'Libertas call to close borders sparks race row'

0ubliette · 15-05-2009 02:05PM

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Immigration didnt cause a recession.
Rich ***** like ganley did.
And now money's tight and the reactionary armchair politicians want us to f*** out the foreigner and go all hard right on the country and find a non-native minority to demonise.
Well I'm not buying the reactionary crap.
Ganley has no policies. Look at the representatives of his party around Europe. Look at their backers.
There is no merit in what this guy says because he has not a single clue about how to acheive it. It's like the KKK putting forward a sound theory about the recession that conveniently involves killing black people.
I'm not saying its racist. Im simply saying its nonsense.

Wow, did you even read the article?
I guess i missed the part where he said lets throw out johnny foreigner. Probably because its not in there.
He was suggesting temporarily closing shop til the storm of the recession is weathered. Nowhere did he say anything about kicking anyone out, but i guess your point wouldnt seem as valid unless you added that little bit yourself

Disease Ridden · 15-05-2009 02:10PM

0ubliette wrote: »

Seriously, you can all cry 'RACISM!' and then throw in a few south park 'day turk are jerbs' quotes all you like but it doesnt change the fact that the man has a valid point. It isnt being racist to say that in a small country with limited resources that it would be a wise decision to limit the influx of foreign nationals seeking work in the face of a global recession.
Australia did it, Canada did it, i dont see anyone calling their leaders racists. The economy is ****, jobs are few and far between, only a complete simpelton would think its a good idea to leave borders wide open to all and sundry to come in and look for work.

Exactly. People need to cop themselves on. The times of turning a blind eye to the rampantly high levels of immigration into this country are over.

Gazza22 · 15-05-2009 02:12PM

Immigration has got way out of hand in this country. I would be in favour of restrictions, in particular adapting the Australian model.

dr.bollocko · 15-05-2009 02:20PM

0ubliette wrote: »

Wow, did you even read the article?
I guess i missed the part where he said lets throw out johnny foreigner. Probably because its not in there.
He was suggesting temporarily closing shop til the storm of the recession is weathered. Nowhere did he say anything about kicking anyone out, but i guess your point wouldnt seem as valid unless you added that little bit yourself

temporarily closing shop?!
Give us a ****ing break.
I'm done with this.

Morlar · 15-05-2009 02:22PM

book smarts wrote: »

They need 2 years paid PRSI for benefit don't they?

The HSE can and will make payments including rent assistance and the equivalent of jobseekers allowance even where candidates do not make the official requirements.

Disease Ridden · 15-05-2009 02:24PM

I just think that the number of economic units of labour in this country is already far too high for number of jobs available. OF COURSE there should be a temporary ban on further immigration into this country until our economic situation improves massively.

If I wanted to go to Canada, Australia or somewhere to look for work and they told me that they were now operating a citizens-first policy, I'd accept it straight away. Am I missing something or is it actually that crazy to close up the borders when we really dont need the added pressure of more jobseekers!?!

Holsten · 15-05-2009 02:33PM

They're right, immigration does need to be haulted.

0ubliette · 15-05-2009 02:33PM

dr.bollocko wrote: »

temporarily closing shop?!
Give us a ****ing break.
I'm done with this.

Excellent counter argument.

Two thumbs up, would read again

dr.bollocko · 15-05-2009 02:46PM

0ubliette wrote: »

Excellent counter argument.

Two thumbs up, would read again

There is no merit in me continuing to argue with someone who thinks that Libertas has anything worthwhile or beneficial to give to this or any other country. If i sit here and argue the toss with you I will simply end up banned from the very forum I moderate.
I totally disagree with them and their dumbass reactionary barndoor B.S. so I shall not be locking horns any further.

Mark my words.
They are cretins.

herya · 15-05-2009 02:52PM

snubbleste wrote: »

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Topics/PPSN/Pages/ppsn_all_month09.aspx

What surprised me in these stats are really big numbers coming from USA, Canada, Australia, also Brasil, China and India, New Zealand, Nigeria and Pakistan, Philippines, Korea, Russia, South Africa (leaving out EU countries for now with the usual suspects). Are these the countries you'd like to see immigration from restricted?

Morlar · 15-05-2009 02:56PM

dr.bollocko wrote: »

There is no merit in me continuing to argue with someone who thinks that ...............

Mark my words.
They are cretins.

You are as entitled to your opinion as anyone else.

You taking the approach of 'this discussion is beneath me - trust me they are cretins' is one that likewise people are entitled to not be convinced by.

Ireland was one of only 3 countries in the EU to open their immigration door to accession states.

I do not think it is unreasonable in this economic meltdown that we are in that this is an issue that a political party should address.

I think the shocking and 'cretinistic' aspect of this is that NONE of our mainstream established political parties have broached this subject in any kind of a meaningful manner.

TheBlock · 15-05-2009 02:59PM

A couple of things on this.

How many of the 29000 new PRSI numbers since Jan are from immigrants from the assecion countries?

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Topics/PPSN/Pages/ppsn_all_month09.aspx

Just looked at a link provided earlier seems that of the 29000 a total of 9974 are from the 10 states. The majority being from Poland 5771.

