Does the fact that the English allowed the average Irishman to perish....

stepbar · 30-05-2009 12:29AM

IIMII wrote: »

It was rugby, who cares? Sure it happened during the Special Olympics befor that. Turning point my arse. Turning point will be when the get their army off our island and when can sort out our differences without British guns skulking around in the background

Who cares? I do okay. Please let me know what you consider the turning point?. If you are going to diss my opinion, at least back it up with an opinion that does not involve the "British Army" :rolleyes:

30-05-2009 12:32AM

IIMII wrote: »

There's more than the sea that seperates the Irish from the English

Wales

tolteq · 30-05-2009 12:34AM

like clockwork! wrote: »

...during the famine, impact on how you feel toward the entire English people at present?

It used to make me hate them. But then I stopped and thought for a minute; how do I know that all 16 of my great-great grandparents were "full-blooded Irish"? Chances are that they wer'nt; and the very fact that I am here in 2009 to type this shít out probably means that I'm descended from some fcukers who survived the famine because of the fact that they were born into wealth, c-nuts.

Also; not much point hating the great-great grandchildren of the British fcukers who stood guard at the ships full of food that left port to be exported to Britain, as Ireland people starved. I suppose if you look at it in a completely reductionist and objective fashion, we are all just glorified clockwork, meat puppets programmed by our genetic make-up and deterministically coerced by our enviroment to end up where we do.

to be perfectly honest. i dont think we should dwell on anglo-irish relations of past years. its not good.

gurramok · 30-05-2009 12:34AM

Acknowledgement of hurt done in the past by the perpetrator contributes towards healing between countries.

What Blair did was an ackonwledgement of what happened back then and was progress for a better future for all.

Now, if only the north was totally resolved.. :P

K-9 · 30-05-2009 12:36AM

stepbar wrote: »

Who cares? I do okay. Please let me know what you consider the turning point?. If you are going to diss my opinion, at least back it up with an opinion that does not involve the "British Army" :rolleyes:

It's different for everybody. Some haven't even reached a turning point.

IIMII · 30-05-2009 12:41AM

stepbar wrote: »

Who cares? I do okay. Please let me know what you consider the turning point?. If you are going to diss my opinion, at least back it up with an opinion that does not involve the "British Army" :rolleyes:

Let's face it, Rugby is a fairly minor sport here that is having a spell in the sun, fair play to it even if it is a small pond. The actual rugger playing crews (as opposed to the nouveau supporters) would have been the last to starve if they had been around then. And I wouldn't dismiss the British Army and it's impact on Anglo-Irish relations - it's a hell of a lot more serious an issue than some 4 nations rugby game. Arguably the whole sport crossover thing was done over many times over more effectively (and decades earlier) by reaching the great unwashed through the support of English soccer teams. The rugby match of a few years ago had novelty value, nothing more nothing less.

Ostrom · 30-05-2009 12:44AM

like clockwork! wrote: »

...during the famine, impact on how you feel toward the entire English people at present?

It used to make me hate them. But then I stopped and thought for a minute; how do I know that all 16 of my great-great grandparents were "full-blooded Irish"? Chances are that they wer'nt; and the very fact that I am here in 2009 to type this shít out probably means that I'm descended from some fcukers who survived the famine because of the fact that they were born into wealth, c-nuts.

Also; not much point hating the great-great grandchildren of the British fcukers who stood guard at the ships full of food that left port to be exported to Britain, as Ireland people starved. I suppose if you look at it in a completely reductionist and objective fashion, we are all just glorified clockwork, meat puppets programmed by our genetic make-up and deterministically coerced by our enviroment to end up where we do.

What the f**k is this s**t??

Every two weeks now someone manages to dredge up this s**te.

Browse to the previous famine debate thread or read a f***ing book. Many books. And journals. Peer reviewed. With extensive citations and archival work. From many perspectives.

It wouldn't be as upsetting if it weren't a subject I'm about to stake my professional future on, but there really is no excuse for this over and over....

A**e.

stepbar · 30-05-2009 12:48AM

IIMII wrote: »

Let's face it, Rugby is a fairly minor sport here that is having a spell in the sun, fair play to it even if it is a small pond. The actual rugger playing crews (as opposed to the nouveau supporters) would have been the last to starve if they had been around then. And I wouldn't dismiss the British Army and it's impact on Anglo-Irish relations - it's a hell of a lot more serious an issue than some 4 nations rugby game. Arguably the whole sport crossover thing was done over many times over more effectively (and decades earlier) by reaching the great unwashed through the support of English soccer teams. The rugby match of a few years ago had novelty value, nothing more nothing less.

