fairyhouse - Trim road flyover looking down at the toll plaza. taken on Sat July 10

How do I put the photos directly into the message as is done over on the M7 thread as I have a few more and would like to put captions on them the way its done there.

Thanks
Eddie

Tech3

eddiej wrote: »

These photos are from the Fairyhouse - Trim road flyover looking down at the toll plaza. taken on Sat July 10

How do I put the photos directly into the message as is done over on the M7 thread as I have a few more and would like to put captions on them the way its done there.

Thanks
Eddie

Hi Eddie, if you put the url of the picture you uploaded in between the IMG code. I put an example in between the

Irish and Proud

eddiej wrote: »

Just a quick question should pics etc of the M3 go up here or over on the Meath forum which has a thread on the m3

Both would be good!

eddiej

Tech2,

Sorry but not good with the whole photos on the web lark. I have the pics on my PC so where do I upload them to on the web i.e. can you give me a site I could use and then obviously I lash in the URL.

Thanks
Eddie

Tech3

Hi eddie, if you create an acount with flickr or photobucket and then upload the photos onto these websites, dont think there is a upload limit to the photos so need to resize them.

eddiej

Well a big thanks to Tech 2 here is the second attempt at the photos







Shot of the toll plaza just beside the fairyhouse/trim road flyover you can see the old stone bridge in the far distance



I presume this is where they will count ALL the money they make from the toll!!!







These are on the bridge can somebody explain what they are for and how they work





These are shots looking back towards Dunboyne/Dublin from the bridge, cant really see but on the red barriers big keep off sign. Just saw this after reading about not driving on the sub-layers of asphalt





A few shots of the finished flyover bridge



A final shot of the overall toll plaza area

Sage'sMama

tech2 wrote: »

I can think of several other counties in the country that lack quality infrastructure too with similar AADT and horrific roads.

Why should Meath be prioritised over other counties with similar traffic problems?

Because putting 2 tolls on one of the busiest roads in Ireland is a great way to make some money

Chris_533976

I thought that the M3 was supposed to be wide median? According to those pics, its narrow.

eddiej

If by narrow median you mean the roads with concrete central dividers as opposed to the heap of grass alla M4 then yep anywhere I have seen along the M3 construction its all concrete barrier will try and get a few shots as they def have the foundation poured in a lot of areas if not formed the wall yet

Irish and Proud

Chris_533976 wrote: »

I thought that the M3 was supposed to be wide median? According to those pics, its narrow.

The M3 was always going to be narrow median. The first proposal was for an offline dual-carriageway (original HQDC standard?) from Clonee to Kells which consisted of:

2 x 1.0m Verge Strips
4 x 3.75m Traffic Lanes
2 x 1.0m Median Strips
1 x 2.0m Median with Crash Barrier

The current "Standard Dual" format was introduced then as a "Reduced Motorway" standard for the M3 around 2001. I guess this standard subsequently became the format for High Quality Dual-carriageways - the very roads that are now being reclassified as motorway.

Any other thoughts on this?

Victor

eddiej wrote: »

These are on the bridge can somebody explain what they are for and how they work

Instead of occassional gulleys connected to a pipe, its a continuous drain unit.