What type of Jobs are the immigrants for the accession countries doing?

How many Irish people actually want these jobs?

This type of populist politics is bull****. People are being let go from their jobs and the politicions play slight of hand and blame it on the low paid immigrant workers and we lap it up.

SWL · 15-05-2009 03:02PM

herya wrote: »

What surprised me in these stats are really big numbers coming from USA, Canada, Australia, also Brasil, China and India, New Zealand, Nigeria and Pakistan, Philippines, Korea, Russia, South Africa (leaving out EU countries for now with the usual suspects). Are these the countries you'd like to see immigration from restricted?

Most of those require visa to enter, so it is possible to control the numbers, with accession countries as we have seen over the years is that is impossible to predict the numbers who will come here.

The original estimates for 40 - 60k workers entering Ireland was way out numbers given to the people before Lisbon II by the government and the Trade Unions

_blank_ · 15-05-2009 03:03PM

herya wrote: »

What surprised me in these stats are really big numbers coming from USA, Canada, Australia, also Brasil, China and India, New Zealand, Nigeria and Pakistan, Philippines, Korea, Russia, South Africa (leaving out EU countries for now with the usual suspects). Are these the countries you'd like to see immigration from restricted?

Immigration is already restricted from these places by our evil racist government.

ShooterSF · 15-05-2009 03:08PM

I assume the people rubbishing this because it was suggested by Libertas rather than discussing the issue at hand are not the same people who condemned those for voting against Lisbon to stick it to the government. Surely.

*Awaits aeroplane joke*

stakey · 15-05-2009 03:08PM

What a reactionary load of bollocks, tell you what, if we close our borders shall we take back half of the D4 lay abouts drinking up and down the coasts of Australia at the moment?

Shall we take back in the illegals living in the US at the moment?

Shall we take back any Irish person living abroad?

I'll tell you what, if we had to take back even a percentage of those wasters, this place would be even more trouble than it is at the moment as they'd all go directly on the doll queue.

We opened up our borders to migrant workers because the doors were open elsewhere for our own diaspora.

These people fill the gap in jobs that seem beneath most Irish people or because we don't have the numbers to work here. Our health system has a huge number of migrant works working within it, why? Because we don't have the people to do it here.

Our building trade that has so royally ****ed us didn't even have enough Irish people to work within it, hence the huge number of eastern european workers, again, here to fill a void. A sizeable number of whom have either invested in Ireland by buying property and setting up communities within our cities and towns. The rest are just taking their trade elsewhere or back to their home countries. Welcome to globalised labour folks.

As a small economy that's based on a model of exporting it's educated workforce to the rest of the world (due entirely to how badly this place is run) we now rely on migrant workers coming to this country to fill gaps in the labour force.

As the hard times begin to bite even more you can bet that Irish people will start hitting the shores of far off places in their thousands pretty soon, and when your buses stop running and health system breaks down, you'll want those migrant workers back!

_blank_ · 15-05-2009 03:13PM

stakey wrote: »

What a reactionary load of bollocks

You have described the rest of your post to an absolute "T"

I really wish people would take the time to actually take on board what is being proposed, rather than spout liberal-leftist bullshít.

Yes, the Irish illegals in the US SHOULD be deported.

But, Irish people working legally in countries with RESTRICTED IMMIGRATION like the US, Australia et al are there with the blessing of the governments of those places.

All that is being proposed here, by the Libertas man, is that Ireland rows in with the immigration policies of the VAST majority of the other EU Countries.

That is all.

Dr. Bollocko, why are you refusing to acknowledge even this part of it?

Is it because it has come from Libertas?

dr.bollocko · 15-05-2009 03:14PM

Des wrote: »

Immigration is already restricted from these places by our evil racist government.

It's a barndoor situation.

There are no jobs here. That lessens immigration drastically.
If it gets worse we will be emmigrating to look for work as we have done in the past in our millions. However this Ganley chap wants to change that by rejecting foreign input. We have already, with our minimum wage and socialist laws, removed all possibility of returning to a country where primary industry thrives. Those days are long gone.

Furthermore the immigrants are already here. Welcomed by a country in happier economic times whose own population priced themselves out of the lower end jobs market in a society with class based aspirations.
What will Libertas' policy actually involve? How do they plan to about face? Where's the meat in this rabble rousing sandwich of theirs? Seceding from the EU? Do they have any actual plans to back the rhetoric?

thelordofcheese · 15-05-2009 03:15PM

Des wrote: »

You have described the rest of your post to an absolute "T"

I really wish people would take the time to actually take on board what is being proposed, rather than spout liberal-leftist bullshít.

Yes, the Irish illegals in the US SHOULD be deported.

But, Irish people working legally in countries with RESTRICTED IMMIGRATION like the US, Australia et al are there with the blessing of the governments of those places.

All that is being proposed here, by the Libertas man, is that Ireland rows in with the immigration policies of the VAST majority of the other EU Countries.

That is all.

Hey!
Hey, Des!
HEY!

The word Liberal isn't a dirty word, now matter how often you use it as a pejorative.

That is all.