That's not the point and you know it. In fact you havent made a point full stop.

Actually its the 6 nations FTR.

IIMII · 30-05-2009 12:52AM

K-9 wrote: »

It's different for everybody. Some haven't even reached a turning point.

It's not about reaching turning points - it's about accomodation and moving forward. People don't turn, they learn to live with each other. All said, I think the Irish have done quite well in terms of living with those that have a British identity.

Re the other poster, the rugby crowd are anglophiles anyway, protagonists of sporting unionism (eg the British and belatedly Irish lions). The GAA rented them our stadium to play England, and they whipped themselves up into a frenzy to the point that they convinced themselves that they were the soul of nationalist Ireland putting the ghosts of the past to rest whilst singing Ireland's Call. The English didn't see it that way, and that ape the forced Mary McAleese off the carpet wasn't sipping from the same potent cocktail of romance

stepbar wrote: »

Actually its the 6 nations FTR.

No, it's really the 4 nations with subdivision to make it look like 6 so as to pretend it's a European Champioships. You get more nations involved with virtually all other interntional sporting events from table tennis to chess.

efla wrote: »

It wouldn't be as upsetting if it weren't a subject I'm about to stake my professional future on, but there really is no excuse for this over and over.... A**e.

At least you know there is interest in the topic. Or is the problem that national amnesia will be required to accept your findings? Will Patrick Pearse be gay in it?

K-9 · 30-05-2009 12:55AM

IIMII wrote: »

It's not about reaching turning points - it's about accomodation and moving forward. People don't turn, they learn to live with each other. All said, I think the Irish have done quite well in terms of living with those that have a British identity.

Re the other poster, the rugby crowd are anglophiles anyway, protagonists of sporting unionism (eg the British and belatedly Irish lions). The GAA rented them our stadium to play England, and they whipped themselves up into a frenzy to the point that they convinced themselves that they were the soul of nationalist Ireland putting the ghosts of the past to rest whilst singing Ireland's Call. The English didn't see it that way, and that ape the forced Mary McAleese off the carpet wasn't sipping from the same potent cocktail of romance

No, it's really the 4 nations with subdivision to make it look like 6 so as to pretend it's a European Champioships. You get more nations involved with virtually all other interntional sporting events from table tennis to chess.

YEP, Some haven't reached their turning point!

IIMII · 30-05-2009 01:07AM

Ok, look at it another way. Why is it that Irish people seldom (if ever) try to make British people Irish? But on the contrary British people tend to want to make Irish people feel British (in their own heads in particular)?

The number of British people I've met recently referring to the number of 'foreigners' here is gas - what else are they themselves in Ireland, if not foreign?

If turning means that we have to become little Britishers, I think Ireland will be a long time turning. Rugby people aside

stepbar · 30-05-2009 01:08AM

Let me clarify.........

Ireland
England
Wales
Scotland
France
Italy

Six nations BTW.

IIMII · 30-05-2009 01:10AM

stepbar wrote: »

Let me clarify.........

Ireland
England
Wales
Scotland
France
Italy

Six nations BTW.

4 Passports

stepbar · 30-05-2009 01:11AM

IIMII wrote: »

4 Passports

lol

please.

Ostrom · 30-05-2009 01:13AM

IIMII wrote: »

At least you know there is interest in the topic. Or is the problem that national amnesia will be required to accept your findings? Will Patrick Pearse be gay in it?

There is no interest, just baseless nationalism.

IIMII · 30-05-2009 01:16AM

efla wrote: »

There is no interest, just baseless nationalism.

Said the Roman to the Gaul

IIMII · 30-05-2009 01:16AM

stepbar wrote: »

lol please.

It's a point though, and you know it.

Ostrom · 30-05-2009 01:16AM

Before you come out with the apologist/denial accusation - dont. Noone disputes the atrocities, but those that post seem content to harp on at will without any sense of context

K-9 · 30-05-2009 01:17AM

IIMII wrote: »

The number of British people I've met recently referring to the number of 'foreigners' here is gas - what else are they themselves in Ireland, if not foreign?

If turning means that we have to become little Britishers, I think Ireland will be a long time turning. Rugby people aside

And why is it so many Irish don't see British people as foreigners?

Maybe it's linked?

IIMII · 30-05-2009 01:19AM

Well I do, and I married one. And I'm not alone. Maybe it's just that I see them in their natural habitate so much.

I may put my professional reputation on the line and write a thesis on it.

K-9 · 30-05-2009 01:20AM

IIMII wrote: »

Well I do, and I married one. And I'm not alone. Maybe it's just that I see them in their natural habitate so much

I think you are just odd and watch too much David Attenborough.

IIMII · 30-05-2009 01:24AM

K-9 wrote: »

I think you are just odd and watch too much David Attenborough.

Maybe. And they do go on a bit like David Attenborough

riptide · 10-06-2009 12:34AM

like clockwork! wrote: »

...during the famine, impact on how you feel toward the entire English people at present?

No. Not at all. But, what annoys me sometimes that there is/was a large amount of rumours and BS surrounding the famine.
I think there was a great shame etc on behalf of the people that the famine actually happened. And because of this many Irish are fed and keep feeding themselves BS from one generation to another. I remember hearing in school that we had Indian rice sent over and that we were just too picky and decided it would be best to starve instead. Honestly!
Since then I've made a thorough study and I'd like to think its a balanced and fair view. It might be harsh on some of the eyes here, but I think some members of the British Establishment put their own financial interests above the existence of the Irish. And some members further considered it a blessing from God. However, notable acts of charity by some of the people in control should never be forgotten.

PS: The Indian rice was sent over but was completely inedible and had to be processed.... lest you get very sick and die from it.

mickydoomsux · 10-06-2009 06:35AM

In answer to the original question, no it doesn't bother me. I just don't care.

conchubhar1 · 10-06-2009 08:53AM

original question - not at all that would be silly

its fascinating period to study in history tho

getz · 10-06-2009 09:22AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

Nothing against the average Brit, but when you see members of their establishment celebrating battles from 1812 and then pretending the 1840s was a long time ago and wasn't their fault makes me sick. Ireland was a net exporter of food during the famine. It was genocide.

There should be an apology from the British state, but it's no more the fault of the average Brit than I'm to blame for all the shyte that happened to people in the care of religious paedos and sickos in Ireland.

the people who exported food from ireland ,were landowners english and irish,they did it because of profit ,rightly or wrongly, if they had given it away they themselves would have been bankrupt, like many of the irish landowners ,-it wasent just ireland that had a pototo famine all of europe and the usa had the same blight problem, in scotland alone over 1.5 million people left, ireland was hit far worse because of large families,and the then british goverments ,free trading policy,remember the working classes all over had no say,many people were massacred just for having a meeting in manchester.just for wanting to support parliamentary reform[over 500 men women and babies were killed or wounded, it wasent right but as thing went the irish people ended up suffering the most,and some who went to canada and the USA still died of starvation.

getz · 10-06-2009 09:26AM

riptide wrote: »

No. Not at all. But, what annoys me sometimes that there is/was a large amount of rumours and BS surrounding the famine.
I think there was a great shame etc on behalf of the people that the famine actually happened. And because of this many Irish are fed and keep feeding themselves BS from one generation to another. I remember hearing in school that we had Indian rice sent over and that we were just too picky and decided it would be best to starve instead. Honestly!
Since then I've made a thorough study and I'd like to think its a balanced and fair view. It might be harsh on some of the eyes here, but I think some members of the British Establishment put their own financial interests above the existence of the Irish. And some members further considered it a blessing from God. However, notable acts of charity by some of the people in control should never be forgotten.

PS: The Indian rice was sent over but was completely inedible and had to be processed.... lest you get very sick and die from it.

the one area that history neglects to mention is the huge amount of money and help raised by the quakers to feed the starving

mike65 · 10-06-2009 09:50AM

Oats?

getz · 10-06-2009 09:56AM

mike65 wrote: »

Oats?

good one

fuse · 10-06-2009 10:19AM

lisbon_lions wrote: »

They really are just like us, they like ACDC, having bbq's, drinking beer, watching footie and pulling.

Is that not a perfect description of an Aussie?!

Does the fact that the English allowed the average Irishman to perish....

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