0ubliette · 15-05-2009 03:17PM

dr.bollocko wrote: »

It's a barndoor situation.

There are no jobs here. That lessens immigration drastically.

29,000 PPS numbers were handed out to foreign nationals since January of this year.

Ehhhh.....

_blank_ · 15-05-2009 03:17PM

I withdraw the last two sentences of my last post.

thelordofcheese wrote: »

The word Liberal isn't a dirty word

It is in my book

Tar.Aldarion · 15-05-2009 03:18PM

Temporarily closing up shop aha, **** off to stormfront where they love you.

thelordofcheese · 15-05-2009 03:19PM

Des wrote: »

I withdraw the last two sentences of my last post.

It is in my book

And that's why i don't care much for your opinion.
If you can't be trusted to use a simple word like liberal, why should i put faith in anything else you say?

_blank_ · 15-05-2009 03:19PM

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Temporarily closing up shop aha, **** off to stormfront where they love you.

Do you think the countries who already restrict immigration from these countries are Stormfronters.

Interesting that none of the posters with the Liberal-Left outlook have yet answered this very simple question.

Very interesting indeed.

dr.bollocko · 15-05-2009 03:20PM

0ubliette wrote: »

Ehhhh.....

And?
Watch the numbers fall with or without the magical liberators.

SWL · 15-05-2009 03:20PM

stakey wrote: »

What a reactionary load of bollocks, tell you what, if we close our borders shall we take back half of the D4 lay abouts drinking up and down the coasts of Australia at the moment?

Shall we take back in the illegals living in the US at the moment?

Shall we take back any Irish person living abroad?

I'll tell you what, if we had to take back even a percentage of those wasters, this place would be even more trouble than it is at the moment as they'd all go directly on the doll queue.

We opened up our borders to migrant workers because the doors were open elsewhere for our own diaspora.

These people fill the gap in jobs that seem beneath most Irish people or because we don't have the numbers to work here. Our health system has a huge number of migrant works working within it, why? Because we don't have the people to do it here.

Our building trade that has so royally ****ed us didn't even have enough Irish people to work within it, hence the huge number of eastern european workers, again, here to fill a void.

As a small economy that's based on a model of exporting it's educated workforce to the rest of the world (due entirely to how badly this place is run) we now rely on migrant workers coming to this country to fill gaps in the labour force.

As the hard times begin to bite even more you can bet that Irish people will start hitting the shores of far off places in their thousands pretty soon, and when your buses stop running and health system breaks down, you'll want those migrant workers back!

You don't posses any economic foresight do you?

And you are completely missing the point - the Irish in Australia had to apply for a visa, the Australian authorities decide who arrives and lives in their country, not the other way round.

We opened up the border to prove to the EU how great we were as Europeans while the larger states sat back and had a good laugh at our naive idiotic behaviour.

Our property bubble was slowly meeting demand until we decided to bring in 80k new people every year, they needed a place to live so guess what happened then yes we built speculative housing to meet the demand creating a monster which future generation will pay heavily for, we should have not allowed unrestrictive access.

500,000 Irish plus on the dole and you are telling me no of them will drive a bus, work in hospitals ect. Now that is a load of bollocks

TheBlock · 15-05-2009 03:21PM

0ubliette wrote: »

Ehhhh.....

Any Stats on Emmigartion for the same period???

Only approx 1/3 of the 29,000 were from assecion states.

_blank_ · 15-05-2009 03:21PM

thelordofcheese wrote: »

And that's why i don't care much for your opinion.
If you can't be trusted to use a simple word like liberal, why should i put faith in anything else you say?

I'm using it quite properly.

The outlook IS Liberal, and it IS Leftist.

Why do you have a problem with that.

Just as my outlook is Conservative Right

0ubliette · 15-05-2009 03:28PM

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Temporarily closing up shop aha, **** off to stormfront where they love you.

I know it might be AMAZINGLY DIFFICULT to comprehend for yourself, and i hope this doesnt actually send you into some kind of anaphilactic shock or give you a brain embolism but believe it or not, some people who would be in support of something like this this are....

SHOCK HORROR

not racists! OMG! Case in point see Canada's, U.S.A's, and Australias stance! I gues theyre all hideous racists too are they? **** watch out, better steer clear of Australia unless you wind up in one of their Concentration camps.
Yes you see you can have an opinion on immigration and not be a card carrying member of combat-18, you complete cretin

Tar.Aldarion · 15-05-2009 03:30PM

0ubliette wrote: »

I know it might be AMAZINGLY DIFFICULT to comprehend for yourself, and i hope this doesnt actually send you into some kind of anaphilactic shock or give you a brain embolism but believe it or not, some people who would be in support of something like this this are....

SHOCK HORROR

not racists! OMG! Case in point see Canada's, U.S.A's, and Australias stance! I gues theyre all hideous racists too are they? **** watch out, better steer clear of Australia unless you wind up in one of their Concentration camps.
Yes you see you can have an opinion on immigration and not be a card carrying member of combat-18, you complete cretin

It's ok that you don't understand that I was not calling them racists.

'Libertas call to close borders sparks race row'

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